Spynnal Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I fully expect some incoherent babbling about how he'd cancel his account... minus the cancelling thing. Well, after he called everyone who disagreed with him a mailbox humper, I'm done trying to have a rational conversation. I posted several paragraphs on why it can be helpful for a small group of friends, but he conveniently skipped over that as it doesn't fit his steroetype of all who are pro dual spec. Whatever. At the end of the day, you can swap roles over and over and over again daily. It's just a nuisance. Even if they don't implement an easy way to do it, swapping can, has, and will continue to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 PVP. ...and as to your idea of a PVP spec that triggers on entering a WZ...why? What's the fear of general Dual speccing? What would Dual Spec do to make your gameplay worse if you never want to use it? What would allowing me to change my Advanced Class do to you if you never used it? What would allowing me to insta create level 50s do to you if you if you never used it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Most of us are paying customers that wish to play a game on an even playing ground. Dual speccing puts people on an uneven playing ground, especially in PvP. Those that don't understand how dual specs are unfair in PvP are either ignorant or need an unfair advantage to succeed. I must be ignorant... as I fail to see how giving something to everyone makes it unfair to anyone. I'd also point out that you are currently paying for a game that gives this "unfair advantage"... since respeccing is already allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Most of us are paying customers that wish to play a game on an even playing ground. Dual speccing puts people on an uneven playing ground, especially in PvP. Those that don't understand how dual specs are unfair in PvP are either ignorant or need an unfair advantage to succeed. How is it an unfair advantage if everyone has access to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 What would allowing me to change my Advanced Class do to you if you never used it? What would allowing me to insta create level 50s do to you if you if you never used it? What would a troll do when confronted with logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparckus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Most of us are paying customers that wish to play a game on an even playing ground. Dual speccing puts people on an uneven playing ground, especially in PvP. Those that don't understand how dual specs are unfair in PvP are either ignorant or need an unfair advantage to succeed. Please, spell it out to me. How can having a feature that allows you to switch from an entirely PvE focused build that you would use for FPs and ops, a tank for example to a PvP centric build unfair in PvP? Are you saying staying with a gimped build for PvP is fair for that player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spynnal Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I would much rather have a straight tank that knows his role than another who flip flops his role and never truly gets a ideal grasp on their main role. People can swap roles currently. Just not swiftly, which is the only change anyone asked for. Their is no role immobility. That tank you mentioned could have been a dps spec five minutes before you ran into him. As I said before, this game has dual spec. Go to a trainer, and swap, swap, swap away. Their is nothing stopping anyone. Which means implementing dual spec is nothing more than a time saving technique, because what you are against already exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 As I said before, this game has dual spec. Go to a trainer, and swap, swap, swap away. Their is nothing stopping anyone. Which means implementing dual spec is nothing more than a time saving technique, because what you are against already exists. The game does not have dual spec currently. Limited re-spec ability is not dual spec. If they were the same thing these threads would be here and you wouldn't be advocating so hard for dual spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) The game does not have dual spec currently. Limited re-spec ability is not dual spec. If they were the same thing these threads would be here and you wouldn't be advocating so hard for dual spec. The point is that the only thing you're currently advocating for is tedium. The respec system isn't limited in any way but money. The basics of the system is in place, its just got some built in tedium. Edited January 5, 2012 by Sendrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The game does not have dual spec currently. Limited re-spec ability is not dual spec. If they were the same thing these threads would be here and you wouldn't be advocating so hard for dual spec. If trolls didn't exist, you wouldn't be here at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salamanderx Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Dual spec is silly. If you're not supposed to pick a spec then why put speccing in the game? Roll another character, sillies. We have hordes of 50's in the game already and its only a couple weeks old. You wont break a nail, I promise. Edited January 5, 2012 by salamanderx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Dual spec is silly. If you're not supposed to pick a spec then why put speccing in the game? Roll another character, sillies. We have hordes of 50's in the game already and its only a couple weeks old. Why have a respec NPC in that case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salamanderx Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why have a respec NPC in that case? People make mistakes, it lets em fix it. Obvious to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spynnal Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The game does not have dual spec currently. Limited re-spec ability is not dual spec. If they were the same thing these threads would be here and you wouldn't be advocating so hard for dual spec. My point was in reference to the quote I included, and you did not. He celebrated wanting a tank to be a tank, that knows tanking. My retort, which remains true, was that tank could have been a dps up until 5 minutes before you met him. The game allows it. And he could be dps again next week when you see him again. So the quote I included seemed rather invalid to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BizzyBonez Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Actually.. Dual Spec is so wrong.... Feels like cheating to me. Or more like spoiling people who cant choose and want everything easy. If you want to tank... roll a tank. If you want to healer ... roll a healer. etc.. Whats wrong with creating 3 chars?... And if you dont want to roll 3 chars... then you have to pay for the privilege of not having to level up 2-3 chars. Sounds normal to me. Being able to create 1 char that can fill 3 rolls on the fly is not only "to easy" ... its also just plain unrealistic (yes.. i said it.. unrealistic in a fantasy game!!) But hey.. it'll probably be implemented cause there are more people wanting easy-play then there are people that want a challenge For dual speccing to NOT be implemented would be one of the biggest mistakes this game can make. There are many reason for dual specs for even PURE dps classes such as marauder. PVE id rather play anni spec. However PVP rage all day. Its stupid to expect me to respec all the time. Even old games like City Of Heroes have dual specs. But hey.. it'll probably be implemented cause there are more people wanting easy-play then there are people that want a challenge This hardly makes sense. Your saying leveling more the one character is a challenge? Your a joke. Some people dont have time to waste leveling 3-5 characters. I personally rather level ONE character and play it the best i can in PVE and PVP. Edited January 5, 2012 by BizzyBonez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 People make mistakes, it lets em fix it. Obvious to me... So then why not a hard cap to the amount of respecs per day/week/period of time? If its just for fixing mistakes, surely you don't need an unlimited amount of them right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndiusTheGreat Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I think that by majority the argument can be divided down these lines. People who don't want dual specs are entirely focused on the endgame. This is why they keep making arguments like "Make alts!" These are likely the people who upon release powerleveled straight to 50 so they could experience the endgame content as fast as possible. People who do want dual specs are more diverse but the majority of people who are actually stopping to savor the many great things Bioware has put for us to do between level 1 and 50 are mostly in favor of dual specs. That's because they realize that Bioware has filled this game with daily heroics and a flashpoint for people of prettymuch every level range but because of the lack of dual specs it takes awhile to build groups and a lot of people end up rolling with high level characters as fillers in their party just to experience the flashpoint, but doing so kills the a lot of the fun of the flashpoint. Rolling more alts simply is not an answer to this because very few people keep all their alts around the same level. Because of this, people are not using the flashpoints that Bioware put a lot of effort into as much as they would like to. I know I love flashpoints but if I roll as a tank I seem to find other tanks and 2 tanks in a party are useless, but then if I roll as something other than a tank we are always missing a tank. It takes so long to put groups together that I go do other content simply because I want to spend my time in-game actually playing the game. Dual speccing would entirely solve this problem. Dual speccing is not prohibitive to role-play if you have any imagination (RPing that you switch to different sets of equipment or meditate on different aspects when you switch your specs like I spelled out in much greater detail earlier) and is prettymuch NEEDED if the content 1-50 is to be enjoyed the way it was meant to be. Edited January 5, 2012 by AndiusTheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salamanderx Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 So then why not a hard cap to the amount of respecs per day/week/period of time? If its just for fixing mistakes, surely you don't need an unlimited amount of them right? It does cost credits so unless you have unlimited credits you dont have an unlimited amount of them. Sorry bud, you're a champ for not getting the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It does cost credits so unless you have unlimited credits you dont have an unlimited amount of them. Sorry bud, you're a champ for not getting the point. Follow along. There's no limit to how many credits you can make and spend (that I'm aware of). Therefore, if the only limit is monetary, there's no real limit. If it was only for mistakes, there would be a hard limit (i.e. 3 respecs per week and that's it, you can't buy more than that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndiusTheGreat Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Follow along. There's no limit to how many credits you can make and spend (that I'm aware of). Therefore, if the only limit is monetary, there's no real limit. If it was only for mistakes, there would be a hard limit (i.e. 3 respecs per week and that's it, you can't buy more than that). There is a huge limit unless you are level 50 and have more money then you know what to do with. For people trying to do flashpoints, where dual speccing is most needed you are very limited because most of the people in that range can't afford to spend 100k to change their spec even once. So we only respec once a week. (Or not at all since once a week is mostly useless for meeting the needs of the party you want to help.) Edited January 5, 2012 by AndiusTheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zootzoot Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Most of us are paying customers that wish to play a game on an even playing ground. Dual speccing puts people on an uneven playing ground, especially in PvP. Those that don't understand how dual specs are unfair in PvP are either ignorant or need an unfair advantage to succeed. LOL so tell us about how Dual Spec creates an uneven playing ground. I have a PVE spec and a PVP spec. I don't think you even understand what we're asking for. I think you imagine people swapping between Heals and DPS on the fly during a WZ. At least I hope that's what you think because I can;t imagine anything else. Please don't post if you have no concept of the discussion. I'd say you're the one who's ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemosobe Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 There is no need for Bioware to implement a dual spec. Simply because you want to level with a DPS tree but tank/heal in a flashpoint/heroic/etc. does not mean Bioware should give you dual spec. It means you should stop being lazy and level in your tank/healer spec. I have been doing it since level 10 and have zero problems leveling (am level 35 now). There is no reason to have a dual spec because you want to get through content faster as well as get into groups faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The point is that the only thing you're currently advocating for is tedium. The respec system isn't limited in any way but money. The basics of the system is in place, its just got some built in tedium. The point your making (as well as others) is that if you allow something in a limited fashion then you must then allow it in an unlimited fashion. It's an inane argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salamanderx Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think that by majority the argument can be divided down these lines. People who don't want dual specs are entirely focused on the endgame. This is why they keep making arguments like "Make alts!" These are likely the people who upon release powerleveled straight to 50 so they could experience the endgame content as fast as possible. People who do want dual specs are more diverse but the majority of people who are actually stopping to savor the many great things Bioware has put for us to do between level 1 and 50 are mostly in favor of dual specs. That's because they realize that Bioware has filled this game with daily heroics and a flashpoint for people of prettymuch every level range but because of the lack of dual specs it takes awhile to build groups and a lot of people end up rolling with high level characters as fillers in their party just to experience the flashpoint, but doing so kills the a lot of the fun of the flashpoint. Rolling more alts simply is not an answer to this because very few people keep all their alts around the same level. Because of this, people are not using the flashpoints that Bioware put a lot of effort into as much as they would like to. I know I love flashpoints but if I roll as a tank I seem to find other tanks and 2 tanks in a party are useless, but then if I roll as something other than a tank we are always missing a tank. It takes so long to put groups together that I go do other content simply because I want to spend my time in-game actually playing the game. Dual speccing would entirely solve this problem. Dual speccing is not prohibitive to role-play if you have any imagination (RPing that you switch to different sets of equipment or meditate on different aspects when you switch your specs like I spelled out in much greater detail earlier) and is prettymuch NEEDED if the content 1-50 is to be enjoyed the way it was meant to be. Nope, I'm not racing to endgame, your understanding of the situation is very lacking. Why is it so hard to understand that dual spec is a complete ba$stardization of the RPG system? Thats why it is unliked, and you'll need to start there before anything else. Dual spec would need A LOT of justification to be accepted by people, outside of the wow crowd that are calling for it primarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthGrimmlokk Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Actually.. Dual Spec is so wrong.... Feels like cheating to me. Or more like spoiling people who cant choose and want everything easy. If you want to tank... roll a tank. If you want to healer ... roll a healer. etc.. Whats wrong with creating 3 chars?... And if you dont want to roll 3 chars... then you have to pay for the privilege of not having to level up 2-3 chars. Sounds normal to me. Welcome to 1999...too bad it's 2012 now. Times change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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