Zones Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I've been saying it over and over again for several pages, are you blind or just not reading my posts? That doesn't mean there still aren't people saying REALLY silly things in this thread repeatedly. I'm not optimistic enough to believe you understand why Reid didn't communicate this well. At all. All you've been doing is refusing to acknowledge that exploiting was happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Actually, no I haven't been reading your posts since I haven't been conversing with you. Way to be incredibly rude though; I'm sure you get positive replies all the time that way. I'm sorry, but what the hell? You're the one who came in and asked a question that could easily be answered by paying attention to the discussion you're taking part in. I swear to god, I feel like I'm literally slipping into insanity while I'm on these boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) All you've been doing is refusing to acknowledge that exploiting was happening. I'm now convinced you haven't read more than two or three lines of each post I made and fully comprehended it, because I've been saying WAY more than that. In fact, I haven't been saying that I was just saying the way it was phrased it appeared that Reid was saying by camping these chests just a little too much it was exploit. Then people defended the idea that farming too much is exploiting the game, which was bizarre as hell. Edited January 3, 2012 by Excedrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdatik Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm sorry, but what the hell? You're the one who came in and asked a question that could easily be answered by paying attention to the discussion you're taking part in. I swear to god, I feel like I'm literally slipping into insanity while I'm on these boards. You pointed out the exact reason why people were getting banned, by exploiting the way the chests respawn. Several people in this thread refuse to realize this. All I did was simply point out the exploit in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbefrier Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Did you get a warning? If not then keep doing what you are doing. your missing the point i dont want to leave up to the whims of some GM whose criteria for breaking the TOS could change depending on his mood. i want predefined limits so i will not have any chance of breaking the TOS. Is this too much to ask? i dont want to take a chance that what i might consider normal behavior in an MMO, bioware might consider "exploiting" or "gold farming" even if its just a warning i would like to know what restrictions i have as a player without having to guess and hope i don't get in trouble. most people now are still leveling with no thought of farming or camping known sources of fat loots. what happens when this starts happening in even bigger numbers, is bioware going to ban these people in the name of a balanced economy too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) your missing the point i dont want to leave up to the whims of some GM whose criteria for breaking the TOS could change depending on his mood. i want predefined limits so i will not have any chance of breaking the TOS. Is this too much to ask? i dont want to take a chance that what i might consider normal behavior in an MMO, bioware might consider "exploiting" or "gold farming" even if its just a warning i would like to know what restrictions i have as a player without having to guess and hope i don't get in trouble. most people now are still leveling with no thought of farming or camping known sources of fat loots. what happens when this starts happening in even bigger numbers, is bioware going to ban these people in the name of a balanced economy too? Yes, this is apparently too much to ask for. "I know it when I see it." Edited January 3, 2012 by Excedrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingoperson Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm not encouraged when you're basically telling me the rules depend on the whims of the person enforcing them. In modern legal systems you still have a series of checks that are way more complex than an appeals process that kicks the case back to the same entity. The rules have depended partly on the whims of the person enforcing them in every MMO ever in existence. A more commonly used term for 'whims' is 'subjective judgement' as the term 'whims' have connotations of irrelevance and irrationality. I welcome you to this world, since it seems to be the first time you play one. Welcome to MMOs! You also lack the basis to assert that there isn't an appeals process. There isn't one stated, but that doesn't mean one doesn't exist, as the contrary isn't stated either. Common sense points to the most likely existence of at least an informal one, since there is nothing that physically requires actions to be irreversible and customer service would still open your emails and consider the content within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zones Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 your missing the point i dont want to leave up to the whims of some GM whose criteria for breaking the TOS could change depending on his mood. i want predefined limits so i will not have any chance of breaking the TOS. Is this too much to ask? i dont want to take a chance that what i might consider normal behavior in an MMO, bioware might consider "exploiting" or "gold farming" even if its just a warning i would like to know what restrictions i have as a player without having to guess and hope i don't get in trouble. most people now are still leveling with no thought of farming or camping known sources of fat loots. what happens when this starts happening in even bigger numbers, is bioware going to ban these people in the name of a balanced economy too? You seem confused or guilty. I will never do anything to fear violating the TOS. Why are you concerned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskachig Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 If the players were exploiting wpvp rules that is clearly an exploit - and BioWare should adjust that part of the game with a patch as well. Unfortunately the OP doesn't say anything of the sort, and makes it seem like they were temp-banned for simple camping. It would be nice if someone on the team would weigh in with a clarification - clearly knowledge of the exploit is 'in the wild' already so secrecy at this point is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 your missing the point i dont want to leave up to the whims of some GM whose criteria for breaking the TOS could change depending on his mood. i want predefined limits so i will not have any chance of breaking the TOS. Is this too much to ask? i dont want to take a chance that what i might consider normal behavior in an MMO, bioware might consider "exploiting" or "gold farming" even if its just a warning i would like to know what restrictions i have as a player without having to guess and hope i don't get in trouble. most people now are still leveling with no thought of farming or camping known sources of fat loots. what happens when this starts happening in even bigger numbers, is bioware going to ban these people in the name of a balanced economy too? Stay out of lvl 50 areas at lvl 20 and you should be good to go. Seriously they didnt even warn very many people. You are fine. They will spell out exactly what the deal is because then everyone would be doing it. So you will just have to be happy knowing that as long as you play the game as intended you will be fine. Start moving into grey areas you might be asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskachig Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 You seem confused or guilty. I will never do anything to fear violating the TOS. Why are you concerned? People like to know what their rights are - in an arbitrary system like this, or in real life. It makes sense, as many folks invest a lot of effort and time into their chars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Yes, this is apparently too much to ask for. "I know it when I see it." This kind of stuff is taken on a case by case basis. There are no steadfast rules. Again for the 1000th time just play the game as intended. You know you arent supposed to be in a lvl 50 area at lvl 20 looting stuff. It doesnt take a genius to figure this stuff out. play the game as intended you will be fine. They are never going to say "this is a steadfast rule for everyone". It is as I said a case by case thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KetMalice Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 So if I camp a boss and kill him over and over and take over my servers economy I am going to be banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaStingerx Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Thank you Mr Reid. This type of moderation is what's missing from other quality MMO's. I must say it has been nice to play a game without seeing spam non stop. Keep up the great work. DaStinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 So if I camp a boss and kill him over and over and take over my servers economy I am going to be banned? Where did you read that? For pete's sake are people really this confused about the rules? If you can kill the boss then fine kill it over and over. Also noone was banned except people selling gold. So I dont get your question at all. Did you even read what the mod/dev whatever he is wrote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingoperson Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 If the players were exploiting wpvp rules that is clearly an exploit - and BioWare should adjust that part of the game with a patch as well. Unfortunately the OP doesn't say anything of the sort, and makes it seem like they were temp-banned for simple camping. It would be nice if someone on the team would weigh in with a clarification - clearly knowledge of the exploit is 'in the wild' already so secrecy at this point is silly. To the best of my knowledge: * The planet Ilum is designed in mobs and quests for level 50s. It had an area that didn't have mobs placed. It did however have slicing nodes that you could slice above 340-or-so in skill. * The planet is also part of an end-game zone where Empire and Republic can take 'control' of the planet by capturing a point. It has been reported that both sides basically took turns capturing this, for unrelated quest reasons. When that happens it forced the slicing nodes to respawn, hence quicker than regular slicing nodes. * Some players created characters, built up slicing and went to this area at the earliest level where they cashed the lv50 lockboxes and augments. * A very small number of players basically had their lv10 characters sit there 24/7 and slice the continously respawning lv50 nodes, making extremely huge gains. Those that have done this received temp-bans but have kept the money. According to one post you could easily make 40k in 15 minutes, so we're probably talking millions. * Apart from confirmed goldsellers, nobody else received temp or perm bans or warnings. Not even for: A) visiting Ilum, B) exploring Ilum, C) opening a small number of slicing nodes on Ilum at level 20, D) doing anything but farming the lv50 nodes with great regularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KetMalice Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Where did you read that? For pete's sake are people really this confused about the rules? If you can kill the boss then fine kill it over and over. Also noone was banned except people selling gold. So I dont get your question at all. Did you even read what the mod/dev whatever he is wrote? Yeah bud I did read it... "they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huhn Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 You seem confused or guilty. I will never do anything to fear violating the TOS. Why are you concerned? It has nothing to do with guilt and everything to do with setting defined limits. "you can totally go there low level and farm if you want, but there is a point where its not okay, except we aren't going to tell you what that point is." You see nothing wrong with this? IF there was an exploit involved , they need to tell us so we can actively avoid doing it. If it is just some arbitrary limit to farming, than we need to know that too. Being this vague is simply not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zones Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 People like to know what their rights are - in an arbitrary system like this, or in real life. It makes sense, as many folks invest a lot of effort and time into their chars. Stop acting like you're up and going to get banned for no reason. These people got actioned for exploiting, you're acting like people were just suspended at random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monegames Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 This kind of stuff is taken on a case by case basis. There are no steadfast rules. Again for the 1000th time just play the game as intended. You know you arent supposed to be in a lvl 50 area at lvl 20 looting stuff. It doesnt take a genius to figure this stuff out. play the game as intended you will be fine. They are never going to say "this is a steadfast rule for everyone". It is as I said a case by case thing. actually the OP said that they not care that they were level 20 or what ever in a 50 zone looting things just that they were excessively camping a chest that spawns to get cash. we just want to know what "excessively" means. were they exploiting to get the chest to respawn faster or were they just staying there for extended periods. what the rule is and when it is crossed is all i am after. if it was just camping it for extended periods then that seems to be overstepping to me and i would prolly cancel my sub. if it was an exploit to that respawned the chest then im fine with that. but people that were not involved in the incidents saying which it was and having no first hand knowledge do not convince me of what was happening. either someone from bio or one of the people that were suspended giving an answer would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phadian_gess Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 That's not the point. They were solely there to EXPLOIT the economy and make bank. Any normal gamer isn't going to just mosey on into Illum when they hit 400 Slicing; seriously, they aren't. ^this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForcetotheMAX Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 This game is no where near to perfect. IMHO it is fine to farm gold if your toon makes normal progression, but if all the account is doing is camping the chests at a low level, they should be banned because it is probably a gold seller. Farming gold is just another way to fund our toons, like any of the collection skills. Basically it comes down to MODERATION, and how you use the extra coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phadian_gess Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 we just want to know what "excessively" means. were they exploiting to get the chest to respawn faster or were they just staying there for extended periods. Considering it was a temp ban id say they were exploiting the respawn AND staying there for extended periods. thats the only logical conclusion i can come to about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monegames Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 ^this then what would they do with 400 slicing? go to a place that has lesser paying nodes, when the ones on ilum are less camped and do not have mobs in certain areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombull Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm quite pleased to see BioWare on top of the credit-farming and game exploit issues. Good work. Please keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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