A lot of dumbies dont see stuff like thermal detonator coming which is a delayed burst and can line up perfectly with railshot. Most swtor pvpers are rather simple minded, and easily tunnel visioned and only see the obvious things.. e.g they see some PT pop them for 5k rail shot but they dont see when the rail shot hits, it reprocs the combustible dot which will instantly tick once on application which can crit for up to 1.5k on top of that, and when all these are happening they already have their azz loaded with another 5k thermal detonator in the hole, and possibly is also being ticked by incendiary round.

Not really if you know how to play your shadow and hybridize it correctly and know how to play. And why would you need all the "tricks" when you can kill anything and everything (assuming you know how to play a shadowsin ofc) And as you said, tanksin (or any of the hybrid spec) will blow operative out of the water unless the sin/shadow is stupid and cant play. Also in case you have no idea no one is stopping you to do a tank hybrid with just 3 points in duplicity and you get to exploit the sick damage maul thats also next to free across all specs. Again as most people said, Sins are better than operative DPS by a longshot. In reality Operative are usually only used to heal, and theres really no point to take a full DPS operative over a Sin in any spec in "most" of the WZs situations. But then again as I mentioned in my pervious post, there are plenty of bad sin/shadow that will tell you operative is better however.

Or you can just 3 points in deception tree for Duplicity give them the infamous nearly free of cost 5k maul once every 9 seconds... across all specs. Of course Maul can go a lot higher like 6-7k if you go deep deception. But personally I prefer tank with super DPS with tons of utilities and being super mobile. I respec to darkness hybrid utilizing energized shock + lolmaul w/ access to chain shock. I get all the goodies like force pull, 5 second shroud, out of stealth spike, disjunction'ed force speed and passive self heals tank survivability too. I have no idea how crazy specs like this one exist... but they do.

Yes, Sins are the ONLY other AC other than Marauder who enjor all three trees being completely viable. Not just that, they are also the most hybrid happy AC in the entire game. And in many cases their hybrid specs performs even more superior compare to their full specs. Sins can choose to be super bursty, or they can choose to be super tanky, hell they can spec to be very tanky WHILE melting your face off if they choose to. DPS wise (as well as utilities as well as survivability as well as sustained burst dps as well as pve dps capability) Sins are undoubtedly better overall. One thing Operative DPS does better IMO, is their play style is closer to a real "rogue" archetype if thats what you are looking for (like Rogues in WoW). Sin even tho can stealth just like operative, they are not nearly as dependant on stealth like operative DPS. Most Sin specs fight just as well without having to get an opener from stealth whereas getting hidden strike in dictates the outcome of the fight and is the ONLY advantage operative has. Which also means when operative is unable to open with hidden strike from stealth they are very poor dps compare to premium class like Sin/Mara/PT... which unfortunately is the majority of WZ skirmishes because WZ is rarely 1v1. And all the Sin's superior group pvp utilities aside, ironically Sins also IS the best 1v1 class in swtor (requires the player to know how to play which is rare in Sin community). Operative is probably the worst dps class ever to exist in SWTOR if you dont get to open with hidden strike from stealth (and lethalty is even worse imo where most of your attacks actually keep you in combat and prevent you from able to re-stealth). Unlike operative Sins are pretty jesus in comparison for the overall playability ESPECIALLY in WZs.

But melee is more faceroll. There's a reason why melee has such a high population rightnow.

You are an operative it's just life. Oh when I mentioned my PT and MARA I wasnt really talking about the damage either... more like I can jump in and out of enemies at well, As in 1v multiple is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier than I could on my operative.... especially on my annihilation marauder.

I have full WH (yes with both EWH MH and OH as well) Sorc, Powertech, Marauder, and Operative. I love my operative mainly for the playstyle, and the thrill of the challenging while PvPing which is what I DO NOT get when playing my PT and Marauder.

Doing PvP objectives "for the 1st time" awards codex entry and handful of exp. If you get close enough to level you can level from these codex entries. Or hang on to quest turn ins and accept them in WZ.

It was removed because DEV said it was "annoying" (w t f? ? ?) yet they didnt remove PT/VG's proc grins. Maybe the TA laugh was too OPed on operatives so it has to be nerfed.

5) Yes they are included in "derpasmash monkeys" 6) While bubble stun is indeed pretty OP but unlike real fotms, bubble stun is only OP when OTHER people are using it (and yes especially OP when combined with derpasmash kiddies). Bubble stun doesnt make the sorc AoE crit 5 people for 6-9k every 9 seconds, it doesnt make them immune to all tech/force attacks and all stuns, and it doesnt make sorcs super bursty like lolburst railolshot. It's actually played to OP his TEAM not the general fotm's "lolpwnunow" mentality. Hence the exclusion.

Aint news bro. I still see plenty sages and shadows do an fairly ancient "epic" maneuver. "Backpedaling Force Speed".

Why you running? Be good stand still and let me get that "7k-in-one-hit medal" from you real quick.

Yes we need some t-shirts and more jeans.

If you guys read the "State of the Game" DEV post... which mentioned F2P (1.5) is coming at fall this year. Which I find funny because it's November already... and isnt November... winter... already?

Assassin is the most versatile and the most powerful solo 1v1 class in game they also offer the group amazing utilities. They also have amazing burst, as well as being notoriously highest dps tank in game. There's a reason why Sin has been the longest standing fotm. Just like marauders Sins too has tools to counter most things you can throw at them. Unlike marauders however sins have an effective range of 0-10m with recklessness (mainly for darkness spec) they can use one of their most power attack (darkness surge auto crit force lightning) at 30m range. Force Shroud is unbelievably powerful against most class including PT/VG if you know how to play correctly and know when to pop it. There are roughly 3 main fotm + 1 new runner up fotm spec since 1.4 1. Marauder: all trees viable and effective, most powerful group buffs, most powerful raw dmg mitigation defensive cds. Cons are they are limited to nearly pure melee range (4m). 2. Pyro PT: Fearful burst, taunts, thats mainly it. They come up short due to having literally the worst survivability of all FOTMs. 3. Sins: all trees viable and effective. Countless ways you can hybridise it and remain competitive. Most powerful anti-control defensive CD that also offer tech/force immunity. Has real stealth, can reset battle as well as forced combat drop (vanish). Has taunt, can pull if tank hybrid, can become immune to all stuns and all slows, and has the fastest burst movement speed with force speed as well as the only FOTM with a 30m mezz. Overall very balanced and well rounded class. 4. Derpasmashing Monkeys: nuff said. Lastly the biggest weakness of sin is it's complicity to be able to play to its full potential, and most players have little clue how to play it right.

Derpasmash does it better.

Merc healers are decent but compare to sorc with raid wide bubble stun and operative which is pretty immortal and effective... I will still put it subpar compare to the other two, but thats just me.

The only hybrid I can tolerate is the so called "Laceration Medic" which trade in damage for surgical probe lolspam + kolto probe for the super survivalibity. And use the TA from your KP procs and spam Laceration. All other hybrid specs I've seem are pretty bad. IMO the loss of Acid Blade is HUGE (it does good damage over a short dot, its oGCD, as well as the 30% ArPen). If you are going to opt out on all the damage you get from concealment (which isnt really that impressive to begin with compare to Warriors/Sins/PTs) you better make sure you abuse your only viable tree, Medicine, and get the super survivability that tree provides.

You might get flamed by some Assassins that dont like people to disclose certain facts about their class. Trust me I am having a lot of fun on my darkness Sin with just 3 points in duplicity. So while I am proccing for energized shocks, I am also proccing for my 5k maul (yes without the 30% surge bonus as well)... running DARK CHARGE... aka the tank stance.

Concealment has never received a tune up since what? 1.2? The other most nerfed class imo is Sorc/Sage, look they got a instant self heal, bubble stuns, and so on in 1.4. What's ironic tho, they decided to give Assassin their 3rd tree a revamp, so not only Sins are still the most hybrid versatile class in game on top of that just like Marauders all 3 of their trees (even 31 pt build) are competitive and viable in PvP while leaving operative 2 perceived as "crappy" dps tree, crappy. You have to be blind and/or ignorant and/or stupid to not see how operative is pigeonholed into healing only. Heck there are people that instantly drop WZ when they see a dps operative in raid.

I cant even imaging my HIDDEN STRIKE to crit for 6-7k like Maul, let along my backstab which is even WEAKER than hidden strike.

Funny thing is as crappy as gunnery/arsenal mando/mercs are in PvP, they still far more populated in WZ compare to concealment/Lethality operatives. However Merc/Mendo is one of the best ranged DPS AC in PvE tho.

Damange output is only out of control from few fotm classes only e.g marauder, derpasmasher, PT and so on. Doesnt apply to all DPS. BW definitely shown some interesting double standard. Sorcs used to get to wrath CL (no 100% crit) hits 5 targets for 2k to 3.5k for a crit. So Lets say average 3k damage to up to 5 enemies once every 6-9 seconds. This was deemed OPed and the entire playstyle got slaughtered. Now BW is saying "they are happy with the 6000-9000dmg AoE (depending on target expertise but I can ROUTINELY hit my guildie's sorc with 1390 expertise for 6k to 6.2k) Automatically 100% crit to up to 5 enemies once every 6-9 second is "ok but they will be monitoring it". What gives? Its not OK for sorc to have decent AoE, but its ok for warriors to have an AoE that always crits (assuming the player isnt completely stupidly noobtarded) that hits for triple (300%) the damage to same amount of targets is fine. Sometimes BW amazes me with the PvP balancing. Played UO, Lineage, Lineage 2, Ashrons Call, AC2, DCUO, DAOC, WARHammer, WoW, Rift... BW really have very little clue about PvP balancing. And they show an extreme "passive" nature in their speed (as in very very slow at...) when it comes to handling FotM/OPed skill stupidity. The only thing out of those games thats as ridiculous as the FotMs in SWTOR is a class called "Bright Wizard" from Warhammer online.

My hidden strike crits for 5.3k on 0 expertise sages, and about 4.2k on max expertise sages. None crit are little less than half of those. My rage marauder smash always crits for 8700-9200 on 0 expertise sages, and 6.2-6.5k on full WH Sages. Both toon are full WH optimized.

62 pages of Merc is TERRIBLE eh... Just go reroll a derpasmasher BW will never nerf fotm force users ever again after their 1.2 changes which got them scared.