Payneintherear
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Posts posted by Payneintherear
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I would like to see a system similar to WAR's system later in the game. After being CC'd you were given complete immunity. The immunity was based on the length of the CC ability used. It was split into two types of immunity, KD/Stun/Mez and Knockbacks. Knockbacks gave a static 20sec immunity while the others you were granted immunity for 10x (I think) the duration of the CC. What this meant is for MEZ's that are LONG but broken on damage, if it was broken after 1sec you still had the full immunity. This means players become more selective with their CC and don't just spam it constantly on every target.
WAR's system is pretty good indeed, the numbers however were:
- 3s immunity after knockback/root
- duration x10 immunity in seconds for every knockdown/stun
- duration x 3 immunity in seconds for every mezz
I think that simply copying WAR's system would make SWTOR pvp 10 times better already.
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And protects against other things too.
The one good thing about the shield is that it protects you against ignorance. People ave not believed me in the past, so I told them to roll the class and see for themselves.
Sure enough they have been much more educated since they acquired "the bubble of doom" and have yet to whine about it being too good...in fact, they think the internal CD is too long.
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Okay, ffs how was this not been brought up... SORCS DON'T HAVE A MEANS OF PROVIDING PROTECTION! Their shield counts as healing, even if it is cast on others. I've never seen such a collection of a**hats spewing out "facts." Are sorcs/sages too good? Maybe. Are they too good because they're tanks? Hell no. They are horrible tanks and if focused are dropped extremely fast. Terrible trolls.
Funny how nobody noticed that hes mixing up assassins and sorcs huh?
Best thread ever. Sorcs and Sages have GUARD! Nerf!
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Kiting is not a problem for any class in this game. It's obvious. So instead of throwing "L2P" around to look like a smart***, try to get my point.
A melee class does not outdmg a sorc. Melee just have more burst dmg overal. The problem is, it is very easy for sorc/sages to do dmg to you when you are not on them because they are ranged. Add that their dmg also slows you, and also they have all the cc in the world if things get sour and don't forget that they can heal themselves too.
All I'm saying is this is too much advantage for a ranged class. Ranged should be at disadvantage in melee range. A great example is gunslingers/snipers. They are far more easier targets in melee range then sorcs. (Also their dmg is more tankable for tanks but thats a different issue)
I'm a shadow kinetic tank, I can 1v1 any class and walk away victorious if I play good so don't give me L2P crap. The problem is wz are not 1v1 places and when half of the enemy team is sorc/sorcs (believe me, it's very common) the problems start.
Rarely have I seen a post where every single phrase is written with so much conviction, yet it's absolutely wrong.
Any melee class outdamages a sorc, be it burst or over time. The only reason the ignorance about this fact hasn't ended yet, is because most of you guys rely on others to feed you information (or write a parser for you).
Without a combat log, people seem to rely on WZ numbers for total damage, when in fact those are absolutely meaningless. Do you want to know why Sorc/Sage can pull such big total damage figures? (Now read this carefully and believe)
1. Sorcs have up to 2 AoE damage skills that deal way more damage than any of their single target abilities. One is a GTAoE and the other a 3 second TAoE. This means that whenever they dps a single player, they will, procs allowing, use their 3s TAoE right after their GTAoE, as that's the maximum burst they can achieve with 2 GCDs
These two abilities are not even close to what other classes deal with their single target abilities, but they often will hit bystanders, even when not intended, whichpads their numbers
2. They are RDPS. What does that mean? It's obvious. They have a much higher combat uptime than MDPS, because of their range, but the damage they do is much lower. While Sorc/Sage might deal 50k damage per minute any MDPS will deal twice that, but instead of constantly dealing mediocre damage, they only deal damage for half that time, thus being more deadly but having lower total damage figures.
If you set up a Sorc/Sage vs. a MDPS class in a PvE setting against a mob with a million HPs, the sorc would require twice the time to kill it.
3. Due to their damage being so low and with negligeable spike potential, it's much easier to heal through, thus allowing for much longer, drawn out fights. If you want to kill somebody with 20k HPs, by the time you have killed the guy with a couple heals, they will have received another 20k in healing for a total of 40k HPs. A melee, however will kill the guy in half the time, allowing for only 5k extra healing, so that he gets the kill after only dishing out 25k damage
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Would love to discuss it, but for one you are being very vague and secondly, when you happen to be less vague, you are completely misinformed on the abilities and what they do...
How can there be a basis for discussion?
Project snares? Ummm...alright, but see it does not. I am assuming you mean Telekinetic Throw since you used FL there?
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Nerf ok BUT
in PvP
How about we'd allow those classes to restealth during combat? Make it a 5 second cast ability (need to stand still). So if nobody is close enough to attack you within the next 5 seconds, you can stealth again. That'd be consistent. -
i don't have much of a problem with that move being a sage so i can cleanse it off myself..
Good luck cleansing, it's a waste of GCDs, since you have a CD on it and he doesn't. I have been there.
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I suppose if you guys wish, you can disagree with me. I'm going to keep dominating Voidstar and Huttball with this skill though. If the community wishes not see how OP the skill truly is, I'll just continue on being OP with it. Perhaps I'll fraps a few matches, bundle them up in a vid, and see how many times I can utilize this strategy in one day to win Voidstar. I dunno what else it would take to prove to y'all.
I would like to add that while you have been pointing out where this skill shines the most (preventing people from capping objectives or even moving to one), there are classes that rely heavily on keeping attackers away from them (and which while doing so can neither heal nor dps for relevant figures) and that you essentially nullify this mostly due to that spammable AE slow.
You can keep a Sorc/Sage locked down for as long as it takes a dps to notice how helpless that poor guy is (essentially taking him out of the game for whatever amount of time) and put him out of his misery. I am talking out of experience, I have had this happen to me and I have cursed at how futile kiting is in this game, even when you absolutely outplay your opponent's movement by a long shot.
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Wish more people were like this guy, who is calling for a nerf on his own class. I applaud you, sir.
To be honest, I can't wrap my head around people arguing that this is fine. It's absolutely ridiculous and broken.
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Exactly, it is useless....tuning the opener is alright but a stun which is as long as a GCD is strange.
Another idiocy claim. What does the GCD have to do with anything?
1.5s means that you get at least another attack off after the opener. In fact it's going to be 2 more due to the messed up animation.
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I may be talking a load of trash but would like others thoughts on it, im currently playing a jugg and a smuggler, jugg being heavy armor scoundral beign medium.
I really do not see any difference in their armor mit values.
The smuggler is no more weaker than the jugg and this shouldnt be. the jugg wears heavy to compensate for what he's missing in other areas , i am intending to roll a light armor wearer, perhaps a sage tonight and im only hoping they die easier than the jugg because from what ive seen in warzones they do not.
thoughts pls
You can't go by gut feeling on this, sa you always play against different classes, players and in different circumstances. Simply "feeling" as if they both died equally fast is not worth much.
If we had a combat log, you'd see the difference clearly. For now the easiest way to test stuff like that is to start a duel with a friend and have him cast a kinetic/energy ability on your jugg and on your scoundrel. Look at the NON-CRIT (this is important, as it may keep varying crit modifiers out of the equation) and compare them for both.
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Sorc/Sage and their bubbles. Bubbles are pains in the asses no matter the class. Some benifit greatly from the use of them and deservingly so. Sometimes however when you have bubbles that make you pretty immune to damage while being able to faceheel on someone to full health without them every stopping the dps is a little much sometimes.
See this is the one thing that drives me mad every single time. It's like this bubble had some kind of obscure hidden power that nobody can explain, when in reality it's nothing else than a 3k heal every 20 seconds.
How can that person be anymore "immune" to damage than another light armor wearing class that gets a heal every 20 seconds? There are times when you can't dps 3k in the span of 20 seconds? I have never seen that happen, but you should ask yourself whether it only looked like it was the bubble or if there was something else happening (like cross healing, guard, taunt CCed dps etc.)
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This is PvP for a Scoundrel:
Stealth
Sneak
Flechette Round
Power relic
Get behind noob
Shoot First
Sucker Punch (Sucker Punch Sucker Punch until procs run out)
Flechette Round (alternatively Vital Shot and skip Back Blast)
Back Blast
Tendon Blast
Blaster Whip/Sucker Punch until dead
Angle away from fighting and hope combat status drops to re-Stealth; failing that:
Dodge
Disappearing Act
rinse and repeat
It's a pretty brutal rotation compared "lol 1 2 3 lol 1 2 3"
But then Rogue-alikes have always taken more player skill and thus returned more player kills.
Oh my, now that's rocket science right there. And people make fun of Sorcs, who in order to deal 25-50% of the DPS have to not only use more abilities in the same time frame, but they have to do so while watching positioning (cause you know, they take more damage by anyone than they dish out), but they also have to constantly watch their buff bars in order to take advantage of the right procs.
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Can all the Scoundrels and Operatives please shut the hell up already?
How dense can one be to not understand that they needed to be nerfed (and they are not the only class either, it's just the most critical due to the damage being almost impossible to mitigate it well enough even for heavy armor wearers).
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Argh - this post wasn't specifically about operatives. It was about ALL classes.
If DPS vs DPS meant 10 seconds battles. Is that reasonable?
If DPS vs Tank meant 15 second battles. Is that reasonable?
If DPS vs Healer meant 20 second battles. Is that reasonable?
The glaring point is that Bioware is looking at how much time it takes for a player to kill another player, as a point of balance. Specifically to operatives though, this means that burst is anathema to this model. They want to slow damage down and make fights longer. Expect a lot more nerfs to come.
What kind of logic is that...
Burst doesn't mean one or two shot. It means doing a very impactful amount of damage in very short time. And if that's 50% of your HPs in 5 seconds, that's a lot, considering other classes are assisting you with their lower burst damage as well.
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you are so WRONG, it is NOT the hardest hitting ability, TRY a *********** jugg / guardian who does a 8.5k AOE sweep every 12 sec. go **** yourself if you think scoundrel was OP
ontop of the fact we need stealth to open, otherwise ask anyone we suck 1v1 with out the opener
So basically the Operative/Scoundrel wasn't overpowered, because there's that other class in SWTOR that's not doing intended burst damage either.
How about you compare your "max" damage ability with that of a Sorcerer?
The simple fact is that there are abilities that deal entirely too much damage. This is problematic, because the damage varies based on the target's mitigation and mitigation levels are vastly different (light armor - heavy armor = huge difference).
Then there are those abilities that never need to exceed a certain amount of pre-mitigation numbers, because of abilities that allow that class to ignore most of a target's armor. Those are the biggest offenders and that's what was nerfed first.
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Hey you guys are destroying the game,not me,look at all the imps here rejoicing with their zerg gig lately and their numbers and the sorc/inquis gig and they nerf scoundrels kudos to you kiddys for being so loud you got your wish.
You can always reroll a Sage, since you think they are so awesome.
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NM
10 char
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But what about your dots dmg ? You have more than just your lightning..
I love when people talk about Sage/Sorc DoTs.
The funniest thing about it is, that unless you spec 31 in madness/balance (which means you are giving up dps), you have all of 1 DoT ability and that will tick for 200ish. If you want to use Mind Crush/Crushing Darkess, you will have to stand still for 2 seconds or wait for a proc (on top of that it has a 15s CD)
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I play a sorcerer and only thing we need is neft to our soul barrier or move it heavy into the corruption tree.
fyi if I use a relic and pvp adrenal I can crit for over 4k quite easily.
This person complaining is just plain bad
Makes me wonder what your IQ is to be honest. What kind of skill does it take to press a button?
You guys wear the same gear, yet you claim to hit for 4k+ quite easily, because you are a "good" player? It's obvious that you are fighting underequipped toons, which is why you see those numbers and he doesn't.
Sages/Sorc scale very poorly, because all of their meaninngful damage:
1. Is highly mitigated due it being kinetic/energy
2. Requires you to stand still for several seconds
3. Requires proc luck and thus is absolutely unreliable
4. Relies heavily on Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw spam to get procs, which in itself deals very low damage per second for a skill that requires you to be stationary
5. Lacks damage over time abilities that deal high damage per tick in order to create a burst in combination with direct damage abilities
6. Is tied to semi-long cooldown for the 2 abilities that actually hit for over 1k, so that even if you proc, you can't use them back to back but have to settle for your anytimer
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No matter how much you guys hack and slice it, the sorc/sage class is OP. CC, healing, damage, bubble, sprint, and low CD knock back ALL on the same class. How is that fair? What do Guardians get? Leap and ally leap? Unless you go defense, our only stun is a channel. No other CC to speak of. No healing either.
Let's assume we were to compare these classes. So the Sage/Sorc has all that awesome stuff, while the Guardian only has 2 utility abilities. Do you want to know the difference? Sorc/Sage most of the time can use ONE or NONE of their abilities (as they are so squishy it's not even funny and imo worth looking into, because as power levels rise, these two classes will lose more and more ground, which is why people claimed they were overpowered in the beginning stages, when people had no levels and/or gear yet), while the Guardian can always use theirs.
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What did you expect from the creators of Warhammer's PvP?
Idiot. We'd expect a perfectly sensible immunity timer like WAR does in fact have.
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It's not the [fill in whatever] that's the problem, it's consumables.
This may very well be the next big i-net phrase after skyrim's "arrow to the knee".
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You have the same chance of having no BH as they have of having no Agent. This is not a good argument against it at all, classes should be present to counter other classes.
Yes, the chances for having x class are the same, except that me having a BH when the other side doesn't have an Agent gives both teams equal opportunity, while the side that has an Agent when the opposing team doesn't have a BH clearly has the advantage.
So much for equal chances.
As a warhammer veteran, this brings back horrific memories...
in PvP
Posted
See, when will people learn that math is not an opinion?
The difference between light and heavy is taking 60% more damage against 80-90% of attacks. Add the lower HP pool that is barely balanced by a bubble and you have two classes with the same HP pool (only if the bubble is up pre-fight) and one taking 60% more damage than the other.
When one class takes 60% more damage, TTK is much lower, as it drops dangerously close to CC duration and allows for very little healing to be pumped into the target from 100 to 0.