Really... did you happen to do that as a PT?? That's shocking You know anyone can beat a class if they don't know how to play it. You sound like you have played a lot of pvp but have you played it since 3.0?

Yeah great, a nerf to shoulder cannon, that is fair, it was needed. So is that it for the nerfs or are we going to deal with the bigger class inbalance like sorcs or sins?

I am glad this has been fixed but there is still a rather large problem coming in season 4 which is class balance? You know sins/shadows running around lolling at how much they can dps, resist, immune to movement, heal, teleport & then stealth whilst leaving all their damage ticking away. Is this going to change? Also you have solo ranked still being tarnished by skank healing. If a dps sorc/sage can do a 100k healing in a single round then they aren't really dps are they? Obviously i know to get consistent good matches you go for grouped but that doesn't change what is happening to solo ranked.

Scoundrels are fine, they are balanced which i know has been a bit of a shock to the scoundrel/op community. Still amazing healing from this class though. I admit i see less dps then i used to but that is down to stealth player wanting to do dps re-rolling to sins/shadows. Kudos to you for not re-rolling =] I understand how a class feels fun, i still play my mara because it love the feel of running around with dual wielding lightsabers. Just sick of being an anchor to my team =[ much more effective on my guardian. That was funny xD Still I hope a dev can see this and begin to think that something is seriously broken xD

You are viable for grouped ranked just not yolo (solo ranked queueing). Hence why is is referred to as yolo because it is the most ridiculous excuse for a ranking system I have ever experienced. Yolo ranked is pointless, only good for grinding comms so best thing to do is to stay away from it and queue for grouped with a tank. Focused defense is also different to kolto overload because for FD to work you need to take damage. Kolto overload keeps on healing no matter what. In my opinion though i would like to see a dps merc/mando discipline have some extra survivability by having KO going up to 50% so it is also a bit of a heal. So what you are saying is that melee should have a shorter leap? So you can just free cast at us until we get into range to start doing any damage to you, melee would die before it gets anywhere near you. You also have overides to get away, increased speed and movement free. You also have a pushback which could probably use a root like the sins/sorc have because to be honest they don't really need it. The only melee classes with great movement freedom is vigi/veng guards/juggs and sins/shadows. Mara are easy to shut down, they have to sacrifice their dps to move and it doesn't last very long because it only breaks movement impairing effects it doesn't sustain them so just we slow or stun and thats them dealt with. Juggs/guards need to be stunned and slowed, obviously wait 4 secs if they are in shien form, check their buffs to see what stance they are in. I main a focus guardian and after we use our little leap there is generally nothing we can do, there is movement free from Awe if we utility it but it doesn't break roots or slows, it only makes us immune to them being applied throughout the duration.

This is now going off topic. Sin/shadow are OP. There are a few fixes needed, not sure what the devs are thinking at the moment but from what I can see season 4 is going to be just as boring as season 3. Last season was skank heals & tank/vigilance-vengeance. This season its going to be the same 3 classes and anyone who doesn't choose these classes will be at a big disadvantage and will probably loose which will lead to players becoming FoTM re-rollers or people just thinkg "Can't be arsed to lvl and gear another char, maybe i will pop back in next patch". I don't want this to happen but some serious balance is needed.

Thanks for not using caps I am just saying as a ranged class you can do all your damage at 30m so being able to be killed when melee catch you is fair. Also having off heals is useful, not amazing but useful. Ok, I am gonna say it one more time, i have a mando. I have one of every advanced class. So i know how stuff works. Dps on my mando at 30m is awesome. I have a slinger but hate turret style, on the mando i have some more movement which i prefer. Anyway what you are saying you want the same dps just a defensive buff so you can become the next sorc or sin?

That isn't really a fair poll now it is a year out of date. Melee classes tend to be favoured when it's star wars, the lightsaber is kinda awesome but with the amount of stuns, mezz, slow & roots in the game at the moment ranged is definitely dominant. There are a couple of melee per warzone. Snipers are not weak, in 1v1 they are awesome. They die constantly because of focus, you can't leave a sniper freecasting because it can destroy teams. Like a merc/mando damage is way too good to be left roaming free. I kinda see where you are coming from but sages/sorc abilities are all ranged except for pushbacks and stuns so i personally see them as ranged. Yes a few of us want gore/precision to return to something worth having, there have been a few suggestions of people asking for it to be charges instead of seconds. Yes it is weaker but it's cooldown has been reduced, as a carnage mara with 33% alacrity boost the cooldown of ravage/MS is 12secs. Which is awesome. Try saving your rage/focus builder until after doing an attack, force leap - then massacre then use builder, it helps a little. I do agree that rage/focus is a bit springy. I would love another ranged attack above 10m, would be unfair though considering we are melee, how about a reduced cooldown of force leap after using it. Like after using dual/twin saber throw the active cooldown of force charge/leap is reduced by 50%? Got some good news for you latest patch notes: You have to read this =] Yes please but it will never happen =[ I want a heal personally, saw some great suggestions out there. Like have force camo heal for 5% every sec whilst in camo. Decent amount of healing whilst hiding for a few secs could change the game. I think that this is an option in your customise UI? You might be able to change it. I personally like that i know i have an execution crit waiting for me =] Sorry for the long post, wanted to answer these

Dude i don't know where you got that from.... juggs/guards were OP, their heal was nerfed. By that point most of the damage was done to last season of ranked. The reason they normally do so much in warzones is because they are never focussed. Ranged classes are weak? So being a sorc or a PT means you are weak? Sniper damage is weak? Sniper is the counter class to melee so they are fine against any melee class but sins which are sought of in the middle because they can now hit at 30m (Yeah that makes a lot of sense)

It is the fact you can do great dps from 30m range. I would rather have less dps and a bit more survivability. In terms of how quickly you can hit people from 30m you do bring the dps. I would like to see merc/mando given some more survivability but it will come at the cost of dps. Everyone is going nuts at hatred sins at the moment having great survivability and great damage so the nerf bat should hit them hard soon enough. I agree that something needs to change for the mando/merc but i do think that they are ok in their current state. In a 4v4 who would you go for first, the sniper or the merc? The merc because of off heals normally and off heals change the whole game in 4v4 dps.

Finally crippling throw is back except it needs utility points which is a bit of a bummer considering how we need to put 2 points into obfuscate to make it useful in pvp so was hoping for it to go back to the way it was but it's a step in the right direction =] Doesn't the sin force shroud have a 1 min cooldown? Why does it have to go up by a minute? Don't get me wrong i am glad it has been redesigned so it is useful again so big thankyou The biggest issue about our class hasn't been addressed, which in my opinion is how easy it is to stun/control/root/laugh-at/slow. For instance: can we activate Undyingrage/GBTF while stunned? I think that is what we really need because we get stunned and we die, there is no other way of looking at it. I know most classes die when they get stunned but we use breaker and get stunned again anyway. We might be able to use breaker then undying rage but then we use 2 big DCD and most of the time people will just stun and wait through undying rage anyway.

Well i think it is fair to say no surprises there xD I do agree with you with the ranked trolls, I think there needs to be a 2018 min requirement for expertise for queueing, maybe even minimum mods being 168. I was in a ranked match the other day with a player in full brutal mods which he stated its a few less lvls in terms of mods but i was like yes but bolster doesn't give the HP boost so he died first and was a shadow (how that happened i will never know). Also maybe a minimum valor lvl, it isn't hard to farm up valor. You would probably get valor up pretty high just farming basic pvp gear before you could even queue for ranked. Not saying warlord lvl 90 more like lvl 50 so it is passed being able to buy ranked comms.

I haven't played a merc because i have a mando. I do opposites so i have 1 of each advanced class. What i have also seen in ranked is mercs/mandos thinking heavy armor will be enough to stand at the front and shoot first..... great thinking there (i am not saying it was you, i am just saying it happens). Yes you can do great ranged damage at ==> range <== but you can be leaped very easily. Heavy armor doesn't = being able to face tank. Kiting includes keeping objects between you and the dps, i have been on teams with mando and mercs kiting the enemy team members past us whilst we hit them and they are ignoring us because they are obsessed with going for mando/merc. Players sometime get tunnel vision which can be easily exploited. If they go for you in the first round and it doesn't work they probably will try starting on someone else which means you can burn them down because you guys bring the dps.

Exactly, good dps classes are focussed first. Merc and sniper for instance have great ranged damage, which is why they have to be focused first. I saw a merc who decided to try kiting and using positioning in ranked the other day and it worked, he was able to keep everyone off long enough for his team to support him. Snipers get cover and merc doesn't which means you get leaped, but do sorcs stand out waiting for leap or use corners and objects to stop that from happening? I am not saying l2p, i admit compared to other classes you don't have the best utilities but good players do have the opportunity to shine in this class. I would like to see some damage reduced and survivability increased to merc/mando because in pvp i believe that survivability is a key feature and better off then pure glass cannon.

Unremitting/unstoppable is the key for melee. Every ranged class having a stun means mara/sent is just stunned to death in any situation. Ranged classes can kite, mara does not have the option to kite. I see less and less melee in warzones everyday, if there was unremitting/unstoppable heroic utility point it would help melee to have an edge by being melee. It will have different effect on different forms like this: Unremitting/Unstoppable - Grants immunity to all character impairing effects after force leap/charge, has different effects depending on lightsaber form: Shien grants 4 secs immunity Aturu grants 3 secs immunity (enough for ravage/master strike, before people complain, damage was nerfed in 3.0) Shii-cho grants 3 secs immunity Juyo grants 2s immunity (they have reduced leap time so they shouldn't have too much immunity) Soresu does not benefit from unremitting/unstoppable (tanks can absorb the damage, they don't need the immunity) Being melee would be encouraged because you actually have a reason to jump in instead of waiting for the fight to start before doing anything and the skill of players using their stuns would actually have to think about it instead of just seeing a leap then stunning without even thinking.

That sounds perfect, i think /say should be suppressed in warzones in general. It is so annoying when players from opposite team are spamming you with so much crap when you are trying to read messages from your team.

Merc damage is great. I have seen commando in ranked topping dps easily, which is why they are focused first, like a sniper they are too dangerous to leave free casting, leave them and they will destroy everything. You have an aoe pushback, shield, movement immunity, kolto overload, stun, good damage and off heals. I understand that utilities aren't amazing but still not too bad. I think the key is positioning, use corners to your advantage. When i am on my commando i try not to stand in front of everyone, heavy armor means less utilities. I have seen some great mandos using positioning in a warzone to their advantage, dont look obvious, sorcs and sages stand out like a saw thumb and are always targetted.

lol, imagine that as the first old republic film xD

Good idea for thread. I see how balance at the moment is just crazy =[ I personally would prefer counter classes. Rock paper scissors style, i am totally with you on that. Except at the moment scissors (sins, sorcs & PT) can beat rock and paper, there is no counter class to them, just using the same class which brings it down to skill and gear. As a game which i have heard was in the top 20 most played games of 2014, it should have the developers thinking about gameplay instead of money. I know it is a business in to making money that is understandable (Thanks EA) but if they make the game better, that will bring in more players, instead of making a quick buck, make long term millions. I love this game and i play pure pvp for its variety as long as its fun but at the moment there is not a variety classes which means not as much fun.

I wonder if any nerf bats will be swung before pre season is over

I want to say yes, last season i played 10games of yolo because after that i got bored of pure skank heals & tanks. Which is probably what we are in for this season, i thought the discipline system would fix that issue but they gave dps heal over time and sages & sorcs are still hitting 9k single heals. In a 4dps vs 4dps situation it isn't really 4 dps if someone goes off tank on someone wearing healing gear. My main problem will always be the balance is crazy at the moment. I want to see things made a bit fairer but if no changes are going to come until after the season starts, i don't see the point in playing before then :/ I have had a few yolo matches for pre-season which have consisted of sins, PT & sorcs. In a match again 2 pt and you have no healer there is just no point in playing xD Only sages can survive the burst with barrier. If you stealth you get stealth scanned and if you use breaker they stun again, can't afford to wait for a 5 sec stun to wear off. If class balances are made i will be there with a smile but if they stay the same i will stick to casual regs which i am already getting bored of, reg warzones with 5 sorcs on a team, fighting the same classes is just boring.

Mara/sent days are over ladies & gentlemen. They released a thread saying changes would happen to the class but it won't be for a while. Season 4 ranked will start before the change. As people have said, shelve it until it is viable again, if you are looking for be a good class, sin, sorc of PT is the way to go.

Sins/shadows have root breakers as immunity already. They have shroud, speed & deflection. Totally agree on rooting/slow being on resolve, i have had times where i have just been rooted in place for 8secs+ by a few sorcs (since there are now so many of them)

Yes giving out unremitting may make everything go a little mad but at the moment with all the cc, what is the point of being melee when 90% of warzones are ranged. I find myself being the only guardian or mara in a warzone. It isn't fun jumping in alone, even with ranged on your side you are just focused constantly by a team of ranged classes. I don't blame them, with all the mez, slow, roots & stuns what reason is there to be melee? Sins/shadows are not effected because they have enough ranged abilities to use, a root breaker and immunity to everything. Yes it sounds like it would change things but at this point there needs to be some change, either less cc (every class has stuns) or cc immunity, especially towards the classes who only deal damage in melee range. As a player who has always preferred melee and has tried all the ranged classes in the game, I still enjoy being melee, it just feels like a melee class should be able to get in close and stay near a ranged class but instead we jump and stunned or slowed or rooted or mezzed. So melee deserve a counter to this, a 2min breaker is useless and resolve doesn't effect rooting (I wish it did, i also wish resolve worked). Even on my guardian i couple of coordinated sin & sorc just stuck me in place for a good 8 secs and there was nothing i could do.

Interesting ideas. I like the idea of making form utilities. I see how Ataru could go a bit mad for 4 secs, if it were to get immunity 2.5 secs then it could only use ravage/MS or go for devastating blast & viscous throw. I just think with all the stuns and slows it would encourage more melee to have it as a shared utility. Shii-cho jump in and get stunned a lot of the time, i like the sound of damage reduction because they do need to sit still a lot. A 10m leap doesn't help when ranged have 30-35m on you. Juyo sounds good idea, but being rooted means you can't leap which may cause some issues but i like the sound of the reset.