Please allow dual spec or cap respec costs.

[DaxRendar]

But then again do you hate being dps in groups?

 

if no then you have like 3/3 as a DPS

while only

1/3 as a healer

so still why complain then that respeccs cost money?

 

I'm leveling a Scoundrel Healer. While soloing and in groups I heal. I like it that way. I prefer it that way.

 

I enjoy PvP, but I HATE healing in PvP.

 

Come up with a decent proposal that lets me enjoy playing my character in all aspects of the game.

 

The following are NOT acceptable solutions:

-Suck it up and heal in PvP

-Level another Scoundrel

-Suck it up and pay Cr 1-200,000/day minimum to respec between PvE/PvP

 

I and several others who are in favor of either lowering the Respec Cost or implementing Dual Spec have offered variations and possible compromises. It's time for the "Single Spec Purists" to step up and do the same.

[RamataKahn]

Why do people feel that they should have only positive sides on theire choice.

 

Because there is no reason for negatives in this case.

[Lethality]

Yeah that's a ridiculous idea that will never happen in any mmo.

 

Don't be so confident. It's a solid idea.

 

We aren't just "calling" it tedium, it is. And yeah they aren't going to give you perks for knowing your class, it's not hard to do at all.

 

Then I supposed traveling to the planets is tedium? Why not just click on a map and appear there?

 

How about a bank? It's ridiculous I have to go all the way across a zone to click on an object to access my cargo hold. Everything I own should be accessible at all times, from anywhere. Right?

 

So, if you support these ideas, then at least you're consistent.

 

But if you do not - why not?

[DaxRendar]

Then I supposed traveling to the planets is tedium? Why not just click on a map and appear there?

 

How about a bank? It's ridiculous I have to go all the way across a zone to click on an object to access my cargo hold. Everything I own should be accessible at all times, from anywhere. Right?

 

So, if you support these ideas, then at least you're consistent.

 

But if you do not - why not?

 

Ah Lethality, we dance again

 

Oh Master of the Strawman, please let me know why you are so opposed to a dedicated PvP spec (activates in Warfronts ONLY), when we consider the following:

 

-You immediately/auto-magically Teleport into and out of Warfronts (wonder why they don't make us all hang out in PvP lobbies and zone in at specific locations? )

-Especially at 50, there is PvP-specific Gear with stats ONLY applicable to PvP

-There are a number of Abilities and Talents which affect Players but not Elite/Champion mobs

-Characters 10-49 are auto-magically given a buff up to Level 50 Stats/Ability Ranks upon entering a Warzone

[RamataKahn]

Don't be so confident. It's a solid idea.

 

No it isn't. There is no reason to reward someone for choosing not to do something versatile.

 

 

Then I supposed traveling to the planets is tedium? Why not just click on a map and appear there?

 

How about a bank? It's ridiculous I have to go all the way across a zone to click on an object to access my cargo hold. Everything I own should be accessible at all times, from anywhere. Right?

 

So, if you support these ideas, then at least you're consistent.

 

But if you do not - why not?

 

I'm not even going to bother debating those ridiculous points.

 

Bottom line is that free re-specing would not hurt the game itself or anyone who chooses not do it in any way whatsoever, and that anyone against are so for purely personal and self-centered reasons that will not be considered by BW.

[Sparckus]

Don't be so confident. It's a solid idea.

 

 

Your idea gives a bona fide advantage for time spent, this will become the norm for endgame content, in a few months / years no one who has recently started stands a chance of getting any groups in endgame fps / ops as the extra stats will be mandatory.

 

In addition it gives an advantage in PvP which is not acceptable as it can't be obtained in any other way.

 

Stop being so shortsighted.

[Varghjerta]

Because there is no reason for negatives in this case.

 

in that case why not make a dual Ac aswell?

[Sparckus]

in that case why not make a dual Ac aswell?

 

You cant do that ingame, you can change specs. Stop comparing apples with oranges.

[Varghjerta]

I'm leveling a Scoundrel Healer. While soloing and in groups I heal. I like it that way. I prefer it that way.

 

I enjoy PvP, but I HATE healing in PvP.

 

Come up with a decent proposal that lets me enjoy playing my character in all aspects of the game.

 

The following are NOT acceptable solutions:

-Suck it up and heal in PvP

-Level another Scoundrel

-Suck it up and pay Cr 1-200,000/day minimum to respec between PvE/PvP

 

I and several others who are in favor of either lowering the Respec Cost or implementing Dual Spec have offered variations and possible compromises. It's time for the "Single Spec Purists" to step up and do the same.

 

Actually there have been alot of suggestion from the "anti" dual specc that they could make a PvP specc abilty only useful in instanced PvP but that have gotten shot down because WoW didnt do it that way and that some people think they are entitled doing dps or healing without a cist in PvE

[Deewe]

Hey Dewee - nice to see some of the 'old guard' still around!

 

I think your point about not everyone being a hardcore gamer is a good one - although probably opposite the way you mean.

 

Most casual players that are just here to have fun (i.e. most players) aren't even in these threads debating it. Heck, they may not even be aware they CAN respec their skills yet. Not because they're dumb, but because they're playing the game as much as we're analyzing it.

 

For them, they would never roll an alt of the same class to do a different thing. They would simply play their existing character as a viable option in any situation. They will raid, quest, pvp and whatever else on the same character with the same spec. I did it for years in WoW as a casual player. Most players do the same. But if for some reason on the occasion they DO want to tweak their spec, they can just visit a Skill Mentor and the cost is minimal or non-existent.

 

For the player that wants to do this all the time, it's a small minority. And the cost is designed to deter it. It's a way for the players to really optimize their gameplay, but it is in no way normal behavior. Heck, remember when Blizzard said most players don't even make it to level cap? Those are players just killing time and having fun - these discussions are far away from where they are. And that's the case with TOR, too. They're not here arm-chair designing, they're just playin'.

 

BioWare is definitely divided on the topic, every interview I've ever done where we've asked about this it has been either very tentative or the opposite answer from the time before. So they are very careful in approaching what they do.

 

That's why I like my suggestion in the other tread to reward those who stick with a spec longer, but not take anything away from those that don't (if they implement instant spec changing.)

 

As for subscribed longer - I don't doubt it. I only hope that isn't the primary motivation behind doing it for BioWare, it should be gameplay first. Any time you make things easier and make players do less to achieve more, it's always going to be popular.

Sup

 

You indeed do have a very valid point. Pretty sure most casual gamer are clueless of the "right" template... well at first.

 

Then they start playing more, grouping with "more skilled" players, learn the tricks of the trade and your casual player, while still casual as not playing as many hours as more hardcore players, becomes an initiate.

 

I would say, short term, there's no need to dual specs but in the long term it will help everyone out.

 

Personally I'm certain, due to the current competition and speccing possibilities in others MMO, BioWare don't have the the luxury of the choice. Good of bad, soon or later they will be obliged to add dual specs and I dare even saying AC respecs.

 

Now IMHO allowing dual specs does not makes things easier, maybe even less as you then have more choices, more gear to grind, more mess in your inventory, more skills rotation to manage, more UI layouts to set and get used to.

 

P.S.: would you please parse the link to your other thread as search is disabled?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Deewe

[RamataKahn]

in that case why not make a dual Ac aswell?

 

I wouldn't have a problem with it if they did, wouldn't hurt me or the game at all.

[Varghjerta]

You cant do that ingame, you can change specs. Stop comparing apples with oranges.

 

and you cant switch speccs without cost aswell

But that doesnt keep people from demanding it

Edited January 8, 2012 by Varghjerta

[GarbonzotheDude]

Don't be so confident. It's a solid idea.

 

 

 

Then I supposed traveling to the planets is tedium? Why not just click on a map and appear there?

 

How about a bank? It's ridiculous I have to go all the way across a zone to click on an object to access my cargo hold. Everything I own should be accessible at all times, from anywhere. Right?

 

So, if you support these ideas, then at least you're consistent.

 

But if you do not - why not?

 

No it isn't. Nothing wrong with dual specialization so there is no reason to add unnecessary perks to players that don't want to use it.

 

If you don't want to use the system. Then don't. It is as simple as that. Just because they add it doesn't mean you have to take advantage of it if for some reason you find it deplorable.

[RamataKahn]

Actually there have been alot of suggestion from the "anti" dual specc that they could make a PvP specc abilty only useful in instanced PvP but that have gotten shot down because WoW didnt do it that way and that some people think they are entitled doing dps or healing without a cist in PvE

 

It got shot down because it was an incredibly stupid idea.

[DaxRendar]

in that case why not make a dual Ac aswell?

 

Stop with the hyperbole and strawman arguments, and respond to my previous post - I'm calling you out.

 

Or do you truly believe it is both good game design (or that you are a good person) to force people to either engage in gameplay in ways they despise or not participate in it at all?

 

EDIT: Saw your post on the last page. Fine, keep suggesting or pushing compromise or solutions in your posts. Telling people to "suck it up" or "just DPS" contribute nothing to the conversation.

 

I can only offer anecdotal evidence (and I'm sure someone else with post with the "opposite" experience) but while I have definitely seen Addons become "defacto requirements" and impact everyone's experience in other games with a huge impact on the community, I (personally) have never seen Dual Spec have that impact. I was a Guild Officer and Raid Leader, and I never once required someone to have a Dual Spec or play a Spec they didn't want to. I did ask people if they were willing to switch to another spec if we were missing certain roles, but I've also asked if any were willing to respec, if they were willing to come on an alt, or if they were willing to sit so someone with the needed spec could go.

 

I almost always play a healer, and I do know healers and tanks that were opposed to it, because their "guaranteed" spot in groups wasn't as assured when we could rotate more people in at that role (my Guild believed in rotating attendance/participation so more people could experience the content).

 

I'm sure there are others who were excluded from participating by elitist/clique-y groups who would just switch their specs to cover any role requirements and exclude everyone else, but those same groups usually have no issues with swapping to alts to achieve the same level of elitism.

 

Other than "it ruins my immersion" what are the burning issues that Single Spec supports feel are so important? Sages roll NEED on Double-bladed Lightsabers because the mods inside them are upgrades. People roll NEED on gear for their Companions. So "Increased Loot Drama" really doesn't cut it for me. Hardcore Operations Raid Guilds will still require optimized/focused Specs over Hybrids, so that doesn't cut it.

 

What is the horrible consequence that has caused Single Spec adherents to be so vocal and vehement in their opposition? I'm really trying to understand...

Edited January 8, 2012 by DaxRendar

[uruz]

I might've said it in this thread or another:

 

Dual spec within your AC - sure, no problem. You want to switch up to an Operative Healer for group or tough soloable battles - fine. You want to switch up to a dps operative because you're impatient and need to kill things 0.4901832112 seconds faster or the group needs a dps - fine. However, to keep in align with other Bioware games, I would restrict it so you had to wait unitil a certain amount of time before changing specs.

 

Dual AC's - never, nada, NO. I'd put this right up with not being allowed to switch factions, male/female, body types, etc. You chose to be a sniper and that's what you're stuck with.

[kalexkhan]

No it isn't. Nothing wrong with dual specialization so there is no reason to add unnecessary perks to players that don't want to use it.

 

If you don't want to use the system. Then don't. It is as simple as that. Just because they add it doesn't mean you have to take advantage of it if for some reason you find it deplorable.

 

How about full on class swapping? They should put that in too with a small fee no big deal right?

 

If you don't like it you don't have to use it.

[Radagastimus]

Enjoy the game and reroll a new class/char for another task. It is basic concept of rationality to know that everything has its strong and weak aspects and nothing exept Chuck Norris can perform any kind of duty efficiently.

 

In developer point of wiev this kind of thing will not be added in next year or two if ever since there are at moment bugs and glitches to fix and in the future it may appear as a content update but not likely since this game does not seem to cater for such democracy of players that demand this kind of lazy playstyle.

 

In markewting point of wiev it is not given permission to add before there is such considerable lack of subscribers which promotes need to enroll such updates to get new players to sub to play. Since game is faring well on part of subscribers at moment it will not be added at this point. If any they will wait for couple of month.. 2-3 month maybe before applying demand to development do add such feature.

 

Adding companies involved in this game and people that represent Star Wars brand we can assume how things will eventually cpome out.

 

This is all speculative ofcourse and based on actions of other companies actions and their marketing versus development points of wiev which leads me to such conclusions

[Radagastimus]

No it isn't. Nothing wrong with dual specialization so there is no reason to add unnecessary perks to players that don't want to use it.

 

If you don't want to use the system. Then don't. It is as simple as that. Just because they add it doesn't mean you have to take advantage of it if for some reason you find it deplorable.

 

I dont think it is the feature itself that is opposed here but more like the player type using such features

[KoranHorn]

I might've said it in this thread or another:

 

Dual spec within your AC - sure, no problem. You want to switch up to an Operative Healer for group or tough soloable battles - fine. You want to switch up to a dps operative because you're impatient and need to kill things 0.4901832112 seconds faster or the group needs a dps - fine. However, to keep in align with other Bioware games, I would restrict it so you had to wait unitil a certain amount of time before changing specs.

 

Dual AC's - never, nada, NO. I'd put this right up with not being allowed to switch factions, male/female, body types, etc. You chose to be a sniper and that's what you're stuck with.

 

All of BW's previous games were NOT MMO's. You cant say that this must stay in line with their other games because it is a totally different type. You cant play an mmo strictly as an rpg, it has the massive multiplayer aspect and a much longer life. People will be playing the same character for years.

Edited January 8, 2012 by KoranHorn

[KoranHorn]

I dont think it is the feature itself that is opposed here but more like the player type using such features

 

now that is just ridiculous. So this is not at all about how DS/AC swapping will enhance or damage the game, but how much you dislike the people who enjoy DS/AC swapping?! How childish can you be? Case closed. No reason to cater to YOU PEOPLE. /wink

Edited January 8, 2012 by KoranHorn

[Radagastimus]

All of BW's previous games were NOT MMO's. You cant say that this must stay in line with their other games because it is a totally type. You cant play an mmo strictly as an rpg, it has the massive multiplayer aspect.

 

MMO is not a magic description that moves some companys development or game playing ideals away from their previous product philosophies. Game being MMO only means that it needs a bit more flexibility than single player game but it does not force any company to do anything.

[SOONERFREAK]

Wow dual spec is for casuals? That is just a stupid statement. Dual spec is fine and players should be able to do it because at most it lets you take heal/tank and then a dps spec as no class can do all 3.

[DarthTenor]

Enjoy the game and reroll a new class/char for another task. It is basic concept of rationality to know that everything has its strong and weak aspects and nothing exept Chuck Norris can perform any kind of duty efficiently.

 

 

I'm already planning to play all the AC's. Since the classes already have counterparts that are considered mirrors they still 'feel' different aesthetically. Sure I can plays my sage as the healer and my sorcerer the DPS but I don't want to. I see many groups LFG group healer or DPS many times. I would like to switch to help out these groups that are waiting to do heroics or flashpoints without traveling all the way back to your trainer, re-spec with costly fees than travel all the way back to the group and then all the way back to trainer again, re-spec to the your main spec spending more credits AHHHHHH.

 

Also what about the other tree the shared tree for each class. You can't say the shared tree plays the same for both AC's I don't see it. there was a post by Zoeleer that described 6 different play-styles for the smuggler. Don't remember the link I think it was on Darth haters site.

 

In most cases the "style' of the tree's don't seem to take effect until you put the majority if not all of your skill points in the tree like WOW and I hated that. I didn't feel like a frost mage until all of my points were spent in that tree. Same with the warriors etc.

 

Even in this game I don't feel like healer until well into the skill tree.

 

I might've said it in this thread or another:

 

Dual spec within your AC - sure, no problem. You want to switch up to an Operative Healer for group or tough soloable battles - fine. You want to switch up to a dps operative because you're impatient and need to kill things 0.4901832112 seconds faster or the group needs a dps - fine. However, to keep in align with other Bioware games, I would restrict it so you had to wait unitil a certain amount of time before changing specs.

 

Dual AC's - never, nada, NO. I'd put this right up with not being allowed to switch factions, male/female, body types, etc. You chose to be a sniper and that's what you're stuck with.

 

 

Always wanted the dual spec within the tree. Absolutely no re-spec for Ac's though as the AC play so differently from another.

Edited January 8, 2012 by DarthTenor

[GarbonzotheDude]

How about full on class swapping? They should put that in too with a small fee no big deal right?

 

If you don't like it you don't have to use it.

 

Yeah...so this doesn't even make sense. But feel free to keep comparing apples to oranges.

 

The more I read those against it the more I realize either you people have never played mmos before or simply do not understand the concept of dual specialization.

 

It isn't like this is some profound or unique concept being asked for here folks. Can see plenty of examples of it in other mmos if you want to read up on it or see how it doesn't effect anything gameplay wise outside of allowing people to create two templates for them to use for two different styles of play.

 

Mostly used for PvP and PvE.