That's on a PVE server though. On a PVP server, the Tatooine PVP area is the balloon that takes you to the datacrons, or the sand crawler they are at. Your reward is boost to stats and a matrix shard, or simply that the other guy doesn't get those and just lost half an hour or more of his play time. (But he did get to fight meaningful PVP for it, so it's not entirely a loss...) (Who seriously goes to the FFA area anyway? Can't even do arranged guild FFAs there because guildmates are automatically considered friendly...)

Meh thanks to the inability to get any level 50 gear at all before hitting 50, all of my remaining characters below 50 will be hitting valor rank 50 before they can get anything.

It's not less random because you spend more time doing the same dailies and weeklies to gear up randomly. It makes sense from a business point of view because they don't actually have to give us more content if they can keep us playing by making it harder to get to the top tier. That doesn't mean people are going to be overjoyed though, after all most of us probably think EA is already making too much money for the kind of quality they put out.

You see, the thing is, it's going to be less random to get your first set of gear. That's nice for new 50ies. It's going to be more random to get later tiers, which is bloody annoying for existing 50ies, and working for random rewards is still going to account for the majority of your time at 50. No, people asked if maybe the other crafting professions could perhaps receive a boost, seeing as how crafted items are all worse than random daily quest rewards at 50. Instead they opted to nerf Biochem twice so that it's also worthless now. So basically in addition to the people who like the other professions and complained that they were worthless, now the Biochem people are complaining as well, and that was bloody well predictable, too. Yeah well. The operative nerf did two things. It took the burst out of a burst class, and it accidentally made it easier for them to stunlock people. It's less fun for either side now. Well, sorry to break it to you like this, but most of us are playing now, and most likely not in the future, because we decide what happens to our subscription plan based on what we get in return for our money right now.

Well if every single one is worthless at least you don't have to bother with any of them... it's kind of work clicking all those buttons... It's really a shame though that they can't seem to make them useful for end game. You spend all this time on crafting while leveling, it actually does help with leveling too, but it's still a lot of extra work to RE all the recipes and everything you might need/want at higher levels... then you hit 50 and it's instantly worthless because everything else you can get anywhere else in the game is better. Just another of these things where a feature is fun until you hit 50, game appears to be full of those.

No it should not, what the hell is wrong with you, why should we all feel that we need gear to win a fight? That's silly.

You don't, is the problem. You can arrive at level 50 and hit valor rank 50 at the same time and have nothing to show for it except six random bags and level 40 gear.

That's seriously hard to believe for me when even my Scoundrel with no particular focus on endurance has 12.2k in the old level 40 pvp gear with just some changed mods I stuck in before that character hit 50... what kind of mid-40s stuff is that you're wearing? (Maybe the level 40 PVP gear has more endurance than other gear, I dunno...) EDIT: Right, my Scoundrel is Light V because of Diplomacy... that explains it, however there are other options, they're just not as easily bought in a shop.

Just make them craftable...

What you're saying is that you can choose utility over doing damage in battles and still be useful, which is true. However, not every class has the same kind of options that a shadow has. I'm pretty sure I could be useful on my shadow if I play naked just because taunts, guard, CC and force pull/wave and all that will do exactly the same thing completely regardless of gear. Now try it on a scoundrel/operative and you have a class that's designed to be either burst damage or heal focused not being able to use most of their abilities as efficiently, since aside from a bit of cc and interrupting, everything is affected by gear. Then go look at one of the pure DPS classes that live on their gear and their gear alone, like gunslingers/snipers or sentinels/marauders and it gets even worse.

That doesn't sound bad? The slicing nerf basically changed a button that took x credits from you and gave you back x*2 or something like that after half an hour to a button that doesn't just make you credit-rich automatically anymore...

Actually, if you were talking about Mortal Online... which is unfortunately severely lacking on the technical and mechanical side... but yeah go check it out, if there's nothing else to say about it, at least they tried to make it not like WOW...

The class is fine, it just doesn't really need a nerf that's mostly going to hurt tank specced ones...

Well... no... you could use Force Potency to get guaranteed crits before...

Is that a bug? I mean, getting there? You can just walk there from spawn, or are we talking about different areas? What is a bug there, though, is that you can avoid the deserter debuff by walking back and forth between the spawn area and one of the sides. It'll toggle off and on every time you cross that visible line on the ground (or roughly thereabouts). The kind of exploit this allows is e.g. if you're a shadow/assassin tank, you can just stay at spawn from the time the match starts and when an enemy ball carrier does come too close, you can pull him up from stealth. That sounds worse than just being able to get up there... In Civil War though you have no business being near spawn because the only reason you would be there is you're camping their spawn, which you shouldn't be doing. Also, after death. On some maps - mostly Voidstar though - it's entirely possible to miss the gate opening if you don't realize it's open right away. And guess what, sometimes the visual effect is broken and it doesn't actually look like it's open when it opens. Yeah you can prevent it by just running against it to find out, but what kind of a workaround is that...

Well to be fair, one of the Watchman/Annihilation buffs is a actually just a bug fix. But yeah. I play a Sentinel and a Shadow and this is just... I mean aside from bug fixes, about the only thing that makes sense in those notes is that sprint presists through death. (On top of that, I'm sure there'll be more Sentinel/Marauder buffs incoming anyway since there's so much forum QQ about the class being "bad"...)

I don't know why that's always the first thing people say. What I read is that they want to close the gap, not how. That many of you are now crying about incoming nerfs just shows what you think PVP is, you like winning by gear superiority. Did it not occur to you that they could just re-introduce the level 50 blue pvp gear that was in game in beta, or they could make it easier to get Centurion gear (which you, right now, get after your better Champion gear)? And the whole "for free, no effort" argument breaks apart there if they opt to just give us a way to work for level 50 pvp gear before we hit level 50. I mean it's possible with the level 20 and 40 gear, so why not with the 50 gear as well? Or at least the first set? How is that a problem for those who already have Champion or Battlemaster gear, at all?

Well I'm complaining about all sorts of things and I'm still here because I wanted to see more of the story when my first month was up. I think it's too early to say anything about retention because SWTOR undeniably has a lot of lower level story content that can keep you busy even when you really don't like some other aspects of the game. Now I've seen enough though and my subscription is cancelled after this month, and I don't think I'm the only one who treats SWTOR like that. Basically a single player RPG that you play for one or two months with some multiplayer features, of which those that I like don't work very well...

Where does it say that they're going to nerf anything? What I read is that they want to close the gap a little. Yeah that's possible with a nerf, but it's also possible by re-introducing the blue level 50 PVP gear or by giving us a chance to buy Centurion gear early or something like that. In both cases, we'll also have to work for it, so other than the fact that this is Bioware and that company has a particular history of making specific bad decisions, I see no reason to be offended just yet?

In PVE though, that player can choose to gear up by doing some tier 1 PVE stuff and get tier 1 PVE gear, which will be enough to do some tier 2 PVE stuff and get tier 2 gear, which will be enough to do some tier 3 PVE stuff and get tier 3 gear and so on. At no point does he have to go into tier 3 with tier 0 PVE equipment and stay there for a month before he can actually hope to take down a boss. That is the kind of thing that PVP players have to deal with right now. If there were separate queues for separate tiers of PVP gear, nobody would complain. Heck even if there weren't but the system wasn't screwed up as badly as that you get your tier 2 set before you can realistically expect to have a tier 1 set, the gap would be smaller, and people would complain less because they'd stand a better chance in a fight sooner. And then the argument also works the other way around. Some of us just don't enjoy PVP very much when the outcome is predictable just based on gear, no matter which side we're on. I don't really need to, or want to, play a video game that's designed around the premise that I can only win my battles if I have a mechanical advantage. That's stupid, I want to win because I finally learned how to play, not because sitting through random button mashing for a month rewarded me with better gear.

If you seriously have a hard time understanding the concept of learning your own class and every single other class and learning to predict how every single opponent you may face may react to you, I don't know why you even bother with games at all. I mean, they must be some sort of "click button, monkey get banana" thing for you if you think there's nothing you can learn in this genre, and get comparatively good at through experience and, yes, skill?

Well, see, I do spend a lot of time in PVP but when I hit 50 on my current character it'll be just as powerless as the last characters that got there. Even though this one will hit 50 and valor rank 50 at the same time. The last one only made it to Centurion and the one before only to Gladiator. But I have nothing to show for it - about the only thing I can buy for all that time spent is level 40 equipment and level 46 weapons, and I'm facing a significant amount of time where I just suddenly drop in effectiveness and PVP suddenly is just less fun than it used to be. I'm not complaining specifically about people out-gearing me while I get actual PVP experience, but why would I even log on to my level 50 characters if I know I'll have way more fun on the lower level ones? If it comes to this kind of situation then something is broken, plain and simple. Time spent on PVP has nothing at all to do with it. It's only time spent on PVP after level 50 that counts, and that is on top of all things affected by faction imbalance and silly things like kill trading/spawn camping on Ilum are worth more than actual PVP. Of course, because level 50 pvp is in that kind of state, it's even less interesting to someone who's used to halfway decently balanced PVP before 50.

I disagree as well. You know, the point of PVP is mainly that you don't need as much content as in PVE because players acting differently every single time makes up for the lack of dedicated PVP content. Yeah I can play for months in PVE - I think "two" is a better estimate for all class stories if you start skipping the planet quests at some point, because it took me just a little above one to see the four Republic stories, but that includes leveling *two* Smugglers and *two* Consulars and generally doing a lot of PVP as well. But even if it takes you much longer, the thing is, everything that happens there other than the story is predictable. I approach a group of mobs, I know exactly what's going to happen. I need exactly one fixed rotation and everything just dies. PVP is a different battle every single time and the focus is on the battle, in PVE though mobs are just fillers that ensure I don't go through the story even faster. The other thing is that if you spread out PVP content more, then of course you're also spreading out players. There's already somewhat of a negative effect the warzones have on Ilum, mainly because warzones in the lower level bracket actually work and almost make sense, but there are servers where at least one side doesn't even bother with Ilum anymore. We decidedly don't need more content like Ilum, we need more PVP content that's actually working first. On PVP servers, there is of course a little more PVP content, btw. It's not working very well - and on PVP servers it's also affected by the potential opponents being spread out across the galaxy and across different instances of the same planet - but if you're bored you can always go somewhere other than Ilum/warzones and maybe find a fight elsewhere. Yeah there are no shiny rewards (other than merc commendations on Tat but who seriously goes there?), but that's not what you're after if you like PVP, right? (I'll admit that this does favour players like me who basically just like being on their own in a hostile environment... I feel bad for people who complain about being ganked, for me it's part of the reason I play on PVP servers, I want to feel like I'm doing something right to survive, more than just using some fixed rotation to deal with mobs.)

No, he's not... this is just how randomness works. Statistically, most people will eventually get their stuff. But also, statistically, there will be those with extremely bad luck. You can calculate how many people exactly you can expect to have bad luck, but with the amount of subscribers that SWTOR had at launch, you don't really need to in order to know that there must be plenty unlucky players who don't feel too great about the system due to no fault of their own.

Yeah, one thing is though in DAoC as it is today, it's not a huge grind to get to 50, so I'm taking that as a hint that you haven't been there in a while. Looking back it wasn't that great ten years ago - but they've made a ton of improvements all over the place, and now we don't only have nostalgia, we actually see new games and think, why couldn't they benefit from the experience with some of the older ones like DAoC...