I don't agree that most arguments are just about his tone. I would agree that most arguments stem from their distaste for his tone. Rubs them so wrong that they have to say something against him, even if it's completely wrong. And If we're talking about the criteria for these robes, I agree with it. The ridiculous part is when people go "what's the difference?" and say we already have them. This is what I was getting at in my last paragraph. This goal post has never changed. Short of this, though, there's still many perfectly jedi outfits. But they're not so simple to describe as there's not much commonality among them. You just kind of know it when you see it. Or you don't. Because unlike the associations we share with the what-are-we-calling-them robes, our experiences with these outfits vary as wildly as their designs.

The arguments for the robes aren't the goal posts, are they? The robes are. You know, the goal. Alec has changed terminology and arguments from the start to now, that's true. Shouldn't you take that as him conceding the point? We all know what jedi look like. We know. Google "jedi robes" and what we're asking for is most of what you'll see. That's what "traditional" stemmed from: what we traditionally view jedi as. But we have to pretend that's not the case. "Hohoho, is that really what jedi look like?" Fine, I say. Fine. Just for the sake of avoiding these irrelevant conversations I would change my language. It's not traditional. It's not even prologue. Is it even Obi-Wan? Owen Lars! This is what the argument has been trimmed down to: They exist in this era. They look good. I want it. (And about Alec's supposed finicky tastes: I agree with him completely when it comes to nitpicking the shortcomings of current outfits in comparison to what we're asking for. In lieu of our ultimate goal, though, there's a slew of outfits that are still highly evocative and fitting for jedi. But it gets much more subjective at this point. For example, he really likes Vrook Lamar's as a jedi outfit and I think it sucks. I think Humble Hero is the current best jedi outfit in the game and he's in the past said it's not jedi at all.)

Satele's Wrath sounds awesome.

I respect that a lot, but for me it was the opposite:

Would have no question in my mind about starting over. It won't take long as you say. Even if 12x wasn't active I would start over. Can't just resume a story I've been long away from and have it be the same. The pull and pacing would be off. The immersion. The magic.

The thread? You can't understand the discussion just from this latest thread. Try going back two or three years to when this discussion actually began. Maybe because you think your upbringing was so prodigious it's keeping you from acknowledging the mistakes you are indeed making. Anakin. I saw, by the way, how you're still conflating eras and baselessly besmirching Yoda's name over in the Story forums. Some sense of shame there would be good. There are no arguments against these robes that haven't been countered. Especially the argument you made which is that they already exist. There are other arguments...but they aren't against the robes and as such are irrelevant: That these robes aren't actually traditional -- Pointlessly pedantic. Even if this were true it doesn't change anything. Getting us to call them by another name won't get us to stop wanting them. Make your dumb Owen Lars jokes; I might even laugh. But it doesn't matter. That Alec is a blowhard -- Maybe, maybe not. Still want the robes either way. Also, in my earlier list of robes I forgot to mention Vrook Lamar's. The shoulderpads and turtleneck are a problem for me, but they're good. Just would rather have this Vrook Lamar. Which is the ultimate goal post and always has been.

Yeah, if you kissed them goodbye on Yavin you get to continue. I thought that option was too cheesy so I didn't pick it. But it's not like the other option you told them some vile and cruel things. My character just had their heart broken, can they get a minute to breath? Apparently not.

Still didn't get to continue the romance in the Ziost finale. Just saw what happens if you can. So very unfair.

I'm also interested in who flies the ship. Fun fact: the consular is the only class that's always seen solo piloting themselves in intro cutscenes. I also assume whoever talks in the on-rails space combat missions is co-piloting. I don't know who talks for the consular though. Iresso could probably pilot. Like Nieme said it's a good indicator to be in the cockpit.

Look at the OP. See how he's asking questions about what they are, what they could be? Tell me how acting on their own authority without Satele or anyone else on the Council isn't relevant for me to bring up the day we got that information. The Sixth Line is not an order. It's not a sect. It's one tiny little squad with a cute motto. The Sixth Line isn't even a real name. I would be surprised if we see any of them again unless their scope is drastically altered after what happened on Ziost(such as a large group of jedi being moved to take up the name). Everything else I've said was in direct response to flawed arguments you made. Don't be upset because I had to correct you.

You also have an annoying habit of responding to arguments that aren't made. It's part of the discussion to find out what the Sixth Line actually is. That Satele didn't sanction the Ziost action puts the final piece of the puzzle in for me.

The name is Revan. But yeah, what MoskitoMando said. After what , though, it's not certain anymore.

Theron: Saresh and Master Satele weren't all that excited to find out I had a team of black-ops Jedi on call without their knowledge.

Established where?

It's easy to accuse people of moving goalposts when you refuse to acknowledge what they want in the first place. Looks like a lot of fun too. 75% isn't gosh darn good enough. If you can't understand that you should abdicate your right to keep discussing this. Their shortcomings make them too ugly to wear. Let's remember how you came into this thread: by saying, "Hey guys, this look is already in the game. I can't remember the name...I'll post it when I get home. Oh yes! Here it is: RELNEX! My work here is done." Your unfamiliarity with the history of this discussion is evident in your every reply.

In that same building, though, force users were able to force jump up the elevator shaft and across that gap. Non-force users had a booster jump thing instead. That was nice at least.

The context of the Sixth Line changes nothing you or I've said. And frankly, you're placing far too much importance on what the Sixth Line represents even though you say you aren't. I just want to say right now you have an annoying habit of bringing real life comparisons into these discussions. It really bogs them down. Unprepared or not, they still mobilized. Where's the difference? Yoda's jedi did that. Where's the difference? Yoda's jedi did that. Where's the difference? The smoking gun of Satele saying destroy the Emperor again. . Where's the difference? There is no difference. Not between KOTOR's jedi and Yoda's jedi. At the end most of them did that. That doesn't change what they did throughout which is where the difference lies: Barons and kings. Castles and feudal caste systems. Controlling the Republic rather than serving it. This is nothing like what the jedi of this era or under Yoda did. Let me now bring up this conversation the Knight (could of) had with Kira for thought: You seem to not comprehend the information you have. You're conflating the New Sith Wars with this era, and that's all there is to it.

I don't really know why you keep bringing up the Sixth Line. I'm responding to what you said about pre-Ruusan jedi being so different from post-Ruusan: They weren't. The only jedi that were significantly different were the New Sith Wars ones. Jedi during the New Sith Wars more served themselves.

You weren't looking if you never saw Alderaan requested.

The romance is only continued if you picked the option to kiss them goodbye, by the way. Which I think is highly unfair.

Highly contestable. Can't take Watcher Two's statement definitively.

No, I know well the line you dance around just to be argumentative. That's why I said people like you, not necessarily you. It's also why I've yet to address anything you've said. I recognize you're more concerned with arguing with Alec than whether we get the robes or not. I'm not interested in tone debates. I just want the robes and for nonsensical arguments against them to stop. No, you just antagonize constantly side-by-side with those who do while saying nothing to their ridiculous arguments.

The difference is that it's still a Republic army. Satele and the other jedi are just leaders of it just as they were during the Clone Wars. It's not like during the New Sith Wars where they had personal armies and were given over to hubris, deeming themselves lords and rulers. I'm sure I don't need to point out to you that during the Jedi Knight storyline capturing or redeeming was exactly the plan. So that was the first choice. But more to the point, how is this a distinguishing characteristic from Yoda's jedi? . Yoda didn't go to face Sidious with the intention of redeeming him, nor did Obi-Wan want for Luke to redeem Vader. I just don't see how this is different from Yoda's jedi. They did exactly the same thing. The difference is how they behave. The jedi during the New Sith Wars are hubristic like I said, they're gruffer, they're less philosophical, they're more like soldiers and daimyos. Starting with KOTOR and up till now in TOR the jedi behaved far more like they did under Yoda. Perhaps the Sixth Line is where the transition begins.

I think I saw one person say Yavin, at least. I'd like it more in a different era. My inquisitor might can do something with it. Those waterfalls are pretty cool. I just hope they give a good lore reason for Republic players to have a stronghold there. I don't think the coalition is a good enough one.

It's specifically the Dark Padawan/Jedi and Padawan/Jedi robes. If you'd call those dissimilar to what is seen post-Ruusan, then fine. I don't but I don't see the point in arguing about it. I still want that look no matter what you call it. Sure, it makes sense that the jedi wore armor a lot pre-Ruusan and that even the robes were largely different. But that wasn't what Diefenbaker said so you shouldn't give him any credit for sense.