WoW was released 7 YEARS ago - It is NOT the standard for MMO Release

[genesiser]

I'll compare WoW now to SWTOR now. WoW log on doing LFR kill Deathwing, log in next tuesday and repeat. SWTOR now lvl 8 characters to 50, see the story, gear them-help fix bugs along the way, pvp, space combat, crafting and multiple other things that people find enjoyable. If WoW is a better game for you then by all means their servers are still live but telling others that this game sucks makes WoW an embarrassment to MMO's everywhere. Good luck learning kung fu I hear their next expansion is going to be awesome.

 

I don't know why you are telling me to go back to wow.

 

All I'm doing is telling you the reality of today's mmo market. It doesn't matter if this game is new. It has to compete with wow even though wow is 7 years old. Just because you or I are ok with bugs in a new mmo release doesn't mean everyone is like that. This game doesn't run smooth especially if you play a jedi guardian. That can turn a lot of people off. Hell look at all the responses that thread about ability delay has gotten.

 

That one issue has turned off a lot of people because they expect their combat, the most basic aspect of an mmo to be smooth. It isn't. They knew it when they released it and they shipped it anyway.

[genesiser]

wow still didnt have the content of eq at launch. i didnt ask why you accepted wow for what it was, just like you didnt ask why i accept TOR for what it is.

 

 

this thread was started to show how a game that has been out for 7 years has more content than one thats been out less than a month.

 

also, eq has had 14 expansions since it released, wow hasnt. does that amount of content automatically make eq a better game?

 

But wow streamlined a lot of aspects of mmos with smoother, less clunky play which made playing games in this genre much more enjoyable. Content is good to have, but smooth reactionary play is more important. Something the devs in this game forgot.

[kalexkhan]

wow still didnt have the content of eq at launch. i didnt ask why you accepted wow for what it was, just like you didnt ask why i accept TOR for what it is.

 

 

this thread was started to show how a game that has been out for 7 years has more content than one thats been out less than a month.

 

also, eq has had 14 expansions since it released, wow hasnt. does that amount of content automatically make eq a better game?

 

No, I told you straight up its not the ammount of features that count. Having the right kinds of features, in the right places, for your targeted audience is what counts.

 

...And thats right, I didn't ask you why you accept it for what it was, i asked you why its BETTER THAN WOW?

 

If it was a better game, or had the right kind of innovations in the right kinds of places, enough people would be talking about how fantastic it is. IMO, they hedged their bets on cinematic dressings on quests, but its not enough to make people feel like they're playing the next great thing in MMO's and thats where many of us want to put our money in 2012.

[Zmidponk]

Wrong they write the stories, and then lucas arts scans it and says ok

 

In addition, SWTOR is based more around KOTOR and KOTOR 2 than the SW films. Who invented the whole era of KOTOR and KOTOR 2? Bioware.

 

As for the figures of development costs, where are people getting them? I ask because I can find nothing confirmed at all. The closest I can find is various third parties reporting that Vivendi said that WoW cost $63 million to develop, not $40 million (and that's for vanilla, not the expansions), and the only references to $300 million as development costs for SWTOR are reported rumours started by a disgruntled ex-employee that have apparantly been categorically denied by EA's CEO, John Riccitiello. The actual cost is estimated to be about $130 million, but, again, that's estimates made by third parties, not information from EA or Bioware themselves.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Zmidponk

[iRoddy]

Yeah exactly. If a company was to release a new phone this year, they're not going to compare it with a 7 year old phone are they?

 

Fanboys just can't accept reality, especially the fact that this game didn't live up to its HYPE. If it did, there wouldn't be so much negative feedback on the forums. And also these fanboys think that this game is perfect and not really open minded for suggestions.

[Avrose]

I die a little inside when I see these threads because they are proof that people take no time to investigate a product before they buy it. This results in self set expectations which in turn are shattered, which caused disgruntled customers to leave posts like this on the forum that also doesn't help anything.

 

Why Am I posting here when I can let the thread die?

Well its not dieing because there seems to be either A) many foolish people who do the above or B) many people trying to smack some sense into A).

 

Either way the damage is done.

[kalexkhan]

Yeah exactly. If a company was to release a new phone this year, they're not going to compare it with a 7 year old phone are they?

 

Fanboys just can't accept reality, especially the fact that this game didn't live up to its HYPE. If it did, there wouldn't be so much negative feedback on the forums. And also these fanboys think that this game is perfect and not really open minded for suggestions.

 

They will expect that phone to be better than a 7 year old one.

[kalexkhan]

I die a little inside when I see these threads because they are proof that people take no time to investigate a product before they buy it. This results in self set expectations which in turn are shattered, which caused disgruntled customers to leave posts like this on the forum that also doesn't help anything.

 

Why Am I posting here when I can let the thread die?

Well its not dieing because there seems to be either A) many foolish people who do the above or B) many people trying to smack some sense into A).

 

Either way the damage is done.

 

Blame the marketing team then.

[Vulgarr]

But wow streamlined a lot of aspects of mmos with smoother, less clunky play which made playing games in this genre much more enjoyable. Content is good to have, but smooth reactionary play is more important. Something the devs in this game forgot.

still didnt/doesnt have the content of eq. stop dodging the point.

[TheHauntingBard]

I don't think Bioware is trying to compete with Blizzard.

The game looks more like a cash grab, that's why it's not fair to compare the games.

Blizzards intention has always been to earn money and keep their huge fanbase happy, Bioware/EA are not companies that work like that.

 

Also Blizzard goes for game play >>>>> every thing , Bioware tends to focus on stories.

 

 

There is no denying that Bioware did nothing innovative when it comes to game play/quest design.

PVE and PVP are the same deal, it's very similar if not the same as in other MMO's.

WOW did things different than EQ, your preference can't be questioned.

 

 

It's alright to like this game, and well it's alright not to like this game as well.

But don't tell me this game was meant to be a serious competitor on the MMO market.

 

It's dragon age with a Star Wars skin where you pay a sub for new content.

Sure it has some instances and some raids but it's as copy paste as it can get.

[LeSamourai]

Sure, and they've also had SEVEN *********** YEARS TO PERFECT IT

 

 

 

Seriously, people STILL don't get it? It's like trying to explain to a 4 year old that two different shaped glasses of water MAY be able to hold the same amount of liquid. The discussion just goes round and round; idiocy.

 

 

 

Yeah exactly. If a company was to release a new phone this year, they're not going to compare it with a 7 year old phone are they?

 

Fanboys just can't accept reality, especially the fact that this game didn't live up to its HYPE. If it did, there wouldn't be so much negative feedback on the forums. And also these fanboys think that this game is perfect and not really open minded for suggestions.

 

Because WoW isn't really a "seven year old game". Most think of it as a "game that's had seven years to mature", which is correct.

 

People judge too many products too quickly these days, especially MMOs.

 

 

If you don't like it, then leave. No one cares about you

Edited January 4, 2012 by LeSamourai

[Dawning_Enmity]

I am sick of people bringing up WoW being released with bugs as a rebuttal to people saying how buggy SWTOR's release is. Let's bring up some facts:

 

• WoW was released nearly a DECADE ago.
  
• WoW did not have nearly as much resources as SWTOR
  
• WoW had nothing to use as a "perfect" standard - EQ/UO/SWG/etc were nowhere near what WoW was at release. SWTOR has 7 YEARS of WoW's dos and don'ts, what gained and lost customers, what people hated and liked. WoW didn't have this kind of feedback on aspects of the game.
  

There are probably many more, but this is enough to make your argument a moot point. Comparing WoW release to SWTOR release is utterly retarded, as the difference in not only time, resources, etc. is massive, but the fact SWTOR has a game so huge to simply "copy/paste" from (which they did, you can't deny it, unfortunately they didn't do it in the areas that count) that is 100% proven to WORK, yet didn't take advantage of it, just shows poor development. They took bits and pieces of a working system and instead of making it their own, literally left it as bits and pieces. That creates bugs.

 

OP, if your such a huge WOW supporter, why are you here?

lemme guess you cant raid cause your raiding buddies came to SWTOR...

 

Lets talk about currently.. RIGHT this second bugs and all SWTOR > Wow.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Dawning_Enmity

[Nidien]

WoW was better on RELEASE than SWTOR.

And WoW release was better than what it got nowdays, lolz.

Those 7 years arguments are bullcrap ;D

 

If we had WoW classic quality instead of cataclysm, believe me, this game wouldn't see 10k subs.

 

WoW had server downtimes of 72+ hours.

There were patches that Blizzard literally BROKE WoW and it was unplayable for days until patches were revereted or fixed, even after BC release years into it's development.

Queues were 100X worse than anything SW:TOR has seen, not to mention server stability was AWFUL.

There were holes in the world ALL OVER the damn place for years.

The druid class was one of a few classes that were broke for almost 2 years.

Class balance? bwhaha Classic Paladin vs. Shaman that's all I have to say.

WoW only had a few 5-man dungeons upon release, which again were bugged to hell and you could run them as a 40 man(and that's just one example of dozens)

MC was there, but again bugged to high heaven, not to mention not even fully itemized and the gear that was in the game, didn't even have proper graphics which took a year to get.

WoW's open world was full of graphical problems....why do you think they needed to redo every classic zone with cataclysm for flying mounts? because if you were to fly over the world you would see holes EVERYWHERE missing textures and the devs even stated so, hence why cataclysm allowed flying mounts in classic areas because of a total rewrite of code.

 

I can go on all day about WoW's release problems, because sadly that's only a minor list of the problems it had.

 

If WoW classic was to release today, IT wouldn't have 10k subs..period. Only reason it grew like it did, was due to perfect timing.

 

So, why is it people like yourself like to make yourself look stupid? I don't get it...but you must enjoy making yourself look stupid, because there is no other possible explanation for it.

 

I played WoW for 5 years, enjoyed the time I spent until WoTLK dumbed the game down so far that I didn't enjoy it anymore, but to say that WoW's launch was anywhere near good is a straight up gd lie.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Nidien

[genesiser]

still didnt/doesnt have the content of eq. stop dodging the point.

 

You just made my point for me. The amount of content isn't what matters (yes, you need to have a raid and dungeons etc) and it's more about smooth play. Something neither swtor or eq has.

[Vulgarr]

No, I told you straight up its not the ammount of features that count. Having the right kinds of features, in the right places, for your targeted audience is what counts.

 

...And thats right, I didn't ask you why you accept it for what it was, i asked you why its BETTER THAN WOW?

 

If it was a better game, or had the right kind of innovations in the right kinds of places, enough people would be talking about how fantastic it is. IMO, they hedged their bets on cinematic dressings on quests, but its not enough to make people feel like they're playing the next great thing in MMO's and thats where many of us want to put our money in 2012.

its a better game because of the better community than wow.

 

and no LFR LFD

 

still, eq has more content than wow.

 

you guys are saying this game should have launched with the same amount of content as current wow.

 

it didnt, just like wow didnt launch with the same amount of content as eq.

[kalexkhan]

I don't think Bioware is trying to compete with Blizzard.

The game looks more like a cash grab, that's why it's not fair to compare the games.

Blizzards intention has always been to earn money and keep their huge fanbase happy, Bioware/EA are not companies that work like that.

 

Also Blizzard goes for game play >>>>> every thing , Bioware tends to focus on stories.

 

 

There is no denying that Bioware did nothing innovative when it comes to game play/quest design.

PVE and PVP are the same deal, it's very similar if not the same as in other MMO's.

WOW did things different than EQ, your preference can't be questioned.

 

 

It's alright to like this game, and well it's alright not to like this game as well.

But don't tell me this game was meant to be a serious competitor on the MMO market.

 

It's dragon age with a Star Wars skin where you pay a sub for new content.

Sure it has some instances and some raids but it's as copy paste as it can get.

 

 

I tend to think you are absolutely right, and its funny cause i bought that game conceding to that point. A bioware game that i've been able to play with friends has certainly been worth the box price, and i'd pay it again if they made one of these for Mass Effect, or even Dragon Age... However, for me unfortunately, i'm figuring out that its not worth a monthly subscription, and i'm dissapointed but i'll get over it.

 

And the community will be better when the people like me leave. That much is definately true.

[pocketthesaurus]

I agree with you OP, but people are still going to compare wow at launch to this game. It makes it seem like TOR is a lot better. People seem to forget time.

 

It's also like comparing what we have now to what WoW had then. That comparison is always dumb, because TOR isn't going up against WoW from seven years ago. It's going against wow today.

 

But fanboys will be fanboys I suppose.

Fanboys don't factor into it. I don't WANT this game to have the things that WoW has. A LOT of people don't want that. And this game is better for NOT having those things.

 

I don't know why everybody insists we need a LFG option or macros or mods. I find groups for EVERY FP faster in this game than using the freakin' random dungeon tool in WoW!

[Dawning_Enmity]

Fanboys don't factor into it. I don't WANT this game to have the things that WoW has. A LOT of people don't want that. And this game is better for NOT having those things.

 

I don't know why everybody insists we need a LFG option or macros or mods. I find groups for EVERY FP faster in this game than using the freakin' random dungeon tool in WoW!

 

+10!! Thank you!

 

People need to learn how to play an MMO, not a dumbed down version, social skills are part of the skills required to play mmo's! Assessing other players, ect is part of this too, We dont need Mods, or LFG cheese.

[kalexkhan]

its a better game because of the better community than wow.

 

and no LFR LFD

 

still, eq has more content than wow.

 

you guys are saying this game should have launched with the same amount of content as current wow.

 

it didnt, just like wow didnt launch with the same amount of content as eq.

 

I agree that yea EQ definately had more features and content, wayyyy more.

 

But, i know you've read my posts, and its not toe to toe features that matter in the end, its QUALITY ones. Quality meaning new or better. If it had enough new or better ones, people would forgive the lack of x, or y, and would put up with bug a. and bug b.

 

Since we don't have those quality new features, users are then compelled to start asking about the missing ones? Because if you make a game thats too familiar of a product of the old one, you will inevitabely get grilled for missing stuff.

[Thugtwo_onethree]

WoW's launch was much more clean than SW:TOR's launch in terms of technical issues and bugs.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

HAHAHAHAAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAAHA

 

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA,

 

Seriously though, you are either full of it, or full of it.

 

Much like SWTOR, the problems i experienced in WoW when it released, people are experiencing them now with SWTOR. Usually cause they want to play it on a jallopy. Or an outdated Compaq, that probably runs WoW perfect on low setting, but isn't letting them play SWTOR, install it or just plain log in.

 

I wasted 2 weeks getting my rig to playing standards for that game. Finally when i started to play, i seen one person get ganked in Hillsbrad Foothills 3x. Out of the 2, his corpse was still out in the fields, 2 of the same corpses laying next to each other. My PC would get black walls, then either a Blue Screen, or a crash.

 

Again, you may not compare the 2 games, or it may seem sacrilegious to the WoW fan base, cause their PCs can only play that game, but hey, its usually PEBKAC anyhow.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Thugtwo_onethree

[kalexkhan]

Fanboys don't factor into it. I don't WANT this game to have the things that WoW has. A LOT of people don't want that. And this game is better for NOT having those things.

 

I don't know why everybody insists we need a LFG option or macros or mods. I find groups for EVERY FP faster in this game than using the freakin' random dungeon tool in WoW!

 

I agree 1000x times with you for this. It's better for the things WOW doesn't have accept....

 

What does it have that WoW doesn't have right now? Honestly?

 

Ships and crew, and cinematics are the 2 things i've got on my list. Can you think of some more for me?

Edited January 4, 2012 by kalexkhan

[DarthWoad]

Were comparing WoW now to SWTORs release. Obviously BW could have learned from WoW now ( why would they copy something released 7 years ago?) and made it better in SWTOR

[TheHauntingBard]

I tend to think you are absolutely right, and its funny cause i bought that game conceding to that point. A bioware game that i've been able to play with friends has certainly been worth the box price, and i'd pay it again if they made one of these for Mass Effect, or even Dragon Age... However, for me unfortunately, i'm figuring out that its not worth a monthly subscription, and i'm dissapointed but i'll get over it.

 

And the community will be better when the people like me leave. That much is definately true.

 

I think this game is worth the box price, and I am pretty sure it's worth 3 months sub to finish some class quests.

If I am honest I kind of expected this as well , though some times you can hope that they will push for it.

But it's not a huge disappointment.

 

I am pretty sure it's worth to resub some where in 6 months if they added more story and you get to play a bit more.

But for the reason many play mmo's this game falls short and that's simply because of their attitude.

Edited January 4, 2012 by TheHauntingBard

[Blekael]

I will say I did not ready every post in this thread, so i am not sure if this point has been brought up, but no matter how long ago WoW released and no matter what size their design team is, most games have nearly the exact same development cycle. So there is no reason that this games release cannot be compared to the release of wow, as that is the stage in the development cycle that it is currently at.

[Dodia]

I agree 1000x times with you for this. It's better for the things WOW doesn't have accept....

 

What does it have that WoW doesn't have right now? Honestly?

 

Ships and crew, and cinematics are the 2 things i've got on my list. Can you think of some more for me?

 

WoW has cinematics too though, so only one thing I suppose.