Xcore
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Posts posted by Xcore
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Oh come now, I know you don't mean all these complaint threads from the kids, do you?
Really though, I hope you guys aren't listening to the forums as much as actual in-game feedback. To this day, no matter what planet i'm on, when I ask in the general chat about the forums, everyone agrees that the forums is definitely NOT a place to go to get a good opinion on the game. It seems so full of babies and impatient nerds, demanding constant endgame content because you guys are obviously robots that are suppose to give us what we want all the time. /rollseyestosarcasm
Still only lvl 30, been playing since early access, and still enjoying the hell out of this game! Know you have a satisfied customer right here Bioware!
The forums are an Incredibly valuable place for a developer to get feedback... of course there are trolls and such but this get issue is a perfect example of why it Is important for a developer to not only take serious their own forums but also have an open dialogue with their playerbase. This Is something I believe Bioware still needs to improve upon and perhaps take lessons from CCP...
I think Bioware needs to still learn the difference between single player and MMO, not only how to design but also handle relations to playerbase....
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Update
Hey all, just wanted to give you (who care) a little update on the video that I am working on regarding this subject. I have completed the draft of 8 points I want to address as well as subscenes (22). All footage required has also been taken and my WoW sub is cancelled once more.
Sadly my work week is very busy and I only have a small window of time that I can dedicate to this project during the week. Nonetheless, I do believe it to be worth it and hope it helps Bioware as well.
I hope to be able to dedicate my weekend to this and finalize...
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xcore, I agree with your thread 100% and wanted to know if you knew anything or heard anything about the link between collision detection and a larger hit box on toons?
Let me explain.
In alderaan and nar shadaa there is a place where larger frame toons cant fit threw certain places because of bad game design. For example, a datacron hidden behind a crack in the door. There was a question brought up if a toons frame is bigger (again not fitting through certain spaces, hence collision detection) does this mean there hit box is bigger to?
I find this question a bit interesting. Of course if a larger frames toon has a bigger hit box, wouldnt that make it a kind of unfair in taking AoE damage for example or PvP?
This is a different topic altogether actually and WoW had/has it still. For example tauren had this issue, blizzard corrected this but not completely. For example, a tauren on a mount still won't fit through the same door as a gnome.
The fix isn't really to equalize all hitboxes exactly but rather adjust them a little better (to be closer to the same) and most importantly make sure that all hitboxes can reach all areas and fit the same places.
I don't think this will be a problem for too long as its a simple fix on Character Model as well as location specially.
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wanting to see that vid Xcore im eager to see what you´ve been workin on.
Yea, I only had some of Saturday to work on so far but the sequences are in place and I believe it'll do a good job of highlighting the nature of this "clunky" feeling we discuss. Also, I had to re-sub to WoW for footage but I got what I wanted so...
I'll work on it after work and do my best to release soon
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JUST FYI.. Titan is supposed to be some shooter mmo lamer like APB MMO
blizzard has teamed up with MWF or something like that...
Info..
Friend works at bliz
1) lol @ source
2) If blizzard is doing it, it will either A) be amazing or B) Not be released at all or until made amazing...
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amg guys please lets not even respond to the clickers. They dont feel it because they click.
They dont feel it because they have no concept of rotation. The dont feel because they love to watch animation. ect.....
I can not wait to see Xcores video he is going to be linking soon.
Hey Tinker, its coming along. I've had a family event to attend to and back to work tomorrow.... I want to make sure I cover multiple angles and issues that contribute to this effect of disconnect with the Avatar.
I think the wait will be worth it, I hope...
I'll be working on it as much as possible and get it out soon...
I do believe that those who say that "there is no problem" will continue to do so long after it has been fixed/addressed etc.
2014 (SW:TOR is the new market leader in the genre *Because Titan is still "Soon tm"*)
Dude 1: "Oh wow! this game is amazing!... the combat is so epic!"
Dude 2: "Yea, its pretty good... wasn't always the case though. For a little while after launch, it was a slow, sluggish..."
Dude 3: "NO IT WASN'T!, I played since Beta... I NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES!"
Dude 2: "Omg... not this again"
Dude 3: "Prove it! It was just a few people.... probably their computers"
Dude 2: "Oh nice, Arena Rating there buddy..."
Dude 3: "Of course, you'd be an elitist jerk"
Dude 2: "You're terrible..."
Dude 1: "Ummm, any of you guys know how much a speeder is?"
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Hey Xcore, when are you going to release the video?
Ive been following this whole thread everyday since the 7 page of the first thread ever made and im pretty sure the video youre making will blow my mind too
.Also, I wanted to thank you for all youve done
Thank you, all footage is there, intro sequence is complete (nearly, still needs to go through After Effects etc.) and then its the main stuff that needs to get put in sequence etc.
Not too much editing needed for the main duration of the video as it will have commentary.
Speaking of which, that has to get added afterwards as well...
I'm a bit busy tomorrow sadly but I was hoping to make some progress to get it out asap. It'll be posted here a well as in the OP. Sorry I can't be more specific but if you ever PM me on the forums here, I always answer... if you need status updates etc.
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All of those abilities are off the GCD and totally ignore cast animations. Bioware is more than capable of removing the character responsiveness issues!
My incoming video will blow your mind in that case...
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Yeah. Here it is
What you linked was to Xcoregam1ng or something.
My bad, fixed
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You linked the wrong link btw
Can you provide the correct one again please? much appreciated...
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Do you have a rough ETA for the vid? I'm both curious and excited ;d
in Premiere Pro right now... theres quite a bit of footage and I want it to cover several different areas... also still need to record voice over etc.
Not tonight... I"ll be working on it likely all night lol and we'll see where its at tomorrow.
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That would be super cool. Looking forward to it.
I'm incredibly happy by this find, I have been recording all day long and have hours of WoW and SW:TOR footage... I want to gather some more on specifics here or there but in general, I am happy to have some meaningful proof that it is absolutely possible for this engine to feel just as responsive as WoW.
And it appears to not damage the quality of animations.... though more testing needs to be done on that and discussion etc. The example I will provide has no animation clipping or issues though so there is hope.
P.S.: A working combat log with time-stamp would've helped TONS.... ****
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Thought I'd post this here to add to the videos listed on the front page.Very frustrating as a Jugg, I hope they fix it soon... as in NOW soon.
Yes thank you, i experience this every single warzone... I will add it to OP...
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EVERYONE -- I HAVE PROOF THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO FIX THIS ENTIRE ISSUE -- STAND BY
I am in the midst of creating a full breadth analysis in video form... I even re-subbed to WoW to do so... please stand by while I gather more gameplay footage, specifics and edit etc.
I am absolutely not exaggerating that I have proof of the potential to "absolutely" replicate WoW like Character Response... "it appears without damaging animations"...
Edit: I should note that the video also contains Top PvPers (2800+ Rating) as well as Top250 World PvErs...
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No offense good sir, but so does thinking that creating a thread on a message board about a game, concerning an issue that thousands have experienced as well as yourself, was actually important.
I can see how all the praise (lol?) from people that were unable to string three sentences together to describe the issue could have gone to your head.
PS - If you want to quit an MMO - Quit. Don't keep going back to it like a junkie that didn't enjoy switching from crack to heroin. That's just silly.
What are you going on about? creating a thread on a message board about a game you care to play for years as a hobby is important to me... and many others... why is unhealthy or illogical?
P.S.: Why would I want to quit an MMO? I want to make the MMO better and more successful as a whole... when did I say I want to quit?
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How about fixing slicing again so its not a worthless waist of time skill for peoeple who dont want to craft
How about getting out of a thread you have no understanding of? Stop trying to wave **** in their face that is completely irrelevant to the OP and topic at hand.
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Only posting those specs because of the gentleman citing driver problems. I figured I'd say what hardware I'm using so they can narrow down which drivers if there is a problem on that end.
I'm sure there are drive issues at this stage of release... I'm not disagreeing just stating that I don't believe them to be the crux of this general problem here.
I still see green beams and tree flutter... though I have not updated my drivers, new ones came out few days ago... I'm running 560 OC 2GB etc.
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Actually, it's already evident that isn't the game for you. You seem to think there's some deep problem with the "game engine". If so, it will never be "fixed" to your satisfaction, so you might as well give up your crusade now.
Perhaps you could go back to that game with jerky little cartoon elves, at which you seem to be oh so leet, and in which you seem to have invested oh so much time ...
(Two can play that game, sonny
)I don't know what sonny means but I will let Bioware tell me the above statement that this isn't the game for me, not you...
I will be happy in fact to go back to WoW as it has been "very" tempting over the past week. Bioware need only let me know... so far, it appears they're acknowledging everything this thread stands for. Lets see what happens, I have no problem with this being fixed to my/and many people's satisfaction and play SW:TOR forever... or if they you do turn out to be right and it is not fixed to my/our satisfaction... I'll simply play WoW, no harm done...
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Just for the record, the problem is minimal on my GTX 580. My brother has serious problems with dual 9800GTs and another system with an 8800GT. All three are using the latest NVidia drivers for their respective cards.
Hope this helps, Bioware!
Its not a hardware issue, its the game. However, natural server lag/lag spikes or simply slow computers providing low FPS further compound the issue to be EVEN MORE noticeable. This is natural and logical... slow + slow = HOLY **** SLOW...
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I actually agree with your first point, that's the main problem I'm experiencing sometimes: with no lag or lag spike present, abilities don't initiate when you expect them to but are delayed. And sometimes there's some kind of glitch in the GCD, and other problems that mean that, on occasion, the system becomes what I call "unresponsive" for short periods.
But I don't experience it all the time. There are swathes of time when abilities do initiate as soon as the key is pressed, and combat is smooth and flowing (bar the very occasional lag spike).
But you seem to be claiming that you have some knowledge about the game engine or something, that tells you that there is always a delay, but it's sometimes imperceptible (or perceptible only to uber gamers?)
What I don't understand is, if it's not just a claim about how leet you are to experience something many people don't experience a lot of the time, if it's genuinely not experienced but "masked" in some way so that it's diminished to imperceptibility, how do you know this, how do you know the problem is literally omnipresent but just sometimes not noticeable, as opposed to a bug or something that only sometimes crops up?
I agree with all points, firstly the same ability can display greater and lesser delay at different times. The reason behind this is that its relative to how it is used... for example, I can always show the delay in aimed show when I use a very tight rotation of charge bursts and trickshots followed by an aimed shot.
However, if I just go into cover and use aimed shot, its seemingly fine... but it isn't. Even if "I don't notice" the delay, its still there, or should I say the potential for it is. Its merely masked by the fact that under the circumstances that I am using it, its fine.
I suppose I'm not expressing myself well enough on this point. In WoW for example, there is no way to reliably bug out the system in this fashion. If I spam nothing but frostbolt, or if I do some weird rotation of pyroblast/scorch/fire blast into a frostbolt... it will always trigger the "exact" same way as it should.
Here however, you have the same abilities behaving inconsistently based on previous abilities used, based if you're in cover or not, based on if a seagull is flying above, who knows.
When I say its happening "all the time, to "all" abilities" even if its masked, I mean that the potential for it is always there. Its an issue with how the game is coded, either engine code or client/server comm through network coding... perhaps feature code? I'm not sure, no-one can be besides Bioware or a serious professional.
Also, when I say "all the time its there, even if you don't notice it", I mean that its not just a Bug... the solution is NOT saying "Oh well, we need to fix how Aimed Shot triggers following this rotation of Charge Burst/Trick Shot!"
No, you need to f****** figure out a more reliable system, in which the abilities are perhaps independently "always" consistently performing exactly how you'd expect them to.
This is why "very good" gamers can play WoW without EVER once looking at their abilities bar. Because its SO reliable, so predictable... so stable... no matter what you do, it'll perform EXACTLY how you'd expect. In SW:TOR... well who knows what will bug out, delay, not properly trigger etc. etc.
Its "CLUNKY"
Now, last point... "only uber gamers etc." yes, believe it or not, better and more "competitive" and especially professional gamers... will see all these issues LONG before you and I. Mr. Casual has no idea what we're even talking about probably (not all...). but to someone like Reedful this game is ABSOLUTELY unplayable... because he is just on that level of perception that playing this unreliable, clunky crap is like nails on a chalkboard.
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I'm actually watching neither. I'm watching the enemy's health bar and my surroundings. You know, because I'm actually trying to maintain situational awareness while I'm fighting; I don't need to watch cooldowns because I know what ability I want to use next based on the situation.
I'm not used to mindlessly staring at a toolbar spamming a rotation because I actually try to be more heads-up than that. I find the expectation that I start doing that to be utterly ridiculous.
With all feedback outside the cooldown itself being tied to the animation, the animation being delayed is a huge deal. The next ability not being executable until the animation finishes, which delays my next attack, is also a huge deal.
I'm seriously sick of you trying to trivialize this as being my fault for trying to watch my character do pretty animations. If the animations are so disconnected from the other feedback your UI is giving you that watching the animations is impractical, maybe you actually are experiencing the problem and have no idea because you never look up from your toolbar.
Well put
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What type of control of your character do you want?
In real life, if you were to do x action, could you instantly "cancel" that action and do another?
No.
But that's the type of "responsiveness" Xcore and some others here are looking for.
The type of responsiveness I want is that when I press a key, the avatar does an action that takes a certain amount of time to carry through, and SOME of those actions AREN'T IMMEDIATELY INTERRUPTABLE by another keypress. This simulates weight, mass, momentum, etc.
And I want this to work without glitches related to GCD, ability firing, animation stuttering, etc.
You are correct, as much as I want decent animations if forced to chose I would always prefer gameplay.
I don't think this is the game for you in fact if you are seeking ultra-realism as described above... perhaps if The Sims Online worked out you'd have enjoyed it.
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You DO care about the actual animation, because according to the UI, the ability DID initiate as soon as the castbar from the previous ability finished.
That's the problem, you and I have different standards for what constitutes the ability being 'initiated'.
In my mind, as soon as the ability is accepted by the server as having been used as indicated by the UI, the ability has 'initiated' and I don't need to worry about it anymore.
That *Does* happen immediately, the castbar on the previous ability just takes longer to finish than it should, which makes the first valid keypress not even register.
The second keypress DOES register however, and the ability 'initiates' immediately thereafter. And has its full effects relayed on the UI approximately one second later(Do I need to take another screenshot to demonstrate this?)
The only thing that doesn't 'initate' until the end of the blaster bolt anim is the grenade animation... so what precisely are you using as your standard for 'initiation' if you don't care about the animation, yet say it doesn't 'initiate' until after the blaster anim?
Charged Burst is a castbar ability, not a channeled one. It only has one damage tick, that only goes off after the castbar finishes.
Actually I don't believe that the server registers it the second the castbar of the previous ability has concluded... I believe there to be a .2-.5 delay. Which is my issue with it, the animation also being jarring is another problem that is more cosmetic but still highly important to overall polish.
So I disagree with you analysis of the video that the animation is the only thing that lags, I think its the actual ability itself, the communication from client to server.
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Obviously. The trick being that it's becoming increasingly apparent that what some people see as a problem, some other people see as a beneficial feature.
Yes, there are some bugs that are making the system not look like it should, but that's not the only thing people are complaining about.
Seriously, that smuggler vid, I can't decide if what xcore is complaining about is the fact that the grenade takes two valid clicks to activate (apparently because of a problem with the castbar ability used first hanging for a short time before activating), or if he's complaining about the grenade taking two seconds to actually visibly hit the target, because his descriptions bounce back and forth.
The former I see as a problem that needs to be fixed. The latter I see as a feature that aids immersion by increasing realism, without having any detrimental effect on the mechanics at all.
Now some of the stuff mentioned where stuff is happening out of order IS a problem, but that's different from the animation getting bumped for a second so that it doesn't do something impossible, or just skip an animation entirely.
In any case where it interferes with actual combat, it's a problem. The dispute seems to be about if the fact that the grenade doesn't go flying out of the character's chest as soon as the button is pressed constitutes 'nonresponsiveness'.
The ability initiates too late, as soon as the castbar completes from the previous ability (and GCD isn't on) the next ability should initiate... rather simple...
Don't care about the actual animation... at all... the actual ability is simply not able to initiate because we're busy watching another blaster bolt go (even though the cast bar has concluded and there is no GCD).
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Ways to start a 50 page thread.
in General Discussion
Posted
Or, Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness, get about 600+ pages...