Episode IV: What was the plan?

[Cherokeewill]

In anticipation I find myself rewatching the trilogy and seeing things I never really picked up on before, especially with the prequels *ptooey* behind them now. Many of the exchanges don't make sense anymore but I'm not as concerned about that. My question to you is, What was the plan the Yoda and Obi Wan were working on? It honestly seems to show the ineptitude that lead to the downfall of the Jedi. Here's how I see it;

 

1) Obi Wan gives this force sensitive child over to two of the only other people in the galaxy that knew Anakin Skywalker, on his home planet, living right next door to grave of the mother whose death began the journey down the Dark Side. Of course Vader wouldn't get sentimental at any point in the next 20 years, right?

 

2) Obi Wan gives Leia to Bael Organa, the man Anakin thought was having an affair with his dead wife. Of course Vader wouldn't get unnecessarily vengeful in the next 20 years, right?

 

3) 20 years go by, Obi Wan stays close enough to know that Luke is a good pilot but never chooses to make himself known and begin his training at a young age for full indoctrination. Training Anakin at an older age than the rest of his Padawan classmates worked out so well last time, right?

 

4) Yoda has apparently been keeping an eye on Luke from afar as well, or at least his state of being (Never his mind on where he was...) Yet, there was never a directive to influence this behavior?

 

These are just some of the questions that arise. If the twins truly were the last hope of the Jedi, why was it fate and not the last remaining Jedi that made them what they were? With this kind of forethought and planning it's no wonder they were wiped out by Order 66. It almost seems to me that Yoda's plan was to allow the Jedi to end with Obi Wan and him and the Sith to die with the Emperor and Vader but Luke needing to save his sister ruined everything and they made the rest up on the fly.

 

So, let me have it. Am I really that far off the mark or do these things get to you too?

[BansheeLT]

Now that you mention it, yeah - those choices don't make much sense. But some of them came about recently as a way to tie in the more recent movies and I seriously doubt they were originally connected so, such as with Organa.

[Ruinondd]

It wasn't Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope at release. It was just star wars, all the he has 9 movies and this is the middle trilogy stuff came later once he saw it was a hit

[Pillowattack]

In the original screenplay, Luke Skywalker was supposed to be part of some kind of midget alien race. So, just be grateful that 20th Century Fox had the foresight to veto some of George Lucas' ideas a little bit.

[Dimus]

the man Anakin thought was having an affair with his dead wife.

 

Necrophilia?

[Dimus]

Seriously, though, this is what happens when you sew together several different stories into one. Edited December 14, 2011 by Dimus

[noctivagus]

But... but... George Lucas totally had this whole story worked out in his head and stuff...

[DarthSeer]

Seriously, though, this is what happens when you sew together several different stories into one.

 

Only when, such as in this case, there is no forward planning as to what those stories would entail...

[JediMasterChirs]

I don't recall Anakin ever thinking that Bael Organa was having an affair with the mother of his children. Also you are forgetting to mention two importent facts:

 

1: It was Governor Tarkin's, not Darth Vader's, idea to use the Death Star to destroy Alderan to coerce Leah into revealing the location of the hidden Rebel base.

 

2: Darth Vader didn't know Leah is Luke's twin sister until his final confrontation with his son in Return of the Jedi.

[DarthSeer]

...Obi-Wan Kenobi didn't recognise R2-D2 when first re-meeting him on Tatooine.

 

He also fought in the Clone Wars "against" the Empire (technically it was for the Empire surely)?

[roadrunner]

3) 20 years go by, Obi Wan stays close enough to know that Luke is a good pilot but never chooses to make himself known and begin his training at a young age for full indoctrination. Training Anakin at an older age than the rest of his Padawan classmates worked out so well last time, right?

 

Some good points, but a I thought Luke called Obiwan kenobi.. Ben Kenobi. He says something like "I wonder if he (r2d2) means Ben Kenobi" Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with something else.

 

 

 

...Obi-Wan Kenobi didn't recognise R2-D2 when first re-meeting him on Tatooine.

 

He also fought in the Clone Wars "against" the Empire (technically it was for the Empire surely)?

 

 

Tbh. I wouldn't have remembered the droid either. It looks like those droids were mass produced like crazy in those days. It's like you remembering your Apple II unit 30 years later.

Edited December 14, 2011 by roadrunner

[Rothlain]

Well there was no plan. In real life when SW was made there was no Vader is Luke's father twist. Yoda wasn't even thought of either. Vader was what Obiwan originally said. He was a different character from Anakin Skywalker entirely. All other info rolling out was reactive after they decided on using the Vader is Luke's father twist. Basically playing catch up to make it work. That's why Obiwan later makes up that BS point of view stuff.

[DarthSeer]

Some good points, but a I thought Luke called Obiwan kenobi.. Ben Kenobi. He says something like "I wonder if he (r2d2) means Ben Kenobi" Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with something else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tbh. I wouldn't have remembered the droid either. It looks like those droids were mass produced like crazy in those days. It's like you remembering your Apple II unit 30 years later.

 

Really? All individually numbered, so there was only ever 1 R2-D2, the one which fought with them on General Grievous' command ship? How could he forget that?

[Bohmfalk]

 

1) Obi Wan gives this force sensitive child over to two of the only other people in the galaxy that knew Anakin Skywalker, on his home planet, living right next door to grave of the mother whose death began the journey down the Dark Side. Of course Vader wouldn't get sentimental at any point in the next 20 years, right?

 

Obi-Wan could have known that in his turn to the Dark Side, Vader would have never wished to go back to Tatooine. Plus, that planet is such a backwater world, the Emperor's Apprentice/Enforcer would have little reason to go there. (This is ignoring the fact that everyone that has contributed to EU has acted like Tatooine is one of the most popular planets in the universe...)

 

2) Obi Wan gives Leia to Bael Organa, the man Anakin thought was having an affair with his dead wife. Of course Vader wouldn't get unnecessarily vengeful in the next 20 years, right?

 

I also don't remember Anakin thinking Bail was having an affair with Padme'....though he did seem to think that she was having one with Obi-Wan. Bail Organa, actually, was one of the few Senators who didn't sign the petition that was used to try and get Palpatine to step down from Chancellor. His plan was to make a show of backing Palpatine every step of the way, so that Palpatine wouldn't think that Bail was against him. Therefore, Vader had no reason (at this time) to think that Bail was against the Empire.

 

3) 20 years go by, Obi Wan stays close enough to know that Luke is a good pilot but never chooses to make himself known and begin his training at a young age for full indoctrination. Training Anakin at an older age than the rest of his Padawan classmates worked out so well last time, right?

 

When he brought Luke to Owen and Beru, he felt it necessary to give them full parental control. So when Owen told Obi-Wan to stay away (because he didn't want Luke to run off and either get killed or turn evil like his father), Obi-Wan stayed away, watching and protecting Luke from afar.

 

4) Yoda has apparently been keeping an eye on Luke from afar as well, or at least his state of being (Never his mind on where he was...) Yet, there was never a directive to influence this behavior?

 

Yoda's role wasn't to intervene in Luke's life in any way other than to train him. Plus, if he tried to do anything beyond merely watch Luke, Yoda would most likely have been felt through the Force by Sidious and Vader, thereby making his isolation pointless.

 

These are just some of the questions that arise. If the twins truly were the last hope of the Jedi, why was it fate and not the last remaining Jedi that made them what they were? With this kind of forethought and planning it's no wonder they were wiped out by Order 66. It almost seems to me that Yoda's plan was to allow the Jedi to end with Obi Wan and him and the Sith to die with the Emperor and Vader but Luke needing to save his sister ruined everything and they made the rest up on the fly.

 

So, let me have it. Am I really that far off the mark or do these things get to you too?

 

I'm not defending these reasons are rational, I'm just saying that this is probably the reason that these things were done.

[Thyrdad]

There is much about the "Originals" (pts 4, 5, 6) that while amazing at the time, are so goofy now, and, almost contrary to "canon," that it's more or less just swallowed and ignored at this point...

 

If I'm not mistaken, R2-D2 began on Padme's royal ship as the only surviving droid, who saved her and Obi-wan (and Qui-Gon), by fixing the hyperspace thingy...hehe...then, became property of the Jedi, and adopted by Anakin in every adventure of his and Obi-wan's...Obi-wan always commented on R2-D2's independence and upgrades (by Anakin)...Obi-wan knew and commented all along on R2 in memory of his being unique...and, etc.

 

Obi-wan saw R2 drag Padme onto the ship in the end, as well as knowing clearly who C3-PO was - being made by Anakin himself, and later in the service of Padme directly...Obi-wan knew who C3-PO was for sure...and, so on...

 

Also, the "Republic" fought against the "Federation" in the Clone Wars...so, even that reference is owee..

 

Obi-wan in IV says Anakin was 1 of his students, and says Darth Vader was 1 of his students...of course, being the same, still he implied that he was a "teacher" of various or multiple students over his years...when, he had only 1 (as we later learn in the prequel).

 

bleh...tons of issues integrating the prequels with the originals...but, so what...hehe...

 

Upon rewatching episode IV recently, in my waiting for TOR fever, I sort of saw Obi-wan as either partially senile with altzeimers or more or less deliberately not revealing stuff and/or denying stuff falsely to Luke (almost like lying...which, hmmm, didn't fit the "light side" aspect)...soooooooo, I just laugh it off...

 

I loved the originals when I was a kid, and saw them in the theater, but now, I appreciate the "extended" storyline through the books and other movies and game storylines more (ie.: KOTOR1&2, even Force Unleashed 1&2)...to me, all the other stuff besides episodes IV, V, VI are way better (more involved and richer content)...other than, forgive me, the lame approach to Anakin "turning" to the darkside...bleh...

[EvanSnowWolf]

Droids are kinda like (INSERT MINORITY RACE HERE) to Obi-Wan. They all look the same to him.

[HARBINGERXIII]

The reason why you are confused is you are trying to link up stories that are written decades apart, by an artist who hadn't created the material happening prior to the original trilogy yet.

 

Lucas actually started working on the script for Star Wars back in 1973. It was re-written several times before they started making the film. Here is a list of just some of the changes.

 

1: Obi-Wan Kenobi was originally intended to be General Luke Skywalker.

 

2: The "Dath Vader" character was origianlly divided between two different characters. One who redeemed himself by helping the heroes, & one that stayed evil.

 

3: Luke Skywalker was originally Anakin Starkiller. His father was one Kane Starkiller who dies during the course of the story.

 

4: Han Solo was originally a large green alien, then was changed to a flamboyantly dressed pirate, (read rumors physical appearnce was homage to Coppola) & then finally becomes the Solo we know. However, Solo's character undergoes the fewest changes between versions.

 

5: In certain earlier versions "Leia" is a demi goddess, in others she is a witch. The sister angle wasn't created until after A New Hope. The rescue of the princess & the romance of the princess by Han Solo was present from early on.

 

6: The "Vader" character wasn't originally intended to be Luke's (Anakin Starkiller's) father. The plan once the "Vader" characters were combined into one character, was for "Vader", along with "Anakin Starkiller's" father, & "General Luke Skywalker" to have all been friends & have been Jedi together. "Vader" betraying the two of them as described in A New Hope by Obi-Wan, was actually a plot line that emerges in later rewrites of the script before filming ever started.

 

7: The original trilogy was intended to be one movie. Hence the title STAR WARS, originally The Star Wars. Lucas split it into three films when he realized the film would be to long. The events of The Empire Strikes Back were originally not part of the original script or the various rewrites. The primary events of the story focused on a version of the events that would become the film A New Hope; later rewrites would add elements that would become the film Return of the Jedi.

 

8: The "R2-D2" & "C3-PO" characters were originally human bureaucrats. They weren't changed to droids until later rewrites.

 

9: The Ewoks were originally suppost to be Wookiees. Chewbaca was to help the heroes enlist the aid of the Wookiees in assulting the fortress.

 

That just a recap of some of the major shifts, there are quite a few more. The original script was rewritten several times before the film was made. & so Lucas has been backtracking & retconning his own scripts & films since A New Hope. The whole "Vader/father", & the "Leia/sister" angles were created after A New Hope. Which cause the creation of that line we all know so well.

 

So remember I am not wrong, "from a certain point of view".

Edited December 15, 2011 by HARBINGERXIII

[Cfullard]

Who remembers when Mandalorians were a warrior race? Yeah... good times...

[Lostfett]

The reason why you are confused is you are trying to link up stories that are written decades apart, by an artist who hadn't created the material happening prior to the original trilogy yet.

 

Lucas actually .......//

 

.......// So remember I am not wrong, "from a certain point of view".

 

Nice info!

 

I do remember a recount of the filming of the scene where Luke finds out Vader is his father. There was a lot of secrecy, and I think only a few people knew of the Vader father thing by the time of the movies release.

[Vasma]

Nice info!

 

I do remember a recount of the filming of the scene where Luke finds out Vader is his father. There was a lot of secrecy, and I think only a few people knew of the Vader father thing by the time of the movies release.

 

 

From what I remember of a documentary/behind the sceen show was that the original script for "I'm your father sceen' read as "Obi-wan killed your father" and that's what the actor in the Vader suit and Mark Hamil were reading/reacting to. It was only Lucas and James Earl Jones in the ADR (Aditional Dialogue Recording) stuidio knew of the changes since all of Vader's lines were added after filming.

[Bohmfalk]

From what I remember of a documentary/behind the sceen show was that the original script for "I'm your father sceen' read as "Obi-wan killed your father" and that's what the actor in the Vader suit and Mark Hamil were reading/reacting to. It was only Lucas and James Earl Jones in the ADR (Aditional Dialogue Recording) stuidio knew of the changes since all of Vader's lines were added after filming.

 

I'm pretty sure that Mark Hamil also knew about the "I'm your father" line. Think about his reaction....it would have been kind of hard to pull that off if the character just thought that his father had been killed recently, especially since Luke's been seeing Ben on and off for quite some time.

[jarjarloves]

In anticipation I find myself rewatching the trilogy and seeing things I never really picked up on before, especially with the prequels *ptooey* behind them now. Many of the exchanges don't make sense anymore but I'm not as concerned about that. My question to you is, What was the plan the Yoda and Obi Wan were working on? It honestly seems to show the ineptitude that lead to the downfall of the Jedi. Here's how I see it;

 

1) Obi Wan gives this force sensitive child over to two of the only other people in the galaxy that knew Anakin Skywalker, on his home planet, living right next door to grave of the mother whose death began the journey down the Dark Side. Of course Vader wouldn't get sentimental at any point in the next 20 years, right?

 

2) Obi Wan gives Leia to Bael Organa, the man Anakin thought was having an affair with his dead wife. Of course Vader wouldn't get unnecessarily vengeful in the next 20 years, right?

 

3) 20 years go by, Obi Wan stays close enough to know that Luke is a good pilot but never chooses to make himself known and begin his training at a young age for full indoctrination. Training Anakin at an older age than the rest of his Padawan classmates worked out so well last time, right?

 

4) Yoda has apparently been keeping an eye on Luke from afar as well, or at least his state of being (Never his mind on where he was...) Yet, there was never a directive to influence this behavior?

 

These are just some of the questions that arise. If the twins truly were the last hope of the Jedi, why was it fate and not the last remaining Jedi that made them what they were? With this kind of forethought and planning it's no wonder they were wiped out by Order 66. It almost seems to me that Yoda's plan was to allow the Jedi to end with Obi Wan and him and the Sith to die with the Emperor and Vader but Luke needing to save his sister ruined everything and they made the rest up on the fly.

 

So, let me have it. Am I really that far off the mark or do these things get to you too?

 

If Obi Wan was one of the last remaing jedi and Darth Vader and the Empire had orders to KILL all jedi why would he

 

1. Keep his LAST NAME

 

2. Keep wearing JEDI ROBES

 

 

course what we consider to be Jedi Robes where never meant to be the robes of the Jedi as Luke and Uncle Owen also wear them.

[jarjarloves]

Some good points, but a I thought Luke called Obiwan kenobi.. Ben Kenobi. He says something like "I wonder if he (r2d2) means Ben Kenobi" Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with something else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tbh. I wouldn't have remembered the droid either. It looks like those droids were mass produced like crazy in those days. It's like you remembering your Apple II unit 30 years later.

 

Except in this case your Apple 2 from 20 years saved your life on more then 1 occasion and talked.

 

Also he should have reckonized C3P0 as he has a very distinct voice that we haven't seen any other droids talk like. Seeing the two of them together should have instantly brought back memories.

[Bohmfalk]

Except in this case your Apple 2 from 20 years saved your life on more then 1 occasion and talked.

 

Also he should have reckonized C3P0 as he has a very distinct voice that we haven't seen any other droids talk like. Seeing the two of them together should have instantly brought back memories.

 

Well, if you notice in the PT, they aren't together all that often....R2D2 is with Anakin pretty much the whole time, and C3PO is with Padme from Shmi's death on (which Obi-Wan wasn't there to witness). In fact, Obi-Wan never saw C3PO until he was in the care of Padme. Plus C3PO's memory had been wiped at least once. R2D2, though, I believe he never had his mind wiped, though I could be wrong. I do think that Kenobi would likely recognize R2 though, I'm just trying to reason on the side of canon here. Maybe he was just playing dumb in order to not reveal too much to Luke, or maybe he'd been in the heat and sand for too long.

[Halefthaut]

Necrophilia?

 

I pee´d myself laughing lol

 

 

OP: take in account that movies were written in the late ´70. Most assuradly there was some pot among other nice stuff involved