Stupiddrummer
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Posts posted by Stupiddrummer
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How about the little girls that were turned in to sex slaves?
dude. tangent much?
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One comment or question if Wow is the best and you enjoy that game then why are you playing SWTOR?
Just curious.
WoW is the game SWTOR wants to be. I wish that weren't the case, but it is.
I play SWTOR because i like Star Wars. I would enjoy the game even more if combat logs and dmg metrics existed. Especially since i play dps, i want more depth behind my efforts besides "shoot at thing, it dies."
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i'm sorry but this one is just bugging me so i have to jump on it......
after all these post saying you only accept infallible evidence you jump in with a "WoW has 10 million players therefor 10 million people love combat logs" post. sorry that one just bugged the hell out of me and had to point it out.
right, 10 million people either love combat logs, have learned to co-exist with a culture of facts and empirical data, or are completely ignorant of the numbers and still manage to play.
edit; if the culture was that bad, WoW wouldn't be boasting such impressive numbers.
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That really depends on how you define 'best'.
It boils down to the old McDonald's vs other restaurants argument. If for you, best = have the most customers, yes, WoW it is the best.
read slightly further past the part you underlined and you'll see how i defined "best."
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-shrugs-
If it was just one or two people making an anecdotal claim, you would have a point. However, the behavior in this very thread and others like it by the people that want to kick "baddies" and judge their performances is really all the proof one needs to see they nothing is being made up.
So every poster in this thread that had a bad experience compared to the 10 million subscribers WoW still has..hmmmmmmmmm.
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Evidence?
Look not further...it's 3 words long...
World Of Warcraft
WoW is still the best MMO on the market (in that it is the one all the others are compared to).
I wouldn't say metrics hurt that game.
Also. Combat logs and metrics have been in WoW since vanilla. When do people that complaining about the game? When cross server LFD was introduced? When gearscore was introduced?
combat logs never did anything to nobody.
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I don't know if anyone is really wanting to deny people anything. I think it's more that people want the game to be better and they have a vision of what that should be. The fallout being, it effects the game play of others.
i would call wanting to deny people combat metrics "denying" something.
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No, by closed minded I am saying not having the ability to see the validity of the opposing view. You're statement that people are tying to deny you things is just more proof that you only think of yourself in the argument, which is another clue to being closed minded.
In the end though you were half right with your original post. The min/maxers will be effected if they do not get their way. In that they do not have a complete picture of everyone's output in an encounter.
The other side if they do not get their way will be subject to what can be an emotional and visceral impact on their game if/when the tool is abused.
I doubt many min/maxers will quit if the lack of numbers effects them, and I doubt very seriously that any will log off the game in tears. The other side though, I know people will quit and I have seen very adverse effects to players personally and emotionally do to abuse of the tools.
Boths sides have made their pitch long ago on this, quite thoroughly. I have a hard time putting any relevance in arguments that do not recognize both sides.
That's because there is no validity in anectodal evidence and forum hearsay. Validity requires actual evidence to support a claim.
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A game can survive without heavy metrics.
SWTOR has what many other MMOs don't have, and that's a strong story and focus on lore and cinematic scenes.
I think some of us are just sick of metrics players taking over every aspect of MMOs these days, it's disheartening to see creativity and tam work, replaced by cold statics and precision based rotations, with no pause for human error.
It has a chilling effect on the whole game.
you know what else has a chilling effect on the game? When the players hit max lvl and stop playing.
Edit; and when i say game, i mean MMO.
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Denying? How do you get someone wanting their preference in a game as them wanting to "deny" anyone anything?
and if by close-minded, you mean i refuse to acknowledge that people will abuse the information provided by dps meters..well yes, that may happen, unfortunately. Griefing has existed as long as gaming has (Looking at you, battle-toads) But if its not the meters, it will be something else, BECAUSE THATS WHAT JERKS DO!
And when a jerk starts saying your dps blows, you can throw the information from your combat log back in his face to prove him wrong.
and if by close-minded, you mean i refuse to acknowledge, that only through the addition of combat metrics, can a culture of metric-centric gaming and mid/maxing emerge. That is also correct.
But frankly, the people of this ideology will play their way, and you'll play your way and the two of you won't interact very much. However, without a culture of metric-centric gaming and min/maxing, this game will lose it's lasting power and ultimately go the way of many other failed MMOs
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Well, if you intend to argue with a closed mind, that's fine. It will not help you make your case though as half of your argument will be based on an incorrect personal belief. The people that have been arguing about adverse effects to groups due to "meters" are not just making it up. And Bioware recognized it as well.
EDIT: You've made some good posts in the past, and I think you'd be better at making your case if you could just see the other sides point of view.
I'm closed minded? What do you think trying to deny people access to already in-game information is?
Its like the pot calling the kettle black, only the pot cant because the kettle wont give him access to the information to actually prove he's black.
edit
Edit has evolved into Post!
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No, it actually influenced Biowares choice to implement the logs the way they did. The argument is not invalid at all. If you choose to ignore it, you're the one that is in the wrong, thus you're assumption for #2 was wrong, making your post conclusion invalid.
The fact that it influenced Bioware's opinion is the reason I'm still posting in this thread.
I'm not going to play a game where design choices are dictated by ghost stories about in game metrics overturning the in-game society.
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What do I need to explain more than what others have already done?
because that line of reasoning is based on nothing more than fear and emotion.
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#2 assumption of no ill effects is wrong.
go on...
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Actually it does change, because the whole community will change around the non-combat log players. Thing will get really mean, really fast, and PUGs will become a distant dream.
Eventually things will get so out of control that the Devs may have to streamline every single talent, and all classes into one 'no fail' set of stats, that way new players wont get so frustrated with 'making mistakes'. Abilities will be reduced to only those that are 'useful' or the highest damage output.
Then comes the LFD and LFR because new and old content will just rot away. Then comes the teir badge gear, and the teir badge grind, and then it feels less like a game....and more of a stats calculation to max level.
Nothing changes? No, sadly, everything changes. Because it will be all about the metrics, all the time.
and fire will rain from the sky!!! doom i tell you doom!!!
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well duh they were in a ranged space battle luke was a melee class......
man, if only there was evidence to back up your unsubstantiated claim!
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It's amazing that you can be so certain without having seen the data. Must have been on the blue-ray.
i think what you're looking for is:
Han and Luke are shooting down Tie Fighters from the Falcon.
Luke begins consistently hitting more Tie Fighters than Han.
Han exclaims, "Don't get cocky!!" Followed by posting the damage meters, showing that even though Luke is doing more damage now, Han is still ahead on dps and has been contributing more the whole time.
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There are two scenarios:
1) Combat metrics aren't added, the game stays the same. People that don't care for metrics are happy. People that do care about metrics are not. Who's losing in this? The people that want combat metrics.
2) Combat metrics are added. The people that requested them get to use them. They are happy. The people that don't care about metrics do not use them, and continue playing as they were.
In scenario two, the outcome for the person against combat logs remains the same as the person in scenario one. Nothing changes for them.
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Don't you remember when Han told Chewy he had to pick up his DPS or he was going to kick him for Lando?
Haha, no. Because, like always, Chewy's dps was fine and consistent. So Han didn't have to say anything.
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Simply not true in all cases. If I run a BT HM today, we could bring any other DPS and still finish the FP if the only thing they do is the required dialogue interactions.
if its only dialogue interactions, you may be better off running the combat log parser just to make sure their dps is up to par...you know, just because.
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For the record, the above quote is your response to another posters response to my response to the question you are referring to. Please read the thread more closely before whining about being ignored.
yeah look up like 5 posts i responded to your response about my response to his response about your response.
response.
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That is fantastic, but it is rare for someone to use an off-FOTM spec and not get ridiculed for it, at least in WoW, as that is what the major comparison for this game is.
its only rare if you play with people that dont think the same as you.
read the very 3rd post on the first page of this thread.
EDIT; very 3rd, 2nd is a mod post.
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Way to misconstrue my words completely. I said they were different things, I said nothing about disregarding the wishes of my group or it's success in what you quoted from me.
In the case where I enjoyed myself while not pulling my weight, I daresay the whole group of players enjoyed the experience too. The enjoyment had little to do with pulling weight or even our success but, the general interaction between the players. Conversely, I am sure most of us have thoroughly tedious runs where we likely pulled more than our weight. Enjoyment and "pulling your weight" are independent.
pulling your weight is being defined as putting in your 1/4 of effort to accomplish the goals for the group.
If you are not pulling your weight the groups goals are unable to be accomplished.
What is so hard about this?
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So you agree.... there is no need to add one.
by change anything i mean it wouldn't have any negative effects.
There is no NEED, just like there is no NEED for keybinds. But they sure are nice and make my life easier and my game more enjoyable.
PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Stupiddrummer
jerks are jerks. ii dont see what it has to do with numbers.