Every group is full of greedy ninja companion looters.

[IIII-IIII-IIII]

Every group is full of greedy ninja companion looters.

no it's not. the hyperbole is strong in this one.

The fix is super super simple.

you're right, it's simple: group with guild members, friends or avoid PuGs entirely.

[Umbral]

 

In short, there are those who disagree with your personal assertion that a companion only needs quest greens or vendor items. Even if they can get by with just that, there's nothing other than your personal preference saying they have to. Sometimes there are players who want their companions performing just as optimally as they are, and to do that, they need gear.

Then if you feel that way, buy it. Or craft it. Or buy it off someone that crafted it. Don't screw over a player that can use it on the character that did the content with you.

[Ankido]

Companion gear should be purchased via special goods. There should be a coin drop to purchase items for them. Items need to be bound to player and not companion. The whole loot system is screwed up. You are rolling for two people not one. Something we have to deal with. Welcome to Star Wars The Old Republic.

[ryancwn]

A lot of people seems to forget that Need is subjective and you are superimposing your definition of need over other people and you claim your definition is the right one.

 

Need before greed is flaw because it is base on a subjective opinion and that will create drama no matter how you twist the system. Even if they lock the roll button to usable item only, you will have people that claim he need the item more because he is main tank, or the item stat suit him better etc.

 

They should go back to old school and use round the robin (for PUG) and master looter for organised raid. That way people will not think they entitle to the loot because he thinks he needed it 'MORE'. Drop BoP and do only with BoE.

[Jaku]

I'm going to call you a flat-out liar if you try to tell me you can get from 1-50 alone with no companion while you're questing. In fact it's a technical impossibility if you're, say, a Sith Marauder: there's a quest on Taris that requires you to make use of all your companions in order to complete it. It's built into the actual conversation cutscenes.

 

I would never even imply that, I was saying that if you desperately need current upgrades on your companions just to level, you're most likely failing hard. And that's saying in general, not a personal insult to you.

 

I'm not completely sure if the whole companion gear thing will even be an issue in operations, because of the way gear is distributed, but it will most likely become an issue in HM flashpoints at 50.

 

The entire point of HM flashpoints in a progression sense, is to get geared up for operations. Since your compaions will most likely not be in these HM flashpoints and regular operations, there's no point taking the gear that drops from those flashpoints other than to be better at soloing.

 

The thing is, you can literally go and buy an entire moddable set, and put level 49 mods in it for your companion. He does not need to be in HM flashpoint gear to help you quest efficiently.

 

Basically what I'm saying is, if you roll need on gear for your companion in HM flashpoints when someone else could use that for an actual character upgrade, you will most likely be kicked. Every single time. While leveling up, people probably do not care as much.

[Eldren]

Then if you feel that way, buy it. Or craft it. Or buy it off someone that crafted it. Don't screw over a player that can use it on the character that did the content with you.

 

If the only way to get an item I want is to buy it, I'll buy it. If the only way to get an item I want is to craft it, I'll either craft it or have it crafted.

 

But if the item can be acquired without the expenditure of resources, I'm going to take that option. It isn't out of a desire to "screw" other players as you seem to think. It's entirely out of the realization that companions are upgrade paths that are as equally valid as players' characters. They're part of the characters we play, their output is assumed by the game's engine in terms of level-appropriate difficulty, it's foolish to avoid an upgrade that comes along and is useful for them.

 

That player did the content with me, yes, and as a result, they have the same chance of acquiring the item in question as I do by rolling Need. What that player does with the item once they win it is none of my business.

 

What I do with the item once I win it is, likewise, none of their business.

[J-Sheridan]

But no, people like Eldren seem to think that needing on an item to help better their companions will be better for them in the long-run. (Another reality check) It won't, guarantee in a few levels you will find a better piece of gear for your companion that you can put in there without having to worry about loot drama, sure the argument can be said that so will that other party member in the flashpoint, but who are we to know?

 

Not with orange items.

Orange items allow someone to literally NEED on an item for a companion and NEVER require another item for them again because they can slot mods in to keep it up to date.

 

Thus farm low level instances for a full set and tada you can get a friend with Cybertech / Artifice to effectively keep you geared from 1 - 50.

 

This is one of the major selling points of SWTOR and as a direct fallout people go hunting for orange items for vanity / companions.

 

 

I have gotten exactly ONE orange set per character and used Cybertech + Artifice to keep me going from 1 - 50. As such your argument is flawed for the simple fact that orange items present a unique and leveless upgrade to a companion.

 

Stop being selfish greedy turds just because you want your companion to last a second longer, or do a few points extra damage. What will be more gratifying those few extra numbers of damage or the fact of knowing that you were the nice guy and didn't make several groups fall apart because of your selfishness?

 

This is utter stupidity of the highest order that rests on the assumption that a rule exists where you must have a psychic link to what people need and dont need. Your entitlement issues because you THINK you should get that item does not make someone selfish for going against your warped perception.

 

Implement a Companion Roll between Need and Greed so that Eldren can click that for every piece of loot that drops and the people that ACTUALLY need them will roll need and get them.

 

Party Members > Your Companion

 

/end thread.

 

Companion Roll would do nothing and would effectively be 'greed'

 

Your solution is to make it Roll / Pass. That way you either want the item or you do not.

Dice decides who that is.

 

Dont like it: dont group

[Wiggletphyre]

The last 5 random groups i have gotten into have some guy rolling need on krap he cant use but his "companions" can so he needs it, then a huge fight breaks out, the group splits up game over.

 

The loot system needs to be addressed, people who use heavy armor should be the only ones who can roll need on it, the same for medium, light and weapons.

 

It's getting out of hand, the companion system is just dumb it has George Lucas written all over it,

 

A stoppid npc with bad ai does not enhance my game experience, it's a frickin Massive Multiplayer Game.

 

if you want a healer you just find a REAL PERSON to heal, or to tank, why not just make a game where only 1 guy can play on a server then everyone else is a npc with ai and you can charge them 15 bucks a month to play it, yeah thats over the edge but this is just ruining the fun.

 

and you can say just "get into a guild" but you can't always run things with just guild members and you cant even guarantee a guild member will not pull this bull krap.

 

GEORGE LUCAS needs to get the hell out of the designing of this game, and go make movies, I bet George is the reason we cant play wookies or driods in this game.

 

fix the dam loot system, who care if one quest in the level 50 zone dont work, 100% of your people are trying to have fun in groups

 

tl;dr but you must still want Dungeon finder right?

[Eldren]

I would never even imply that, I was saying that if you desperately need current upgrades on your companions just to level, you're most likely failing hard. And that's saying in general, not a personal insult to you.

 

I'm not completely sure if the whole companion gear thing will even be an issue in operations, because of the way gear is distributed, but it will most likely become an issue in HM flashpoints at 50.

 

The entire point of HM flashpoints in a progression sense, is to get geared up for operations. Since your compaions will most likely not be in these HM flashpoints and regular operations, there's no point taking the gear that drops from those flashpoints other than to be better at soloing.

 

The thing is, you can literally go and buy an entire moddable set, and put level 49 mods in it for your companion. He does not need to be in HM flashpoint gear to help you quest efficiently.

 

Basically what I'm saying is, if you roll need on gear for your companion in HM flashpoints when someone else could use that for an actual character upgrade, you will most likely be kicked. Every single time. While leveling up, people probably do not care as much.

 

I don't know about you, but I'm not talking about endgame. At that point, you're right, a full set of orange gear with level 49 mods is just fine for a companion. If there are level 50 mods, those are even better.

 

There will be players, however, who don't have a full set of oranges for their companions, even once they hit 50. At that point, their companion needs upgrades. Maybe the player in question (and we're being purely hypothetical here) doesn't have the credits available for an appropriate upgrade from the GTN. Maybe a quest reward that would be an appropriate upgrade hasn't dropped. But maybe that upgrade does drop while they're in a HM Flashpoint or Operation. At that point, they'd be foolish not to avail themselves of the opportunity to acquire it. It doesn't guarantee they'll get it, it just means they have a shot at it, and they're choosing to exercise that shot. They have 100% as much right to do so as any other player in their group who helped down the boss.

 

That's what this all boils down to from my perspective: if a player helps down a boss, they have a right equal to every other player in their group to whatever that boss drops. Since all the players then have an equal right, the actual disposition of the item is determined randomly. They all have an equal chance of probability favoring them and giving them the highest roll. If they win the roll, the item is theirs, to do with as they please.

[Caelrie]

I don't know what you read, but if someone ever said that it's pretty obvious he or she was a clueless moron, and I'm surprised you'd take the time to read it.

That's what most of them said, over and over and over and over and over again. And I'm not the only one in this thread telling you this.

[Zebular]

My companions and my ship are an extension of my very character. With that in mind, if anyone has a problem with me rolling need on an item I need for my character, then that is your problem, not mine. Edited January 5, 2012 by Zebular

[neXITem]

just add another button "Companion" next to greed and need... fixed

[Sajuto]

If that's how you choose to gear your companions, that's just fine. No one should be able to tell you differently. It's your game, play how you like.

 

Exactly!! and when you roll need on items that will help my character just so you can gear your companion that impinge on the system I have set for gearing my character just so you can gear your companion who did not benefit at all in said Flashpoint then how do you think I would feel? Put yourself in the other person's shoe Eldren. I think maybe then you'll start thinking logically.

 

Also, if you're going to be rolling need for your companion you should start saying that beforehand. Since most people that invite you to a group would think that you're going to be rolling need on items that correspond to your character, not your companion. I can promise you that the amount of invites you get to Flashpoints will dwindle down into 0.

 

Anything you have to reply to this comment and try to defend yourself is just ignorant.

[Caelrie]

 

you're right, it's simple: group with guild members, friends or avoid PuGs entirely.

Wow, what "community!"

[Xenozen]

Look, here's the bottom line: if a piece drops that's an upgrade for my companion but not for me, I'm going to roll Need on it.

 

Hell, I'll even roll Need on it if it's four players in the group. My companion needs to keep their gear updated just like I do, so their output is acceptable while I'm out questing on my own. I spend the majority of my time questing on my own. I'm in a Flashpoint for 30 minutes tops.

 

Companions are extensions of the player characters. It isn't going to change. I'm not going to roll Need on an item that requires a specific class and alignment unless I'm both of those things. But if a piece drops for, say, Jaesa (light armor with Endurance and Willpower), and it doesn't put a class or alignment requirement on it, and it's an upgrade from what she currently has in that slot, I'm going to roll Need on it.

 

I was in there, I helped down the boss, I have as much right to a piece of gear as any of the other players. It's no one else's business what I do with that gear.

 

Good point and completely true. People shouldn't ***** and moan. If the drop means that much do the quest again the next day. And by then you'll probably find **** better than the drop your ************ about it

[Hatslinger]

You shouldn't be able to Need for companions at all. It makes no sense that a companion should get that gear before a PC whatsoever. Those of you that think that you need to go into flashpoints to farm for companions are not thinking logically. I have easily gained plenty of blues for Corso through quests, random drops in game, and Greeding during flashpoints.

 

If you are questing so much that your companions are a "vital part" to your gaming experience, then what are you doing with all the extra commendations you earn? Anyone that quests enough would definitely earn enough to have an excess. So, here's what you do: spend them on companion gear.

 

There are plenty of ways to earn gear for your companions besides creating drama with other players in flashpoints. Anyone that says otherwise are either lying or are simply ignorant. Companions do not need top tier gear at all times. I would argue that they rarely need top gear at all. If you play your role right, then you shouldn't have to lean on your companion that heavily.

 

I'm sorry, but I personally will not play with players that think this way. I don't care if the gear does not have a class or alignment. If it's an upgrade for another player there is no reason for a companion to get that gear before them. There is no Needing for companions. Not when there are plenty of other ways to get gear for them outside of rolls.

[alrighto]

I don't know about you, but I'm not talking about endgame. At that point, you're right, a full set of orange gear with level 49 mods is just fine for a companion. If there are level 50 mods, those are even better.

 

There will be players, however, who don't have a full set of oranges for their companions, even once they hit 50. At that point, their companion needs upgrades. Maybe the player in question (and we're being purely hypothetical here) doesn't have the credits available for an appropriate upgrade from the GTN. Maybe a quest reward that would be an appropriate upgrade hasn't dropped. But maybe that upgrade does drop while they're in a HM Flashpoint or Operation. At that point, they'd be foolish not to avail themselves of the opportunity to acquire it. It doesn't guarantee they'll get it, it just means they have a shot at it, and they're choosing to exercise that shot. They have 100% as much right to do so as any other player in their group who helped down the boss.

 

That's what this all boils down to from my perspective: if a player helps down a boss, they have a right equal to every other player in their group to whatever that boss drops. Since all the players then have an equal right, the actual disposition of the item is determined randomly. They all have an equal chance of probability favoring them and giving them the highest roll. If they win the roll, the item is theirs, to do with as they please.

 

As long as you let the party know of your intention of rolling need for your companion when the party is setup.... and you're fine with not getting anything for yourself when everyone else is rolling for their companions as well

[Jaku]

There will be players, however, who don't have a full set of oranges for their companions, even once they hit 50. At that point, their companion needs upgrades. Maybe the player in question (and we're being purely hypothetical here) doesn't have the credits available for an appropriate upgrade from the GTN. Maybe a quest reward that would be an appropriate upgrade hasn't dropped. But maybe that upgrade does drop while they're in a HM Flashpoint or Operation. At that point, they'd be foolish not to avail themselves of the opportunity to acquire it. It doesn't guarantee they'll get it, it just means they have a shot at it, and they're choosing to exercise that shot. They have 100% as much right to do so as any other player in their group who helped down the boss.

 

I'd have no problem with it as long as the guy said "Can I need for companion if no one else needs it for their character?"

 

All I'm saying is, at that point in the game, get ready to be kicked if someone else needs it as a character upgrade. Believe me, it's not going to fly, regardless if you feel you have the "right" to do it.

[haluo]

I started this thread and i want to clarify a few things.

 

I run groups with 4 people and no one has companions out, i was not even the guy that was mad about it happening, big deal i lost a weapon to some guy for his companion, which was not even in the group, but then it causes a fight.

 

instead of playing the game the group starts fighting, someone leaves.

 

guess what for all you people saying "im just gonna roll need on everything" i wear heavy armor so i can roll need on any armor, if you cant wear heavy armor you cant roll need, so i guess i will end up with more stuff to vendor "i mean give to my companions"

 

its a frikin mmo why did they even put AI pets with every class, to make it more like star wars??? i think it better to have a real person at my side being the smugler, the jedi, or the trooper, etc.. instead of some npc.

 

if i wanted to play a game with npcs i would just play kotor or any other rpg and not have to pay 15 bucks a month.

 

the bottom line is its causing fights, lots of them, think of end game raiding.

 

OMG MY AWESOME LIGHTSABER DROPEDD, HEY WHY DID THAT GUY WHO CANT EVEN USE IT GET IT, WELL THE RAID LEADER SAYS HIS COMPANION CAN USE IT AND EVERYONE ROLLS NEED ON EVERYTHING.

 

in the long run it will chase people away.

Edited January 5, 2012 by haluo

[imtrick]

That's what most of them said, over and over and over and over and over again. And I'm not the only one in this thread telling you this.

 

Yes, you are. Nobody else is making wild claims nearly as ridiculous as yours. And I'm serious, I will give you a dollar for every example you can show me of where someone claimed you'd never have "ninja looters" in a game without an LFD system.

 

It's a laughable claim that any such posts even exist. I know this won't cost me anything.

 

Again, you are lying. Not cool. If you're not, prove me wrong, and I'll happily pay you for it. It should be easy money, since you claim these posts exist all over the place.

Edited January 5, 2012 by imtrick

[denpic]

The loot ninjas/whores will soon weed themselves out

Just put them on ignore like we did in that other mmo before Lfd

 

Also I think if rolling for companions

You should state so at the start of instance

And also should be treated like off spec loot sure you need it for your characters/companions progress but if someone needs it for their main spec ie character it should go to them first

 

Basic respect and courtesy would go along way and make for a better player base

[Andryah]

When you run in a PUG you risk playing with people like that, that's all there is to it.

 

Yep yep.

 

I'm going to guess that the OP does not work out group loot agreements before the group starts the run. THAT is where the problem gets addressed. AND if you are not comfortable with what is agreed to, then drop from group. It ain't rocket science.

 

OP, you've been playing long enough in MMOs and have enough grouping experience that you should be able to: a) manage group loot rules of engagement up front. b) spot a jerk a mile away. c) know that there are jerks in the PUG community and factor that into your decison process. d) be able to make a note of a jerk the ninjas you and not group with them again.

 

It's not Biowares job to police your group dynamics and rules of engagement nor the jerks in groups for you. That's actually your job. As is loot management and coping with bad behavior surrounding loot management.

[Eldren]

Exactly!! and when you roll need on items that will help my character just so you can gear your companion that impinge on the system I have set for gearing my character just so you can gear your companion who did not benefit at all in said Flashpoint then how do you think I would feel? Put yourself in the other person's shoe Eldren. I think maybe then you'll start thinking logically.

 

Also, if you're going to be rolling need for your companion you should start saying that beforehand. Since most people that invite you to a group would think that you're going to be rolling need on items that correspond to your character, not your companion. I can promise you that the amount of invites you get to Flashpoints will dwindle down into 0.

 

Anything you have to reply to this comment and try to defend yourself is just ignorant.

 

You're not very experienced with debating, are you? You sort of just lost the argument by attempting to say any response I presented would just be ignorant. It's called the "invincible ignorance fallacy".

 

But to pull apart your argument, it's very simple. If you roll Need on an item I need to upgrade my character, you're infringing on the system I have set for my character's advancement, which assumes an equivalently-geared companion.

 

You're making a false assumption that I'd get upset if someone rolled Need on an item that was an upgrade for my character just to equip their companion. I wouldn't. Losing items, just like winning them, is part and parcel of doing group content. If I really wanted that particular item that badly, and it dropped off a specific boss, I go in and run the content again until I got the drop.

 

That's how MMOs work.

[haluo]

The loot ninjas/whores will soon weed themselves out

Just put them on ignore like we did in that other mmo before Lfd

 

Also I think if rolling for companions

You should state so at the start of instance

And also should be treated like off spec loot sure you need it for your characters/companions progress but if someone needs it for their main spec ie character it should go to them first

 

Basic respect and courtesy would go along way and make for a better player base

 

dude i totally agree i don't care if someone says, hey man mind if i roll need on that armor for my companion i usually say sure go for it, i have a 50% chance to win. its just a game.

 

but read the posts in this thread 50% of them are like im rolling need on everything so you can (bad word inserted) thats a lot i am suprised at how greedy people are, just think of endgame loot, when you run an instance 100000 times trying to get that one drop and someone takes it for their "companion"

[its_them]

There should at least be a loot option for main specs only.