I just put my bm glove/boot mods into my extra pve gloves/boots to keep the 2 piece set bonus without giving up the expertise.

Not happy with conceal pve dps at all now that I can parse it. Note that I am not biochem so mileage may vary. My gear isn't top end by any means but it's full columi with lvl 56 power mods and power/surge enhancements, with stim and sorc/agent buff my stats are: Cunning: 1731 Tech bonus: 746.5 Crit chance: 32.98% Crit multiplier: 77.74% My dps on operations target dummy over 3 - 3 min tests ranges from 1080 - 1170dps. 33% of my damage was dot damage The only thing I have to compare it to is my baby madness sorc, might not be the best pve dps spec I just threw one together to test. She's lvl 50 with all lvl 49 crafted purples still geared from the pre surge nerf, no stim and sorc/agent buff: Willpower: 1291 Force bonus: 545.3 Crit Chance: 40.15 Crit Multiplier: 78.72 Activation speed: 5.43% (no real way to avoid some alacrity) Her dps on the operations dummy over 3 - 3 min tests ranges from 1020 - 1080. It's a small sample size but it's all I can offer you at the moment. The pertinence is that the char that I made just so I could have an artificer and leveled to 50 to make twilek alts is pretty darn close to my main in dps. She has 4 days played, I haven't finished chapter 3 or even enetered a HM with her. Also given that these tests were with 100% uptime I am pretty certain that on any movement fights I would have less damage than her with range and positioning restrictions. PvP is along the same lines so far, I haven't played enough to get a real feel for how big the impact is there. I never used vanish as a dps increase so the hs cd doesn't matter but with the added cd on backstab it's never up at the end of my rotation/priority use, I find myself needing to grenade as a filler or use my free shots. Energy starvation is more of an issue now, likely due to the grenades trying to keep pressure up but I haven't had a chance to really tweak things. Anyway, hope this helps with what to expect and good luck.

Lol really? We're supposed to still have some kind of confidence in your ability to release a finished product/patch without testing it on live and responding from there? My only response to that bolded part of your statement is: Why stop now? Seriously, most hilarious statement I've heard from this dev team since "teams of operatives". I understand what's going on, you guys have one of the biggest villains in gaming(EA) standing behind you saying release what you have. But big picture is you've pretty much reverted the best things in the patch as far as pvp goes; no set bonuses from old armor mods if you want to get into orange gear early, re-instituted the accuracy/alacrity overload on gear for most classes, and now ranked warzones are mia. Let me guess, after the servers go live tomorrow there will be a post explaining why combat logs weren't implemented.

So which pieces were changed? Where are the stats? I assume these changes were on test for a couple of weeks and you wouldn't dream of testing them on live instead of the test server. More proof of paid beta incoming, thanks for sucking.

I know right? I can't believe bioware didn't put cooldowns on their melee skills or give them some kind of resource to manage. BW could have at least not made them immune to the global cool down. They can just pop out of stealth and BAM! 12 knife attacks land in that first 1.5 second knockdown. Then if you're still alive they stun you for 4 more seconds, unload twice as much damage and then they can vanish and start all over again. And to top it off they're laughing the whole time. Operatives are ruining the game and teams of them are one of the top reasons for population decline in the game. Noone would blame you if you quit too.

The main reason I would like a range increase on sever is that many times if I'm gcd locked a target with force speed is beyond the 10m range by the time I can use it. Especially if it's a sorc with the knockback root. Also mercs with the increased knockback range and built in snare. Asking for a range increase seems like it would be more reasonable than asking for it to be off the gcd. Also, a gap closer would at least make our target dummy damage closer to actual pve fight situations. Our uptime on some fights is pretty dismal if there are multiple targets or run away mechanics which seems to be most of them. My pve time is pretty limited lately but I'm pretty sure the final stage of Soa in EV gave me cancer.

I agree with you about the tunnel vision but I also see the other side. So many people, myself included think mainly in terms of huttball and envy charges, pulls or being able to bypass hazards with defensive cooldowns. That and the sheer number of roots and snares, many of which are just blended in with other abilities, an immediate closer would be nice while damage fixes would be awesome. Even a longer range on our snare would be a decent step in the right direction. It's all just dreaming anyway, it's pretty much denial if we think BW wants any kind of viability for the class at the moment. They obviously intend for it to fade away until canceled subs stop putting operatives as their main reason for quitting. Heck, people just need to complete chapter 2 and our buff isn't even needed anymore. We're not going to have much of a place in the game as far as I can tell. I intend to tough it out until I find I'm a liability in pve/pvp, then reroll until a better game comes along. The mind tricks seem to be meant for everyone but us. We're within 5% of a marauder's dps as long as we use biochem consumables and the marauder doesn't =) Teams of operatives stunlocking... The other 90-95% whatever the other classes make up of the game just drink the kool aid, smile and bask in Georg parroting their interpretation of how the class works back at them.

I always thought Acid Blade should be passive like mercs' gas cylinders. Being able to drop a heal at the right time has won matches for me though mostly huttball and really that utility is about the only reason I've stuck out the past nerfs. Try to plan your vanishes enough in advance to drop a dispell first. I would say doing that has doubled my chances of escaping.

A gap closer would be great but it's not our only issue. As it stands a decently geared/skilled player can usually stand and turret, they don't need to kite. And we need more than a gap closer to fix pve discrepancies. * Edit Traug beat me to it.

IMHO for conceal: Gap Closer or increased survivability (some oh crap buttons to hit while we're rooted/knocked back that are actually worthwhile, the increased survivability option might make op healers overpowered though if not talented abilities) Revert Acid blade to 50% armor pen (the reports of our dps from test, surge nerf, 50's only wz's and no more buff stacking make this feasible) Keep Backstab at 9sec or increase acid blade dot damage by 33% and the buff duration by 33% (Most of our other filler abilities are huge energy sinks and the loss to acid blade applications compounds the cd nerf) Keep the 7.5 second cd on Hidden Strike, vanishing to double tap was a crutch and personally I only ever used it on people that needed to die asap to turn the tide in a game or people I disliked. (Now that it can't be used twice in rapid succession, maybe put back some of the 20% damage that was taken away since most of that crying was pre-surge nerf.) If the corrosive dart animation lag isn't fixed on test, fix it. It's an instant cast with a ~1.5 second cast time as it is.

Since the real testing doesn't happen until they patch live I'm sticking with it until I'm sure that I'm a liability in pve and pvp. I've been leveling toons for crew skills anyway in my free time so I have a 50 sorc and upcoming sin, merc and marauder if I absolutely have to switch. The limited group utility of operative is still hard to pass up for pvp, I've won matches with my stealth and being able to spot heal. Whether it makes up for the matches that have been lost because I have no mobility/survivability I'm not sure. So going marauder is one of the toughest choices going sin/sorc would be one of the easiest.

It's nothing new but the reason I'm not playing wow is the whole cyclical nerfing practice and dumbing down of the game in general. Blizz seems to feel that each class should spend a little time at the top and at the bottom instead of shooting for balance they seem to flourish on rerolls and time wasted on needing to regear to change specs. Unless of course you're a frost mage in the last expansion anyway. I would say bioware is on the same track if georg had shown any knowledge of the game. Teams of operatives lol. The only bright side of that statement was that at least they admitted the were giving in to whining.

The best you're going to get is a Mr. Troeller post that mirrors the same ignorance the majority of the community has shown. He's so desperate to succeed and the vast majority of players have been saying that operatives/scoundrels are op. What's the best thing he can do for subs? He can say you're right and I have numbers to prove it. The guy can't possibly believe all the pandering he's been doing to the majority, but he also has no issue making bold false statements. There was obviously a decision to comprise the game of the 3 main classes until the subscriptions level out then go back and work on agents if they can stop the game from bleeding subs. You can't possibly think that Georg is going to backtrack now that he's so committed to his lies? You can bet once he starts getting pounded with combat parses that show we're 20% behind other classes he'll still deny anything is wrong and we need to l2p.

Pretty sure if Bioware had it to do over again they wouldn't have included operative in the live release so however true this post is I can't see them actually making a positive change to the class. Best you can hope for is Georg Troeller to stop by to show his ignorance regarding the class and twist the knife a little.

Rumor has it that as an operative I stun lock people until they cancel their subscription. Seems like one of the nicest things anyone could possibly do.

Lol yet another "we value your opinion" email today. It's funny how far out of touch the PR dept is from the actual dev team.

I use the power relic since our crit is so high and the surge from relic only gives about 2.3% more crit damage if you're already at 75%. As for stacking with the power adrenal I'm not biochem so have no idea. Good luck.

You've pretty much guessed it. I ran into another conceal op last night for the first time in about 2 weeks.

I'm not finished swapping everything to power yet and not quite as well geared as most but I haven't seen a 5k medal since nerf either. I'm in full champ with 2 piece columi bonus and I always run the blue skill stim since I'm not biochem. 4.7k is the best I've seen on a fresh 50 sorc with the champ power relic up but I didn't have the red buff or adrenal. The only reason I know it was a fresh 50 is because I was fighting the same person the day before in the 1-49 bracket on my new merc. 3.2 - 3.6k is pretty much the norm for crits on hidden strike for me on equally geared players, not much better than backstab anymore in most cases. Off topic but does anyone else find it hilarious when you open on a sorc/sage, you knock them down for 1.5 sec but if you break their shield you end up ccing yourself for 2-3 sec?

Don't let it die. Back to the top.

Soft cap is 75% surge. After that you get a little over 1% crit dmg per 100 surge. There are threads with more specific numbers around but that's the gist of it.

Lol flies buzzing around a steaming pile of Bioware. Working as intended.

They have essentially shown that the problem with op/sm wasn't armor pen and the opener, it was surge scaling too well and buff stacking. With such high crit rates op/sm benefited from it the most. Have they undone their knee jerk reaction to the whining? Nope. Just another day in another piece of EA vaporware.

You go to work, you put in 40 hours a week for 3 weeks, your boss flips a coin each day to determine whether or not you get paid but you only get paid for 2 days. You're happy with this and just accept that you didn't beat the odds? Pro tip for game devs, humans like progression. All BM bags should give progress towards BM gear and if they insist on including RNG have a 25% chance for more progress. A lottery system for pvp gear is just going to leave you with extremes at both ends and cause you more grief about pvp balance.

Even cooler, let someone else eat your loss because you need to be carried.