I run 36/10/0. I don't take Agonizing Sabers but take Cloak of Annihilation instead, the Rage management is not too hard and the CD reduction on Cloak of Pain is amazing, especially in 1v1 encounters. Sometimes I can practically reduce the CD by more than 20 seconds if I pop Saber Ward and am fighting another while dmg based class. I take cloak of carnage for the exact purpose you mentioned and also get the AoE DR and the 36% dmg boost to off-hand attacks. I know many people think of Cloak of Annihilation as useless but personally I like it.

It all depends on what build you use really...no use of going Soresu in Vengeance is your goal is to DPS, you don't only lose 15% movement speed, but also a 12% increase in melee dmg and 6% increase in force dmg because of Single Saber mastery.

I think it's based on percentages. So you'd have to go on the leaderboards and find the top X% and they'll receive whatever rewards there is. Not that this mean anything on our server though :rolleyes:

Vengeance never was hard...at all. The problems with it before were that: 1. People could walk out of ravage unless they were snared. 2. You could go the entire Ravage CD without a single reset -> Terrible DPS. 3. If you weren't careful with you resource management (or didn't get many ravage procs) you'd have to spam Assault. The playstyle of Vengeance is the same as before, but it has much less limitations thus it became stronger, not easier. @Above...Vengeance doesn't have much burst really...and in case both aren't focused a Vanguard of the same skill level as a jug will outperform him by a decent amount of damage.

And I expected to see you on Ilum :>

In competitive PvP (assuming we're talking about the abomination that is solo ranked, since it's pretty much the only form of "competitive" PvP left) Pyro PT> Mara...a mara needs much more support than a Pyro to execute it's dmg making it less desirable, but in group ranked I'd go as far as to say that Maras are favored simply because they bring more utility. Jugg on the other hand, as you said, are much more desirable in solos PvP simply because in matches without a healer, ED is an effective deciding factor.

Ganking people all day everyday >.> especially at night, that's when things get fun. We had like 15-20 pvp geared people at pylon on Instance 2 yesterday...was epic.

Lol thanks for explaining to me what CDs that I have used for ages against all sorts of classes great pvp master Now, when you see a non-trash PT lose a 1v1 to a mara of equal skill come and tell me, I'd be really interested to see how it happened. You seem to forget that unless the mara is carnage the PT can kite him without too much trouble, and if the mara decides to pop Predation he's greatly gimping his DPS especially in Annihilation/Rage spec so that's out of the question. And even if you choke the PT or Awe him he still has Shoulder Cannon so you'll end up eating damage anyways. Pyro shield will reflect 7k dmg for the entire length of the DCD back to your face if you attack the PT so what will you do? Stop attacking him? Not to mention any smart PT won't start the fight with TD against a mara, the point is to bait the moment he pops cloak of pain (which most maras usually pop at the start of the fight...) and wait it out. Unless the mara is Smash specced it very easy to do unless you've dotted him up. In the case where the mara leaps straight at the PT as you seem to think should be the case Hydraulics ->Herp derp->Cloak of Pain ran out->mara will get raped. Pyro also gets a 25% defense chance increase to all damage, so popping that while waiting Cloak of Pain out helps a lot. This whole topic is just useless to debate, since a Pyro PT's single target dmg output in a duel is so superior to a mara's the PT either has to be very unlucky with crits (Pyros get an 8% crit chance to all tech dmg and an additional 6% crit chance to all fire effects, so they crit A LOT) or just plain terrible to lose. Answers in red. I'm not whining about PT's don't get me wrong, if that's the idea you got from my post forget it! But some people whine that Pyro (I mean how many PT's do u see running AP nowadays) is weak when in reality it isn't weak at ALL. I wish they'd buff AP, for real. It isn't but Force Scream is only a real threat in Carnage, even veng Jugg's auto crit screams hit for 4-5k (hits greater than 5k are due to relic procs assuming no other dmg buff such as bloodthirst or the set bonus is present). Vicious Throw hits for 3k-4k when it doesn't crit...my Flame Bursts on my PT hit for practically the same amount without crits, and unlike Rail Shot, it isn't an auto-crit in one of the trees (though AP Rail Shots aren't that big compared to Pyro's) nor does it have a 40% crit chance and deals 8k's on crits in the other tree.

What you stated is a much better proposal, and honestly, I'd like to see something done with the SOUTHERN half of the freaking gree enclave...there's practically nothing to do there.

Ok....how is any class except a sin with shroud and Jugg with reflect supposed to avoid the thermal det dmg? You can't interrupt a Rail Shot either, and that hits for around 8k when it crits...which should be ~40% of the time and you can reset it every 6 seconds. Thermal Det. is on a 15seconds CD, so you're gonna throw 2 rail shots without it. Unlike Carnage whose Ravages u can interrupt you can also stun them through Gore. Concealment OP you just pop a mezz, stun, knockback, root break when they open on you, Deception is ****ed if Discharge/Maul or both don't crit. Fact is, Rail Shot on it's own with a proper crit chance is much burstier that what many burst classes have to offer at such short intervals of time...how many classes can dish an 8k hit every 6 seconds 40% of the time? Sure, Smash can do that every ~9 seconds, but the sustained dmg is so terrible you can't even compare it to Pyro's, not to mention how the moment you go against somebody with an AoE DR you're burst is non-existent.

I wish the PvP area was a different instance by itself, this way we wouldn't have like 4-5 Ilum instance and when somebody would go "OMG GANKERS AT PYLON!1!1!1!" You'd have to switch instance and try and find them. It would also be much more active, although it would cause much more grieving from those who can't get dailies done >.>

We actually managed to get over 15 people at pylon on instance two around 12:00pm EST, and they were actually PvP geared and every group had healers, that lasted quite a while so it was fun. and obviously we WILL cross paths again >.>

Tsk Tsk Tsk Tsk...smash on a sentinel feels so much better. Focus Sentinel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Combat Sentinel. Blade Rush looks absolutely horrid when you spam it with Zen up.

/signed

^^^This. Though I disagree about Annihilation spec being hard, it DOES require you to get a set rotation in your head and stick to it as much as possible, in fact that's what makes it easy, though if you were referring to the lack of mobility and the problems Anni can face because of them, I agree, as it is the least mobile of warrior specs.

It's hilarious to what extremes people are going to gank others on The Shadowlands, there's people stacking on other's companions to get hit by their AoEs if the player is not using any, there's stealths aggroing 20 mobs then bringing it near a group of other players and Stealthing out, etc If I ever wonder in the PvP area alone. I always grab some orbs with me (because pylon campers ftw!)...if I get ganked by 2+ people and know I can't win, I just get two of them down to 40-50% HP and the orb explosion hits them for a nice 10-14k dmg when I die...so hilarious to see the two stealth gankers that tried to kill you get raped by the orb explosion LOL

Don't forget how Pyro PT's have burst that's very difficult to interrupt and counter, as well as the fact that Kolto Overload can be an 8 second immortality period against classes who do not have enough burst.

The dmg output of a Vengeance Jugg in arenas where both teams have a healer is pretty worthless though since it is not very hard to heal through, the only real nuisance is the LolRoot on ravage...a Combat/Watchman Sentinel can easily pull more DPS while bringing a crapload more utility that the jug can only dream of...the jug doesn't offer neither enough burst or enough sustained pressure to be a threat, there's classes that excel much more at that. The issue is, however; that ED is basically a second life against anybody too foolish to watch the Jugg's buff bar or when popped at the right time against DoT specs (those guys can't really counter that easily). Add to that the fact that vengeance has become dam easy and you have a spec that almost anybody can perform well with.

I know, considering I play on that server and there's always at least 2 PT's in every game in lowbie PvP, it is flawed indeed. At 55, there's much more PT's than in lowbies, as for marauders it's the opposite, I tend to see more in lowbies than in 55. @ OP, if you plan on running Pyro, definitely stick to your PT. At 55 with the proper gear and stat optimization, the dmg output is really insane.

Yeah, I got pushed off a bridge by some derpy sin too Made me chuckle. Other than that 14k Force Sweep FTW!!!!

And it's not like you CAN'T group up or get some PvP gear either

It's even more hilarious on a PvE server though "OMG let me do my dailies!!!! This isn't a PvP Server, stop ganking me!!!". It's a PvP area, people go in there knowing that, so screw them. I'm not able to get my Xenoanalyst weekly done bcuz my min/maxed Brut/Obroan gear is "not good enough", well sorry...get some expertise or a group of friends.

Wait, Solo ranked is popping on the Shadowlands without people setting up OPS groups?

In my opinion Annihilation's dmg output is dam epic right now and it does better in arenas compared to regular WZs. Granted, if the arena doesn't last more than ~30seconds you can't ramp up your full annihilate stacks, but with the diminished amount of players in arenas you're much less likely to eat random CC and knockbacks, and since Anni is the least mobile of Mara specs, that definitely helps it a lot when it comes to target uptime.

I noticed you xferred over to the Shadowlands, is POT5 that dead?