Payneintherear
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Posts posted by Payneintherear
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^ This.... Even with 21k health... a dual wielder DPS can hit me one time for more than I heal during this... and the whole time I'm burning from dots that are 500-600 per tick as well. Let's get real here people.
The only class getting hit with the nerf bat any time soon is likely going to be Marauder/Sentinel.
Basically just because Sntinels and Marauders are broken, we should ignore everything else that is broken. Gotcha.
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pyrotech damage is def 5/5
our survivability is 1/5 tho.
Simple solution to pyrotechs. Kill them before they kill you. Our only defense is our offense.
Yeah, because your armor and a flat 25% damage reduction obviously suck ***. It's funny how everybody seems to think their class is the squishiest.
Range, a stun, a flat 25% damage reduction and more armor than most dps classes is nowhere close to 1/5. More like 4/5.
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You can only "proove" this point if you run two tests: one with the 31/0/10 spec and one with the x/31/x spec, with everything else being the same.
I absolutely agree with you on this. I honestly didn't want to publish any parses before I had all the gear I consider best for each build (it shouldn't be news to anyone that the different trees benefit differently from stats. Power is huge for Kinetic for instance, since the highest damage contributor has a 100% crit chance, Force Potency is especially good for Telekinetic Throw and you have almost no crit damage multiplier bonus in the tree). It just happened that I saw the infiltration parse from veimi last night and figured I'd test my kinetic spec dps for fun.
Anyway, I'll post more stuff when I am ready.
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Infiltration feels really good when I am outnumbering my opponent. Sadly, that's something everybody should be ashamed to say and admit about their class. If I am outnumbering my opposition, I am going to look good regardless.
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For those of you who didn't want to face reality, here's the very first parse of my 31/0/10 Kinetic Shadow build (since this is the traditional tank build people were requesting). I really can't stress enough how casual this parse was and that it was done without a single piece of PvE gear to boot.
Guess I was right in saying that Kinetic's sustained dps is higher than Infiltration's.
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/o11rsnni/Kineticdps.png
PS.: Just in case anybody was wondering. That's without adrenals or relics.
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I'm just... saying. We're on the bench line. All our specs are replaceable by other classes who can do it better.
That is spot on, unfortunately. It's always been like that in any game I have played. Generalists fill holes and rock PUGs.
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Ranked warzones will have coordinated groups using coordinated burst to get quick kills and gain numbers advantage as well as potentially ninja-ing objectives. A dps shadow can do that unimpeded from stealth and at short term burst levels on par with pretty much anyone. The spots will be there for good players.
This is wishful thinking. As a good player, as soon as a Infiltration Shadow pops out of stealth he eats a taunt, followed by an immediate guard switch to his target (if he is part of an assist train. If he isn't he just dies, before he can harm anybody as soon as he gets knocked down).
The survivability of the Kinetic is what makes the build a much better addition to 99% of the premades you will see in ranked warzones. That's why Marauders and Sentinels are so good (their damage is nice and all, but it's secondary. What makes them the undisputed kings is the fact that they can put on the pressure under pressure and not fold instantly).
It's disturbing how much people think burst classes will rock ranked warzones, yet everybody sees how incredibly awesome Marauders and Sentinels are despite the fact that they are not the #1 burst class.
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Why bring a KC for DPS when you can have a Watchman Sent?
There's no answer that would make any sense to that question. I never said I wanted Kinetic nerfed before other things are nerfed equally or in some cases harder.
The game has its weaknesses balance-wise, there's no denying that. Marauders and Sentinels or Pyrotechs and Vanguards are very much testimony of that.
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I don’t think most people realize how close Kinetic is from being a virtually useless spec.
It's a tank spec that's literally the worst real tank spec. The only reason people play it is because they can get some of the tank perks without having their damage output fall off a cliff. (That and the other specs aren't offering much competition.) If Kinetic's damage gets nerfed significantly, there's no reason to play the spec in either PvP or PvE because both of the other tanks would just dominate it entirely.
At least right now the spec has an upside - even when that upside isn't going to be enough to maintain many spots in serious ranked PvP going forward.
Kinetic's damage without Harnessed Darkness is good enough. My suggested nerf to Harnessed Darkness's damage would not break the build.
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Or better yet, let's compare a harnessed TK throw to master strike sense they both operate similarly.
THAT, my friend, is exactly what you should compare it to and you understand how HD TT is vastly off target. Both these abilities deal about the same damage (feel free to pull some tooltip numbers for these and note down the damage bonus), only that Shadow's TT will also heal at the same time and allow you to be used from 30m range when needed.
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It was really pretty apparent from the start that the KC Shadow was not going to be the top dog due to being a generalist. That said, anybody thinking that there's a better Shadow spec than the one focusing on Kinetic, is severely delusional.
Infiltration has a 2 GCD burst and as much as people might want to believe that burst is king in pvp, it is not (especially not when it's a 2 GCD burst, because the other 2 attacks that you require to crit on to be a threat are a positional that costs entirely too much force and a finisher that only works under 30%).
Balance is a joke all around and nothing more than a sorc with a little additional armor and lower range. Good at 1 vs. 1 against pretty much any class due to its ability to have a high combat uptime at range, when CCed and when in melee (due to good CC that gives you the upper hand and time to acquire range again).
Now, both dps spec, imo, are absolutely trash, but they *can* work. The issue here is that they require entirely too much support to actually do decently compared to Kinetic, which will perform almost as well in any area, which very little support.
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How is it possible that you guys understand so little about balancing?
Yes, the ability is broken, but not because of its healing, but because of its damage. The healing is perfectly reasonable (as Xin points out, this is our form of mitigation, since we are indeed much squishier than the other two tanks) and the ability would be perfectly fine and balanced if it was used mainly for its healing, but the fact is it isn't, which makes this one of the abilities in game that are not "on target".
Remove the 25% damage increase per stack. If you want to deal damage, use your damage abilities. If you want to heal, the possibility of 30m range, use Telekinetic Throw with HD (I'd prolly add another small change to this and make each stack of HD heal for 4%, so that the ability would scale somewhat and not be completely reliant on stacking 3 stacks to be used as a heal). Kinetic Shadow fixed with one simple change.
That, however, does not mean that I want them to nerf the ability before they nerf the few other abilities that are just as much out of whack. There are abilities like Shadow Strike (just an example), which are even more off target, but in a bad way. No ability should be dealing white damage, cost half your resource pool to use and be a positional. Whoever was looking over the metrics for that ability, was probably not paying much attention that day.
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Guess what I do against a Sentinel? I root them. Then I CC them. And then I save 1 cc and 1 knockback just in case they try a Master Strike. It's called strategy.
No, it's not called strategy. It's called a pointless 1 vs. 1, which is absolutely pointless to bring up as an argument.
You go and use your "strategy" in a group fight, where others will prevent you from moving around freely (let alone the fact that your balance shadow has a root, a knockback and two instant stuns, which is a lot more than most classes have in terms of CC anyway).
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im willing to bet they had equal expertise and more than likely used gore to set up ravage... which allos Ravage to do full complete damage if not stopped. Against a Sorc or Sage its very devistating if they have no one covering their 6.
How is it any more devastating against sorc/sages, if you use gore. I don't get it.
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For the record, lose the PvE gear.
You tell him girl. He better be sporting 1200 expertise if he only wants to take 8k. (Feel free to do the math on that one and you'll see it's correct.)
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Yeah, 'cause PvPers do not ever respec, they don't have to pull mods out, they don't have to buy consumables and materials. It's all free.
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Just curious to know what other people are getting.
Having seen one of the beta guys parsing 1350ish for inf, I was disappointed with my first parse last night. I only managed 1060dps :S
I was purely self buffed (+stim), ran the parse for quite some time as I was trying to measure sustained DPS.
Hopefully this link to AskMrRobot works: link to parse
Haven't got the best of gear, basically running unaltered rakata/columi gear but still, 300dps short of the beta bloke seems quite a lot to overcome! Will continue my testing as always striving to improve, but curious to see other's parses!
As I tried to point out in that thread, the Infiltration parse was a) shorter than all others, b) a very lucky one, if you looked at the crits. I'd parse and post results myself, but I am not happy with the current gear setup, as I am not completely decked out in PvE gear.
It will take another few weeks till I feel comfortable to post results that matter (what good would parses be with 1200+ Expertise).
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Hot tip. Low slash incapacitates through force shroud.
Of course, in unorganized pvp, people usually break it the second you apply it.
Hotter tip: Never pop Force Shroud without deflection in a 1on1. (And with deflection up, Low Slash has a very slim chance of landing on a Darkness Assassin.)
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What some of you are overlooking is that now, since there is very little pressure, it will take way longer for them to finish ranked warzones than if they had delayed the whole patch.
It will be another 3+ months before we see the pre-season, if going from 1.1 to 1.2 is any indication of patch cycles. Nobody (mainly interested in PvP) is going to wait another 3 months for pre-season, so you will have lost all of your PvP playerbase (PvErs will still enjoy warzones, no doubt).
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But, what is massive is the disparity between the Op's gear in the vid and their opponents. Furthermore, how many times did you see the Orbital Strike get interrupted? I counted one time.
You can't call for nerfs of a class when a decent player takes advantage of poorly geared saps.
The first fight was against the highest valor rank on server, the 2v1 was vs poor opponents (in case you didn't notice). The majority of 50's who PvP on my server are in full champ/BM gear - it's quite rare to find undergeared players, but quite common to find players who don't understand min/maxing mods.They are mostly wearing the same gear as the Operative, if not better.
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The vid was never intended for '****imsoleet' gameplay, but more to show some fun footage of how a hybrid operative plays... I probably would've keybinded a few more things before recording, and excluded clips where I let my teammates die, if that was the case.
The clips I had of 1v1's against fully min/maxed chars looked rather bland to me, and that's not really what the game is about.
I am curious at this point. Are the shadows in your video the best on the server?
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You've never pvped before have you? Killing someone is more valuable than tickling them for three minutes- and with the intense time restraints in VS and Alderaan due to respawn times- burst damage is artificially far more important in this game than it has ever been in any other in pvp.
They've essentially made a game that must rely on burst damage- which means that classes without burst are more useless than they should be. It also means that healing makes more of a difference short term than it should.
The word "burst" is used so loosely anymore, that people think it means anything more than it is. Take an Infiltration Shadow and a Balance Shadow The Infiltration Shadow has burst, while the Balance Shadow has more sustained damage. Do you know which one of these two is easier to neutralize in competitive play? (not that either are a good choice, but they make a prime example for my argument).
Any class in this game is capable of putting out respectable damage. You do not need a class that will drop 12-15k damage in 3 GCDs to kill somebody, because the non-burst classes will still deal 10k in these 3 GCDs and at the same time they will deal more damage between bursts, keeping the pressure high, be less squishy, thus having higher combat-uptime etc.
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Looks like I am getting outnumbered here and the "majority" values burst damage over everything else.
Now you know why the majority of players isn't succesful or competitive in any game.
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Please roll on my server and do Rateds, my guild's healers love easy mode matches where they can almost AFK and pull good numbers, and I want to give them a nice present.
Yes, I am going to roll on your server. No, thanks. It will be enough of a satisfaction for me to watch you fail from a distance, if we shouldn't have the pleasure to meet.
Also, I'd appreciate, if you stopped spamming the thread with useless drivel, if you don't want to respond to my points. The "lol my guild is awesome and we will roxx0r rated, because we burst everything down" theme isn't innovative nor remotely interesting, as it lacks substance at this point.
The future of KC/darkness (PVP)
in Shadow / Assassin
Posted
You have the answer right in front of you. There are a handful of people who refuse to accept the fact that Shadow tanks are only able to create a niche for themselves by being strong enough not to be a priority assist target and dish out enough damage to not be ignored while at the same time being able to support your team as a tank.
So basically, by playing 24/0/17, you are not going to be as self sufficient as 31/0/10, but at the same time, 31/0/10 isn't going to be lasting for a long time against the top dps classes currently in 1.2. anyway. 24/0/17 is a very good spec (actually to be honest I wonder why Xin doesn't play it, because looking at her videos, it's exactly the playstyle I would see the most fitting for her).
24/0/17 is a dynamic build with good damage capabilities, survivability and mobility. If you are focused, you are not going to last as long as a tank, but you aren't going to die as fast as a dps class either (well, we'll just ignore sentinels and marauders here).