Please allow dual spec or cap respec costs.

[twotimingpete]

I strongly disagree with dual specs or cheaper respecs. What you seem to be asking for is to just have every ability. Why have specs at all if you don't have to make a choice?

 

in fact, why have different classes? It's stupid to have to play multiple characters to get all skills. Let's just have one class, the OMNIPWN, that has every skill from every character.

[Jambert]

Let me be blunt. You're not trying to exploit your CHARACTER, you're exploiting the CLASS SYSTEM as if it were an in-game combat mechanic. At character creation, you pick a class based off of the role you want to play and then eventually select an AC to specialize that role further.

 

Flipping around at will for ease of use renders the class system moot. "I'm DPS, but now I'm TANKY and now I'm something else" fundamentally undercuts the entire REASON for choosing class/AC at all. We might as well just lump all the skills for each class/AC combination together into a single pudgy lump of a class choice and say to hell with it for all the rationale putting forth a choice and then rendering it moot at will makes.

 

Did you even read or understand my post at all, from fight to fight a tank could have more viable spec depending on the boss mechanics. And by exploiting the class system, do you mean allowing players to enjoy multiple facets of the game during their day-to-day is the wrong thing to do?

 

Lol, I can put my money on the fact that the people who are against dual-spec, are all DPS speced.

 

Because its same for them. DPS quests, DPS flashpoints, DPS pvp. And they feel its "cheating" for tank to be both tanks and DPS.

 

I too think this pretty much sums up a lot of the negative posts against this here.

[Amiracle]

I find it funny that this whole post is about it took almost 3 minutes to do a group pull when before it took only 2.

 

Not that the pull couldn't be done, it just wasn't done fast enough according to the OP.

[Lethality]

Title says it all. At level 42 if i were to respec it would cost me over 100k credits. Thats seems outrageous to me (at least at this level).

 

I LOVE to tank for groups, but as most people have noticed tanks actually do poor damage in this game when compared to others.When soloing, I know that to compensate for this you bring a dps companion. However while encountering say a double silver-double reg pull, you will most likely be popping CDs just to survive because you still take a fair amount of damage even when your in full defense gear. To counter this you would bring a healer companion... but now your taking almost 3 minutes for the same pull...

 

The only logical fix to this situation if to either cap the cost of respeccing or allow players to indulge in multiple specs.

 

I think you're missing the design intent of a class-based RPG. Your character's role and abilities shouldn't be able to be changed out like old sheets.

 

You can already re-spec on a whim, yo just have to travel to a skill mentor. And the cost is there to make sure people don't abuse the system.

 

The only logical fix to this is to either play the game as intended/designed, or make sure you have the credits to play how YOU specifically want to.

[RachelAnne]

Did you even read or understand my post at all, from fight to fight a tank could have more viable spec depending on the boss mechanics. And by exploiting the class system, do you mean allowing players to enjoy multiple facets of the game during their day-to-day is the wrong thing to do?

 

 

 

I too think this pretty much sums up a lot of the negative posts against this here.

 

Thats silly to think like that.

 

I always play a tank or healer and I do not want a dual spec system. There is no point playing an RPG based game, if you can be whatever you want all the time.

 

People that demand such a dual spec system, should go play CS, BF 3 or some other shooter. At an RPG your choices should matter!

 

I was tanking fine at wow with 1 spec, only changed stuff after content patches and I did raid professionel. So please dont tell us fairytales of tanks, that must respec for every boss.

[Abubu]

Up for dual spec. If a tank is needed, I could just switch to fill the slot. Or if I want to go dps for pvp or solo questing, I can switch back.

 

For the people that are against a dual spec because it would trivialise the game. YOU can reroll like a smarta** said before.

I don't have a lot of play time, So I won't level up 2 time the SAME class because I want the option to heal or dps.

[twotimingpete]

Up for dual spec. If a tank is needed, I could just switch to fill the slot. Or if I want to go dps for pvp or solo questing, I can switch back.

 

For the people that are against a dual spec because it would trivialise the game. YOU can reroll like a smarta** said before.

I don't have a lot of play time, So I won't level up 2 time the SAME class because I want the option to heal or dps.

 

this post just strikes me as idiotic. one of the core pillars of this type of game is choosing a character and building it and making choices.

[Jambert]

Thats silly to think like that.

 

I always play a tank or healer and I do not want a dual spec system. There is no point playing an RPG based game, if you can be whatever you want all the time.

 

People that demand such a dual spec system, should go play CS, BF 3 or some other shooter. At an RPG your choices should matter!

 

I was tanking fine at wow with 1 spec, only changed stuff after content patches and I did raid professionel. So please dont tell us fairytales of tanks, that must respec for every boss.

 

I was being simplistic in my example, I appreciate it's an RPG, but by your comment it's clear you didn't raid "professional".

 

I hate to reference WoW, but perfect example, T11, Bastion, V&T HM, rogues NEEDED a low DPS high survivability spec to control the Twilight Zone correctly in the first few months of the encounters before the nerf-hammer came, it was a staple for that fight.

 

In SW that would translate to me either sticking with that lower DPS spec for the duration of the raid or travelling back and doing the respec twice, and this is one example.

 

Having two choices is not killing it as an RPG, by all means keep the respec cost high, but asking for two choices of play-style depending on different scenarios still gives enough weight to carefully choosing 2 specs, while not getting out of hand in terms of making it a free and easy choice.

[Lethality]

Up for dual spec. If a tank is needed, I could just switch to fill the slot. Or if I want to go dps for pvp or solo questing, I can switch back.

 

For the people that are against a dual spec because it would trivialise the game. YOU can reroll like a smarta** said before.

I don't have a lot of play time, So I won't level up 2 time the SAME class because I want the option to heal or dps.

 

You can already change your spec, there's no problem.

 

What people are asking here is a completely unnecessary convenience change that will water down the value of classes and roles in the game.

[Amiracle]

They could play Rift. There you can be pretty much any role at any time.

 

But as soon as they allowed combat logs and dps meters all you ended up with is the FoTM builds followed by nerfs followed by another FoTM followed by nerfs......

[Lethality]

I hate to reference WoW, but perfect example, T11, Bastion, V&T HM, rogues NEEDED a low DPS high survivability spec to control the Twilight Zone correctly in the first few months of the encounters before the nerf-hammer came, it was a staple for that fight.

 

In SW that would translate to me either sticking with that lower DPS spec for the duration of the raid or travelling back and doing the respec twice, and this is one example.

 

But that's an example of terrible game design that was fostered by the fact that they included a dual-spec feature! If they never did that, they could never design encounters that have ridiculous requirements like that, so that 1 player can't have the same spec from one second to the next. Ridiculous.

 

Blizzard has set the bar for PvE encounter design for years to come, but some of their design decisions (like dual-spec) work to hinder it, not help it.

[Nagasurayami]

Bearing in mind it took wow almost 6 years to implement dual spec...

[Jambert]

But that's an example of terrible game design that was fostered by the fact that they included a dual-spec feature! If they never did that, they could never design encounters that have ridiculous requirements like that, so that 1 player can't have the same spec from one second to the next. Ridiculous.

 

Blizzard has set the bar for PvE encounter design for years to come, but some of their design decisions (like dual-spec) work to hinder it, not help it.

 

I'm not sure how giving people more choice and avenues of play-style hinders gameplay in any way - it allows people to delve into more areas of the game more often. You can still only play one spec at any one time.

 

Further to this, I'm not sure how giving a player something different to do other than the usual stand and attack target x for 10 minutes is a bad thing either, granted this is my opinion, but variety is the spice of life

Edited January 5, 2012 by Jambert

[Lethality]

I'm not sure how giving people more choice and avenues of play-style hinders gameplay in any way - it allows people to delve into more areas of the game more often.

 

It simply goes against the core tenet of an RPG - a ROLE you play with choices you make to become that character!

 

Why stop at dual spec, and not just make the talent tree wide open, so you can reconfigure freely?

 

In all honesty, if you really agree with your position, then there's no reason not to agree with this too. I'd love to hear the reasoning, why somehow "unlimited" specs is bad, when it would clearly give players the maximum possible amount of choice.

[Truga]

I'm not sure how giving people more choice and avenues of play-style hinders gameplay in any way - it allows people to delve into more areas of the game more often. You can still only play one spec at any one time.

 

It doesn't give people any more choice, it just forces them to play multiple specs, because content will then be balanced with multiple specs in mind.

 

In my opinion, dungeons shouldn't let people in our out once they're started, and they shouldn't let people respec. The composition you bring into your dungeon is the composition you'll finish it with.

 

If this is true, I really don't mind respecs, because I won't be forced to do them.

[Katanabladez]

All these 'single spec, dual spec' bullcrap is outdated MMO mechanics. Look at the early Asheron's Call. Look at Skyrim.

 

It's called freedom, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to do anything you want with one char. Just like in real life, you 'level up' all your skills, while slowly starting forget older, unused skills.

 

Remove all specs in general, just enable all trees to everyone, give them 150 levels, so there are enough points to get everything.

 

End.

[Jambert]

In all honesty, if you really agree with your position, then there's no reason not to agree with this too. I'd love to hear the reasoning, why somehow "unlimited" specs is bad, when it would clearly give players the maximum possible amount of choice.

 

I like to PvP and PvE, dual spec would allow me to do this competitively (since the two specs I use are quite different), yes I could stick to my cookie cutter PvE tank spec for PvP, but I won't be as useful to my team, between PvE and PvP the roles are the same essentially, I'm a tank / supporter, but naturally some talents are more suited to PvP and vice versa.

 

Also, my opinion is no more or less valid than your own, and I've given plenty of reasoning behind my own point of view. You seem to be hung up on the word "Role" in a generic game term, and as I said above, I do play a role, a tank, but different specs suit PvP and PvE and I like to experience both.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Jambert

[Lethality]

I like to PvP and PvE, dual spec would allow me to do this competitively (since the two specs I use are quite different), yes I could stick to my cookie cutter PvE tank spec for PvP, but I won't be as useful to my team, between PvE and PvP the roles are the same essentially, I'm a tank / supporter, but naturally some talents are more suited to PvP and vice versa.

 

But you didn't answer the question.

 

Are you against "free-specing" where you simply open the talent tree at any time, and assign points at will?

 

If you are against it, why?

[PlagaNerezza]

Title says it all. At level 42 if i were to respec it would cost me over 100k credits. Thats seems outrageous to me (at least at this level).

 

I LOVE to tank for groups, but as most people have noticed tanks actually do poor damage in this game when compared to others.When soloing, I know that to compensate for this you bring a dps companion. However while encountering say a double silver-double reg pull, you will most likely be popping CDs just to survive because you still take a fair amount of damage even when your in full defense gear. To counter this you would bring a healer companion... but now your taking almost 3 minutes for the same pull...

 

If I wanted to mission faster I could go a dps spec and get things done, yet my group utility would be confined to that of a dps. Which is something that I do not care for.

 

That puts me in a predicament where I have to stay tank and watch everyone out level me just because they can do things twice as fast.

 

Another situation would be someone who plays pve utility (healer/tank) and likes to pvp as well. Constant respecs, or one of those aspects is going to suffer.

 

The only logical fix to this situation if to either cap the cost of respeccing or allow players to indulge in multiple specs.

 

Get a friend. 99% of this game if played with someone else is rotfl easy.

[Jambert]

But you didn't answer the question.

 

Are you against "free-specing" where you simply open the talent tree at any time, and assign points at will?

 

If you are against it, why?

 

I never said respeccing should be free, just allowing a dual spec would give players more choice, by all means keep the respec cost the same and the way the talent tree works at the moment, I just find it funny that people think you should be crippling your credits every few hours because instead of having a dual spec you have to respec if you fancy doing some PvP for a bit.

[Firolius]

All these 'single spec, dual spec' bullcrap is outdated MMO mechanics. Look at the early Asheron's Call. Look at Skyrim.

 

It's called freedom, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to do anything you want with one char. Just like in real life, you 'level up' all your skills, while slowly starting forget older, unused skills.

 

Remove all specs in general, just enable all trees to everyone, give them 150 levels, so there are enough points to get everything.

 

End.

 

This

 

SWG and Ultima online systems FTW.

Want to be good with a gun, fire that gun

Want to have good defense, get hit by stuff

Get X many points / level, put them where you want

No classes, just whatever you do with your character makes it what it is

[Katanabladez]

This

 

SWG and Ultima online systems FTW.

Want to be good with a gun, fire that gun

Want to have good defense, get hit by stuff

Get X many points / level, put them where you want

No classes, just whatever you do with your character makes it what it is

 

Amen.

 

People need more sense, and to see what is fun, not what it takes for an MMO to be an MMO.

 

Most people aren't 15 year old kids with no jobs or responsibilities, I don't have 200 hours to level a single char every time I want to tank or heal. I got a full time job and a family. I just want to have fun >.>

[Truga]

This

 

SWG and Ultima online systems FTW.

Want to be good with a gun, fire that gun

Want to have good defense, get hit by stuff

Get X many points / level, put them where you want

No classes, just whatever you do with your character makes it what it is

 

Agreed.

 

However, there's a flaw in there. You're usually limited to a number of "skill points", and even if you play a character forever, you can't do everything at top performance. Same goes for skyrim, you only have 80 skill points (max level is 81), and it's up to you to use them wisely.

 

And this is what we currently have. Now people want to shuffle those points without any cost.

[trenshod]

Seeing how I'm rolling a juggernaut it doesn't make sense to roll another juggernaut just so I can have a pvp or a dps spec. Not only is it a waste of time but its a waste of a character slot for that server. I would agree that adding duel spec makes it easier but why would anyone want to repeat the same story line a second time when there are other classes and story lines to go through? Just sayin, doesn't make any sense to me.

[Mamono]

Looks like the ones who are against dual-spec are ignorant fools who do not know what it is and have made up their mind of something strange and dangerous.

 

There has not yet been one serious fact against why dual-spec should not be in the game while there is a ton of reasons why there should be.

“Cheating”, “getting all the skills”, “lazy”.

 

It has nothing to do with anything of this. And dual-spec will help the game in any way possible. But fanboys and fanatics do not have a fantasy or even are able to think clearly. Everything that my change the game a bit is bad, no matter what.

Even if it is a bug change, it is bad. They don’t care. They are fanatics. They would be happy even if the game was released in an alpha stage.

 

All I see is fanboys and fanatics shouting and screaming against it. To bad for you because dual-spec is on its way. Just wish it could have been in the game from the start.

I so looking forword to being able to heal in flashpoints and raids and going dps spec when I solo quest.

 

When I was LvL 30 I where a Bounty Hunter healer. I came agross a Lvl 30 quest where I had to kill some guards. Each group where build up of 1 hard and 2 normals.

The problems was that all 3 of them could heal. 1 CC and then nuke like hell.

As healer I could not outdamage the healing they had. With my companion we got the normal guy down to 20% and BAM, he started to heal him self up again. I could not stop it. A few seconds later he was back at 100%, and shouting for friends.

Now I would have 5 normals and 2 hard mobs. Died over and over again. No matter what I did (I count my self as an OK player) I simply could not out-dps the healing and kill the mobs before they shouted for help.

So I respected to dps. God it was easy compared to solo quest as a healer. 1 CC and the 2 adds where killed in a few seconds.

I then decided that I will never go healer again until I reach LvL 50 or dual-spec is back in the game.

And I am not the only one. How many times do you think people have been shouting for tank or healers for a flashpoint? Oh I could have healed a ton of them, if I still was in healing spec, to bad for them that I am not. Im not wasting my credits for 2 respecs just for doing 1 flashpoint.