[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

There are some fundamental differences in the randomness between something like a poker game and having utilities miss.

I didn't mention poker. I was more thinking Bridge.

That said, yes I do tend to avoid games where the win state relies much on luck.

You may want to avoid Internet MMOs then, since Darth Lag, a pretty random fellow, has probably wiped more raids than any boss mechanic.

As for if I would remove all RNG from the game, no I would not. It depends on the type of RNG, since much of the existing RNG is not very meaningful. ...random bonus from crit, can give a "jackpot" feeling while not punishing the player if they don't.

Do you raid much with a Sorc heal? Not getting stacks of Force Surge over two consecutive innervates because of bad luck, even though you popped Recklessness, is pretty meaningful and very annoying. But i wouldn't change it, that would be boring.

 

Anyway, clearly you like less randomness than some other people. That's fine, but that doesn't make you right and them wrong. However, I get the feeling the people who figured out how to beat the NiM mode miss-interrupt-and-die mechanics, as posted earlier in this thread, enjoyed doing it, and I'd rather not take that pleasure away from them, even if I will never have it myself. YMMV.

You still haven't addressed whether or not you support my proposed changes...

While I am flattered that you desire my opinion of your proposal, "get used to disappointment." -- The Dread Pirate Roberts, The Princess Bride.

[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

I personally feel that they should RNG my subscription fee and see how they like that. Maybe I'll pay this month maybe I won't, but they still have to give me everything a sub gets even if I don't pay.

To be fair, it would have to be:

• Roll a 20: play for the month as a subscriber without paying
  
• Roll a 2-19: play for a month, pay for a month.
  
• Roll a 1: pay for the month, but only get preferred status.
  

 

Because if you can only "win," they'd raise your subscription fee to make up for the occasional free month.

"There ain't no rest for the wicked ... Ain't nothing in this world for free."

[Anyone else frustrated with the slot machines chances of landing a Rancor?]

Nope. If I had to roll against my companions for drops, I'd never get anything. This is a very real occurrence, across multiple games. RNG hates me, and always has.

Did you do annoy the NSA or something?

[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

... I have a more fundamental issue with interrupts (and other utility abilities) missing. Random is not challenging.

Not a fan of card games, then? Anyway, I disagree. Coping with randomness, i.e. "playing the cards you are dealt," is a challenging part of many games and inevitably (according to quantum physics) of life itself.

 

[Followup edit] Would you prefer they removed the RNG entirely from SWTOR, or is it just this particular roll of the dice that bothers you?

[Idea to improve GF queue times]

Maybe some way of knowing how many tanks/heals/dps are in queue. If you could see that when you signed up it would be enough. Unsure how much it would actually improve queue times for dps though, but every little thing Counts.

That's not a bad idea.

[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

But really the question is, what's the point of making it miss sometimes? What about it adds anything interesting to the gameplay?

It adds challenge and variety. Other people have already provided examples how to cope, but spinning some examplea:

 

"For this fight, the off tank has to wear some accuracy gear, so healers, be ready to heal more."

or

"Tanks, interrupt early and if you miss, call out immediately so someone can try again."

or

"We are going to have the DPS Jug tank the boss during this period of time so we do not miss the interrupt."

or

"Here, use this Accuracy adrenal when you see this channel start, then interrupt."

 

Yes, all this coping behavior makes the fight more challenging. It creates another unique situation for a particular fight that the players must adapt to or roll the dice. I do not consider that bad - HM raiding should be hard, and NiM mode should be so hard that only the best players can do it.

 

Or is it just not fun?

That depends on what you enjoy. I enjoy both a tough challenge and a faceroll, depending on my mood. YMMV.

[Idea to improve GF queue times]

Good in theory.

Unfortunately the game doesn't even have your alts share a common cash pool, a total no-brainer. The engine just doesn't seem *nearly* alt-aware enough for it.

Yeah, the alt-awarenes is minimal: just the mailbox recipient-check function and the Legacy Family Tree.

Still, there is some hope in the upcoming Legacy Vault and (rumored or wished for?) Legacy Bank.

 

I think the bigger challenge might be automatically logging you off, logging in the alt, and going to the Op/FP. Whether that can be done with "reasonable" effort depends on details of the client and server code that I don't know.

 

But maybe I am thinking too ambitiously. Perhaps a system where you can queue a logged-off alt and just get a notice when the queue pops for it -- at which time you could decline it, change toons and accept it, or leave it to time out -- might be easier to implement and give most of the benefits. But since I imagine GF currently de-queues logged out toons, there might still be difficult coding to do, as well as a new UI (perhaps leveraging the Legacy Family Tree panel?) to build.

[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

Accuracy affects anything you attempt to do to a hostile target ...

the only exceptions to this rule are abilities that taunt, which cannot be resisted per their tooltips.

 

It is worth noting that some bosses, at least at some time, cannot be taunted. Others cannot be interrupted. People manage to cope with this, so I expect they cope with accuracy affecting interrupts too. They must, because as far as I know every bit of content in the game has been cleared by someone.

 

Is the issue whether the miss mechanics prevent clearing content, or whether they make farming it difficult?

[Anyone else frustrated with the slot machines chances of landing a Rancor?]

Zero credits spent, zero Rancors obtained.

So just as with state lotto games, the odds do not bother me at all.

[Idea to improve GF queue times]

Allow people to queue more than one of their alts (perhaps only from the same faction the player was currently logged in to) at one time.

 

That way, the player could, for example, queue both a tank toon and a healer toon, and GF would select whichever was needed to complete a group, notify the player of the alt selected, and if the player accepted the game would switch the player to the selected toon and transport the player to the op/FP.

 

Why I think this would improve GF enormously: how often have you seen someone switch to a tank or healer alt in order to complete a pug group? Pretty often, because they need to.

 

Reality check: this would likely involve a major change in the GF code and the implementation of new code to do the switch to the selected alt. So the required investment to bring this to SWTOR is probably high. As as a result, getting to "the wall of crazy" may be as far as this idea ever goes.

[whats new in 2.9?]

Since you seem to know what you're talking about - how difficult would it have been to avoid this type of situation? Is there any good reason GF needs to be so complex that a 16-person queue would bring the server to a crawl?

The easiest way would have been to design GF for 16 man groups from the start. Algorithmic complexity is more completely expressed as K*f(N), where N is the number of inputs, f is the complexity order function (N, N^2, e^N, N!, and so on), and K is a linear factor. If N is small you may be better off with high order complexity algorithm with a low K, if N is large you may wish to use an algorithm with large K but lower order complexity.

 

For example: if you expect to be sorting 4 numbers, you may want to a simple but high-order complexity algorithm (such as bubble sort) because it doesn't require much setup, and therefore has a low K. But if you expect to be sorting 100 million numbers, you probably want to spend a lot of time setting things up so you can use a lower order complexity algorithm (like a hash sort and/or sort-merge).

 

Is there a low order complexity algorithm for GF? My intuition is that there is, but I haven't analyzed the problem. However, intuitition might also lead one to think the knapsack problem, "Given a set of items, each with a mass and a value, determine the number of each item to include in a collection so that the total weight is less than or equal to a given limit and the total value is as large as possible," had simple algorithm to solve it, but no one know of one.

 

The good news, though, is that you do not need to find an optimal combination for a group, just one that works That may mean you assign a few people queued as tanks/DPS or Heal/DPS to a DPS role and lose potentially rare tank/heal candidates that way, thereby lengthening queue times, but that might be acceptable.

 

TL;DR: Yes, there probably is a way to do 16m GF without bringing the servers to a crawl, but it may require re-coding the GF algorithm from scratch. Without knowing more about the existing GF code, it is hard to say much more than that.

[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

Classes, yes. Roles, not so much. When a fight requires nDPS+1 interrupters things get dodgy.

 

So for that fight, and I do not know whether you have a specific one in mind, could you not:

1. Change a tank or healer's gear around a little (e.g. Accuracy augments),
   
2. Use an Accuracy adrenal, or
   
3. Hope you don't unlucky?
   

 

And seriously, don't we all choose Option 3 on just about any challenging content?

Has anyone not ever wiped because of bad luck?

[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

It doesn't matter if it's working as intended. What matters is that for certain fight mechanics involving interrupts tanks and healers are in a clear disadvantage.

For certain fight mechanics, DPS without a self-cleanse are at a clear disadvantage.

For certain fight mechanics, "turret" classes are at a clear disadvantage compared to more mobile classes.

And so on. So classes have strengths and weaknesses ... isn't that what we want?

[Restrictions.]

And I already paid money to support this game.

It was clear when you bought it that you were only getting a limited subscription time with your purchase, correct?

 

"Each copy of Star Wars: The Old Republic will come with 30 days of subscription time, after which you have the option to continue playing with one of the following monthly subscription fees."

 

You got what you paid for. Now you want more. Well, you got more: you can play free, just not with all the perks.

And you are unhappy about that? The deal was altered in your favor, and you are complaining?

[Restrictions.]

And you support ...[the] heavy handed restrictions that force you to pay to play?

Absolutely. Video games don't grow on trees, you know.

[whats new in 2.9?]

That's very possible. Perhaps you have a theory on why a 16 man GF queue brought the game to a grinding halt and 8 man doesn't?

Yep. The use of an algorithm with high-order time or space complexity that was designed for 8 man, not 16.

GF is pretty complex, what with pre-mades, ignore lists, and people entering with two roles selected.

A brute-force algorithm with Order(N!) complexity might have been a good choice for 8 man, but a disaster for 16.

[whats new in 2.9?]

You've certainly got a point. How THAT single issue could cause so many problems is beyond me...and sad.

 

It's not beyond me, but perhaps I know more about software engineering than you do.

[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

You swapped your 180 level piece for a 168 level? Nice that you have that luxury to do 16m SM in level 180 gear.

Yes, it is. Most of my Imps are in a mix of 180/168 except a few 162 set-bonus armorings. My main Sorc heal is all 180 except two 168 SB armors, a 186 focus, and maybe 4 other 186 armor modifications - she's the one with 4 more pieces (180/168) for doing DPS in, which she shares with my other Sorc.

 

My pub toons, however, have to borrow from the Imps. Fortunately, I have a few Bound-to-Legacy armors and weapons. A few hundred, actually, mainly for leveling new alts.

 

My hours-having-fun to dollars-spent ratio for SWTOR is pretty high.

 

We are not all seasoned PvEers with higher level gear then the game requires.

But you probably could be if you wanted to be. That said, we all enjoy the game our own way, no right or wrong to it.

[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

There's no way I would even consider using my power/surge gear on my tank and in no way could I just swap 4 pieces on my Vanguard and become an effective tank.

I suspect you haven't tried. I have: I was running my DPS Jug in a pug SM16 S&V and one of the tanks quit. Leader asked me to tank, so I swapped my 180 focus for the 168 shield, changed stances, and off-tanked quite successfully. And that's just one piece that I swapped. And I did not respec either.

 

So, just as you can do sub-optimal healing using your DPS set, and vice-versa, you can do sub-optimal tanking on a DPS jug by just swapping a focus for a shield, or be sub-optimal DPS by just changing stances while in your tank gear. Since being sub-optimal seems to be acceptable to you (as it should be, since it is being adequate for the op that matters), I don't see your issue.

[Update 2.7 Forged Alliances Story Theories (Contains spoilers) Whats yours?]

I think it is the most horrific forged alliance imaginable, one that was unimaginable a year ago:

 

Darth Mickey.

 

[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

This is unfortunately why you don't see a lot of tanks in this game. I would gladly spec tank for a flashpoint/ops/warzone if I had the gear to do it. I simply do not have the time to Min/Max and augment 4 sets of gear. I have time and credits for 1 complete min/max augmented set that I can use for healing or damage.

 

Well first, min/max healing and DPS take different gear with different stats, including different set bonus pieces. I make do with just swapping four pieces on my Sorc to go from Heal to DPS, and it's not optimal at all, but at least I have my Accuracy where it needs to be in the DPS config and my alacrity where I want it on the Heal config, and since it is mainly 180-level gear, it is usually adequate for SM and HM ops. Point is, if you are using the same gear for heals and for DPS, you are not min/maxed at all.

 

Second, why would you need four sets of gear to outfit a tank? One will do if you just want to tank.

 

The need for role-specific gear is not unique to tanks, although it is a bit more stark a difference than between heals and DPS.

[Daily Runs and money totals]

My wife and I like to run dailies together at break-neck speed with a 180/168-geared DPS each, one heal companion, and one DPS companion (generally 168/162 geared or better). We do a lot of fake complaining like "dang I did not even get to my Cull on that gold" or "You snaked my kill, I was in the middle of Ravage!" We also have fun moments like watching an entire group of weak mobs die instantly when a Corrosive Grenade crit'ed them all on the first tick, or taking down a Champion without them ever getting a channeled attack off.

 

Good clean video game fun; fast, familiar, and relaxing, and gives us money for Revan statues, Orobird mounts and other such silliness. Calling it a "grind" does it a disservice.

[BW is forcing tanks to use accuracy?]

But for any content where tanks are actually needed, you are running with other people. If you favor endurance vs mitigation, you'll end up taking more damage and lost health is replenished by your healers which do have limited resources.

Or to put it another way: in any fight that needs a tank, the vast majority of the tank's HPs come from healers, not gear. Check the combat logs for"healing received" and its obvious.

 

Mitigation acts as a multiplier on HP: 50% mitigation is like having double the HP.

Mitigation performs this multiplication on both the tank's gear-based HP and the healer-based HP.

Adding Endurance, on the other hand, only increases that tiny fraction of the total HP that came from the gear.

 

Clearly, a tank needs a good bit of Endurance-based HP to handle spikes in damage and healer derps.

But taking too much Endurance and thereby reducing that mitigation multiplier on all that healer-based HP is likely non-optimal.

[Images for the Homestead on Tatooine]

Actually, I think the entire area is instanced. -- OddballEasyEight

That makes no sense.

For people to be able to invite friends, fellow guild members and the like, there must be an Open-World area separated from your instance similar to what we already have now, on Spaceports, Fleets, etc etc.

I disagree. Starships, class mission areas, and operation areas are instanced and belong to one player, and groups members can join that player in them. I see no reason to believe strongholds will not reuse the same instance mechanisms, although the interface may look different.

[Daily Runs and money totals]

Regarding Oricon dailies:

At this point you should have enough kills to complete the Area mission and can either head to the Heroic area or QT back to base and turn in.

The pattern I use finishes the non-Heroics at the The Tower’s Core. I then use the pyramid at the Tower to go back to base, and then take the taxi-speeder at base to go to the DF Bridge to start the Heroic. Quick and Easy. I use my Quick Travel to turn in after finishing the Heroic.