Stupiddrummer
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Posts posted by Stupiddrummer
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You have to understand, a lot of these folks were lackluster WoW players. They don't want to be judged in this game the same way they were there. Using your mouse to click abilities and not standing in things is a lot for a person to keep track of.
Haha, i played WoW for 5 years and i still dont understand where they get this stuff. People hated on me for my gearscore, but i would still output some serious dps and i had the dps meters to prove it.
Judgmental people are going to judge you. Personally, i haven't met anyone like this in star wars. apart from the forums, everyone has been really nice. I don't really see the community suddenly devolving because of some silly combat data.
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W. Oh look I stepped out of the circle.
Point is, chances are you looking at your cooldowns or skill bar for where to click next instead of looking at the fire.
That of course may not be the case, but compared to a keybinder, who i know doesn't have to focus on skill bars as much, i'd consider a clicker much more of a liability. Again, that may not be the case, but there is a higher probability.
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You're a thought criminal.
haha sure seems that way, the way pro-combat log people are being vilified.
I obviously dont want metrics for personal use, i just want to make fun of everyone else!
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I've used logs to better my play and analyze my rotation to see where I could make improvements. As a result I rank top 30 in the world on most WoW heroic fights for my class. They ARE used as tools.
I've never used them as a reference to tell someone they're bad.
I've never belittled someone for sucking on the meter because I know that the meter isn't everything and ultimately the success of the group is what matters. In fact, when I pug a 5-man I'm usually the guy voting "No" when the rest of the group tries to kick someone. If I feel we can complete the run in a reasonable amount of time I have no problem with someone being a little low on the meter.
On progression fights my guild in WoW, which is top 50 US 25 man (I say that so you realize that we're probably elitests by your standards), could care less where someones overall damage is. Most often we use it to look at specific target damage to see if people are switching to the correct targets quickly enough. We're all good people and I've never seen one of us belittle anyone outside the guild. We sometimes get on eachothers case if one of us is having an off night but that's the extent of it. Usually the real uppity "elitests" come to our guild thinking they're gods gift and eventually leave because they can't hang or because we make them feel unwelcome. We try to keep a really friendly, casual but serious when necessary atmosphere and anyone that disrupts that atmosphere by being a jerk usually weeds themselves out.
The only time I've used a meter as a measuring stick is when the group isn't meeting an enrage timer consistently, an add isn't dying fast enough or a particular segment of the fight is consistently not getting healed through. But again, that's amongst my guildmates and we're all aware of the fact that meters will be used as a tool to help us progress.
Ultimately it comes down to the individual player. There are d-bags everywhere and they will be d-bags regardless of whether or not there's meters. They're the people that taunt lesser geared/skilled people in warzones over general chat or criticize someone in a flashpoint for doing something wrong on a mechanic. You know who they are, they're already here, meters won't bring more of them.
If the personal log works in a group setting when you want it to then I'm perfectly fine with that. If it's something where the members of the group have to enable it in order for other people to see it then that works for me. I can run with people that want to use it and have nothing to hide. Ideally they should just make it so that only guild groups have it shown and even then it can be toggled on/off and that would suffice. For those people that don't want them or don't care what they say then you can just find a guild that thinks like you do. For the other group that wants them you find players to run with that suit your playstyle.
The group that wants them seems to want them because:
A) They enjoy being able to break everything down and max their numbers (there IS a certain gratification that comes with seeing the numbers go up after making some adjustments)
OR
B) They want tougher more complex nightmare modes and without logs available to players BW can't really make fights that are very tightly tuned. (I myself am in this camp)
Neither of these reasons are inherently negative, if anything they're positive mindsets. Player "A" enjoys bettering himself and learning the ins and outs of his class and Player "B" wants more of a challenge from this game because let's face it, nightmare mode has nothing nightmarish about it.
The problem is that the game encompasses a wide spectrum of personalities and age groups. Unfortunately some of the younger or just immature for their age players will look for any excuse to start an argument especially behind the veil of anonymity a game like this provides. However, I think it's unfair to blame the meter for their behavior and relieve them of all responsibility for their actions. Unfortunately, despite them being the numerical minority they can have a large impact on other players game experience since there's nothing to stop them from harassing a player in group or general chat non stop.
With meters implemented WoW was able to reach their peak subscriber numbers and the community there didn't go to crap like some people on here claim it did. The player base is somewhat divided into sections though, with players of similar skill level and interests usually grouping with each other. I really don't think this is avoidable though, with or without meters and I don't even look at it as a negative. The lesser skilled players are happy going on their merry way and playing with other like minded players and the hardcore players eventually find the right guild for them and are free to beat their heads against the heroic mode bosses. The key is that there needs to be enough content for both to enjoy. Right now in TOR, there seems to be enough content for the casuals to enjoy but not enough for the players looking for a real challenge out of operations.
Hey! Good post!
Unfortunately, for that very reason, it will likely be ignored.
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Still waiting for actual proof that clicking or keybinding is better or worse. Anyone? Anyone have something other than opinion? Actual concrete, hard and fast proof?
In the meantime, here are some arguments for both sides:
I'm better.
You suck.
He sucks.
They suck.
This game is dying a slow death.
F2P in a year!
Go back to WoW!
I heard [insert name] Is a puppy killer, [insert name] must be a clicker.
I heard [insert name] is a bunny killer, [insert name] must be a keybinder.
I got laid last nite, so I'm more elite than you.
trollololololol.
Sorcs are OP.
Mix and match as you see fit - doesn't matter if its related to this thread, it is still a perfectly valid argument for proving clicking/keybind is better.
you want proof look at the pro leagues. i went to blizzcon and i didn't see any keyboard turners there
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You should read 1984. It is a book about "valuable tools" that help society to - objectively - measure if people "contribute" and "do their job" as they are supposed to.
No, it is not spying on people. It is just... the obligation to be evaluated.
You contribute? Then you have nothing to fear.
what? you should probably re-read 1984, lol.
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Hey good post!!
Thanks for all the hard work!!
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I wish people would stop trying to encourage others to keybind!
Let them play the way they want!
Clickers are half my kills in Warzones so stop messing with my score!
you'll thank me, as you will become a better player as a result
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Stupiddrummer is a pro-combat logs person. He is making the above comment as some kind of sarcastic troll to get people to dispute him and cast the anti-log people in a bad light.
Ignore him and he will go away again for a period of time.
hah. if i used a signature, this would be the new it.
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How stupid is it that we get a mail telling us we'll get money from a successful sale in an hour? Just skip the notification and send the actual mail with the money in it an hour after the sale.
while were at it, why does it only sometimes tell you who bought your stuff?
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I said you will most likely end a binder.
Not that its the only way.
its ok to agree with me, man. im not a bad person.
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and now you understand a part of my point, while at the same time still not understanding it.
If you are aiming to be competitive, then yes you have to do whatever it takes to be the best.
You min-max, you theory-craft until your eyes bleed, you experiment different keybind and whatnot, until you eventually reach your POTENTIAL.
By that i mean, you reach the point above which you can't go higher. We all have it, and at that point no amount of time invested and practice will make you better.
But not everyone is aiming to be competitive. Not everyone is trying to be the best.
And for good reason. If you are not playing for the top, that potential is wasted anyway.
There is no point to extensive practice if you're wasting your potential from the get go.
On the other hand, most people play for fun, in some form or another.
In these situations, you only need to be good to a certain degree.
This degree of capability can be achieved both by clickers and by binders.
To put it in other terms.
In WoW arena, if your "goal" is to do arenas to get the CP items, you will probably achieve it regardless if you're a clicker or a binder.
If your goal though is to be 2500+ rating. then you'll start refining your play more and more. In most cases you will probably end up being a binder. Rarely will you still be a clicker in that kind of environment. And if you are, you're the 1%
In the case of starcraft, if your goal is to play in silver league or gold, you'll learn whatever it takes to get there and nothing more.
If you want to hit master you'll start changing your play-style until you reach it.
However not everyone has the potential to reach those goals. Your potential is what limits you. You can reach maybe platinum, but in most cases you won't get to master... regardless of the time spent trying to improve.
so you just said what everyone else has been saying. Play how you want, but if you want to play at the highest level you are going to have to keybind.
Yay we did it!!
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I actually did play WoW arena at the pro levels, so I am speaking from experience! Keyboard turners / clickers were a free win 99.999% of the time.
probaly the best thing about WoW that SWTOR left out.
I remember constantly staying behind (enemy) keyboard turning mages, because they could never turn around fast enough to skill cast on me
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You're that person that thinks coins have only one side, aren't you?
I do want people to play to their highest potential, as long as that potential is needed.
But you're mistaking potential with efficiency.
You can reach your potential efficiently or inefficiently.
I for one don't care how you do it as long as you do it.
And once you're there, the path really doesn't matter anymore. You already reached your potential. That being said, the potential of one person is not the potential of all.
I'm not like my stupid math teacher that flunked a kid for using a different method to solve a problem than the one thought in school.
The kid solved the problem correctly. That's what matters.
sometimes, when a coin is flipped, it never lands at all
you dont take well to reasoning, so i'll use an example.
Compare a piano and a xylophone, both essentially the same instrument.s
However, you can play sheet-music on a piano without looking down at the keys, because your hands are there already.
On a xylophone, you have to look down at the keys to make sure you're striking the correct note.
In this example, a piano would be keybinding, and a xylophone would be clicking.
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fixed, lol
to your original point - that kind of data does exist in the pro leagues. I've never followed WoW arena at the pro levels, that would be a good place to start.
Having spent a considerable amount of time following MLG and GSL starcraft, it would be very misinformed to say they could stay competitive only through clicking.
I know its a differnt game, but SWTOR and SC2 are both about efficient play over time, whether it be actions per minute or damage per second.
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That kind of data does nothing really support your points. A better way to do it would be:
saying that the majority of bad players are binders is hardly data. That was more directed at the post you quoted.
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Yeah I understand that there is value in keybinds but I just can't get used to it. And also, when I mean in a rush I mean like my hand isnt really close to my mouse.
not trying to be mean, but that's a personal problem.
For me, personally, i could never get used to switching my directional keys from wasd to esdf. You know, its the same thing, just shifted over, but with more access to your numbers.
I am aware that i could be playing better by using esdf, but i still use wasd. While i may not use esdf myself, i'm not going to advocate that my preferred playstyle is better than that.
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If you think I'm advocating mediocrity, you're far more ...... than i thought.
if i had a dollar for every time someone called me an ellipses!
your definitely not advocating that people play to their highest potential. What do you want me to say, that your advocating an inefficient playstyle and terrible gaming habits?
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a long time ago, i got kicked from a guild for sub-par dps.
It wasn't because i didn't take the time to learn my class
It wasn't because i refused to improve my play
It wasn't because i refused to take advice from fellow guildies
It wasn't because i was guilded with jerks
it was because of dps meters. And i hate them.
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I have E set to my spam and I may hit 1-5 here and there if I'm in a rush to kill someone. Other than that I'm a pure clicker lol. I've been getting top 3 in damage in all the wz's I've been in.
so you do understand there is definite value in keybinds, as you dabble in them.
What if you're always in a rush to kill someone, wouldn't keybinds be the way to go?
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lol this has been stated many times..
But I tried in the past few days to get used to keybinds and I simply cannot. I'm so used to clicking. I've been clicking ever since I started MMO's (Guild Wars beta). I really cannot be a keybinder xD But its good to see so many opinions here.
People have the right to play they want to play. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they have to do what you want them to do. Everyone has the right to play the way they feel comfortable to.
i totally agree with your last statement. everyone play how they want.
But seriously, you use no keybindings? You just use wasd on the keyboard and that's it? Not even numbers 1-5? Not criticizing just curious.
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Alright please go to this poll and vote if you're a clicker or a
keybinder! I want to get some stats
you should edit the first post and add the link to the poll.
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negative.
as much as i love my smuggler, im going to wait until the game is finished (or at least up to par with other MMOs) before i resub.
I started playing Global Agenda (f2p, or $20 purchase) and i have been having a blast. Too bad Bioware decided to copy WoW and not Global Agenda.
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Thank you for your wonderful and constructive post.
When you have anything to back up your statement of limitless epeen let me know.
Like i said so many times before, i don't care if you're a binder (or not), if you're not good/skilled enough for the content no amount of key-binds will save you. Most people applying for hard-core guilds are binders (since the majority of the players are binders) and they get rejected/fail trials on a daily basis like flies to a light bulb.
There is no point to being a binder if you're not efficient, and most binders aren't.
Binding or not, being fine with not being the best is lowering your "skill-ceiling," if you will. Skill ceiling, being defined as your top potential ability to play.
Now, i am not content until i have become the best. While i may never acheive my top, maximum potential, my ceiling is higher than yours, thus so is my potential.
and saying a binder is inefficient is also a baseless and ill-informed claim.
"Clickers"
in General Discussion
Posted
when you tell people that clicking is the best way to go, i can't help but think you are spreading misinformation.
Play how you want, first and foremost, but if you want to get into playing ergonomically, relying on clicking is doing yourself a disservice.