CBRGhostRider
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Posts posted by CBRGhostRider
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The phase walk is only active for 2 minutes... after that it goes on cooldown if you haven't used it by then.
Maybe you tried to use it just as the 2 min timer expired? Then it would seem that you tried to phase walk, but it went on cooldown without doing anything.
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Actually, Shroud isn't supposed to stop the damage from a V-1 Seismic Grenade at all - it's kinetic, not tech or force, damage. Following that, the grenade is probably a kinetic attack, and hence Shroud does not protect against it.
We have
Attack types: melee, ranged, force and tech.
Damage types: Kinetic, energy, internal and elemental.
Any combination of attack type can exist against any damage type (technically at least, though SWTOR may not have all combinations).
Force shroud: Removes all hostile removable effects and increases your chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.
Therefore, 2 possibilities exist:
1. The grenade is a tech/force, and as such should be resisted by shroud. (I don't know if it goes through a *tech* accuracy check as posted above though... that may explain it).
2. The grenade is a ranged (or even melee attack type). In this case, shroud won't resist it... however surprisingly, deflection (+50% defense) should work and we should be able to resist the grenade w/ deflection up (at least a few times)... which has never happened.
Therefore the grenade must be tech, and #1 is the correct scenario.
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Really OP, all classes are hitting hard these days...
Juggs have smash spec, and vengeance is in a really good place now.
Snipers... lol, do i really need to say anything?
Maras carnage and rage both hitting hard as usual, with tons of defensives, nothing new there
PTs... always hit really hard within 10m
While I don't play operatives and sorcs, my friends that do so, tell me that they got some improvements too... not sure how good though.
yes, deception sins are hitting hard... the whole role of that class is to come out of stealth, hit hard, and disappear. They are finally fulfilling the intended purpose nicely, and given that everyone is hitting hard there is nothing game breaking about it...
Heck, even tanks have improved by a fair margin!! I'm looking to play my deception sin and immortal tank the most in PvP.
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Previously, you probably went 18/23 or some such build. You could pick up unstoppable, stance dance, and spec mostly in the dps tree. This is why dps gear worked great for you and you could do decent damage.
Now you cannot pick up unstoppable because it does not work in soresu. Also, vengeance has some great talents higher up in the tree (destroyer and seething hatred), which you would give up by going hybrid. So you pretty much do not want to spec hybrid. Furthermore, shield/absorb works better for pvp now if you are tank specced.
Therefore your options really are:
1. Full Immortal w/ tank gear
2. Full dps w/ dps gear
1. Can I spec Immortal with full dps gear including off hand...or am I looking at tank pvp gear with generator off hand?
Full immortal with dps gear will make you mediocre at both tanking and dps IMO. I would go vengeance/rage w/ dps gear in order to DPS and immortal w/ tanking gear in order to tank. Vengeance still has good survivability, so there is no reason not to go full vengeance w/ dps gear.
2. In doing so, will my damage be insignificant? What about with dps gear?
See above.
3. Can anyone provide a link to a PvP tank 2.0 spec for immortal so I can compare to what my planned build is?
Here is a build I am considering for pvp... I plan to tank w/ tank gear. [the point in unyielding is debatable].
4. Last but not least, is there really no way to make the Immortal/Vengeance Hybrid work as it did before?
Not really. Unstoppable was the crowning jewel of the hybrid build. Sure you can still spec hybrid, but you won't get much out of it anymore. Immortal is beautiful now, w/ some very good talents higher up, which are not worth giving up if you plan to tank. Likewise, vengeance has good talents higher up, which are not worth giving up if you want to dps.
To summarize, I would pick:
1. Full immortal w/ tank gear for pvp tanking
2. Full vengeance w/ dps gear for great single target dps and good survivability in pvp
3. Full rage w/ dps gear for great aoe (and single target) dps
Just my 2c.
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BTW Rule of Two and Thrown Gauntlet are great for pvp
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For pve this is something I'm going to go for:
Vicious Retaliation is something I've always been a bit dubious about. Saber Ward gives me a bit more survivability and Retaliation is basically always getting spammed anyway, so honestly? not sure about it's worth. It's that or Warmonger but there were a couple of instances in normal where I wish I had force charge again to quickly get stuck into the next mob and quickly establish threat etc.
^^^ This is precisely my thinking as well.
Vicious retaliation will be useful 12 sec out of every 150 sec. Also, the retaliation buff will be up anyway (most likely) so the cd reduction isn't going to do much. Save those 2 points for something else.
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Jedi warden would be great for pvp. That spammable slow is awesome. I would also take battlefield command for pvp, but it is debatable I agree.
One thing I would not take is guard and thrust... neither for pvp nor for pve. Saber ward is active for 12 sec out of every 150 seconds. It seems wasteful to me to use 2 points for something that would be used so infrequently (even if you pop saber ward every cd). Chances are you will have the riposte buff up anyway, so I doubt you would get any extra defence from it.
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The new Immortal tree brought tears to my eyes.
Thanks a bunch for finally addressing this tree. So much win all around in immortal:
* Invincible and saber ward cd reduction for tanks (finally!)
* New saber reflect, and increase to 5s for tanks,w/ added threat
* Retaliation crit chance increased
* 15% flat armor increase
* Sonic wall awesome for pve and pvp
* Rule of two great for pvp
* Force charge, disruption cd reductions
* crushing blow enabling retaliation, and also increasing damage reduction
Juggs should easily top protection scores w/ guard, single target taunt, aoe taunt, sonic wall, and intercede. I couldn't care less about lowest overall tank damage, jugg is undisputed pvp protector w/ many good survivability cooldowns as well.
I re-subbed for 2.0 after going over all the changes to the different classes. Yes, losing unstoppable in Soresu really hurt, but whatever... immortal looks really good now. Maybe we can get unstoppable as well for Christmas LOL!
I have 5 different 50s, and looking forward to my immortal jugg and deception assassin the most. Gonna take some time to get used to all the changes since the time I quit last year though...
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Clearly the marauder, PT pyro, and rage juggernaut on the sorc/sage's team needs the bubble stun protection.
Working as intended by Biofail... nothing to see here, move along.
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Juggs are modeled based on Vader, hence the single light saber, and heavy armor.
Assasins are modeled based on darth maul, hence the double bladed lightsaber, and the cool seethe animation.
Marauders are modeled based on asajj ventress with two sabers.
Sorcs are modeled based on palpatine, hence the emphasis on lightning spam.
IMO each class has access to the right weapon, and this makes each class feel unique.
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We need:
1. 5/10/15% increased movement speed talent
2. 30% AoE damage reduction talent
3. 1/2 secs off interrupt cd, and 15/30 seconds off cc breaker
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4. DoTs that actually hurt would be nice too.
5. More armor pen for a tree that does so much white damage.
1, 2, 3 are absolute must haves I think, and simply bring us up to par with other classes middle trees.
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Woot, didn't know this thread existed.
459k protection
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk263/rocksjudas/public/459protection.jpg
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How much less armour do Shadows have, exactly? I'm just asking because Combat Technique increases armour rating by 115% while both Soresu and Ion Cell only increases it by 60%.
I think they sit around 6-6.5k armor and 38-40% DR. My jugg sits at 8k armor and 52.5% DR.
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I would advise you to just level up rage spec, since you are not interested in tanking.
While leveling, for extra survivability in certain encounters, you can run rage in soresu. Once you get your tank companion, you can just run rage in shii-cho. Until then, run w/ a healer in shiicho, or a dps companion in soresu.
In flashpoints, you can safely run rage in shii-cho, do tons of dps, and not worry about survivability since the tank should have the baddies on himself most of the time.
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It is so simple.
Remove auto crit.
And all are happy.
^^^ This really.
On my pyro... explosive fuel +25% crit chance, 2 min cooldown.
On my assassin... recklessness... 2 charges, increase crit by 60% for next 2 force abilities... 1.5min cooldown
On my sniper... laze target... increased next snipe crit chance by 100% (1 attack single target)... 1 min cooldown
On the rage jugg... obliterate 15 sec cooldown, makes next smash auto-crit. AoE attack.
On the rage jugg... charge 15 sec cooldown (can also reset cd with push), makes next smash auto-crit. AoE attack.
Given that charge and obliterate cds can not be increased (especially the former since it would affect all warriors very negatively), the solution is to adjust the auto-crit.
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Imo deception is in a great place right now especially with all the rage/focus specs running loose!
30% aoe damage reduction always/Additional 25% on demand/6% from entropic field/2% from sith defiance = OMG
I think the biggest smash I've seen on me was for 3.2k.
Also let's not forget going 1v1 against the massive influx of assault vanguards/PT pyros. When I see a lone PT pyro guarding a turret in civil war, I giggle, because 10 seconds later the turret is mine. Shroud is just so brutal against PT pyros... and deception burst takes em down quick. We don't even have to be perfect, because we get tons of stuns (spike, low slash, electrocute before his resolve is full) to make him ineffective if we make mistakes.
On my PT pyro, assassins are the class I fear the most due to shroud and force slow, and anni maras next due to their slows (rupture and leg slash). Well and snipers, but that is obvious.
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AOE agro shadow its better
Agreed.
Dose more damage
Agreed.
With correct rotation you heal yourself a lot
Well shadows have self heals. But that is because they have lower armor and DR compared to juggs. Their self heals aren't an addition, they are meant to compensate for low armor. Also we get sonic bubble every 9 secs if specced into it, which isn't too bad.
On bosses with knock back like second boss in LI you do not have to run to him as shadow cannot be knock back ( when using correct rotacion)
Do you mean when you use shroud? BTW this is very minor, and arguably you could do the same thing with a hybrid through unstoppable.
CC its extremely usefully in HM, ops etc juger have none- CC shadow have its very good as allow you to skip almost everything in HM’s allowing to complete them very fast. I have never been told on start of HM yeee we have jugger tank, but with shadow I get always yee we have shadow this will be fast run.
Granted. This is a point in shadow's favor.
Interrupt have 10m rage this to me it very big advantage jugger with 4m interrupt have to relay on adder players a lot. If you guys remember droid boss in LI before they did make him easy, with jugger was always pain to do him when you drag him around a room if he did drop bubble you have to move him but sometimes he can not be move when he does his cast you move away to not stand inside buble then he cast his fire and then as a jugger you have to run inside bubble to interrupt. Shadow have no problem with this as he have 10 m range same its with malgus in FE sometimes he will jump away and then start casting if none of udder players interrupt with jugger all are death with shadow again no problem. there is few more examples but this 2 should give you picture why 4 m suck. So interrupt in my opinion its huge advantage, as a tank I like to be in control of battle but with 4 m interrupt sometimes I have to rely on party members and with random group this does not work always.
Interrupt has 10m range, but 12 sec cooldown for shadow. 10 sec if you spec into the talent in deception tree, which most tanks won't since they go for chain shock in madness. This is generally true for most classes. The longer the range on your interrupt, the longer the cooldown. I can't tell you how awesome an 8-sec interrupt is in pvp, but then again this is a pve discussion.
BTW for the droid boss, even if he stops chasing you, you should keep running forward. When he starts to cast incinerate, you charge him to interrupt him. Even if you jump into a bubble by charging him, unstoppable will give you 20% additional DR, so you hardly take any damage. This stands true for any scenario. If you are between 5-10m, you move AWAY from the target and then charge to interrupt.
Pull its next one which give advantage to shadow. We all have push, jugger have leap shadow have run. But jugger have no pull we have intercede but pull its better. if I see agro on healer I can very fast pull target to me. On my jugger I can intercede to healer and then jump back to my previous target but this take sometimes too long and with good DPS you will lose agro too DPS when doing this so then you need to use taunt. So it’s much more work, shadow will just pull without moving any ware, this method its nice fast just much better.
Different skillset, yes pull is much easier, but you can achieve the de-aggro effect with intercede+charge like you noted. Anyway, AoE and trash tanking isn't really important endgame, single target tanking is way more important. And jugs excel at it. Again, by limiting the discussion to PvE you guys miss the bigger picture. And why intercede + 8% self heal, and push is so awesome in PvP.
Levelling with shadow its much better and faster too for example when I did lvl up my shadow I was able to complete every heroic even heroic 4 by myself there is no need to look for group as shadow its superior and every heroic can be solo. After getting to lvl 50 I could very easy solo Heroic in Black Hole in columi gear with companion been in lvl 45 green gear . to do this on my jugger I have full camping gear (fully modified as Bioware armour suck) with my companion in full camping gear booth of us are fully augmented, and I will still find trovix hard work. But on shadow its walk in a park.
Invisibility- its next big advantage helping you to complete or solo staff much faster.
Agreed, PvE leveling and FPs are easier with shadow, thanks largely to cloak and sleep.
Some people say that jugger can take more damage, I do not know about this as I have notice that with correct rotation on shadow I can survive much longer then on my jugger and my jugger have much better gear I thing after I get my shadow same gear as my jugger have, shadow its much better tank.
IMO both tanks are pretty close to each other. Shadow's low armor and DR is offset by self heals.
List why jugger its worst tank in this game could be long but I cannot be ask to writhe more.
I still love and prefer to play with my jugger but I wish jugger tank did have better tanking tools to give you same control on the battlefield as shadow has.
Look, if it means anything... I have all three tank toons leveled to 50. While I have not tanked extensively on the shadow and PT (I mostly pvp dps on those) I've done it. PTs have AoE aggro easy mode, and the best armor and base DR. But they have **** cooldowns.. Shadows have lots of utility, and very good dps. Shroud is very powerful, but only 5 secs. Jugs have the best defensive cooldowns, but suck at dps and aoe aggro.
You might think the other tanks do much better, but the grass is always greener on the other side. Jump into the assassin forums, and you will see how enviable they are of the jugg and PT armor and DR.
Yes, immortal needs to be improved. But neither of the tanks are way better than the other when it comes to PvE. Just choose one that fits your playstyle best IMHO.
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Nice to see a tank video, I play a guardian tank and did not know you can send people over the walls in civil war thanks for giving me a new trick to use.
Yep works on snipers that are in cover on the catwalk in front of the huttball as well. Force push em all the way into the pit LOL!
Video is awesome!
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Very sweet.
I liked especially the huttball charge-intercept (very tricky to pull off reliably), and the epic pushes in civil war mid were ROFL! I've found that if we are lower in elevation to the person being pushed, that person gets thrown FAR OFF and along an upward trajectory. I love to do the same to snipers on the middle catwalk in front of the huttball spawn. Push em off all the way into the pit, always makes me laugh!
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In phase 2, tank on the middle level platform, most of the damage is defensible here. When he hits you about 5-6 times, drop to a lower platform (the one that does NOT have the tentacle). He will spit on you. Now it is time to move to your previous platform immediately. He will start channelling scream, which is when the other tank taunts. After he screams, run to the starting area to get rid of the scream debuff (it doesnt fall off quick like it does in story, you have to put distance between yourself and boss). Rinse and repeat w/ second tank.
Last phase is random aggro, work out taunt order w/ other tank, keeping in mind that someone will have to run to the start to get the scream debuff from previous phase to drop off.
EDIT: Oops sorry just saw you said SM not HM. Well practice the same thing that you would do on HM, then you are ready for HM tanking
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Enhance the capstone talent and second-highest-tier for all tank specs (darkness 31, immortal 31, Shield 31) to give them a 15/30/45% chance to have their defense/shield affect yellow damage only in PvP in tank stance.
e.g. So if my defense chance is 30% against white damage, I can get an almost 15% defense chance against yellow damage.
This would make us last longer against all the yellow damage out there. In return, you can further nerf our damage when in tank stance (although that would make Jugg tanks so friggin hilarious).
Of course, tank+heal would be a tad overpowered, but whatever...
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You sir are the perfect exemple why PvE has trouble getting balanced. All those points are very valid...in a pvp discussions.
This is NOT a PvP discussion.
I lost count of the ammount of PvE **** up done to the classes since launch due to PvP consideration. Mainly, that strategy is a huge threat dump in PvE, so yes the full immortal tree need some loving.
I only agree with you on one point, that immortal needs re-work, which is why I even spec hybrid.
But PvE and jug tanks? Isn't clearing TFB HM comfortably, an indication that jugg tanks are good enough in PvE? I mean that is the highest tier of PvE content available today.
Once again... I agree that immortal needs re-work. I disagree that Jug tanks are not as good as other tanks even in PvE.
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Ok well all of that is true, but the OP was primarly complaining about performance in PVE not PVP, your whole argument is moot.
But i am so tired of people expounding the virtues of the Hybrid in PVE...which there are none anymore because the biggest virtue died when Bioware moved way from a Tank/Off Tank Dynamic, since most if not all fights require 2 Main Tanks, not an Off Tank ( which is a tank by defination that steps in if and when the Main tank dies or tanks adds only), the Hybrid loses all of the utility in PVE. It may be still viable in PVP even with the suggested swap of talents i made, but it would destroy it's viability in PVE which is the goal. Full Immortal is superior in today's PVE Ops, and bioware need to make it clear to all it's customers.
Our guild has cleared 5/5 TFB HM, and my jugg and a sintank tank it. The only problem I have with my hybrid juggie in PvE is the initial aggro, when I start a fight. This is because everyone starts off with 0 on the aggro table, and if I pick up a boss first, then without my taunts the sintank inevitably rips aggro. This is because we both have the same 200% threat from tank stance, but he has way more dps.
It sucks, but I always let him take any boss first, and swap in when appropriate as mechanics demand. Once the swaps and taunt mechanics get going, you won't rip aggro from me. Also generally any fight that has an aggro wipe, you can still maintain threat if you want to blow all taunts (single target, aoe, single target) and then the boss is yours. But I don't like doing that usually....
Now would a pure 31-point immortal be better for PvE with it's high threat abilities (crushing blow, backhand) and it's quicker rage generation? Sure it would! But it would absolutely suck compared to the hybrid in pvp. Let me re-phrase... The pure immortal is slightly better than the hybrid in PvE. The hybrid is vastly better than the 31-immortal in PvP. And given that I do not want to re-spec for pvp (I pve and pvp everyday) I just stick to the pvp build. It is more than enough for pve.
EDIT: BTW forgot to add that in terms of mitigation, the hybrid is better even in PvE. Producing sonic barriers more often, 4% all DR vs 4% I/E and 4% absorb, and unstoppable DR and CC immunity... all these make the hybrid better at mitigating in PvE as well. So in PvE 31-immortal has the edge in threat and rage gen, and hybrid has the edge in mitigation.
Don't misunderstand me. I would LOVE it if they re-designed the immortal tree, which really needs to be looked at. But are jugs inferior today? Not really. And BTW, don't hold your breath on Bioware. Judging from their history, the marauders will get another buff in 1.6, the mercs some meaningless changes, and the operatives nerfed.
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You guys are funny, it is a survival tool. Don't you understand that the marauder, smash juggie, and PT pyro on that sage/sorcs team absolutely needs that bubble stun protection?
Thanks a bunch for finally addressing this tree. 
2.0 is here. Force Shroud STILL bugged.
in Shadow / Assassin
Posted
Several excellent point so far... the accuracy of the grenade being absurdly high, the tech accuracy check, or a new (unlisted) damage type.
I've been kicked in the g0nads by scoundrels while I'm glowing white (which is a simple stun from a playable class), so I'm thinking it is simply a matter of tech accuracy checks as elaborated by eternalnight above.
Would be nice if the devs chimed in w/ the reasoning, and whether this is working as intended.