Sorcerer - Hardmode or "I'm sorry you aren't a Sniper"

[Tzeth]

Had this complaint from several tanks for Hardmode, plus it's not just me but all the Sorcerer's I've talked to. Our DPS just doesn't cut it in Hard Mode to fill a DPS slot. (If you are a melee DPS I understand you are in the same if not worse shape because of mechanics).

 

So far, I've seen several groups that basically have stated if I am not a Sniper or Mercenary, I can only fill the heal role in the current Hardmode content because of the enrage timers.

 

So I push and I try, and I do 31 point Madness, or 31 point Lightning, or a hybrid. Deal with rotations, test numbers, work on champion and elite mobs in the world to get the perfect set of DPS, enter a Hardmode and have to agree. My DPS isn't good enough.

 

 

I've put in purple 22 enhancements of Crit/surge, Crit/Alacrity, Power/Surge, Power/Alacrity and combinations of those to do what I feel is the most I can without the Hardmode gear. I have 14000+ hp, over 1200 Willpower and at the end of the day I am still not considered as DPS unless the group has a fully geared out Sniper.

 

Beyond the fact the enrage timers are really off for most players, does anyone else feel we lack the hardmode ability to DPS?

 

If you do feel your sorcerer does keep up, please post your skill tree, basic stats and choice of enhancement types so that the rest of us can keep up.

[MrSteak]

Anybody who won't group with you because of your class is a FOTM noob, you don't want to group with them anyway. When their beloved class gets a nerf, they'll panic and wipe repeatedly while skilled players will continue to use varying combinations of classes.

[Unago]

Actually I think that our class has the best burst of them all atm especially when all our procs line up . Lightning specced sorcerer here. I've killed all the hardmode bosses in flashpoints with varying dps players.

 

Here is a video of me against Bulwark for instance (tightest enrage in the game):

 

But you should ignore those people saying that they want specific classes. Every class is viable, it just needs a player that knows how to play it .

 

Stats: willpower, mostly crit/surge based with some alacrity.

Spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZrsrbdoMutzZcM0M.1

Rotation: Affliction -> Thundering Blast -> Crushing Darkness -> Lightning Strike (x3) unless Chain Lighting/Force Lightning Proc.

After that its more of a priority system:

- Keep Affliction on boss

- Force Lightning (only on proc)

- Chain Lightning (only on proc)

- Crushing Darkness

- Thundering Blast (be sure that Affliction is on boss)

- Lightning Strike (filler)

 

For Trash (weak/strong mobs) without CC:

- Force Storm -> Chain Lightning proc . rinse repeat.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Unago

[Lucielo]

By that logic you shouldnt take jugg tanks bevause u need the extra powertech dps to beat enrage timers?

 

Having done all non bugged to hell hard,odes as a dps sorc with either a sniper, merc or an assassin and had no problems... Especially not with anjugg tank ... Zomg double minus deeps!

 

Stack surge for silly crits andvwatch ur dps rise with 30% + crit.

 

Apologies for typos, written on my phone quickly!

Edited January 4, 2012 by Lucielo

[darkonnis]

1200 Willpower is a little low for some of the hardmodes, this might be why. I have this much on my tank for example. Where as mercs/snipers i group with have 1500+ most of the time. All i'll say is simply having modd'd orange gear doesn't automatically mean you can do a hardmode. My tank is in mostly purples, or blues, and i can now tank everything i've tried. The DPS in my guild isn't on track yet so i've had to do these with randoms or we never make the enrage timer. When i started i had about 15k HP, with my orange gear and 1k willpower, i'm now up to about 17.8k unbuffed and 1.2k willpower myself.

 

Of my guild, the sorc has had less upgrades than the sniper but she performs DPS which takes aggro from me, i would assume, that either our sniper isn't up to scratch in terms of rotation, or you are doing something wrong, because she doesn't seem to have a problem with DPS.

[boomdead]

Lightning Sorc dps is in a great place right now in PvE. If you can't keep up, you are doing something wrong.

[lukecwalker]

how can u tell what your dps is?

[DasSheep]

I dont know whats in your koolaid but sorc's deal great damage.

 

 

Not sniper damage, but still really good damage.

[sanctified]

how can u tell what your dps is?

 

They can't. They're just assuming.

[bboudreaux]

HA! you think it's bad now .. it will be 100 times worse when DPS meters are introduced

[Raixx]

Sorcs and Snipers are the strongest at the moment, from what I've heard.

[Hokonoso]

HA! you think it's bad now .. it will be 100 times worse when DPS meters are introduced

 

not worse, better. we will finally be able to see what our top dps spec is, fighting elites does not cut it due to lucky crits/procs. for aoe my dps kills snipers but for single target they beat me so i can understand the complaints, but with the right gear we do more than enough. ive done statweights but am too lazy to release any due to no parsers, bsaically surge > everything else, crit must be 30%+ tho, power/alacrity have varying degrees of success once other measures are met.

[ReFlexionn]

sorc might not be a burst class but their dmg is consistent, rly not too far from dps class dps....that's something i learned when i pvp'd with my sorc and my op...but then i again it could be flawed

[blargness]

This is MMO endgame in a nuttshell. You're going to see class stacking for harder content to min/max the group and beat rage timers.

 

Your best hope until a balance pass (which will likely just change what classes get stacked) is to pray you can get reasonable guildies that will bring you along. Now it just becomes a matter of making sure your group collectively can still defeat the content.

[Jadalyn]

They can't. They're just assuming.

 

But there is some damage indicators on your character sheet under the "Spell Damage" tab.

[Seonho]

I agree with most of the posters here. I usually heal HMs but I do the occasional reset of talents for some lightning dps. I have no problems at all dishing out tons of consistent damage and we found that sorc + sniper did more damage than sniper + sniper with the same kind of gear.

 

I don't see the problem, either it is your gear, or you, the problem lies in.

[nametakenz]

Actually I think that our class has the best burst of them all atm especially when all our procs line up . Lightning specced sorcerer here. I've killed all the hardmode bosses in flashpoints with varying dps players.

 

Here is a video of me against Bulwark for instance (tightest enrage in the game):

 

But you should ignore those people saying that they want specific classes. Every class is viable, it just needs a player that knows how to play it .

 

Stats: willpower, mostly crit/surge based with some alacrity.

Spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZrsrbdoMutzZcM0M.1

Rotation: Affliction -> Thundering Blast -> Crushing Darkness -> Lightning Strike (x3) unless Chain Lighting/Force Lightning Proc.

After that its more of a priority system:

- Keep Affliction on boss

- Force Lightning (only on proc)

- Chain Lightning (only on proc)

- Crushing Darkness

- Thundering Blast (be sure that Affliction is on boss)

- Lightning Strike (filler)

 

For Trash (weak/strong mobs) without CC:

- Force Storm -> Chain Lightning proc . rinse repeat.

 

 

why would you force lightning only on proc when it out damages lightning strike even when speced lightning and taking into account the proc were lightning strike does a second hit for 30%.... anyways. madness beats lightning by miles

[Jigglypants]

We cleared all hardmodes with an operative and sorc as dps. On top of that a juggernaught tank and me as sorc healer.

 

I don't know, maybe it will be easier with a powertech tank and sniper dps and all that fancy stuff, but from what I can tell, player skill matters alot more.

[sanctified]

why would you force lightning only on proc when it out damages lightning strike even when speced lightning and taking into account the proc were lightning strike does a second hit for 30%.... anyways. madness beats lightning by miles

 

Dude, pay attention to what he's laying out for you. He's using the class he wants, with the spec he wants, and he's completing difficult content. It's player skill over: "Anyway madness beats lightning." He's also proving his point with videos as opposed to your theorycrafting.

Edited January 5, 2012 by sanctified

[Ashnazg]

I think you are trolling.

 

A) With no way to tell what our dps is, how can anyone turn anyone else down for insufficient dps? It makes little sense, and I haven't seen anything like that on Jung Me yet.

 

B) Naked sorcs with nothing but a focus and a lightsaber can outdps most other classes in pvp. No reason to assume PvE is suddenly substantially different.

[Gjeep]

Dude, pay attention to what he's laying out for you. He's using the class he wants, with the spec he wants, and he's completing difficult content. It's player skill over: "Anyway madness beats lightning." He's also proving his point with videos as opposed to your theorycrafting.

 

What he said.

[eloco]

Been clearing hardmodes no problem as Lightning/Madness hybrid.

[SageLaL]

They can't. They're just assuming.

 

This is exactly it.

Having played a sniper and sorc I can tell you it does feel like you're doing more as a sniper, but I think that's simply because of the bigger numbers snipers get to see.

Whether one class is out performing the other or not is really not clear to the players and this is a huge flaw with the game at the moment.

The lack of combat log and mods might be hiding design short comings in balance, as I stated in the beta forms as long as these tools don't exist for players arbitrary measures such as exclusion of classes who are considered 'low dps' or certain tanks/healing classes or spec favoritism will be used without any solid evidence to try and gain an edge over the content.

[Jorander]

I have yet to run any serious numbers, spending the majority of my time on leveling characters and enjoying the story. That said, I have been consistently out dpsed on my sorcerer, by less geared and lower leveled toons. I am not a bad player. I am not even an average player. Before the game's actual release, I had the perfect rotation and stat spread already figured out. The thing is, I can actually stay more or less even with snipers. What I cannot compete with at all, in any way, is mercenaries, especially on AoE. The single-target difference is decent, but the AoE gap is massive. Without any mods, we are left with nothing but hard math as a reliable metric. At best, we all seem to have, for the moment, nothing but worthless anecdotal evidence. I will say that snipers do seem to scale quite well with gear, maybe a little better than sorcerers, but again, without running numbers, it is impossible to know for sure.

[frmorrison]

I have yet to run any serious numbers, spending the majority of my time on leveling characters and enjoying the story. That said, I have been consistently out dpsed on my sorcerer, by less geared and lower leveled toons. player. I am not even an average player. Before the game's actual release, I had the perfect rotation and stat spread already figured out. The thing is, I can actually stay more or less even with snipers. What I cannot compete with at all, in any way, is mercenaries, especially on AoE. The single-target difference is decent, but the AoE gap is massive. Without any mods, we are left with nothing but hard math as a reliable metric. At best, we all seem to have, for the moment, nothing but worthless anecdotal evidence. I will say that snipers do seem to scale quite well with gear, maybe a little better than sorcerers, but again, without running numbers, it is impossible to know for sure.

 

How do you know if someone out dps you? PvP doesn't count. Right, we need tools.