Garon Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 This is an issue that needs to be addressed eventually, after dealing with ability responsiveness in high activity areas. Project's animation causes its damage to apply later than Shock. Either Project's animation needs to be sped up to be on par with Shock or a delay to Shock needs to be added to bring it in line with Project. Two equally skilled players with an Assassin andShadow matchup will result in Assassins winning more often by the sole fact that Shock can apply damage instantly and Project does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommandoPower Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) This is an issue that needs to be addressed eventually, after dealing with ability responsiveness in high activity areas. Project's animation causes its damage to apply later than Shock. Either Project's animation needs to be sped up to be on par with Shock or a delay to Shock needs to be added to bring it in line with Project. Two equally skilled players with an Assassin andShadow matchup will result in Assassins winning more often by the sole fact that Shock can apply damage instantly and Project does not. In PVP it makes it a far far worse skill all the way around. It's not near as useful for burst so I normally use it only on the run. This is important because as an instant it should be able to cap off a burst chain nicely. It's also is completely ineffective for last hitting someone when they might get that critical heal or guard. In a purely selfish sense you'll get your "kill stolen" time and time again with rock in mid air. Edited January 2, 2012 by CommandoPower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiance Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Completely agree OP, I'm tired of the 'mirrored' class not being a true 'mirror'. How about we just have an animation where we throw a rock from our hand instantly? I wouldn't feel so bad if this move wasn't vital in our burst damage scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezio-Auditore Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 There's the same issue with trooper mortar volley and bb death from above. Mortar volley takes significantly longer for the first hit, making it harder for troopers to stop people from capping that are out pf LoS in alderaan and making it harder to interrupt bh before the first damage tick goes off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shammus Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) There's the same issue with trooper mortar volley and bb death from above. Mortar volley takes significantly longer for the first hit, making it harder for troopers to stop people from capping that are out pf LoS in alderaan and making it harder to interrupt bh before the first damage tick goes off No there isn't this was actually disproven by two sides trying to prove the other wrong In fact the first two hits from commando go off significantly faster. and the last one being slower. Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=117221&page=10 the animation looks alot slower then the actual damage above the characters and the round deals the damage well before it hits the ground. Edited January 2, 2012 by Shammus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommandoPower Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 No there isn't this was actually disproven by two sides trying to prove the other wrong In fact the first two hits from commando go off significantly faster. and the last one being slower. Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=117221&page=10 the animation looks alot slower then the actual damage above the characters and the round deals the damage well before it hits the ground. I want to say, very awesome to have gone through and TESTED it. Too many people do not attempt to get a picture of both sides of the playing field before going pew pew on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalrat Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I could not agree with this more. Stuff like this is ridiculous and quit frankly...it begs the question of HOW it could make it live? It's so clearly unfair, and yet developers just let it go. In general, the world and questing feel fairly polished, especially for an MMO. The PvP as it stands makes me think that Bioware simply wasn't ready to make an MMO, and I'm prepared to watch this game die. I'm hoping developers get off their asses and have this **** patched asap, but I don't have high hopes. I suspect when classes start up again and people are back to work, this game won't be good enough to keep us away from such duties. There's no temptation to neglect my studies for this **** game, so they better fix it before classes start again. I am far from the first or only to say this, heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highcommander Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Well to me it doesn't make much sense to take damage from something until it hits you... so I really can't see a way for them to change project unless they speed up the animation tremendously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I agree that it should be fixed, but lets be honest here, shock is a very minor source of damage and should generally be near the bottom of your priority list. unless it's a stupidly close fight, it's not going to make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wykar Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The slow damage component of this move is what makes it good. by the time it hits your global cooldown is up for you to hit with another ability. the small amount of burst from a combination involving project is usually enough to make players blow one or more of their defensive cooldowns early. I for one do not want it changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlodo Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Well to me it doesn't make much sense to take damage from something until it hits you... so I really can't see a way for them to change project unless they speed up the animation tremendously... You're thinking backwards. Project should be made instant and the animation changed as much as necessary to match the behavior, not the other way around. That's the type of backwards thinking that probably created the problem in the first place. Form should follow function, not the other way around. Edited January 2, 2012 by Zlodo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draemos Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 This is an issue that needs to be addressed eventually, after dealing with ability responsiveness in high activity areas. Project's animation causes its damage to apply later than Shock. Either Project's animation needs to be sped up to be on par with Shock or a delay to Shock needs to be added to bring it in line with Project. Two equally skilled players with an Assassin andShadow matchup will result in Assassins winning more often by the sole fact that Shock can apply damage instantly and Project does not. At the very worst, both will die at the same time instead of the shadow winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlodo Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) At the very worst, both will die at the same time instead of the shadow winning. That small window of time can make the difference. The player can be shielded, healed, or guarded just before project lands. Edited January 2, 2012 by Zlodo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokosnoot Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 What annoys me far more is that project presents itself as an instant ability, however I am unable to use my 'off GCD' spells (interrupt, whatever it's called) while the animation is running. So apart from it not being instant, it also provides a timeframe of around a second during which I cannot interrupt heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garon Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I agree that it should be fixed, but lets be honest here, shock is a very minor source of damage and should generally be near the bottom of your priority list. unless it's a stupidly close fight, it's not going to make a difference. Shock/Project can be a very significant source of burst damage with the appropriate procs and/or skill builds. Induction/Circling Shadows, Energize/Particle Acceleration, Chain Shock/Upheaval, and Crackling Blasts/Deep Impact can be used in various builds to make it a very useful move. For example for Darkness/KC players, I know the combination of Energize/Particle Acceleration, Exploitive Strikes/Force Synergy, and Chain Shock/Upheaval make Shock/Project an important part of their rotation. For Deception/Infiltration players, the combination of Induction/Circling Shadows, Crackling Blasts/Deep Impact, Exploitive Strikes/Force Synergy, Chain Shock/Upheaval, and the proc from Voltaic Slash/Clairvoyant Strike also makes Shock/Project an important part of their arsenal. That small window of time can make the difference. The player can be shielded, healed, or guarded just before project lands. Exactly right. Edited January 2, 2012 by Garon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeves Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 So, why do I hafta throw a rock that is near me? Why can't I use the force to pick up a rock near the enemy and have it hit them? Delay problem fixt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawconis Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I have been screaming about this problem in the Shadow forums. It is a big deal in PvE and PvP. In PvE that .8 second delay in dmg could be the difference bewteen the mob killing your or not. In PvP its much, much, much worse. As stated before, there are numerous issues where a player can benefit from 1 extra global cooldown. To make matters worse: Upheavel vs. Chain Shock. The proc occurs when the dmg HITS> Thus, we are looking at 1 second for the first rock, and then another second for the 2nd. Thats TWO global cooldowns. Yucky pvp inbalance. O, this is not just an Assassin > Shadow issue, its a Sorcerer > Sage problem too. Right now, the Dark side IS stronger.... Edit: Newer issue: Particle Accerlaration; Project will NOT crit if you cast Project, and the buff wears out. Shock would crit though....OUCHHHHHH Edited January 5, 2012 by Lawconis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawconis Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 /bump for awarness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Op/Smuggler is the opposite. Several op abilities have longer animations than smuggler ones. It is just a symptom of the mindbogglingly stupid decision to tie activation to animation instead of to button presses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lina_Inverse Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Edit: Newer issue: Particle Accerlaration; Project will NOT crit if you cast Project, and the buff wears out. Shock would crit though....OUCHHHHHH On the converse, you can pop force potency/relic/adrenal while the rock is in the air and it will apply the damage/crit. You cannot do this with shock. Having played both in pvp extensively at 50(multiple hundreds of hours at 50 on each), I can say i actually preferred project's delay as it allowed me to line up better burst in most situations. Edited January 5, 2012 by Lina_Inverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriasImmortal Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 On the converse, you can pop force potency/relic/adrenal while the rock is in the air and it will apply the damage/crit. You cannot do this with shock. Having played both in pvp extensively at 50(multiple hundreds of hours at 50 on each), I can say i actually preferred project's delay as it allowed me to line up better burst in most situations. Inversely (Pun intended), it also allows damage reduction cooldowns or shields to be placed on the target before the damage actually arrives. It's a double edged sword. While "shatter comboing" project+force breach/shadow strike/spinning strike is certainly a nice benefit to the delayed animation, I would prefer the instant damage of shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiussat Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think the best solution is to make it so that when project is cast, the target is stunned until the casting is finished. That way you can keep your animation as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The problem is much bigger then just Project and Shock, consistently the Republic classes have longer cooldowns, and slower cast times and damage times. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=136053 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xruptor Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The problem is much bigger then just Project and Shock, consistently the Republic classes have longer cooldowns, and slower cast times and damage times. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=136053 I would have to agree it does seem sorta bias right now. Almost makes you feel that Bioware worked on Empire first then quickly put together the Republic stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demorase Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) The delay issue with project is so obvious, it's the first thing I noticed when I created a consular during the beta week end, don't get me wrong, I thought it looked cool but I immediately noticed this spell was weird. It's not cast, but it's not a true instant spell either. Now, that could have been ok, but then when the game came out I started a Sith Inquisitor, and I was shocked (no pun intended, seriously ) by the disparity between the Sith version and the Jedi version of the same spell. I can't believe they let something like that fly, it's a huge difference, it completely change your gameplay. All I can say is, I feel bad for Jedi consulars. How did Bioware not notice? Do they intend to fix it? It's so easy to fix on top of that, all you have to do is make the damage and stun occure instantly when you press the spell, and they can keep the cute animation with the rock if they want. Edited January 6, 2012 by Demorase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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