Cover Mechanic is horrible

[Albytaps]

Cover mechanic is absolutely horrible like the title says.

 

I recently made an Imperial Agent and the cover system it's just so bad that I cant bare to play the class. Here are a few things I notice are just really bad...

 

1. Half the time you want to take cover on something there is only a green arrow there and it does not allow you to take cover. This is not on awkward objects... this is on normal objects where you should be able to take cover. It seems to happen more often when the ground is not 100% level. And no...I have an enemy targeted before the IA fanboys chime in.

 

This is annoying but the workaround is to move closer to the object.

 

2. Half the time you DO take cover you cannot activate any skills for a few seconds after as they will be instantly interrupted. If I roll into cover then cast Snipe it just randomly gets interrupted without me moving or anything hitting me. Then you need to start the induction all over again. This is extremely annoying because it happens so often.

 

This is a really bad bug that can end up in death. They need to work on this issue ASAP.

 

3. Sometimes you press the cover key and your character does nothing. The game says you are in cover but your abilities do not unlock. This is totally game breaking.

 

I haven't had this happen to me.

 

4. This is probably the most annoying issue I find. It's not really a bug but rather just VERY poor implementation. Sometimes the only cover you can find around a boss is right beside him where you surely do not want to take cover. But you are pretty much forced to as no matter where you look or stand, when you press cover you will roll into that spot. Basically when there's a place you can take cover where you dont want to, you are still forced to as there's no way to bypass it and just drop your shield. This is extremely annoying in some boss fights.

 

This really does suck. The only way around it is to run far enough away so that the cover doesn't land you there, or untarget the boss and use cover and then target again.

 

5. Sometimes I target a mob and go to take cover and I roll across the map into a pack of other mobs resulting in a death. This is just unacceptable. GET RID OF THE ENVIRONMENT COVER SYSTEM AS IT COMPLETELY RUINS THE CLASS. We know the developers take pride in their creations and will defend it to the end but this mechanic is just WAY too underpolished and needs to be completely revamped.

 

This sucks too. I always make sure I'm not going to roll into anything but it happens sometimes. IA's need to take time to view their surroundings, it makes leveling and engaging fights much longer than other classes.

 

Honestly, if I had it my way I'd get rid of all the stupid cover blocks and just have the drop shield only. The drop shield works flawlessly and I have not had a single issue with it. The only issues I have had are with actual environment cover locations and sometimes you are 100% forced to use them even if you dont want to.

 

Yea that could solve the problem, and as someone else said we can just use crouch instead... but it takes the fun out of the cover system. I hope they work on it and have it fixed in the near future.

 

My 2 cents on the IA cover mechanic. Fix it or change it drastically getting rid of the environmental cover locations. This feels like a really fun class when it works right, but that's very rare. Pretty much every pull something happens that should not be happening.

 

 

Our class quest that finishes Act 1 has a boss fight that is almost game breaking. The boss is on a platform that makes cover practically useless, and even standing up there you cannot "see" the target. You have to run around spamming regular attack until you hit him and then try your best to land something else before he moves. I was able to do it on the first try overleveled, but I imagine someone a few levels lower could have a harder time beating him. This needs to be looked into greatly as it's the worst of all the complaints you've mentioned rolled into one.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Albytaps

[GengisKahn]

If you are a operative you are a melee stealth class not a cover class. Yes you have cover but it is situationally optional, you are suppose to be in melee.

 

Only one of the three operative trees is a stealth melee class.

 

Dont speak about what you dont know a thing.

 

Cover is nto working fine. You can still do everything in the game DESPITE this mechanic not working properly, but dont confuse that with the mechanic working fine.

[GengisKahn]

Our class quest that finishes Act 1 has a boss fight that is almost game breaking. The boss is on a platform that makes cover practically useless, and even standing up there you cannot "see" the target. You have to run around spamming regular attack until you hit him and then try your best to land something else before he moves. I was able to do it on the first try overleveled, but I imagine someone a few levels lower could have a harder time beating him. This needs to be looked into greatly as it's the worst of all the complaints you've mentioned rolled into one.

 

Not only that.

 

That boss is in a bugged spot, meaning if you want to go up and engage him, most of the time it will say you cannot see him, even when you are near him, at the same level without anything between you.

 

I had to shot the boss where i could and then run down the stairs and fight him down the stairs, because of that bugged spot.

 

But that really is another problem, its not related to cover, its just a bugged spot where there happens to be a class boss over it.

[Melchiora]

Default keybinds:

 

Cover: F

Cover in Place: Shift-F

 

Both can be rebound in the key bindings page (unlike open ticket grumble). You may wish to switch them for ease of use.

 

If you want to use the abilities under P, Crouch seems to be the same as Cover in Place.

 

I agree to preferring the feel of flipping over behind cover, but cover in place gives me so much more control (engine boss of the Boarding Party flashpoint, for example).

[mojotele]

As operative i dont have icon for crouch, to replace cover, so your comment is out of picture, at best, i dare say, is dumb.

 

Well, actually you do have an icon for crouch. If you go to your abilities you'll see it under one of the tabs. I can't say which at the moment since I don't have the game in front of me.

[JetAten]

Like someone already said, if you are playing a Sniper cover shouldn't even be on your bar, Crouch should be. Once you get your shield you have no reason to use Cover. Operatives on the other hand, the cover mechanics can be a pain for those times you want to snipe something down before you go in to melee them.

[xNonphixionx]

I really think they should ditch the environmental cover mechanic entirely and give Imperial Agents a skill where they roll backwards some distance and put a drop shield up. Sort of like a blink...

 

Since I learned about crouch I have taken the "Take Cover" skill right off my hotbar. I just wish you could disable the green silouette too.

 

I stand by my thread title...Cover mechanic is HORRIBLE.

[emorr]

There is a bonus to being behind a physical cover. There is an additional check that occurs allowing some of the attacks to hit the cover object instead of the sniper/operative. You do not get this form of damage reduction with the portable shield alone. The mechanic isn't broken, you just need to understand when and where to use it.

[GengisKahn]

There is a bonus to being behind a physical cover. There is an additional check that occurs allowing some of the attacks to hit the cover object instead of the sniper/operative. You do not get this form of damage reduction with the portable shield alone. The mechanic isn't broken, you just need to understand when and where to use it.

 

It is broken when the mechanic sends you to a cover object which is behind the mob you are targetting, leaving you crouched with the mob BEHIND you.

 

It is broken when you are targetting one mob and the cover mechanic sends you to an object OUT OF YOUR SCREEN TO THE SIDE even when the camera maxed out and into ANOTHER pack of mobs.

 

It is broken when you are targetting a mob and the cover mechanic sends you to a place where you are out of los of the mob you are targetting.

 

The mechanic is severely broken when you have to do a 360% degree camera flip to make sure the stupid cover wont sent you into a stupid place before pulling.

 

Seriously, stop saying ********, the mechanic is severely broken.

[ClockworkBling]

I think there is an additional mechanic benefit to being behind natural cover. Some incoming attacks are blocked with the word "cover" popping up.

 

I would like to see this applied to the portable shield as well. After all, why have a shield at all if it isn't providing the cover? :-)

[JetAten]

I think there is an additional mechanic benefit to being behind natural cover. Some incoming attacks are blocked with the word "cover" popping up.

 

I would like to see this applied to the portable shield as well. After all, why have a shield at all if it isn't providing the cover? :-)

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen that same "cover" message pop up when I was behind the shield. I think maybe natural cover provides a larger bonus to the chance that an incoming attack will be blocked.

Edited January 3, 2012 by JetAten

[JetAten]

It is broken when the mechanic sends you to a cover object which is behind the mob you are targetting, leaving you crouched with the mob BEHIND you.

 

It is broken when you are targetting one mob and the cover mechanic sends you to an object OUT OF YOUR SCREEN TO THE SIDE even when the camera maxed out and into ANOTHER pack of mobs.

 

It is broken when you are targetting a mob and the cover mechanic sends you to a place where you are out of los of the mob you are targetting.

 

The mechanic is severely broken when you have to do a 360% degree camera flip to make sure the stupid cover wont sent you into a stupid place before pulling.

 

Seriously, stop saying ********, the mechanic is severely broken.

 

Its where you position your char, not the camera. I've figured that out. You have to approach the cover in the same direction to where the mobs are. You can't just spin the camera around. I actually found that going into 1st person makes it A LOT easier to get into the right cover position.

 

But that cancel thing is really frikken annoying. You have to wait a second or two in order for it to not interrupt you. I don't know if maybe its lag related or something. Like there's a delay between the server knowing you are in cover and out of cover.

[Fluhi]

Only one of the three operative trees is a stealth melee class.

 

Dont speak about what you dont know a thing.

 

Cover is nto working fine. You can still do everything in the game DESPITE this mechanic not working properly, but dont confuse that with the mechanic working fine.

 

Operatives are stealth and melee with the option of some range and cover but the main focus is stealth and melee via talents and operative only skills. You seem to have the miss conception that only concealment will ever use stealth. If you wanted to play a cover class then sniper is the class you want, it is not the focus of operative, though they can do it that is why it is situational.

[Fluhi]

I think there is an additional mechanic benefit to being behind natural cover. Some incoming attacks are blocked with the word "cover" popping up.

 

I would like to see this applied to the portable shield as well. After all, why have a shield at all if it isn't providing the cover? :-)

 

It already does. Natural cover = the same as portable cover or crouch. You don't get green cover shields icons from natural cover spots. You get them from a line of sight calculation based on if you are in any cover and a object between you and target. It just so happens that natural cover spot put you next to a object that will break the line of sight. So if you use portable cover the same way natural cover uses walls, boxes, etc you will get the same bonuses and not limited to the natural cover spots.

[Fluhi]

Quite obvious that it's not lag...

 

PTS patch notes quote:

 

 

 

Good they are fixing it, but it just goes to show you that you know nothing of your main class.

 

That is not even talking about the same thing i was talking about. That is the line of sight bug, how did you come up with that when i'm talking about the roll to and cover bar delay effect under server stress.

[Fluhi]

I'm operative and i'm no melee stealth class.

This maybe your playstyle, not mine, i'm lets say combat medic, i spent points in heal branch and ranged dmg branch, not in stealth, meaning i heal and do ranged dmg. This enables me to control 'battlefield' better, better heal.

So your advice is appreciated, but nevertheless, we talk about cover system, that suck.

 

You are entitled to use what ever play style you like, but that doesn't change the fact op's are melee and stealth based not just for concealment spec with the option to do ranged stuff which is more of thier gap closer in effect and alot less energy efficient. You get no bonuses to cover skills through trees and the passive operative abililty. Even lethality tree is melee as cull, shiv, hidden strike, diablitate, flashbang are all melee range 4-10m. Heal tree is only true ranged tree but that is all for healing which will be taking up most of your focus.

[emorr]

I don't have any of those problems because I know when to use crouch and I know when to use take cover. I don't take cover in the middle of a battle unless I know where I'm rolling to. If I'm not sure where I'm rolling, I crouch. However, when I want the line of sight bonus and I know what my surroundings are I take cover. Just because you are having problems with it doesn't mean it is broken. If what the op stated was the only way to get in cover to you use your snipe abilities then it would indeed be broken. With that said, the mechanic could be tweaked to be more useful and more user-friendly, however, the real issue is most people don't know about take cover in place ability (crouch). I personally find the take cover ability as a useful and helpful ability when used appropriately and I don't have issues with the mechanics because I understand its uses versus crouch.

[GengisKahn]

Its where you position your char, not the camera. I've figured that out. You have to approach the cover in the same direction to where the mobs are. You can't just spin the camera around. I actually found that going into 1st person makes it A LOT easier to get into the right cover position.

 

But that cancel thing is really frikken annoying. You have to wait a second or two in order for it to not interrupt you. I don't know if maybe its lag related or something. Like there's a delay between the server knowing you are in cover and out of cover.

 

Its not a problem of position of my char, its a problem that the cover system is stupid, meaning has no "intelligence".

 

If i'm here, looking at my target, there is no way that i want to spin into a position where i am giving my back to my target, ever. The cover system its so broken that doesn't realize that, and just sends you there.

 

Also, i will NEVER ever want to cover a place i'm not watching, so the cover system should never point a spot outside your camara.

 

And last, if im targeting a mob, i will never want to go cover where i cant shoot it, so places out of los of that mob should NOT be taken as an option.

 

These are the minimum concepts to be developed to start talking about a non broken cover mechanic, untill these concepts are implemented, cover will still be broken and would need a double check from the player to make sure cover wont sent you to a stupid place or just use the lame patch (that is not a solution) of using crouch instead of cover.

[GengisKahn]

Operatives are stealth and melee with the option of some range and cover but the main focus is stealth and melee via talents and operative only skills. You seem to have the miss conception that only concealment will ever use stealth. If you wanted to play a cover class then sniper is the class you want, it is not the focus of operative, though they can do it that is why it is situational.

 

I said only one tree is a melee stealth, and that is concealment.

 

Lethality is stealthy but not melee, lethality works at mid range mostly.

 

Medic is not melee either, and you will proobably not want to be meleeing your target.

 

So, again, only one tree is a melee stealth.

 

Cover is a core mechanic of the Imperial Agent class, only concealment is less prompted to use it, both lethality and medics have many uses for it.

 

You clearly dont know what you are talking about.

[dan_upright]

I agree that the cover system is horribly flawed, the best thing to do is use crouch and manually position yourself behind cover for the defense bonus.

[Bekkal]

 

Cover is a core mechanic of the Imperial Agent class, only concealment is less prompted to use it, both lethality and medics have many uses for it.

 

This is absolutely false. Lethality has no way to proc TA aside from Shiv, making it 100% necessary to be in or near melee range (<10 yards) for a majority of fights.

 

Medics should not be in cover in almost any circumstances. In fact, Medic/Concealment using Medic to proc TA and Concealment to spam Laceration is a fine leveling spec. End-game of course, almost all energy should be spent on direct heals.

 

ONLY Sniper gets real use of cover once ACs are chosen.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Bekkal

[Greyfeld]

I think the Cover mechanic is more of an awkward system for a lot of people than being broken. I do have a few ocaisional quibbles with it because it can be awkward at times but I won't say that it is broken. If the Cover mechanic is that much of a problem for you then move on and play another class because I don't think it will change to any large degree.

 

Yes, the mechanic is actually broken. There's a major lag issue when using it (I've had many instances where it'll take up to 1.5 seconds to activate, and even instances where using the ability will trigger the cooldown but never actually activate), there are problems with cover breaking channeled abilities (randomly get a message mid-channel saying that the target is not in line of sight), and other bugs that I personally haven't stumbled across that other people have already outlined here.

 

Hell, I found out right after I picked up my Sniper AC that Take Cover won't even activate when your Laze Target ability is on cooldown.

 

Using Crouch is a workaround for now, but the fact that Take Cover is so incredibly broken makes the IA suffer in pvp and any other situation where mobility is useful (or, heaven forbid, you need to take cover as an Operative, which doesn't have a drop-down shield).

Edited January 3, 2012 by Greyfeld

[Fluhi]

I said only one tree is a melee stealth, and that is concealment.

 

Lethality is stealthy but not melee, lethality works at mid range mostly.

 

Medic is not melee either, and you will proobably not want to be meleeing your target.

 

So, again, only one tree is a melee stealth.

 

Cover is a core mechanic of the Imperial Agent class, only concealment is less prompted to use it, both lethality and medics have many uses for it.

 

You clearly dont know what you are talking about.

 

Gas grenade does not make lethality ranged. Cull, Weaking both are 10m that is melee range, shiv, hidden strike, flashbang, diabilitate are all melee and part of lethality. You don't spam dart and gas grenade in lethality. Lethality should not be using cover they are a mobile user. Dot's while closing, melee to provide your burst.

 

Healing doesn't do damage at range it is heals which all heals are 30m. Shiv, sleep dart, hidden strike are all useful for healers and all are 10m or less. Snipe is the least efficient use of energy for a healer compared to shiv, backstab, hidden strike, corrosive dart, sleep dart. You should be meleeing as a medic as you will save energy, be using a instant over a cast time, have all your CC avialable for use, get TA procs from shiv, be able to use Carbine for AE off those abundant TA procs you get as a healer, and can use your interupt to save high damage attacks when the rest of your group that has them won't use them. At times you will stay away while doing heavy healing but when damaging you will want to be in melee to where at times you can just keep hot going and use shiv and hot procs of TA to fuel surgical.

 

Cover is not a core for operatives. So please tell me these abundant uses of cover that dwarf all the benifiets a operative gets for melee range since you seem to believe i don't know jack about operatives.

[En_v]

My 2 cents on the subject.

 

IamA 50 MM Sniper, and leveling to cap I've died countless times because of the cover system just completely failing.

 

Like many mentioned before Rolling into cover and pulling more mobs.

Lag and random Channel Breaking in cover. ESPECIALLY in PvP, I love using SoS, having it break after the first shot (No Los Issues) then using Rapid Fire and it does it again.

Having it display the casting bar when its not casting (Generally Issue)

Setting up for to kill a boss and you get LOS issues when clearly there isn't.

Getting stuck in Cover and not being able to do anything untill I die, or Logout. (Annoying in PvP)

 

My Biggest Gripe is 30% of the time in PvP I can set up and not be focused right away, do some amazing dps as long as the perfect setup is given, then the other times I have to clearly get out in the open because every little thing can LOS, and since all my major dps abilities are channeled this blows. Another thing is getting charged/pulled and having to get into cover to knockback in any situation (Ambush, Cover Pulse) by the time I do get in cover Im dead.

 

I do realize that I need to sitback and pewpew but with the combined LOS, Cover Bugging/Moving to a unwanted location, failed channels) its sometimes unbearable.

 

 

On a Side Note:

I "LOVE" how ops/Republic Equiv can kick me to death in one stun and no cover is needed.

Edited January 3, 2012 by En_v

[finc_loki]

I believe replacing the 'Cover' button with 'Crouch' enables you to activate the drop shield regardless of the situation, and eliminates the need for natural cover... Which, in turn, eliminates 90% of your whine, since you said yourself the drop shield works flawlessly.

 

The problem is that natural cover is 100% damage mitigation (when not standing up taking aim and shooting) within the 45 degree cone on the other side from blasters etc.

Whereas the portable cover only mitigates 20% of damage.

 

Do you now see the difference in importance?

 

It would be nice being able to hide behind the rock and take no damage when hunkered down from the blaster wielding enemies shooting from the opposite side.

 

At least that is how it's suppose to work, but it's bugged with line of sight for shooting in many cases.

 

Not to mention the idiocy of being rolled into cover 2 feet from an enemy, or roll into cover that protect (maybe) the enemy in front, only to notice that you have a 3 enemies behind you about 15 feet away that you all of a sudden pulled aggro on cause you rolled into said cover.

Now you have enemies in front and behind and have to face 6-10 enemies all of a sudden.

 

THAT is messed up.

 

As a Sniper advanced spec, we have to have cover, this is where our real damaging abilities lie.

Edited January 3, 2012 by finc_loki