Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Reedful]

Did the guy miss that I played RTS and FPS at tournaments? I am not saying that I don't like the style of combat in this game, I'm saying it isn't consistent or reliable. YouTube: professional WC3 replays. YouTube: Professional CS:S tournament footage. Watch any super popular WoW PvP video. You'll notice a trend, you know, the fact that all of those games have reliable, responsive ways to interact with the players around you. There is no way to know that my character is going to dodge three times in a row and I won't be able to cast until that is complete. There is no way to know that even though my exact keystrokes were: Tab, 4 I will still leap to the target I had before I pressed tab. What about that takes getting used to, unless you're just getting used to it being broken?

 

--

 

I keep having these conversations with people and they all keep saying, "well go play WoW then." I am going to go play WoW again. In fact, I am going to go play WoW again with 10 million of my friends. The only reason I can even interact with you is the month I got for buying the game. Why not spend that time helping other people not make the mistake I made in investing time in this terribly coded single-player fiasco? Keep bringing up the 1 to 1.5 million subscribers this game has. Keep putting this game right there in the same category as Rift, Aion and EVE online, you know.. where it belongs.

 

You really don't recognize the PvP/combat system in this game as being absolutely terrible. It isn't even like we're being too harsh. The combat in this game is just terribly coded. The game has major balance issues otherwise but there aren't a whole lot of extended threads about how certain things are too powerful because people like the ones propagating this thread are smart enough to know a game will have problems like that on release.

 

It is upsetting that the game was sold to me in this condition. It just doesn't work. Your character doesn't do what you tell it to do which I feel like is an implied feature.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zoggel
Rude

[Lhaim]

Y'all should get a survey regarding swtor per email. Fill it out please, you can give feedback on how you feel about the combat (rate it) at the end.

[Dynafrack]

Did the guy miss that I played RTS and FPS at tournaments? I am not saying that I don't like the style of combat in this game, I'm saying it isn't consistent or reliable. YouTube: professional WC3 replays. YouTube: Professional CS:S tournament footage. Watch any super popular WoW PvP video. You'll notice a trend, you know, the fact that all of those games have reliable, responsive ways to interact with the players around you. There is no way to know that my character is going to dodge three times in a row and I won't be able to cast until that is complete. There is no way to know that even though my exact keystrokes were: Tab, 4 I will still leap to the target I had before I pressed tab. What about that takes getting used to, unless you're just getting used to it being broken?

 

--

 

I keep having these conversations with people and they all keep saying, "well go play WoW then." I am going to go play WoW again. In fact, I am going to go play WoW again with 10 million of my friends. The only reason I can even interact with you is the month I got for buying the game. Why not spend that time helping other people not make the mistake I made in investing time in this terribly coded single-player fiasco? Keep bringing up the 1 to 1.5 million subscribers this game has. Keep putting this game right there in the same category as Rift, Aion and EVE online, you know.. where it belongs.

 

You really don't recognize the PvP/combat system in this game as being absolutely terrible. It isn't even like we're being too harsh. The combat in this game is just terribly coded. The game has major balance issues otherwise but there aren't a whole lot of extended threads about how certain things are too powerful because people like the ones propagating this thread are smart enough to know a game will have problems like that on release.

 

It is upsetting that the game was sold to me in this condition. It just doesn't work. Your character doesn't do what you tell it to do which I feel like is an implied feature.

 

l0lz

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zoggel
Edited Quote

[Jinzouningen]

I'm so disappointed its a shame. Before i read this i actually thought it was MY pc. Now i see that its not all me. Currently using Athlon x2 64 5000 4 gigs ram, Geforce 8800gts 640 and i purchased a new mobo with an Athlon II x4 640 and 8gigs of ddr3 1333mhz ram. Which will crossfire and be a huge jump for ME, but i'm not upset about making the purchase as i am about the game becoming let down. I love the story and the interactivity in everything but the bugs just shouldnt be this bad. Had to dig through the forums to find out i had to fool the game into thinking my OS is XP instead of win7 to get a perfomance boost. (which worked btw) I know me and the folks i played that other mmo with were anticipating this for atleast a yr. But smooth gameplay aka quality is where its at. I know everyone who worked on this game worked their butts off and put their hearts into it but even before the first month subscription fees are about to come in people are bailing. A bug or 2 is to be expected and fixes quickly there after but i hate the fact that i'm looking forward to Planetside 2 so i can stop suffering through fp's with the delayed reactions. (Im a combat med trooper btw, which i love) Anyway i hope for their sake theyre seriously working on these problems and fast because no matter how involved the story is, no ones gonna pay a monthly for a "lemon" (as one poster put it) of an mmo. just my 2 cents. thx

[Shuriko]

kind of curious on how many threads we will see of this b4 its fixed:p

[Lmaonade]

Did the guy miss that I played RTS and FPS at tournaments? I am not saying that I don't like the style of combat in this game, I'm saying it isn't consistent or reliable. YouTube: professional WC3 replays. YouTube: Professional CS:S tournament footage. Watch any super popular WoW PvP video. You'll notice a trend, you know, the fact that all of those games have reliable, responsive ways to interact with the players around you. There is no way to know that my character is going to dodge three times in a row and I won't be able to cast until that is complete. There is no way to know that even though my exact keystrokes were: Tab, 4 I will still leap to the target I had before I pressed tab. What about that takes getting used to, unless you're just getting used to it being broken?

 

--

 

I keep having these conversations with people and they all keep saying, "well go play WoW then." I am going to go play WoW again. In fact, I am going to go play WoW again with 10 million of my friends. The only reason I can even interact with you is the month I got for buying the game. Why not spend that time helping other people not make the mistake I made in investing time in this terribly coded single-player fiasco? Keep bringing up the 1 to 1.5 million subscribers this game has. Keep putting this game right there in the same category as Rift, Aion and EVE online, you know.. where it belongs.

 

You really don't recognize the PvP/combat system in this game as being absolutely terrible. It isn't even like we're being too harsh. The combat in this game is just terribly coded. The game has major balance issues otherwise but there aren't a whole lot of extended threads about how certain things are too powerful because people like the ones propagating this thread are smart enough to know a game will have problems like that on release.

 

It is upsetting that the game was sold to me in this condition. It just doesn't work. Your character doesn't do what you tell it to do which I feel like is an implied feature.

 

i love you

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zoggel
Edited Quote

[Jinzouningen]

I love this game, having a absolute blast but i would love to see this improved

 

^^^^^^!!!! this summed up what i said..without being like 10 paragraphs long

[Chado_]

I know very little about the problem.

 

I do know that I'm running the game on a 5 year old 8800GT, and combat is rock solid for me In terms of responsivness. What's the basis for the claim that it has nothing to do with latency, rendering problems or client configuration?

 

I'm no fanboi.. just genuinely curious.

[Tinkersw]

Did the guy miss that I played RTS and FPS at tournaments? I am not saying that I don't like the style of combat in this game, I'm saying it isn't consistent or reliable. YouTube: professional WC3 replays. YouTube: Professional CS:S tournament footage. Watch any super popular WoW PvP video. You'll notice a trend, you know, the fact that all of those games have reliable, responsive ways to interact with the players around you. There is no way to know that my character is going to dodge three times in a row and I won't be able to cast until that is complete. There is no way to know that even though my exact keystrokes were: Tab, 4 I will still leap to the target I had before I pressed tab. What about that takes getting used to, unless you're just getting used to it being broken?

 

--

 

I keep having these conversations with people and they all keep saying, "well go play WoW then." I am going to go play WoW again. In fact, I am going to go play WoW again with 10 million of my friends. The only reason I can even interact with you is the month I got for buying the game. Why not spend that time helping other people not make the mistake I made in investing time in this terribly coded single-player fiasco? Keep bringing up the 1 to 1.5 million subscribers this game has. Keep putting this game right there in the same category as Rift, Aion and EVE online, you know.. where it belongs.

 

You really don't recognize the PvP/combat system in this game as being absolutely terrible. It isn't even like we're being too harsh. The combat in this game is just terribly coded. The game has major balance issues otherwise but there aren't a whole lot of extended threads about how certain things are too powerful because people like the ones propagating this thread are smart enough to know a game will have problems like that on release.

 

It is upsetting that the game was sold to me in this condition. It just doesn't work. Your character doesn't do what you tell it to do which I feel like is an implied feature.

 

Yes this man maybe a bit harsh, however everything he states is fact.

 

Reedful question for you .... I played over 5 years of WOW and then got bored. I said I would never go back. However I am currently downloading it again. My question to you...

if there was no WOW what would you be playing now?

 

sorry Xcore for this being off topic.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zoggel
Edited Quote

[oflow]

I know very little about the problem.

 

I do know that I'm running the game on a 5 year old 8800GT, and combat is rock solid for me In terms of responsivness. What's the basis for the claim that it has nothing to do with latency, rendering problems or client configuration?

 

I'm no fanboi.. just genuinely curious.

 

 

 

read the first post and watch the videos.

 

There are actually multiple issues. Theres ability lag when you activate an ability and it takes forever to activate, but the server side mobs are still working in real time, so for instance interrupts are a joke to time between waiting for animations and ability lag.

 

example:

 

 

Notice he clicks heal and theres a noticable at least 0.5 sec pause before the cast bar even starts moving.

 

Then theres an issue with abilities used after you use an ability off the GCD not working. The skill clicks, it uses the resources, resets the GCD but does nothing. Crippling for melee classes and some ranged classes with cover.

 

examples:

 

 

 

Theres also and issue where if you click an ability off the GCD more than once the character will just 'double pump' and not full complete the move. This happens all the time on my Knight when I use Blade Storm.

 

Even though the creator of this vid says hes not experiencing the issue any more, I know I just finished pvping for a couple of hours and experienced it on many abilities on my Knight, like force push, force sweep, riposte

example:

 

Edited January 3, 2012 by oflow

[jsdcaedus]

I'm willing to bet vital and delicate body parts that all these complainers are people who have spent more time on WoW than time in the company of the opposite sex.

 

I'm also willing to bet that if you took a poll of only two questions, 'have you ever played WoW?', and 'what complaints do you have about the game?', all the non-WoWers will have immeasureably less complaints.

 

Like many people said in this post before me, give them some time to fix some of these things. You can't fairly compare a game that has been out for 3 weeks to one that has been out for seven or eight years.

 

All that being said (and resaid, I'm sure), my original beef with this post was the cries of imminent doom from the OPer and all the other WoW trolls. You compare this game to WoW, Everquest, and all those other similar MMO's, but you forget one very important thing.

 

Those games are Dungeons and Dragons, this is freaking STAR WARS. People love Star Wars, it is quite possibly the biggest media driven machine in the world.

 

Now, I won't say that the game is free of bugs and glitches. I made two seperate customer service tickets today about game issues, but that is how things are going to improve. Does the game need improvements? Sure. Does it feel like it was slightly rushed to be released? Possibly. The thing you have to remember is that finding small glitches in a game this massive and expansive is like finding a needle in a million haystacks, but when you have millions of people looking, you're gonna find some needles.

 

Have some faith in the people at BioWare and stop whining so much. They know what they're doing, you don't. Pulling the sensationalist news media tactic of trying to scare them into rushing a fix for every little problem with the cries of a doomsday exodous is just going to make a lousier product in the long run.

 

Bioware, I commend you and trust that you are all doing what is necessary to fix some of these issues, I'm certainly not going anywhere. And if all the whiny trolls leave, all the better honestly.

[Zydrate]

I know very little about the problem.

 

I do know that I'm running the game on a 5 year old 8800GT, and combat is rock solid for me In terms of responsivness. What's the basis for the claim that it has nothing to do with latency, rendering problems or client configuration?

 

I'm no fanboi.. just genuinely curious.

 

You must be new to video games.

 

If you can't understand the issues with this combat then you are either completely new to this style of game, or you are complete too awful to notice the problem.

 

This issue is real, and really REALLY annoying. I quit WoW long ago, I don't like the development, story or direction, but one thing you cannot dispute is that WoW's combat system is great in terms of response time, animations and overall effectiveness.

 

I want this game to be awesome. I like the stories, I like how it looks, I like space combat, but I cannot bear logging in and trying to quest or pvp with instant abilities that take 1.5-2.5 seconds to actually go off. It is simply not enjoyable.

 

And no, it has nothing to do with latency or rendering, it is the way combat is coded. The entire system needs to be revamped and updated... this is the problem--Bioware has a HUGE task ahead of them and a ticking clock... I was there for AoC, War AND Rift's launches and in none of them did I see such a backlash of player disappointment... think about that, and think about where those games are.

 

Get your **** together BW.

[JediMasterShake]

Did the guy miss that I played RTS and FPS at tournaments? I am not saying that I don't like the style of combat in this game, I'm saying it isn't consistent or reliable. YouTube: professional WC3 replays. YouTube: Professional CS:S tournament footage. Watch any super popular WoW PvP video. You'll notice a trend, you know, the fact that all of those games have reliable, responsive ways to interact with the players around you. There is no way to know that my character is going to dodge three times in a row and I won't be able to cast until that is complete. There is no way to know that even though my exact keystrokes were: Tab, 4 I will still leap to the target I had before I pressed tab. What about that takes getting used to, unless you're just getting used to it being broken?

 

--

 

I keep having these conversations with people and they all keep saying, "well go play WoW then." I am going to go play WoW again. In fact, I am going to go play WoW again with 10 million of my friends. The only reason I can even interact with you is the month I got for buying the game. Why not spend that time helping other people not make the mistake I made in investing time in this terribly coded single-player fiasco? Keep bringing up the 1 to 1.5 million subscribers this game has. Keep putting this game right there in the same category as Rift, Aion and EVE online, you know.. where it belongs.

 

You really don't recognize the PvP/combat system in this game as being absolutely terrible. It isn't even like we're being too harsh. The combat in this game is just terribly coded. The game has major balance issues otherwise but there aren't a whole lot of extended threads about how certain things are too powerful because people like the ones propagating this thread are smart enough to know a game will have problems like that on release.

 

It is upsetting that the game was sold to me in this condition. It just doesn't work. Your character doesn't do what you tell it to do which I feel like is an implied feature.

 

Harsh but true.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zoggel
Edited Quote

[roocey]

While it is likely been repeated dozens of times throughout this thread, I shall repeat the following statement anyways. Any attempts to balance or otherwise alter combat (PvE & PvP) is currently pointless. It is nigh-impossible to tell the maximum effects of each Advanced Class at this stage due to this issue.

 

Personally, I have very few issues while soloing or in a group phase. However, ability delay frequently becomes a crippling problem while engaged in a Warzone. This is likely because I attempt to play with the utmost focus while PvPing - when I'm leveling I likely have these issues but notice them far less due to a lack of general importance and immediate focus (on my part).

 

I can only imagine this being a truly crippling issue at high-end PvP and PvE. Computer and connection specs have proven to be irrelevant thus far and those who don't have this issue don't seem to have any particular outlying reasons. Because of this it will undoubtedly be a difficult problem to squash entirely - but I must echo the hundreds of other posts saying the same thing here now: please prioritize this issue, BioWare. Beyond this issue and (less-so) the severely outdated UI, SWTOR has a lot of potential - don't let horrid ability delay usurp that.

 

EDIT:

 

Those games are Dungeons and Dragons, this is freaking STAR WARS. People love Star Wars, it is quite possibly the biggest media driven machine in the world.

 

As many of us know all too well, the Star Wars IP is hardly an immunity to anything. It will insure initial and even later interest so long as BioWare fixes a handful of things now and not two years from now.

Edited January 3, 2012 by roocey

[Reedful]

Why not just get a sick Yoda poster and look at that for a few hours a day? It is probably about the same in terms of responsiveness.

[jsdcaedus]

To whoever it is who's sig is something stupid about Sith Lightning being a rip off of Shaman lightning, please go back to WoW.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Emperor was shocking Luke Skywalker with his force lightning long before the concept of your cute little WoW toon was ever conceived.

[Corwingeorge]

Did the guy miss that I played RTS and FPS at tournaments? I am not saying that I don't like the style of combat in this game, I'm saying it isn't consistent or reliable. YouTube: professional WC3 replays. YouTube: Professional CS:S tournament footage. Watch any super popular WoW PvP video. You'll notice a trend, you know, the fact that all of those games have reliable, responsive ways to interact with the players around you. There is no way to know that my character is going to dodge three times in a row and I won't be able to cast until that is complete. There is no way to know that even though my exact keystrokes were: Tab, 4 I will still leap to the target I had before I pressed tab. What about that takes getting used to, unless you're just getting used to it being broken?

 

--

 

I keep having these conversations with people and they all keep saying, "well go play WoW then." I am going to go play WoW again. In fact, I am going to go play WoW again with 10 million of my friends. The only reason I can even interact with you is the month I got for buying the game. Why not spend that time helping other people not make the mistake I made in investing time in this terribly coded single-player fiasco? Keep bringing up the 1 to 1.5 million subscribers this game has. Keep putting this game right there in the same category as Rift, Aion and EVE online, you know.. where it belongs.

 

You really don't recognize the PvP/combat system in this game as being absolutely terrible. It isn't even like we're being too harsh. The combat in this game is just terribly coded. The game has major balance issues otherwise but there aren't a whole lot of extended threads about how certain things are too powerful because people like the ones propagating this thread are smart enough to know a game will have problems like that on release.

 

It is upsetting that the game was sold to me in this condition. It just doesn't work. Your character doesn't do what you tell it to do which I feel like is an implied feature.

 

i like u

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zoggel
Edited Quote

[Olzmo]

I'm willing to bet vital and delicate body parts that all these complainers are people who have spent more time on WoW than time in the company of the opposite sex.

 

I'm also willing to bet that if you took a poll of only two questions, 'have you ever played WoW?', and 'what complaints do you have about the game?', all the non-WoWers will have immeasureably less complaints.

 

Like many people said in this post before me, give them some time to fix some of these things. You can't fairly compare a game that has been out for 3 weeks to one that has been out for seven or eight years.

 

All that being said (and resaid, I'm sure), my original beef with this post was the cries of imminent doom from the OPer and all the other WoW trolls. You compare this game to WoW, Everquest, and all those other similar MMO's, but you forget one very important thing.

 

Those games are Dungeons and Dragons, this is freaking STAR WARS. People love Star Wars, it is quite possibly the biggest media driven machine in the world.

 

Now, I won't say that the game is free of bugs and glitches. I made two seperate customer service tickets today about game issues, but that is how things are going to improve. Does the game need improvements? Sure. Does it feel like it was slightly rushed to be released? Possibly. The thing you have to remember is that finding small glitches in a game this massive and expansive is like finding a needle in a million haystacks, but when you have millions of people looking, you're gonna find some needles.

 

Have some faith in the people at BioWare and stop whining so much. They know what they're doing, you don't. Pulling the sensationalist news media tactic of trying to scare them into rushing a fix for every little problem with the cries of a doomsday exodous is just going to make a lousier product in the long run.

 

Bioware, I commend you and trust that you are all doing what is necessary to fix some of these issues, I'm certainly not going anywhere. And if all the whiny trolls leave, all the better honestly.

What value does your delicate body parts have to you if you're giving the vital ones away anyway?

Edited January 3, 2012 by Olzmo

[oflow]

Why not just get a sick Yoda poster and look at that for a few hours a day? It is probably about the same in terms of responsiveness.

 

[Corwingeorge]

To whoever it is who's sig is something stupid about Sith Lightning being a rip off of Shaman lightning, please go back to WoW.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Emperor was shocking Luke Skywalker with his force lightning long before the concept of your cute little WoW toon was ever conceived.

 

jokes on u

[Bregah]

I'm starting to notice the ability delay in PvE now - at first it was only PvP that I noticed it (and it's absolutely garbage in PvP - insane delay sometimes), but maybe now I'm getting "better" with my abilities in PvE or something, I'm noticing things don't respond very well there, either - though still massively better than in warfronts.

[oflow]

lol Yes, some of the top coders in the business can't figure out how to program the Hero engine. LOL yeah ok. PLease go stand by the Professional WoW gamer >>> Over there.

 

Ya and if it was that easy it wouldnt still be broken the same way it was 4 months ago would it?

 

Fanboi line starts >>>>>>>>>>>> over there.

[JediMasterShake]

I'm willing to bet vital and delicate body parts that all these complainers are people who have spent more time on WoW than time in the company of the opposite sex.

 

Pandering. Useless.

 

I'm also willing to bet that if you took a poll of only two questions, 'have you ever played WoW?', and 'what complaints do you have about the game?', all the non-WoWers will have immeasureably less complaints.

 

WoW is the most successful MMO in the history of the world. It has impeccable game mechanics. SWTOR has lifted 90% of it's game DIRECTLY from WoW. If you cannot understand why people choose to compare the two games... I'm not sure what to say. Think harder.

 

Like many people said in this post before me, give them some time to fix some of these things. You can't fairly compare a game that has been out for 3 weeks to one that has been out for seven or eight years.

 

This is a valid point for many of the issues discussed on the forums. However, the issue of combat fluidity is something the game needed to launch with, as it's not something that can be tossed into the "we'll patch it after launch" bucket. There are many things that are acceptable to be tossed into that bucket - PvP brackets, broken nodes, even broken party/guild/ops chat. etc - combat fluidity and reliability of key presses is NOT one of them.

 

All that being said (and resaid, I'm sure), my original beef with this post was the cries of imminent doom from the OPer and all the other WoW trolls. You compare this game to WoW, Everquest, and all those other similar MMO's, but you forget one very important thing.

 

Those games are Dungeons and Dragons, this is freaking STAR WARS. People love Star Wars, it is quite possibly the biggest media driven machine in the world.

 

If SWG survived on the magic of the Star Wars universe alone, then certainly SWTOR will survive as well. I agree. However, it will still qualify as an abject failure of MMO design if the status quo is left as is.

 

Now, I won't say that the game is free of bugs and glitches. I made two seperate customer service tickets today about game issues, but that is how things are going to improve. Does the game need improvements? Sure. Does it feel like it was slightly rushed to be released? Possibly. The thing you have to remember is that finding small glitches in a game this massive and expansive is like finding a needle in a million haystacks, but when you have millions of people looking, you're gonna find some needles.

 

Don't conflate this with other issues on the forums. This is simply not a small glitch. This game will lose 50%-75% of its potential subs because of this lack of consistency in combat.

 

Have some faith in the people at BioWare and stop whining so much. They know what they're doing, you don't. Pulling the sensationalist news media tactic of trying to scare them into rushing a fix for every little problem with the cries of a doomsday exodous is just going to make a lousier product in the long run.

 

Actually, Bioware assuredly DOESN'T know what they're doing. Companies have been trying to make successful MMOs for years now, and most fail - spectacularly. It is very, very, very hard to do. Even companies with success in the MMO genre have failed.

 

 

Bioware, I commend you and trust that you are all doing what is necessary to fix some of these issues, I'm certainly not going anywhere. And if all the whiny trolls leave, all the better honestly.

We are not whiny trolls. I am sorry that I can't say the same about you. There are many smart, thoughtful people in this thread who wish the best for this game, but see it for what it is - a behemoth of story, with very little other substance to provide a seasoned MMO gamer.

 

And believe me and my "Joined November 2008" when I tell you that it pains me to say all of this. I was hoping for much, much, much more from this game. I will continue to vocalize the biggest issues is a clear and concise manner. All I can ask is for people like you to understand that we mean the best for the game, but more importantly the genre as a whole and the future of MMOs.

[Rasstavad]

This is me, still waiting for you to say something intelligent.

 

I played EQ, WoW (vanilla)... everything under the sun.

 

My client is just as responsive as anything short of CS.

 

"...If you can't understand the issues with this combat then you are either completely new to this style of game, or you are complete too awful to notice the problem."

 

It's OK. Not everybody is good at video games.

[jsdcaedus]

Zydrate, you only prove that the worst complainers are the worst douches. I wholeheartedly agreed that there are issues that need fixed. My main point was that it's absurd to start acting like if these issues aren't fixed the game will die, because the issues will be fixed and everything will be fine.

 

If the time it takes for the game to live up to your 100% expectations is too much, then move along. If you have something constructive to say, let the developers know.