Kubernetic Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 So just so I can understand, for those of you "in the know", what is it these kids want combat logs for? What do they expect to learn from these? I haven't needed a combat log yet. I'm not sure why a few of these people want it so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfik Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 So just so I can understand, for those of you "in the know", what is it these kids want combat logs for? What do they expect to learn from these? I haven't needed a combat log yet. I'm not sure why a few of these people want it so badly. e-peen e-peen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foenixz Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Combat logs would be nice in order to analyze the "*** just happened" syndrome" and teh Devs have said they will put them in at some time. A big no to addons because they make the game easy mode which it already is. what i read between the lines in every single negative response is that i dont want to get called out on my slacking or i don't want to get better. LMAO at the OP. YOU just proved every post about 'Just say no to elitist jerks' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuadsOfSteel Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 The OP may be an elitest. But who would you rather raid with. Him, or the guy who said combat logs should be private? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaashheart Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I wan't combat logs so I can prove I'm better than you instead of just thinking it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizardSF Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 . Some call it elitism. but if you go to work and get fired for not doing your job, is your boss an elitest jerk? or are you just a failure? x An interesting question, given that studies have shown that companies which use "metrics" like "lines of code written" or "number of calls resolved" usually end up firing their actually competent employees and retaining the incompetents who produce hundreds of lines of buggy code, or "resolve" calls quickly and in a way which pisses off customers. I have to wonder if similar unintended consequences arise from a strictly log-focused method of deciding, in a guild, who is "contributing" the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuadsOfSteel Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 If someones always at the bottom. they NEVER improve. somethings not right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truxcer Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 MMOs existed & managed before either of these. They can again. I am not disputing that they might be useful for some, but to suggest that they are required before you can engage in a learning process is remarkably short sighted. Also they aren't in 'already' because they weren't in when the game was launched, and it's been less than a month. If you believe there are no negatives, you haven't seen the huge threads about them. I challenge you to find MMO without combat log. I don't know any in existence and played a lot of them since early 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galtin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 e-peen e-peen. Is this your first MMO? I've been playing MMOs since EQ1 in 1998 and every MMO I have played included combat logs. In every single one of those MMOs, players were able to use those logs to verify with 100% certainty that some aspect of the game was not functioning correctly, overpowered, underpowered, flat out broken, etc. In other words, players analyzed the data and provided the developers with feedback that led to improvements in the quality of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spynnal Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) WoW did not have damage meters or aggro meters for the early raiders who keyed to MC before February '05. Yes, there was a /combatlog feature, but it was a megalithic string of output, with no website to break that data down for you, making it barely usable after the fight, and absolutely unusable during a fight. The game existed almost 3 months before 3rd party damage meters came around, and they were poor and buggy. By about April, 5 months into the game, decent damage meters came about, and very, very early aggro approximates were around. And yet people still raided and downed content. Patience is a virtue, and this game isn't even a month old yet. Edited January 4, 2012 by Spynnal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerry Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 elitist because you want to analyze your play? because you want to get better? I dont need a reply from a non-raider. thanks thou. the" i dont want combat logs because people will call me out" argument is invalid You are correct, that one is invalid, as a raider however I could care less about Combat logs - sure they are informative, sure they come in handy, however I am quite proud of the fact that my self and guild can accomplish whatever comes along without the use of such things. They do provide a lot of good information; especially for theorycrafters - however, they do unfortunately get used by a large contingent of morons who use them as epeen yardsticks and ways to elevate themselves above the rest using numbers as a guide to greatness. This is in fact damaging, not only to the community of a game, but to the perception of greatness. We have become an MMO culture where #'s = skill; and that just isn't the case. Never has been, never will be. Without such tools you are more apt to get a better idea of who is skilled, rather than meter-addicts. Mind you, I am not against them - I am against how they get twisted. I am not for them - as I believe a real MMO player can get through without them (they have for many years actually). I wish there was a way to implement them without allowing them to be misused, then they would be great for theorycraft and not become a plague on society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharknite Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 The OP may be an elitest. But who would you rather raid with. Him, or the guy who said combat logs should be private? I would take the guy who said combat logs should be private, I have been in one many raids were elitists have ruined things. I can deal with wipes, but the attitudes and the holier than thou rantings grate on my nerves. That being said I wish the game had combat logs so that I can see what killed whether in pvp or pve and plan accordingly. Also it helps me to more knowledge about to the spec that I am facing( at this point I can tell AC by sight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Proberly because they dont want this game turning into World of Warcraft because it will bring out all the elitest jerks & arogant know it alls that think they are higher then everyone else if they do decided to bring it out they should make the logs private and non shareable so others cant see O rly? Interviewer: So we talk about analytics and what you guys do on the developer side. Players like to do their own analytics and how to improve their characters. What tools int he game help you do that? Will you be able to export a combat log or anything like that? Georg Zoeller: Not at this point, but it's something very high on our priority list Interviewer: What's the pro and con of having something like that in? What's your approach to players min-maxing? Georg Zoeller: I have no problem with players min-maxing. I'm min-maxing myself. We do have pretty good... the tooltips are pretty good. The information on the items I think is pretty good. We're right now lacking a bit is in the evaluating your performance or your group's performance. Umm what I can tell you is there's no conspiracy where we're like we're hiding this so people aren't discriminating against other players. If you want to, you know, run a very competitive operations group and you wanna improve, having this data is certainly interesting. Umm and we're not against it, it's just right now not in. Will it make it in for launch? We don't know at this point but it's very high priority. http://torwars.com/wp-content/uploads/Podcasts/fan_sum_02_qa_georg_zoeller.mp3 Read it. Please, read it and freaking UNDERSTAND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrax Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Why isnt this implented yet? I know there is a thread somewhere but without search function on the forum its hard to find. If you want ANY serious PvE guilds to take this game seriously this MUST be added in the near future. There is no real negatives other than that the slackers may be told off or kicked from the guild. How are you supposed to know why you didnt manage to kill a boss if you got no stats to go give you an indication of why you failed? and how will the unexperienced ever get better if they have no idea what they are doing wrong? it makes no sense to me. Don't expect add ons any time soon. They have said it's not a big priority for them. I'm guessing 3-6 months at the earliest. Edited January 4, 2012 by Mandrax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fierystix Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 While I do want combat logs and better UI functionality, I'm done with the add-on culture in games. I used to think otherwise, but that was when certain games wouldn't give you the information you absolutely needed. BW just needs to fix certain things--making your own buffs and debuffs more distinguishable between others'. The ability to move certain windows. Etc. Otherwise, screw add-ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zootzoot Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Proberly because they dont want this game turning into World of Warcraft because it will bring out all the elitest jerks & arogant know it alls that think they are higher then everyone else if they do decided to bring it out they should make the logs private and non shareable so others cant see LOL. Umm what I can tell you is there’s no conspiracy where we’re like we’re hiding this so people aren’t discriminating against other players I love the people who think Bioware is worried about people's feelings being hurt for being bad. Edited January 4, 2012 by zootzoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhuru Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 what i read between the lines in every single negative response is that i dont want to get called out on my slacking or i don't want to get better. Then your nasty attitude is the problem. You and people like you are the reason we might never get combat logs. You only have yourself to thank. For the record I would love to have a combat log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfik Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 In other words, players analyzed the data and provided the developers with feedback that led to improvements in the quality of the game. the players provide feedback to developers.. i doubt you play MMO from EQ1 the only reasons that combat logs exist are A) E-peen B) Find Cookie-Cutter Builds C) Analyze the game perfomance of anyone ps. i play from Ultima Online now my opinion is heavier than yours? why someone must tell us what was his first MMO before he say anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashy Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 elitist because you want to analyze your play? because you want to get better? I dont need a reply from a non-raider. thanks thou. the" i dont want combat logs because people will call me out" argument is invalid You best drag that snowflake under some shade before it melts dude..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrmexaw Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 recap and combat log monitoring would clearly show how unbalanced certain class are compared to the other wich would end in mass exodus of the other class. You wouldnt want to see lf 2 commado dps lightsaber dps need not apply in chat would you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokeit Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Self combat logs are something I'd favor but just for informative purposes. Knowing what ability I just got hit with that knocked out half my health, what killed me, why my ability was interrupted, or just comparing similar abilities for their damage would be useful. Anything more than that is pointless for many reasons. Firstly who cares what others are doing. You dont need logs to tell if someone is being a baddy. Secondly combat logs are bad from a technical perspective. The servers already use a lot of bandwidth to tell you what the target's HP is and what animations should be going on around you. When you add every single ability near you being used and all damage done, crit or no crit, ability name, etc. the bandwidth cost rises. Get too much bandwidth and you start experiencing lag which is far worse than not being able to see how hard your party member just smacked that critter for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galtin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 the players provide feedback to developers.. i doubt you play MMO from EQ1 the only reasons that combat logs exist are A) E-peen B) Find Cookie-Cutter Builds C) Analyze the game perfomance of anyone ps. i play from Ultima Online now my opinion is heavier than yours? why someone must tell us what was his first MMO before he say anything Do you have problems coping when people don't agree with you? Hate to shatter your world, but smart players capable of using their brains have been using combat logs to discover defects, design problems with MMOs probably before you were even born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zootzoot Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Self combat logs are something I'd favor but just for informative purposes. Knowing what ability I just got hit with that knocked out half my health, what killed me, why my ability was interrupted, or just comparing similar abilities for their damage would be useful. Anything more than that is pointless for many reasons. Firstly who cares what others are doing. You dont need logs to tell if someone is being a baddy. Secondly combat logs are bad from a technical perspective. The servers already use a lot of bandwidth to tell you what the target's HP is and what animations should be going on around you. When you add every single ability near you being used and all damage done, crit or no crit, ability name, etc. the bandwidth cost rises. Get too much bandwidth and you start experiencing lag which is far worse than not being able to see how hard your party member just smacked that critter for. A full combat log is needed. Self only is only good for Theorycrafting. How do you know that a player isn't pulling his or her weight exactly? Maybe their just using their auto attack and an occasional ability. In the heat of combat you can't really tell if someone is maxing their damage. Also...a full Combat Log would allow for future addons to display info from the log in a more legible manner. Most addons use the Combat Log to gather the info they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 So just so I can understand, for those of you "in the know", what is it these kids want combat logs for? What do they expect to learn from these? I haven't needed a combat log yet. I'm not sure why a few of these people want it so badly. Stroke their e-peen to others, and confirm with themselves that they are doing the expected DPS according to what some website told them they would be doing with 'this' DPS rotation and spec. That way, all they have to do is press the correct buttons at the correct times and not have to worry about any actual team work, situational awareness, synergy, or basic generosity with their group members. Then they say WE are the lazy bad players because we dont want the community to crumble into the b/s that is WoWs playerbase who only really care about what some stupid addon says. Because it is "SOOO necessary" for the 1-3 boss fights in the entire game, that might have a rage timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGonzoJoe Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerafyrm#Kerafyrm_-_The_Sleeper No real-time logging. No healing add-ons. No raid frames. All it took was people committed to finding a way to accommodate for mechanics of an encounter that was, by design, supposed to be unbeatable. So just stop being bad, sack up, and learn to raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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