Nope It's strong and one of the viable specs for arenas but competitive top arena games have already shown that other dps classes are just as strong in many combinations. Vanguards both dps specs, gunnery mandos, gunslingers and even sage dps have all been used effectively by the top teams like MVP, don't panic and a couple other teams. Afew nights back the ex breakfast team was running double pyro vanguards and was wrecking most teams judging from their stream.

Hang in there man. What is happening to you guys is what happen to us in 8v8 ranked. We got our asses handed to us more often then not. My rating got as low as 960 to give you an example of how much we were losing. Looking back now i am so glad we stuck it out b/c it only made us better and now we have an arena team that can challenge the the top teams b/c of all the ranked experience and improvements we have made from 8v8. That's what a lot of ppl don't realize. To improve you need to play against better players. Rolling scubs in regular warzones does not get you better. So a lot of these teams that que once or twice lose then go back to regs to "farm gear" (b/c you know that y they are losing in there mind) will simply never get better.

I think i told you in game but its rare to find a good Mando/merc healer. Other mando/mercs need to pay attention. Yea its the weaker of the healers but when played properly it does well. Bobcow is a good Mando healer as well plays the scoundrel for obvious reasons.

Match making is def not working bc there are not enough ppl in the que. The system tries to match make but keeps broadening its search looking for a match and then Eventually just matches who ever is available. On top of that it's not awarding the correct Elo points for win loss like it was in pre 2.4 and 8v8 wz ranked. No matter how high your teams avrg rating is and no matter how low your opponents are u will get 12 points for a win and 13 for a loss. Like General Aldo said. They need to merge the bastion with pot5 and create a half way server I think.

Arenas r fun but like most things BW they are implemented with little thought. No rewards no incentives no encouragement for new pvpers to play in order to create a healthy culture to get enough ppl in the ques to make match making work. BW already has a rep system in place for events and daily areas. It would not be hard to have a Pvp rep that can only be built with group ques arenas. You get x amount of rep for each win and y amount for a loss. At certain threshold of rep newcomer, friend etc u can trade rated coms for cool legacy gear, speeders etc. ENCOURAGE PvP. Give cool rewards for Pvp. Every season can have new gear and item to work towards. It's not hard BW has the tools to make it happen with little effort but I have NFI why they don't.

This If team from Harb and BC are serious about arena pop you need to get to Bastion. Lots of teams quing in US prime time. I wish BW just made a half way server for Bastion and POT5 for arenas/warzones.

I also had to go to the toilet between game 4 and 5 and again at 10 and 11. Made a sandwich at about 15.

No cross server = no large population. No large population = fail match making sytem = low to average teams don't que = no pops.

Aussie prime time got down to about 40-50 on repub fleet pre 2.4. Its now back up to about 70-80. Having said that there are no group arena pops in Aussie prime time. Even though we have a lot of guilds. Facepalm Boss 5percent Elite/core (we really on guild now) Rats of Tobruk Alpha Republic Not ready yet Brazillian force Keyboard warriors (they had 14 online when i checked) plus the general population. Even when the fleet on repub side gets up to 100 ppl and that's not including the Imps there are still no Team pops just solo que and the funny part is you see sometimes 3 guildies in the solo q dodging the group que. We either need corsserver or server merges imo. Merge Pot5 with Bastion and set up a half way server. Only way to keep the longevity of the game at this point imo.

Well we are just that awsome! Besides these days...Ipads at the pool.....too easy. Also the aussie prime time is mostly full of pretend PvP guilds that don't que team ranked (with the exception of a couple). Only time you get decent matches is during US prime time 12pm your time Elite, where at least you get lots of teams quing. But still without crosserver the match maker will not work properly so i predict that in an other week or 2 the team arena scene will be much like 8 man arenas. Sad b/c arenas are fun and its much easier to get 4 players then 8.

I think this is very accurate. Again we played DP and went 1-1 It was Wrucks tanking, Antipode sage DPS, Greenpin gunslinger and Ellah? healing. Yea seem they are experimenting with combos. I think the real reason is they are trying to figure out the best combination to counter your team with the AP PT tank. or it could be simply just general experimentation as its only pre-season. We found that the Tactics VG worked well against the DP team but my shadow was better against the double Pyro team that ex-breakfast were playing (cnt for kids that cant read good). Then again we only played 2 games against DP but 5 against the others. Double Pyro ran through Chief on his VG where they could not touch my shadow largely b/c of resilience. Horses for courses i guess.

What about the shadow tank?? Also Milke on his Op Wrucks on Timemuffin (PT) Taratech and and who is that sniper? is that a real DP team?

Fair enough I acknowledge that DP is a stronger team. I don't think I ever said otherwise. In fact i even said I thought those games would not play out the same way if we did not run that comp. I am not sure if it was you in Bob's stream the other night after we played you guys a couple times where Ogi/Goes complained about your composition and i said that your guys were simply better and it did not really matter that you ran that comp b/c we also got beaten by Purerage's team with Wurdlol, Jaryx and Kand. Although that game was far more competitive with their more "traditional" setup.

I did not forget to mention anything. We did do not choose what our opponent decide to put up as a composition. Also we are debating about class spec/balance and what OP and whats not. So you are saying class balance does matter now? Isn't that my point?? Yes we did mirror the comp. And we won 3 games against DP. And that's my point. DP are are better team and we managed to take 3 games off them in a row mostly b/c of the class comp. You all seem to be getting your knickers in a knot thinking that i am a saying you are only winning b/c of One AP/PT tank. Player skill and team skill/coordination > all i agree 100%. But all things equal and sometimes even when one team is a bit more skilled then the other team the the team composition and class balance will tip the scales. That's all i am saying.

Yea i am not sure if Goes played AP tank. He never has when i have been there. When we played you guys and the other MVP team with Purage,Jaryx,Wudlol and Kand he was in HE cell and i was tanking. Second point: First team was against DP's repub team. It was Tara, Cesc, antipode and Thessia (i think the stream is a little unclear) DP lost 2-1 Second games was same team DP on their Repub toons. DP lost 2-1 again They then played Waka, Gurdarz, Brox(?) and not sure who the healer isi(?) again stream is hard to tell 100% and won 2-0. Then they played DP for the third time on DP's imp toons. It was yea Aurawell? on his 28hp jug like you say, Taratech, Saggin and cant read the healer too good. again DP lost 2-1. All games were super close. Then Today we got raped by DP with Wrucks, Tara, Ant and Mlke but we puged our 2nd DPS (paz on her shadow from Rats of Tubruk) and I tanked we did not play Hybrid tank Vang. The same team you guys played today also. Stream of the first games are here. http://www.twitch.tv/bobcow32/b/466716023 Also i was watched Bodies' stream and Scold's stream earlier today (last night for you) and teams that used to be competitive with you guys pre 2.4 (Especialy the DP's team with Wrucks,Ant,Tara,mlke) and you guys went through them like they were almost PUGS. So basically you guys gained that much personal skill in the space of a 5 hour maintenance between 2.3 and 2.4? If that's true that is some truly epic improvement in team and player skill.

The only thing tied to the cell is energy management and an insta crit HiB/Railshot. All the DPS/surge bonus is not tied to anything as well as the super pulse cannon/flame thrower. They can not build 3 stacks of singularity without Shi cho and they nor can they get the free blade storm after leap which are all key to the spec. Also they can't reduce the active cool down of sweep/smash without schi cho. The basic principles of the lol smash build is tied to the stance. Changing stance DRASTICALLY impacts the damage output of the class in the spec. Learn the class b4 commenting.

U must have me confused. I never played a AP Tank Vanguard. Or are you referring to the "team" not me specifically? When i have played we never ran a tank hybrid ap VG only a DPS Tactics vangaurd with high energy cell (Goes). I know when the team switched to there Imp alts Koozie played an AP Tank PT. That team took Don't Panic out 3 games in a row. Coincidence? I think not. I would like to see that feat repeated with out a Tank hybrid PT. It might not play out the same. So yes it is OP.

The point is to make it worth choosing any one of the 3 tanks. Not 1 tank to the exclusion of all other tanks. Pre 2.4 it was stupid that the Jug was chosen over other tanks and now the Hybrid will be chosen over all other tanks. Same with the healers. Its currently stupid that the OP is chosen over all the other healer. Dps is slightly different atm there are a few viable dps classes. Mara, PT, Snipers, Mercs and even Sorcs are all viable. Some are easier to play then others but all the top teams, MVP, Casual, Don't Panic, Drama have had success with many combinations of these DPS classes. But let me guess you play a Vangaurd/PT?

DOUBLE mara teams are strong not going to lie bu they can be countered.

ehehe well they still run double PT "WARRIOR" OP.

As a spec its is fine. No qq its stong but not OP imo. The problem arises b/c the spec is not linked to the cell. So we have Vang/PTs in middle tree with ion cell on doing about 95% of the dmg output of the dps spec with all the benefits of 50% armour mitigation and gaurd. Its a cheesy and makes other tanks obsolete. Imagine if a Jug could lol smash while in Soresu form. PPl would lose there $hit. But they cant b/c the spec is tied in very closley to the shi cho form. Much like infiltration is tied to shadow technique. This needs to be addressed in 2.5. Imo Havok training talent and the Pulse engine talent need to be tied to the high energy cell. They do that and the problem is solved. No nerf to the dps spec at all but solves the cheesy spec issue.

Sorry but double mara jug op is not the best combo nor is it the only viable combo nor are they the only good classes for arenas. My team plays Shadow tank (yes that's right) Vanguard DPS/Gunslinger (we sub them in and out) Sent DPS Scoundrel Heals i am 24-5 on the Bastion which is largely regarded as the toughest PvP server. We have never lost to a double mara jug op team. The teams we lost to ran....wait for it Assasin dps (MVP team) Merc dps (AGAIN MVP team) Power techs Class balance is not perfect but the bad's in this game over exaggerate to cover for there own incompetence. In fact bad's make up all typed of excuses to justify why they lose. The truth is the better team wins and class balance while being a factor is trumped by better coordinated teams. don't believe me? here are the streams http://www.twitch.tv/bobcow32/b/466558129 http://www.twitch.tv/bobcow32/b/466794683 TL:DR L2P Double mara jug tank op healer is not the only viable set up.

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I am greek You will love me more then scold

In the tank tree impact control additionally gives Battle readiness a 25%dmg reduction.