biowareftw Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Just played a double premade (all same guild) with all tanks and dps and heal specced sorcs. They were all level 30-40 with no expertise. I have full champ gear on my scoundrel. I have Biochem with power adrenal and stack it with crit/surge trinket. My highest hit in the entire warzone and this included the warzone buff/adrenal/crit surge trinket at the same time? 4202. That was a crit with 3 buffs stacked. Now add expertise to this. Now add 15000-17000 health pools at 50. You are looking at 2.5k to 3 k max on an opener that fills someones resolve bar. You are lucky if this even breaks a sage/sorc shield. Moral of the story? Tank stacking wins. Period. It negates any burst or dmg that people are complaining about. People are starting to realize it. All these chars were obviously rerolls who have figured out what most of us have been saying for a long time. The only dps worth a damn in premade vs premade is one that can shield/heal other people (in which case they have to tri spec and sacrifice dmg) or a dps that can taunt/guard (assasssin/shadow is the best option). If they ever have competitive pvp in this game? The only dps class worth bringing that is actually dps speccedm will be assassins/shadows (they can taunt/guard) and one marauder/sent for mortalstrike. No other classes need apply. But keep complaining that dps specs are "pwning up" pug warzones. Almost every scoundrel/op I know is already rerolling shadow/assassin anticipating competitive pvp. We will be healing on the scoundrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphalegend Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (>-_-)> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madgecko Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Nerf operatives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratoforce Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Open on the healer instead of the tank. You should be able to kill them. At level 27 me and my scoundrel can take out a level 50 tank/healer combo by sitting on the healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurinax Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Open on the healer instead of the tank. You should be able to kill them. At level 27 me and my scoundrel can take out a level 50 tank/healer combo by sitting on the healer. Healer takes 50% less from tank's guard, you lose. Just because the combo you downed had a tank that was in its dps stance or forgetting to use guard doesn't mean that EVERYTHING EVERYONE SAYS IS WRONG EVER. Edited January 2, 2012 by Aurinax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Nerf operatives! Hell yeah brah! After my 4 k opener on no expertise targets that aren't even 50? I was instantly taunted and put out sweet 1 k-2k dmg crits. That was with adrenal, trinket and warzone buff. Was INCREDIBLE. Guild was Vodka on The Fatman. Obviously they have figured out pvp in this game. Stack tanks/heals and dps that can taunt/guard? Win like Charlie Sheen. Should be a fun game 6 months from now. What is the only class that can guard/taunt, put out good dmg and interupt healers better then anyone else? Expect to see a lot of them... Tip: It isn't a class that people are calling for nerfs on lol. Edited January 2, 2012 by biowareftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knifewrench Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'll be here when you get surprised by a scoundrel/operative and you suddenly change your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 imperial ops could not hurt tanks ... news at 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) imperial ops could not hurt tanks ... news at 11. When trying to be witty? Get the faction right and learn to read. BTW. My char name? Liu-Kang. Server: The Fatman. In my gear, I do 6.8 k openers on no expertise people with 3 buffs stacked on openers. Guild played against. Vodka. The second anything "rated" or "competitive" in this game is introduced, people will take the easiest, most assured path to victory. That includes tanks, heals and dps that can taunt or guard. It doesn't include dps sorcs/sages, or dps specced scoundrels/ops, two classes that will be absolutely worthless. Edited January 2, 2012 by biowareftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Simple respec healing problem solved. Edited January 2, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kordoyn Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 scoundrel/trooper combo would be a decent counter to try against tank/healer. Guard only works within 15 meters, trooper harpoons tank away(3second immobilize, followed by a freeze nade), scoundrel shanks healer. They are now too far apart for taunt, or guard to work, and scoundrel gets a good 12 seconds on the healer alone (even with a cc break). More than enough time to get him down low enough to finish off even with the guard returning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Simple respec healing problem solved. Again what is your point? My point is any dps that can't guard/taunt is pointless in premade vs premade pvp and that the majority of complaining on this board is completely baseless. Your point is??? All classes that can heal should heal and their dps specs being worthless is working as intended? This argument goes out the window when tank specs that can dps are the best "dps specs" in premade vs premade. Taunt/guard is the most broken thing in this game. It is worse then stacking healers was in WoW in rated battlegrounds. What am I saying? If you are complaining about dps in this game "doing too much damage" or healing be bad? You are out of your mind. Expect to see all heals/tank dps specs and tanks in any competitive pvp. There is no answer to it. There is no way to beat it, unless you do the same and stack shadows/assassins to interupt the heals (they are the best at it), while also providing guard/taunts. Edited January 2, 2012 by biowareftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakarn Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) As people realize just how good a well played tank can be all complaints about burst will be replaced by complaints about immortal tanks. Similarly DPS specced tanks can be damn near as resilient to damage as the main spec tanks. More vulnerable to focus firing but they do far, far more damage. I predict a transiton of the following: Mass Tanks/Healers -> Tanks/Tanking DPS/Healers -> Tanks/Tanking DPS/DPS/Healers The cost will come at the expense of the healers. Simply put, tanks and tanking DPS mitigate so much damage healers are not as necessary, and DPS burst healers and other tanks down insanely fast if they focus fire. Edited January 2, 2012 by Bakarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 They need to nerf guard in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakarn Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Guard has a range of 15m. It's relatively trivial to seperate a tank and their healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcerberus Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) a pure tank/healer team in competitive PvP is the most stupid thing I've ever heard, unless by competitive you mean double premade vs full pug. thing is, the team with tanks/healers wont be able to kill absolutly anyone, their DPS potential is in the negatives even when focus firing. a good balanced premade with decent DPSers will knockback/cc the tanks outside guard range and proceed to mercilessly wipe the floor with the healers in 3 global cooldowns. You only need a single tank proficient at guard swapping and a single decent healer to negate anything the enemy tank/healer duos can do. so please, before you give us any advice, stop being terribad. your super team only works against pugs, and you dont really need a lot of theorycrafting to pugstar... Edited January 2, 2012 by blackcerberus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Guard has a range of 15m. It's relatively trivial to seperate a tank and their healer. I don't know about that. In objective based capture and hold where you are all standing on a node or a door? You will never leave the area anyways. Am I saying it needs nerfed? Not atm. I am saying if they nerf "dps specs" the problem will only become larger. Does it need adjusted if competive pvp with gear rewards is introduced? Definately. Any premade not doing it would have no chance against a premade who does. For those thinking it wouldn't happen? Have you played competitive pvp before? People will reroll a class at the drop of the hat. When a strategy or comp is op that is literally half the teams or more you faced in arena in WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 a pure tank/healer team in competitive PvP is the most stupid thing I've ever heard, unless by competitive you mean double premade vs full pug. thing is, the team with tanks/healers wont be able to kill absolutly anyone, their DPS potential is in the negatives even when focus firing. a good balanced premade with decent DPSers will knockback the healers outside guard range and proceed to recklessly wipe the floor with the healers in 3 global cooldowns. You only need a single tank proficient at guard swapping and a single decent healer to negate anything the enemy tank/healer duos can do. so please, before you give us any advice, stop being terribad. your super team only works against pugs, and you dont really need a lot of theorycrafting to pugstar... Insert shadow/assasssin. They do as much overall dps as anyone, can guard and taunt and interupt a healer better then any class in the game. This isn't "theorycrafting". It is already happening. The only "dps specs" they are running is assassins/shadows. Everyone else is a healer or tank minus a few focus specced guardians/jugs wearing a shield generator with cleave spec. The "pure tanks" are almost all powertechs and just deathgrip a "get cleaved target" to the group who is standing on the node/door. Terribad... Sure thing bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyPete Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 This is what was going on in WAR, and in RIFT. Damage reduction is too high, but only when in a premade where you can coordinate with other people. The problem with this is that the majority of people don't want to have to play in a premade to play pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blurps Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 They need to nerf guard in pvp. Well, no. The Guard/Taunt mechanics or something similar are necessary for tanks to be useful in PvP. Necessary for actual tanks that is, hence the damage reduction should probably scale with investment into the tanking tree. It's not Guard/Taunt that's over the top, it's having 100% Guard/Taunt effectiveness while doing DPS class damage and still being pretty survivable that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakarn Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The trick when you're dealing with said DPS specced tanks is you just focus the tank and they die in, like, seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicalZero Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 So let me get this straight. You're crying because you can't, on your own, deal almost 7k damage in one attack to a guarded healer? A guarded healer being, by definition, two classes working together. Learn to assist. You can get through guard by just bruteforcing and locking down the healer, it's impossible to heal through sustained high damage on yourself unless you're dealing with complete clowns who can't interrupt. If they have another healer supporting them, punt the tank and burst. Unfortunately for you, both of these things require a modicum of teamwork and communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 So let me get this straight, you're level 50 with a premade and and you lost to a premade of level 30's? I mean I could MAYBE see that happening if you were half asleep and you let them cap objectives. Otherwise, nope. It's your fault, you suck. Low level tanks are incredibly easy to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furyofwar Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Its official every single thing in the game has now been declared OP on these forums. The entire lot of the QQ'ers are now considered mentally retarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Well, no. The Guard/Taunt mechanics or something similar are necessary for tanks to be useful in PvP. Necessary for actual tanks that is, hence the damage reduction should probably scale with investment into the tanking tree. It's not Guard/Taunt that's over the top, it's having 100% Guard/Taunt effectiveness while doing DPS class damage and still being pretty survivable that is. Agreed. Tanks should be viable. Tanks who put out as much dmg as pures? They should have to invest in the tank tree for guard/taunts to be effective. Otherwise you are literally going to see only one class as dps in any competitive ranked pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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