Yes it's true some class/specs are lacking in viability in arenas, but at second glance ( played close to 100 ranked arena games on PTS and now live), it seems that there are more viable class compositions to your standard op double Mara jug tank. Sure op healers are not going anywhere and are far superior to the other healers but we r seeing some very creative comps from some of the best ranked guilds. MVP tonight were running 2 teams. One was a pretty cheesy double PT Mara team but the other was running a deception sin and sorc. I have seen DPS mandos and snipers also perform very well. The real issue is that most of these classes/specs have a higher skill cap. That is great players will get the full potential out of them while others will struggle. Where as smash spec yes is strong it also has a lower skill cap to play so average to decent players shine and are more prevalent in PvP.

Shouldn't you be busy looking for a new game?

Just hurry up and unsub so we don't have to read your whiney posts.

R we playing the same class??? Battle readiness already is a 25% DMg reduction ability This is what's wrong with a lot of posters they give us the buffs we have been asking for and ppl are still not happy. I think some ppl just like to complain for the sake of complaining

We had a blast tonight We had an 8 man rotating subbing roster of elite and core. Highlight had to be getting dongcleaved by one of the MVP teams . Was awesome fun. Sadly we did not go 52-1. Sorry elite duelist we tried but these mofos are too stronk. Also is everyone getting 12 points for every win and losing 13 points for losses?

Amazing news for Tank Shadows. I am very happy

Like topic says. No matter your rating you win 12 points for a win and loss 13 for a loss.

Like topic says. No matter your rating you win 12 points for a win and loss 13 for a loss.

Fly by Space ship flying by and dropping bombs...../thread

The other day i tried to interrupt a scoundrel Kolto cloud and failed. I then tried to interrupt his slow release medpack and failed again. Then i thought surely I will interrupt his emergency medpack. I unsubbed b/c i am a bad that can't interrupt healers. Maybe gaming is not for me.

True. But the tanks that do real dmg are the ones that run dps gear and dps specs. For instance Vanguards in tactics tree with DPS gear and ion cell is a joke. The dmg in the tree is not linked to the cell/stance like other dps specs so they hit like trucks but still have 50% dmg mitigation...its ridiculous. That needs to change especialy in 2.4 where tactics is getting buffed.

I hear you about the Guardian but they are 2 tiers above the other tanks in my scale. I just feel they are not so much op as the other tanks are Under powered which makes the difference between tanks big.

hehe pretty accurate actually IMO i have it like this Completely OP Scoundrel Healer Focus Sent Stronger then Normal Gunslinger all specs Vanguard tactics (2.4) Guardian tanks Sent other specs Good balance Commando gunnery Sage TK/Balance/seer (all specs) Guardian focus (yes they lack the DCD of Sents so they are balanced imo) Assault vang (2.4) Need small amount of love Infiltration Shadow Vigilance Guardian Tank Shadow Tank Vangaurd Dirty fighting scoundrel Need Buffs badly Medic Commando Scrapper Scoundrel Balance Shadow

I always liked <Sharks with frikin laser beams> <Hey we ain't that bad> <Hey hey its Saturday> (Aussies will get this one) <Hey what happen to MVP>

When considering what is OP and what is not OP you have make sure you observing performance of classes in a high competitive environment. I can guard a mando healer and have him face tank 4 bad dps players in a reg wz and troll the team or i can get smashed by 2 high level DPS in a competitive ranked. The truth is in a competitive environment tanks are not the issue. The bottom line is if you watch and/or play ranked at High level where games are competitive you will see class balance. The biggest issue with ranked is the stacking of OP/scoundrel healers to stale mate games not the stacking of tanks. Hypergates that end after 30min with no pylon cap and endless 0-0 voidstars with almost no kills b/c teams run 3 healers. That's b/c there are a lot of bad tanks out there that throw gaurd on a healer then proceed to tank from an other node and don't guard switch at all. It ha nothing to do with you rolling way or losing enemy players. It has everything to do with some tanks need to L2P. Again you need to observe how classes perform in a competitive environment in order to really assess how strong they are. There is a reason that ranked teams rely heavily on OP/Scoundrel healers, Smash/sweep classes and Sniper/gunslingers. As it stands guard in its current form is not the problem. The reason why tanks perform stronger with Op/scoundrel healers then the other 2 healers in PVP is simply b/c of the the way they deliver there heals vs the other 2 healing classes. OP/scoundrel healers have many insta casts that are delivered while being mobile. They don't have to stand still to cast as many heals running the risk of interrupts and losing GCD's due to healers not being cast. Also being mobile decreases over all dmg as opposed to being stationary which the other 2 healers have to do to be more effective. So the more dmg you take the pressure is on the tank to receive more healing b/c it starts taking more guard dmg. The more heals the tank needs the less the rest of the team gets and the pressure builds up and the team simply folds. A classic example of delivery of heal is salvation vs Kolto cloud. Due to the fluid dynamic of PvP a sage placing a salvation at his feet to help heal himself and his tank is wasted many times. Due to the mobile nature of combat and having to constantly stay on the move when taking dmg the tank and healer do not get the full benefit of the salvation. On the other hand Kolto cloud is placed on all targets in a specific area and then stays on the target as a buff. Even if you were to move 30m away from the original area it was cast b/c its a buff the heal moves with you. Its a similar issue with Kolto bomb although most of Kolto bombs healing is up front, but the full potential of the hot effect in many pvp encounters is lost..

I agree in principal with what u say. Some classes just stack better and 1+1 =3 as u say. In regards to your graph I would slightly disagree with some of your assessments. I would say guardian tanks are a 5.5 while shadows are a 4.5 . Also I think sage healers are perfectly balanced. Its saw bones scoundrels that are just too good to pass up on that sees sages excluded from ranked environments. Gaurd is only a problem in an environment of strong OP/scoundrel healers. Tone down their healing output and/or the way they deliver those heals and you will see more kills happen. There is no prob with tanks.

I have noticed but I think it's a couple of factors. I did a search during apac prime time of tython and there were 77 lowbies. When Apac servers were dead so we're lowbie zones. Looks like many ppl are re rolling as they are prob geared on there mains and no point in grinding gear when a new tier is coming out. I know lots of ppl are playing other games waiting for 2.4 like ff14. And yea there are afew ppl just pissed with BWs lack of balance changes and general incompetence when it comes to pvp that have left the game.

I think most dedicated PvPers like both arenas and warzones..i know i do. So while the removal of 8v8 ranked is stupid and has angered many i think a lot of those ppl are looking forward to arenas but just wish that 8v8 was still an option to get bigger numbers of guildies involved and to keep it fresh.

This Its the perfect system and ironically exacly what the pugs are asking for as well. They want a proper match making system and the only way it can happen is if every WZ was rated. No regs.

And then there are special players like zirx/dumpz that are better on their heal merc then a lot are on there OPs. Also beast as DPS. But i think if you put him on an OP healer he would be close to unstoppable.

so what is the exact name of this track?

great track and nice vid...you must admit some of those clips were of owning nubs but still some nice stuff

Quick suggestion How would ppl feel that if they changed Kinetic ward to: Erects a Kinitic ward with 15 charges that increases you armour by 1% per charge. Every time you are hit you lose 1 charge. Then for Kinetic Bulwark in the Kinetic Combat tree: Every time 1 charge of kinetic ward is consumed Kinetic ward increase armour rating by .5%. Stacks up to 8 times. So basically at full charge a shadows armour will increase to 49% (similar to guardian) and will drop down to 38% at 1 charge while kinetic ward is active. Do you think this would help? I know the Devs said they wanted the shadow to be a skill tank it seems to me that using Kinetic ward to pump up our Armour is the way to go in anticipation for dmg.

Quick suggestion How would ppl feel that if they changed Kinetic ward to: Erects a Kinitic ward with 15 charges that increases you armour by 1% per charge. Every time you are hit you lose 1 charge. Then for Kinetic Bulwark in the Kinetic Combat tree: Every time 1 charge of kinetic ward is consumed Kinetic ward increase armour rating by .5%. Stacks up to 8 times. So basically at full charge a shadows armour in PvP will increase to 49% (similar to guardian) and will drop down to 38% at 1 charge while kinetic ward is active.

Hey Keyboard my concerns are regarding PvP tanking. I know some concerns are brought up in question one but that is in regards to PvE. In PvP my concerns are the following. Currently the best spec to "tank" in PvP and arenas is 23/21/2. Basically you need to spend 21 points in the infiltration tree to get better survival tool then the tank tree. Anything after kinetic Bulwark and force pull is simply useless or negligible in the tank tree, and you can simply replace the Spin kick out of stealth with Low slash in the infiltration tree. Even so the key problem from what I see is the following. First and foremost is our low base armor. 34.5% mitigation with full Conq. We take to much dmg through guard compared to vanguards and Guardians who have approx 50% armor mitigation. These leads to us popping more of of defenive cooldowns in order to mitigate damage and we put more pressure on healers to receive healing in combat over the other 2 tanks which makes us a liability. It is true that as a consular we get more base defense 10% instead of 5% as well as with kinetic ward we get better shield chance. These all looks great on paper but while you mentioned in your question 1 its too RNG but in pvp there is an even bigger issue. Due to the nature of the way Damage is delivered in PvP the majority of strong attacks come in a format that ignore shield and defense stats either b/c they are AE dmg or Internal/Elemental or Force/tech powers that Crit. The strongest clases for pvp rely on these attacks for the bulk of their dmg. Rage Mara and Jugs, AP Powertechs and Leathality Snipers. I do agree we perform stronger against DPS classes that deliver there dmg via weapon abilaties ei White dmg like Carnage Mara's, Deception Assasins and Marksman Snipers but seeing as some of these specs don't see the light of day in competitive PvP it is a moot point. To further add insult to injury even when under defensive cooldowns like Battle readiness or black out if you use the infiltration tree the +25% dmg reduction gives us a only 59% dmg reduction We have to use a defensive cooldown to get 7% more mitigation then a vangaurd and 9% more then a Gaurdian. WOW Then we have my biggest pet peeve. Tools to keep our team alive. Our peeling tools are simply inferior to that of a guardian and our taunts are not as good as the other 2 tanks. Everyone single target taunt is the same but its our AE taunt that really lacks when stacked up againt the other tanks. Vangaurds can taunt a group of individuals from range (30 m) making it more versatile and the guardians get to place a dmg reduction bubble on all friendlies within the sphere of influence. While many might argue that the bubble is not all that strong ppl need to factor in that all dmg incoming is also decreased by 30% for the duration of the taunt giving that moderate bubble even greater strength. I guess my real concern in a nutshell is what is BW planning on doing to help shadows tank more efficiently then the other two tanks. We lack mitigation as well as Utility via peels and other abilaties like the ae bubble that guardians get as well as guardian leap.