Future of Swtor

[Scopian]

You're not having faith, you're a fanboy.

 

Not a single sane person would release a game in the state that SWToR currently is.

 

For example look at PvP.

Level 11 and level 50 players in the same Bg.

REALLY? How drunk do you have to be, to implement it like that?

 

Oh, yeah, i forgot, the buff you get...

Gives the level 11 a nice 10k hp buff and lets him do some more damage.

But a lvl 50 with his 15k+ hp can still go afk and drink a cup of coffee, come back and just 3-shot-the lvl 11 without having the fear to die...

 

Or the auction house.

Yeah, i can search for heavy armor, but when i only need a helmet i have to look through 20 pages of heavy armor just to realize, that not a single helmet is on sale right now...

 

And i'm not even starting about the bugged companion bars, my broken BH Quest (or should i say my multiple bugged BH quests, since you have to download the english client cause all the other languages have major bugs in it which make it impossible for you to proceed) , the broken flashpoints and the ridiculous useless Ilum, where friend and enemy don't care about each other, cause killing people doesn't give anything useful but flagging towers gives...

 

Long story short:

Having faith is useless.

Money won. They wanted to release it for christmas so they get the most possible number of people to buy it...but now they don't care at all about those players. The bad reputation will go away once theyll release Miltiary Shooter #4 and Single Player RPG #18....each with their own fanboy-base...

This is so true it isn't even funny.

[Lazzerswords]

 

I am so tired of this argument, THIS IS NOT A VALID RESPONSE.

The reason WoW is justified in having these problems at launch is because they were the FIRST ONES TO ENCOUNTER THEM. Nobody had made and MMO of that size before and nobody had to deal with what they dealt with.

 

SWTOR came out much much later, THEY WERE ALREADY AWARE OF POSSIBLE ISSUES AND BUGS BECAUSE ITS HAPPENED TO GAMES BEFORE. There is no excuse for them not to have fixed them before launch.

 

I want you to imagine World of Warcraft and SWTOR are two separate boats. Yes, Boats.

 

When World of Warcraft first hit the water, it was the first boat of that size to ever sail, obviously there was going to be unforseen issues, SINCE NOBODY HAS SAILED IT BEFORE.

 

SWTOR is a boat that hit the sea more then 4 years after World of Warcraft, THEY WERE ALREADY AWARE OF HOW BIG BOATS ARE SUPPOSED TO SAIL, AND YET THEY IGNORED IT COMPLETELY.

 

Do you understand? They had precedents they could have looked to, but yet they decided to hide behind their "OH ITS INNOVATIVE GROUND BREAKING GAMEPLAY" argument instead of giving the players what they want and making a stable game.

 

/mad

 

 

This> Fanboys are really going into some cognitive dissonance here.

[Lord_Itharius]

Lots of people still playing WoW after 7 years even if they lost millions of subs. WoW has evolved since vanilla and yet the ultra loyal fans still stick to it. Wow has takin the risk and changed the skill system in their latest expansion. But Wow is a survivor and I think Swtor is also going to listen to its community and evolve in the next several years. In that respect, I feel safe with Swtor and trust that Bioware and the devs will much improve this game by fixing issues & adding new stuff. What do you think.

 

I don't trust Bioware at all atm. They haven't shown they can fix problems, since many of the bugs from beta are still in the game, and they released it half finished. They are also known to not support their games very well post release, so I'm definitely worried. Meanwhile, Blizzard has abandoned WoW for the next 9 months to finish up Diablo 3 and Panda Land. Looks like MMO's are a dying breed if Bioware doesn't fix their game.

[windzro]

I love how people use wow's 11 million as a tool to rant on SWTOR...

 

 

 

There was no way in this crasy galaxy that SWTOR was gonna launch with 11 million subs, so stop using that as a tool.

[Goonin]

Dear me, you are gullible aren't you? All of those 'forum stories' suckered you right in didn't they? You actually believe all of those over-hyped tales where there is only one side of the story given?? It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people that will believe EVERYTHING they read.

 

It's laughable. Really it is.

 

Your response is just BRILLIANT SIR.

 

 

You offer no claims against what I stated, but instead you state:

 

"THEY ARENT REAL"

 

By god that just might be the worst counter-argument in history!

 

In all seriousness what you just posted is the equivalent of covering your ears and saying "NA NA NA NA NA I CANT HEAR YOU IT ISNT REAL"

[MBirdy]

I'm sorry, I was unaware EQ and FF11 had 11 million subscribers, Oh whats that? THEY DONT. HOW SHOCKING.

 

 

I wasnt referring to the indiviudal glitches that this game has, I was referring to what the game provides as a whole. They gave you unfinished content (read the thread about the 50 raids enemies having generic names since the devs didnt go back and rename them), the mods are ridiculous (banning the name Gash and keeping Massive'negro, banning for traveling in zones above your level, banning for buying and selling on the auction house, and having a suspicious inventory.) P.S when your banned, you cant cancel your subscription so they can keep charging you money). Having bosses that the dev's NEVER beta tested, And releasing and unfinished game.

 

They knew what they were dealing with when they released this game (WoW). They knew the bar was held high, they knew what players DESERVE and NEED (e.g. a playable game). AND THEY FELL SHORT ON ALL OF THESE PROMISES.

 

 

how can you people not see this

 

Oh im sorry I didnt know WoW had 11 million subscribers on release.... OH WAIT WE HAVE STUPID LOGIC again.... are WoW players not capable of being consistent in thier arguements?

[ninoss]

If they don't fix maintenance hours game is dead for me.

[Breeti]

WoW had lots of issues at launch and for months afterwards. They also did things to take care of their customers because of it.

 

I remember getting an additional month of playtime for free and getting two full rested bars on my chars because of issues they had with the game. It was the right thing for them to do and kept me as a customer.

 

I'm not saying Bioware should do that btw, I'm just pointing out that Blizzard was aware of their issues, communicated them to their customers and made amends.

 

How BW handles peoples issues/complaints right now could determine the attitudes people have towards them in the long run.

[coffeoholic]

Originally Posted by Goonin

 

I wasnt referring to the indiviudal glitches that this game has, I was referring to what the game provides as a whole. They gave you unfinished content (read the thread about the 50 raids enemies having generic names since the devs didnt go back and rename them), the mods are ridiculous (banning the name Gash and keeping Massive'negro, banning for traveling in zones above your level, banning for buying and selling on the auction house, and having a suspicious inventory.) P.S when your banned, you cant cancel your subscription so they can keep charging you money). Having bosses that the dev's NEVER beta tested, And releasing and unfinished game.

 

You stop it you stop it right now!

I can understand bashing things but blatant lying? You should be ashamed.

 

 

Stop believing everything you read on the internet... seriously.

[Jxspyder]

They built up to that point because Blizzard cares about their players, Unlike Bioware.

 

If you need examples you can re-read my last points (because I'm assuming you took the time to read the first line, attempt and fail at correcting it, then disregarding the rest) or you can just browse the general to see how many issues this game has

 

No, they built up to that point because they made the game exceptionally easy and casual friendly. Over a span of 4-5 years, in it's 7 year lifespan. Again we come to your apparently lack of knowledge of the first three years of WoW's existance. If anything, Blizzard spent too much time listening to the players, rather than testing out for themselves. As was evidenced in nearly every single patch that had something that contradicted the previous patch.

 

And to be honest, I did read your entire post. I corrected the first line, because it was something I felt you may be capable of understanding the fallacy of your statement. Because let's face it. Your first statement was an utter lie intended to make a point. Something you do quite regularly. The rest of your post, however, was so rediculous and full of falsehood, it would have taken way too long to correct.

 

Which is why, again, so many people are disagreeing with you. You tend to make up stuff to attempt to make a point....that's based on made up information.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Jxspyder

[Forsbacka]

See, I agree with most of this. That's because the MMO genre was never meant to be a multimillion subscriber model. WoW was just an anomoly in the genre. The perfect example of a successful MMO would be EVE for subscription base, and LoTRO for F2P. It's also pretty evident that Bioware and EA are looking more at something like EVE than WoW as a measure of success for it's game.

 

EA and Bioware stated early on that their aim is to beat WoW. EA wouldnt be interested to spend all this cash for 1 mil player base. Well this will hardly make an competition.

[Maakos]

You're not having faith, you're a fanboy.

 

Not a single sane person would release a game in the state that SWToR currently is.

 

For example look at PvP.

Level 11 and level 50 players in the same Bg.

REALLY? How drunk do you have to be, to implement it like that?

 

Oh, yeah, i forgot, the buff you get...

Gives the level 11 a nice 10k hp buff and lets him do some more damage.

But a lvl 50 with his 15k+ hp can still go afk and drink a cup of coffee, come back and just 3-shot-the lvl 11 without having the fear to die...

 

Or the auction house.

Yeah, i can search for heavy armor, but when i only need a helmet i have to look through 20 pages of heavy armor just to realize, that not a single helmet is on sale right now...

 

And i'm not even starting about the bugged companion bars, my broken BH Quest (or should i say my multiple bugged BH quests, since you have to download the english client cause all the other languages have major bugs in it which make it impossible for you to proceed) , the broken flashpoints and the ridiculous useless Ilum, where friend and enemy don't care about each other, cause killing people doesn't give anything useful but flagging towers gives...

 

Long story short:

Having faith is useless.

Money won. They wanted to release it for christmas so they get the most possible number of people to buy it...but now they don't care at all about those players. The bad reputation will go away once theyll release Miltiary Shooter #4 and Single Player RPG #18....each with their own fanboy-base...

 

Not a single person would release a game in this state?, Wow didn't even have a Pvp system, had loads of bugs and other "bad systems".

 

I would say that no sane gaming company would realese a finished product, and no one does, thats what brings customers back, and expands their customer base, development... Now its a fairly good game, its fun to play 1-50 because its new and good storyline, the end content and pvp gets boring pretty fast, but as any other MMO they realese patches and expansions.

 

Long story short:

you dont have a clue what your talking about as most people whining here, this is the best way to have longterm customers, if you don't want to play the game don't, quit whining about it and come with some creative critisism.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Maakos

[knightblaster]

See, I agree with most of this. That's because the MMO genre was never meant to be a multimillion subscriber model. WoW was just an anomoly in the genre. The perfect example of a successful MMO would be EVE for subscription base, and LoTRO for F2P. It's also pretty evident that Bioware and EA are looking more at something like EVE than WoW as a measure of success for it's game.

 

The trouble is that a game like EVE cost a pittance to make compared with a contemporary MMO. It's doubtful that EA will be happy with EVE's level of success, given how much money they spent developing the game. That's my point -- MMOs used to be for a smaller playerbase, and the development cost reflected that -- games were made more cheaply and the emphasis was on design for the smaller playerbase (and a hardcore one but less of an epeen/esport oriented one). Nowadays, everyone wants a piece of WoW's market (certainly EA does ... this is its second try), so they spend like water to end up ... a small playerbase. I think developers need to realize that the "natural playerbase" for MMOs is quite small and in many cases "niche" -- WoW is an outlier, and it can't be replicated.

[Goonin]

No, they built up to that point because they made the game exceptionally easy and casual friendly. Again we come to your apparently lack of knowledge of the first three years of WoW's existance. If anything, Blizzard spent too much time listening to the players, rather than testing out for themselves. As was evidenced in nearly every single patch that had something that contradicted the previous patch.

 

And to be honest, I did read your entire post. I corrected the first line, because it was something I felt you may be capable of understanding the fallacy of your statement. Because let's face it. Your first statement was an utter lie intended to make a point. Something you do quite regularly. The rest of your post, however, was so rediculous and full of falsehood, it would have taken way too long to correct.

 

Which is why, again, so many people are disagreeing with you. You tend to make up stuff to attempt to make a point....that's based on made up information.

 

 

You dont browse these forums much do you? Every single issue I've cited made an appearence on this very forum, many of them with Moderator responses. You can go read them if youd like.

 

 

Oh and please dont reply back to me without any sources of your own, you cant just say the stuff I'm posting is false and have nothing to back it up with.

[Weepa]

If you don't like it don't play?

[coffeoholic]

You dont browse these forums much do you? Every single issue I've cited made an appearence on this very forum, many of them with Moderator responses. You can go read them if youd like.

 

 

Oh and please dont reply back to me without any sources of your own, you cant just say the stuff I'm posting is false and have nothing to back it up with.

 

Just as you have nothing to back up the claim that when your account get cancelled they still bill you.

 

You spread misinformation there too buddy. And have no qualms about doing it.

[Robochomp]

They built up to that point because Blizzard cares about their players, Unlike Bioware.

 

If you need examples you can re-read my last points (because I'm assuming you took the time to read the first line, attempt and fail at correcting it, then disregarding the rest) or you can just browse the general to see how many issues this game has

 

Yeah 100% agree! I find it absolutely absurd that 18 DAYS into launch and every single bug, glitch problem hasn't been ironed out as well as the adding of 25 raids, 52 raid bosses, 3 more warzone maps , a LFD, LFR, LFG, xserver LFD, LFR, LFG, arenas, bracketed pvp etc! This is unreal that BW doesn't care about its customers enough to do these things when they clearly had 18 days to do so, this game and BW are fail!

 

/sarcasm

 

On a serious note Swtors launch was far greater and smoother then the launch of WoW's Wotlk and Cata, servers were basically unplayable for quite a few days afterwards, since it's considered "unfair" to compare it to vanillas launch.

[Jxspyder]

EA and Bioware stated early on that their aim is to beat WoW. EA wouldnt be interested to spend all this cash for 1 mil player base. Well this will hardly make an competition.

 

Go ahead and source Bioware developers stating that their aim is to beat WoW. Then try to mesh this with the statement that TOR only requires 500k subs to be profitable. I'll wait.

[MBirdy]

You dont browse these forums much do you? Every single issue I've cited made an appearence on this very forum, many of them with Moderator responses. You can go read them if youd like.

 

 

Oh and please dont reply back to me without any sources of your own, you cant just say the stuff I'm posting is false and have nothing to back it up with.

 

Being punished for sitting on a broken spawning lsicing node for hours DOEs effect the economy, and warnings were/are given ... so please, stop twisting ****.

[coffeoholic]

Yeah 100% agree! I find it absolutely absurd that 18 DAYS into launch and every single bug, glitch problem hasn't been ironed out as well as the adding of 25 raids, 52 raid bosses, 3 more warzone maps , a LFD, LFR, LFG, xserver LFD, LFR, LFG, arenas, bracketed pvp etc! This is unreal that BW doesn't care about its customers enough to do these things when they clearly had 18 days to do so, this game and BW are fail!

 

/sarcasm

 

On a serious note Swtors launch was far greater and smoother then the launch of WoW's Wotlk and Cata, servers were basically unplayable for quite a few days afterwards, since it's considered "unfair" to compare it to vanillas launch.

 

Hell I remember for Cata launch mobs and quests not giving experience for 6 hours after the launch.

THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO LAUNCH A SIMPLE EXPANSION W/O ANY BUGS! THEY HAD ONLY BEEN OUT FOR 6 YEARS AT THAT TIME!!!! AND ALL THAT MONEY!!!!! /amIdoingitright?

[Jxspyder]

The trouble is that a game like EVE cost a pittance to make compared with a contemporary MMO. It's doubtful that EA will be happy with EVE's level of success, given how much money they spent developing the game. That's my point -- MMOs used to be for a smaller playerbase, and the development cost reflected that -- games were made more cheaply and the emphasis was on design for the smaller playerbase (and a hardcore one but less of an epeen/esport oriented one). Nowadays, everyone wants a piece of WoW's market (certainly EA does ... this is its second try), so they spend like water to end up ... a small playerbase. I think developers need to realize that the "natural playerbase" for MMOs is quite small and in many cases "niche" -- WoW is an outlier, and it can't be replicated.

 

EA has already stated that TOR will be profitable at 500k subs. Or not quite double EVE's level of success. I don't understand your insistance that they must have this multimillion dollar sub level. Obviously they'd more than likely be happy with it, just as they've been happy with the fact that TOR has the highest launch numbers in an MMO, ever. Being happy with higher numbers doesn't mean those higher numbers are a requirement, however.

 

I mean, it's just as easy, and likely much more factually correct, to state that EA learned from their attempt to beat WoW. And instead of trying to beat it, they're trying to go around it and just be "successful" by targeting a slightly different playerbase.

[Robochomp]

Hell I remember for Cata launch mobs and quests not giving experience for 6 hours after the launch.

THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO LAUNCH A SIMPLE EXPANSION W/O ANY BUGS! THEY HAD ONLY BEEN OUT FOR 6 YEARS AT THAT TIME!!!! AND ALL THAT MONEY!!!!! /amIdoingitright?

 

 

Yes perfectly lol!

[Goonin]

EA has already stated that TOR will be profitable at 500k subs. Or not quite double EVE's level of success. I don't understand your insistance that they must have this multimillion dollar sub level. Obviously they'd more than likely be happy with it, just as they've been happy with the fact that TOR has the highest launch numbers in an MMO, ever. Being happy with higher numbers doesn't mean those higher numbers are a requirement, however.

 

I mean, it's just as easy, and likely much more factually correct, to state that EA learned from their attempt to beat WoW. And instead of trying to beat it, they're trying to go around it and just be "successful" by targeting a slightly different playerbase.

 

So EA and Bioware are shooting for 500k player base and that's all they care about.

 

They seem like they are settling for less after realizing how unsuccessful the game is.

 

 

Thats like if you were taking a test, aiming to get an A (or to beat WoW), and after seeing how hard the test is, and realizing you should have prepared more, youre going to settle for a D.

[Mothballd]

The million who like the game will keep playing it, those who don't will play here on the forums. This thread is mainly amusing in how many tropes are present here. I notice a lot of this one. Probably more productive to spend your energies in whatever MMO it is you do like. The important vote happens with subscription dollars, not on the forums.

[Jxspyder]

You dont browse these forums much do you? Every single issue I've cited made an appearence on this very forum, many of them with Moderator responses. You can go read them if youd like.

 

 

Oh and please dont reply back to me without any sources of your own, you cant just say the stuff I'm posting is false and have nothing to back it up with.

 

Quite a bit, actually. Every single issue you've brought up is found on the forums. Most of them incorrectly, however. Like your claim that WoW launched 4 years before TOR. Or your claim that getting a ban means you'll be billed for life with no way of cancelling. Or your claim that people are getting banned for no reason, or because they simply bought something on the GTN.

 

And actually, as you've yet to provide a source of your own....sure I can. It's what you're doing, after all. Probably because the evidenciary posts that would be used to support your point, I.E. the posts from Bioware's devs responding to these wild, made up stories you've been reading, would disprove your points.