Stupiddrummer
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Posts posted by Stupiddrummer
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The content should be unfinished, as progressing the story is the point of an RPG. The game, UI, tools, and features should be there to make the game enjoyable from release.
Having to change my camera zoom every time I turn is not fun.
Making my camera reset every time I run forward is not fun.
Constantly questioning what hit me and why I died is not fun.
Not being able to move my UI elements around is awful.
The GTN is frustrating as anything.
No high res textures - not fun.
Can't take more quests because log is full of greyed out quests that can't be abandoned hinders gameplay.
People missing from raid frames hurts gameplay.
No macros means my bars are full and ugly.
Not knowing how much damage I do and how to tweak my spec is lame.
None of these things has to do with content, story, or character progression. Basic UI elements and tools that allow you to control your character are missing or frustrating. Sorry, I don't buy the argument 'it's supposed to be bad so it can be improved'. We are supposed to deal with crap so that when we get the good version we have something to compare it to? No, that's totally ridiculous.
Hey! This guy gets it!
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someone posted this earlier in the thread, but its a good question.
Which is easier? Typing on a keyboard or clicking an onscreen keyboard?
but yeah, play how you want. I'm not one to complain about free kills
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vote no for combat logs.
Combat logs killed my father and hid my television remote. They called me mean once too. I'm pretty sure combat logs are also racist.
If they add combat logs, it will ruin the immersion. I like not knowing what killed me. In real life, do you ever find out what kills you? HELL NO!
Also, The Mask. You know with Jim Carrey? It was really a metaphor for combat logs. If you put in combat logs (aka "The Mask") you lose all self control and begin to belittle the non-competitive players in multiplayer video game. It ruins society.
I also hate numbers.
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Actually, Bioware does see the value of combat metrics. This is why they are adding personal combat logging into the game for players.
The fact that they have the foresight and care with respect to combat log data abuse in other MMOs shows that they actully are mindful of protecting their player base from such abuse as has become common in other MMOs.
Just because you do not agree with their approach to some aspect of their MMO design does not invalidate their approach. It only invalidates it for you.
If they saw the value, they would have been in from launch (or not removed from beta, apparently). If they saw the value, i'd be able to check them in game, not alt-tabbed in an output text file.
They are protecting a player base that doesn't fully appreciate combat metrics. Which is fine, if you enjoy the game without worrying about numbers. But im willing to bed, these same people are the ones that get to 50 and stop playing.
and MMO is built around continuous play, even after maxing the level. This game is not.
edit; moderators are hard at work today. I'll be back to check this later, if the thread isn't doubleplus uncreated.
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IMHO when metrics are relied upon so heavily it takes the GAME part out of the MMO. Yeah they can be helpful for those looking to improve, but its like this (To ME):
Imagine watching Star Wars (Any of them) and instead of seeing a seamless feature you have to watch the camera turn, see the mic grip guy, and hear George Lucas give the actors ques during a cut scene etc...
Metrics are delving into the mechanics/grey-matter of the brain of the game, and yeah some people like that, but for me it RUINS the feel of what SHOULD BE an adventure.
If I wanted to bandy about mathematics I would go be an Engineer.
This is why I love seeing BW implement a PRIVATE system.
part of the game of an MMO is complex metrics. It may not be fun to you, but it is fun to me.
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Sounds like your fundamental needs in an MMO are not being met with this MMO. Maybe a little genuine self-reflection and you will conclude the same thing and find something you actually enjoy.
None of which has anything to do with this specific topic. You are using the topic as a soapbox to express your unhappiness about this MMO.
Firstly, since posting in this thread yesterday, I have installed Global Agenda. That game is actually pretty fun (and has combat logs lol).
Secondly - it may have been a tangent - but the original point was if Bioware doesn't see the value in combat metrics, a lot of their other video games ideas are probably also flawed.
Edit; Thirdly - personal reflection - how much displeasure am i willing to subject myself to in order to satiate my love for star wars
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Just out of curiosity, why play this game and not one that has more of the features you want. Combat logs, especially the kind you like, have seemed very unlikely for inclusion in most dev comments since back before release.
I came here for two things: Star Wars and an MMORPG
The game is filled with Star Wars stuff. Just not MMORPG stuff.
and before you say something like "yeah well this isn't every MMORPG," this game is WoW with a star wars coat of paint, and the freaking innovation of "hey lets get rid of that pesky auto attack...people like mashing buttons right?"
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You seem to be missing that they did not make or intend to make what you define as an MMO. SWTOR is what gets made when BioWare starts with a clean sheet and tries to designn an MMO and then uses existing methods to make the MMO they would make.
You want to play a WoW-like playstyle in a different type of game. BioWare chose not to go head to head for the type of player wanting that expererience. This game is more about experienceing a story than it is accomplishment.
If that's the case i have no idea what im paying $15 a month for. I pay $15 a month for an MMO, if it's not what it's advertising then I'm being swindled.
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This wall....such a tall wall....a massive obstacle. After unsuccessfully attempting to scale it with one character I moved one. Hoping that my next attempt would be successful, that I could see what is on the other side of the wall. That if I made it over I would find myself in good company, and things would be bright and sunny! So I set off, on a new adventure, determined to find another way over.
The wall. The wall would not have it.
I scratched, I climbed, I kicked! I yelled, I ran, I even had a sit.....at the wall. All the while the wall just stood, mocking I and all those who now sit with me.
Is this it? Is this the end? Level 50 again? I thought this was End Game, not End of The Game.
The Wall.......
hah. well done.
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-nods-
It's not a good feeling when the developers have a different view than you do. I've been in that boat a lot when it comes to cross server stuff and other hot topics.
it's also not a good feeling when developers have less experience playing an MMO than you
I'm just butt-hurt, cuz when i look at the game now, the only thing that keeps me playing is that it is still Star Wars. I like Star Wars so much that i am willing to put up with all this crap.
And after I've stopped playing this game, i think i will come out liking star wars less than when i started.
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Eh, that's part of their schtick.
there's a lot that they don't get about MMO's, but the fact that they've made the voice acting thing part of their niche isn't one of them.
it shows they dont understand the amount of time each player puts in the game.
After a certain amount of time, hearing your protocal droid spout one of his 5 lines is going to get annoying. And after even more time, you're going to forget that characters are speaking in the first place.
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The reason combat parser applications exist is to take that text and put it automatically into nice colorful pictures for you to review.
You need never look at the actual log file, ever. This is not DAOC circa 2000 here.
So you think it makes sense to add a tool into the game...that you cannot use in the game?
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The biggest issue to me, is that if Bioware doesn't understand the value of combat logs, combat metrics, and real time feedback, then there is probably a lot of things about MMOs they do not understand.
Like voice acting? cuz my biggest complaint about WoW is definitely the voice acting. MAN! Bioware sure gets MMOs!
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You make good points, those calling for real-time combat logs seem to assume that everyone wants to discuss the game mechanics while playing. Some players just want to run the missions and analyze later while still others don't want to break their story-oriented play down to numbers at all. Those numbers will be available soon but, largely behind the scenes where many players prefer them.
you people only think it's a good idea because you're not going to be sifting through output text files.
Why not just give us real time numbers? It's not like every time i level up, i have to alt-tab to check a text file to see how many hit points my character increased.
This game is a WoW clone that doesn't understand why what WoW does works.
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Not all of us have time to even play with a guild. Heck, it's why dungeon finder tools are so popular. It allows people to play group content without any ties to the other players. That way, they can play the way they want to for those few hours without having other people trying to pull them in 4 or 5 different directions.
Also, if you're in a good guild, the system that they're going to implement will work just fine for you anyway. Heck, you will probably be talking about your logs over vent when you wipe to figure out what happened.
Bioware is trying to cater to both audience here. You have the data required to clear that nightmare mode and I have the ability to have a fun group experience without giving jerks fuel to belittle the other part members.
You're absolutely right. WoW was a cess-pool of hate until the almighty cross server LFD was introduced and cooperation and friendship were spread faster than a chuck norris joke.
The logs are inconvenient. I want real time meters, just like the other MMOs.
Bioware is trying to cater to people that never played an MMO before, by making the game not an MMO. Dedicated MMO players are going to realize there is nothing to aspire for in this game, and leave for another game were people appreciate progress.
This game needs dedicated/hardcore people to increase the games longevity, or else you're going to have a consumer base that lvls to 50 and stops playing.
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clickers are fine. If your doing your job your fine.
However, keybinds will always be better than clicking at everything. Do you see pro-starcraft players clicking on all their buildings to build units? No, they hotkey all of them.
And yes, you can keybind everything.
The best clicker can be effective, however the best clicker will never be as good as the best keybinder.
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I think their current plans are perfect. A log you and only you can save to disk and see. I'm sure someone will write a program to parse a whole guild full of logs together if you so desire.
People managed guilds before there were combat meters. If you can't handle it, I suggest you step aside and make room for someone who can.
but why not just give us the same combat logs/dps meters that are already in other MMOs?
the way theyre planning on implementing it is exactly how i want to play star wars...alt-tabed, searching through speadsheets to see who just saved my life with that last second heal in the wz.
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It is pretty much decided but the mere addition of personal logs ruins the game anyway. As per usual you will have about a dozen people who will post their numbers, stats, and rotation so the wow flunkies can play better, so yea
The fact is that all of the information is in the game dmg cooldowns etc and people do not want to learn their character or their abilities or what anything does they will just copy what some others (who actually learn to play) are doing
Makes no difference if they are group or personal the damage is going to be done either way
Can wait for the posts I did X dps on X target, followed by 200 posts about what is your rotation what is you crit rating what weapon are you using etc
So many wow baddies are just salivating for 1.2
They should just remove all the numbers in the game. Who needs objective indicators of progress? Who likes factual feedback anyway? Who cares about damage if i have a lightsaber? amirite?
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no stories .. been playing a while on mmos... and this will work badly when peeps realise it becomes work ... elitism for casuals oft kills fun ... many guilds will pick the cream and cull the weaker ... but I am sure u know that
i played WoW for 5 years. I ran with a good guild (and for only like, 2 of those years). I played my role and was respectful. I avoided bad players. Never encountered any of these "alienated by numbers" situations.
its all about the person. You're going to run into jerks in games. There were more jerks in WoW because WoW just had an ungodly amount of players. Its simple statistics.
It's up to you to choose to play with mean or nice people. I don't see what dps meters have anything to do with this.
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As it should be. There have been many posts (some of them in the SWTOR forums) that what ruined WoW was the LFG tool. No, what ruined WoW was DPS meters and the armory. Once there was a 'tool' that could be used as a weapon to single out and discriminate against a player because they weren't doing the 'dps they should be doing' or have the very best gear, that's what ruined WoW.
The best thing SWTOR could do is to NOT provide any enhancements or addons that allow players to compare gear or performance numbers of any kind from one player to the next. Players find enough things to snipe at each other about. Don't add fuel to the fire.
combat logs and dps meters existed in WoW long before armory and cross server LFD.
nice try though.
I've said it so many times.
DPS meters /= bad behavior
People that behave badly = bad behavior
What is the saying? Guns dont kill people?
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last game I played there was both in game and these read out of game meters. The out of game ones were considered "more efficiant" and results were often requested by some guild leaders over vent... can you guess what happened to those who didnt meet the basic dps? Also can you guess what happened to many who got tired of meeting the dps requirements for some guilds?
Yup ... they were chucked others just left...
Mmm popcorn ...
go on...i'd like to hear some more stories you just made up.
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And we're back to this? Is it not obvious to you by now that I play these games to have FUN and not to hear a bunch of elitists brag and or whine about trivial things? Whether it's me or someone else in the group being blasted due to so so DPS is irrelevant. If the groups downing bosses, mr elite DPSer needs to keep his trap shut and let the group have a good time. DPS meters gives him fuel for his fire. That is simply the way it is in games with DPS meters. The whole "You don't want them because you suck!" argument is weak and tired. If that's the case, most of the people in this thread "suck" as most of us don't want them. We don't want all of the drama that comes along with DPS meters just so some people can show off their epeen.
The fact is, we're all posting on the forum right now. With that being the case, most of us also probably check out guides on how to properly play our classes. I'm sure most of the anti-meters people in this thread would have perfectly respectable DPS and if not, would know where to go to check to see what they're doing wrong. Most of us aren't worried about whether we'll be bashed for bad DPS. We just don't want every group we have going forward to get bogged down in such things.
So, there you go. You guys can stop with the "OMG, you just suck! That's why you're anti meters!" arguments. They hold no weight at all.
again, if you dont like dps meters, dont use them. I don't see why that isn't a feasible option. I dont care about your performance. I care about MY performance. I want detailed information about what I am doing.
edit. I also want that information provided to me in-game. Not alt-tabing to copy a text file into excel
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ITT:
an awful lot of people that have never had a raid on farm status.
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no, because chewie and leia were both putting out good dps
ba-zing!
"Clickers"
in General Discussion
Posted
have fun stagnating. I'm off to be the best i can be at everything i do.