I'm getting the same feeling as well. Whatever "metrics" they are using, concerning DPS, are clearly off. Burst in PvP (which is the definition of DPS, sustained DPS means jack *****) and sustained DPS in PvE (just have a look at ANY DPS leaderboard..OP's, FP's, Dummies) are well below ~5% of top performers. So, nerf IR/IM and buff AP/TD so it equals a DPS wash. Brilliant. DCD's are a step in the right direction. We can live longer while pushing garbage DPS in PvP. If I'm using those DCD's in PvE, forget about it. How difficult can math be?

I am well aware of how each tree, even hybrid, parses since 2.0. I've done extensive testing. Issues, well I don't have issues. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot here with my following comments, but I'm sure this isn't very difficult to understand. I over perform as a VG/Assault. I consider myself an serious, exceptional "casual" player. For example, in 69/69/66 gear, I'm <100 DPS off of being in top 50 in almost all FP encounters on Torparse. (strangely enough several top 10's at the moment in MR...must be a major bug ) In my last 10 WZ's (9 wins all Pug'd), I finished top in damage 9 times, including 689k in the first round of a VS. Still lacking the burst and DCD's to be seriously competitive, though. Anyway, my point is this: Having 2/3 viable trees is NOT acceptable. Especially, when the tree in question, Assault/Pyro, was TOTALLY viable pre 2.0. I could play a sniper, 'slinger, or marauder. I do not enjoy those AC's more than my VG. Therefore, I would like to see some reasonable changes that put the AC in a place where they can be competitive (~5% SWTOR standard) in DPS. With the healing increase and the sheer amount of DPS sniper/slinger and marauder/sents put out, as well as their excellent DCD's in 2.4, there is no reason Assault/Pyro cannot get back some, if not most to all, of it's burst pre 2.0. To ignore the struggling AC's (I know Assault/pyro is not alone) for a year, is abysmal and irresponsible. DPS leaderboards show a clear disparity, and nothing is being done to correct this. 2.4 is a MINOR increase, if any. I know I'm just wasting my breath. I've been MMO'ing for quite some time ('03), and I know the free passes, excuses, and "metrics" the Dev teams get away with that allow FotM to run rampant. I, however, believe in accountability. And 2/3 is not acceptable.

Sadly, you're probably correct. But, I just don't understand, how I can log into PTS for 2 days and run over a 100 parses (in both DPS specs, plus some hybrid) and PROVE these changes (DPS) are minimal, at best. IM/IR nerf negates TD/AP buff. the only improvement is in the defense department. clearly, a change intended for PvP. (or soloing 50 HM's...LOL/COL, both laughing and crying ) I have no baseline for AP/Tactics DPS, so I cannot speak, with knowledge, on the spec. As far as Pyro/Assault, it's still WELL below top performing AC's...WELL BELOW ~5%, on dummies, and actual encounters (FP/OPs). So, where are all these "metrics" they speak of? How is it possible to not have the knowledge or math showing this? I can do it in a matter of hours. PvE class balance should be a matter of math. you can reduce the amount of variables. it cannot be that difficult. unless of course, they are balancing classes based on PvP.

Some of my favorites... D-3 Searing Disintegrator http://www.torhead.com/item/eICNYTu/d-3-searing-disintegrator#screenshots M-400 Nova Rifle http://www.torhead.com/item/alN90Rg/m-400-nova-rifle#screenshots;view:10874 M-500 Nova Disintegrator http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/17898/M-500-Nova-Disintegrator P-7 Military Enforcer http://www.torhead.com/item/4kMl4Xb/p-7-military-enforcer#screenshots CD-33 Blaster Rifle https://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/50951/cd-33-blaster-rifle

DPS guide is as follows: Reroll. Tank guide: hold agro, guard your best, in-range DPS. Naw, j/k (kinda) if you are looking for a DPS guide, first you need to decide which spec you prefer. Tactics or Assault. Tactics, is mostly about 3 stacks of "pulse generator". the rotation is pretty easy as well. keep gut on, PC at 3 stacks, IP, or free SS. once you practice on a dummy, you'll see how it is quite intuitive, and not heavily proc reliant. just 3 stacks and a free SS. Assault, well...I have my own opinion on Assault. I run 8-8-30 (currently, no reason to take AP, or any of the top 4 talents). IR, HiB, IP, HiB, IP, HS, IP, HiB..on the 4th rotation, IR, IP, IP, HiB...and continue. you can remain <10m and maintain MAX DPS. (according to my parses SS is a wash for DPS...see any of my previous posts) you will have little to no ammo issues, even using MV (IP, HiB...or IP, IP, HiB) as needed. and Reserve Powercell and Recharge Cells during burn phase (adrenal, relic, battle focus, shoulder cannon) I'm a long time Pyro/Assault, so I don't play tactics...but, it parses higher than assault, and will continue to do so, post 2.4. (as my parsing indicates) I just prefer the range and play style. also, my personal preference, Assault for PvP. I love to kite. some would say I am doing it wrong, but I do quite well. to each his own. i'm not on any uber ranked, hardcore team...but, I was a server first BM, I have some PvP experience...but, what do I know? (again play style preference) Tanking, I wish I could offer you some solid advice, but from my limited testing and playing as SS, I would hate to steer you wrong. people are saying hybrid SS/tactics is pretty viable in PvP...again, i'm assault, so I can't really say. gearing for assault, acc to 100% (HiB NEEDS to hit). then I stack power, with crit/surge(23%/70%) on MH/OH. Aim augments. I use Elara for solo PvE and have had no issues with 50 HM's (except Battle for Ilum, final boss. haven't tried LI) and kingpin bounties were a cakewalk. anything else you can think of, just ask...i'll try my best to help.

That is correct. also, you can spec into harpoon immobilizing the target. Oh and storm interrupts AND immobilizes. and you can spec into 30% speed after a storm. the only thing, besides competitive DPS, I would like on my VG is a push. I love me some pushing stuff offa cliffs

If talking about tanking, then we must be compared to other tanks, not commandos and such. and i'm not sure Shadow tanks would agree with you assessment on their ability to absorb more damage. Not trying to pick apart your thoughts or ideas, I just disagree with VG, tank or DPS, needing more CC.

yeah burst is still garbage. math is a hard thing to explain to those that do not understand it. all else aside, 2.4 does not put a full pyro spec anywhere near top performing DPS AC's. and IP not proc'ing PC 100% is a NERF to damage. and all I've done is prove this through parsing...not enough for some. but, everybody is allowed their opinions, and personal play styles. I just want the Assault/Pyro DPS spec to be competitive at....DPS!!

I didn't test tactics, at all. I don't care for the spec. And yes, normally, I would be using MV, SC, PC, adrenals, and relic. This was controlled testing on rotations, and comparing the "buffs" and "nerfs" from live to PTS. again, i'm not BiS, 69/69/66, mostly. No set bonuses.

Fixed.

couldn't have said it better myself. I have also played Merc/PT pyro, since it was Firebug in beta I guess I've been doing it wrong for quite some time now. which I definitely find ironic, since I've held #1 overall DPS spots on TORPARSE in FPs and OPs (SM and HM), as well as, #3 server parse in 61's. (when 63's were BiS) my EXTENSIVE parsing shows using RP/SS as a wash...the ONLY thing I do >10m is interrupt. as a server 1st BM, I've had a little experience in PvP...and the only "buffs" Pyro/Assault received were in the defensive department, and a minor (laughable) increase to burst, via the sarcastically OP TD/AP buff. after about 100 parses, I still parse higher on live as 8-8-30, than in ANY spec I tested on PTS (except once...which was 8 DPS higher on PTS...8) p.s. out of my 20 highest parses using Riot Augs versus 20 highest parses not using RIOT Augs...the average damage of SS was 10 DPS higher with RA than w/out...hardly 6%...EDIT: and on average, w/ RA is ~40-50 DPS LOSS versus w/out. taking RNG into account, and running over 100 parses (on dummies and in FP's), MY testing has show using SS is a wash...and, with my incorrect play style, i'd rather kite and stay >9m <10m.

Everything you said is true parroting my other posts concerning this, I'm not BiS (I just got my 72 barrel 2 days ago ), but the damage nerf to IR/IM is roughly ~100 DPS. Expect more in better gear. the "buff" to AP/TD is roughly ~100 DPS. Expect more in better gear. so, it's basically a wash. but, with the defensive changes, which are a decent improvement, you are almost force to go full Pyro spec if you plan to PvP as Pyro. In PvE, 8-8-30 is still viable, as it is within 80-100 DPS compared to full Pyro (on average, ~50 DPS). RNG has much to do with this. and you can stay >10m and enjoy the show, instead of staring at the boss's sack, (just my personal preference), or run around kiting when you have a tank that guards the healer in pugs

which is what takedown, ambush, and followthrough hit for on my sniper.

Speak for yourself, I'm DPS. I still don't think we need more CC...we just need pre 2.0 damage, which at the time was still competitive (not OP) versus top performing AC's such as marauder and snipers. I don't care if we're not TOP DPS...I would just like to compete and be ~5%. revert our damage, and who needs CC?

the changes on PTS to TD/AP do a little to help this...about 100DPS overall, but a bit more bursty with some timely crits. but, still not enough to be competitive versus current top performing AC's.

TD will be worth it after 2.4, IM will not. and, since you will be picking up the extra defenses high up in the tree, might as well pick up TD. Pyro/Assault spec, that is. And that is for PvP only!!! (PvE, it is still a wash with other specs and the almighty RNG) the nerfs to FB and IM are pretty bad, to an already DPS starved AC. I play my VG as a kiter. the only thing I am doing within 4m is interrupting, even with the changes to RP on PTS. I've parsed it hundreds of times and it usually comes out as a wash versus FB-RS-FB-Rail rotation. thanks RNG. from live to 2.4 FB "spam" and IM is about a 150-200 DPS LOSS, on average. and with TD being roughly a 100 DPS gain, these so called "DPS Buffs" couldn't be further from the truth. (from my experience) I agree So-low...TERRIBLE changes that only further nerf the PT/VG, offensively. but, nothing we say, prove via parsing, etc. will change the minds of the combat "team" and their metrics. so the ~100 DPS "buff" from full Pyro/Assault TD/AP (which is a wash due to the almost 100 DPS LOSS from IR/IM)is going to put us ~5% of snipers and marauders and other top performing AC's in PvP or OPs? not a chance in hell.

My rotation is FLAWLESS. TD/AP is off CD for <.5 seconds. next, in this rotation, I've had HiB NOT proc (SS-HS-IP...IP-HS-SS...SS-AP-IP...IP-HS-IP fillers, as CD's allow)maybe 2-3 times per 6+ minute parses...not really an issue. I believe ya, on the dummy vs. actual boss scenario. i'm just testing specs and rotations... and i'm seeing a + ~100 DPS in full assault (AP/TD damage buff), and a - ~100 DPS in my 8-8-30 spec (IR damage nerf). I guess that's a "buff". when VG/PT is constantly outperformed by several hundred DPS, a ~100 "buff" is TINY step in the right direction to making VG/PT DPS competitive. (full Assault/Pryo) from my PoV, this is a PvP buff...NOT a PvE buff.

Live parse following same rotation/restrictions as above: 5-5-36 http://www.torparse.com/a/430160/1/0/Damage+Dealt this damage buff is roughly plus ~100. RNG is a huge factor, but following the same controlled rotation, every time (minus a lag hiccup or nostromo FTF) they are within 100 DPS. not gonna put us on par with top performing DPS AC's EDIT: 8-8-30 http://www.torparse.com/a/430171/4/0/Damage+Dealt My spec got nerfed

From my post on PT forums:

I'm at a loss. I've THOROUGHLY tested every possible assault spec and it is maddening. The RNG factor plays such a huge role, I almost believe their is a code or formula restricting DPS!! (less DPS on SS WITH Riot Augs, for example) the testing I did was what I would call "controlled testing". i.e. no relic clicking, adrenals, or battle focus. I wanted to remove as many variables as I could. I followed strict rotations, omitting MV, and sticking with IR, IP, SS, AP, and HiB(depending on my spec), on CD. What I have found is full assault spec is still personal preference in PvE. In PvP, I would recommend it for burst and defensive CD's. I'm not BiS, so obviously my numbers are lower that expected. and again, I was not attempting to break any records (no adrenals, relic clickies), I was testing full spec versus others. 5-5-36 http://www.torparse.com/a/430095/14/0/Damage+Dealt 8-8-30 http://www.torparse.com/a/430095/11/0/Damage+Dealt As far as FULL Assault spec being more attractive, personal preference, I say. And for PvE, I really enjoy the ability to sit at 9.90m and pull just as much DPS, AND be able to watch the fight, not the boss's sack. not to mention in zones like CZ, the droid boss w/ the charged plating, I can sit at 9.90m, RARELY get pulled (HO), and achieve maximum DPS, or pretty darn close. EDIT: Aim-3067 Acc-100.24% Crit-22.08%(25.56 and 28.56% Tech) Surge-68.34% Pwr-1377.7

I'm not crazy, I swear. But, I am 100% positive it was 22 ammo 2 days ago, now it is 16. I even wrote the values down to compare vs live. also, on that same day of testing, it had my VG as a Commando on Torparse. IDK, guess i'll go test it again!!

I have parsed VG/Assault (NOT in min/max) but in SAME gear from live. I typed an extensive post covering my nearly 5 hours of parsing yesterday, only to have it lost when I hit "submit replay". the DPS "buff" for Pyro/Assault is MINIMAL...~50-80 DPS on AVERAGE. all depending on RNG (see some of my other posts concerning this. i.e. Riot Augs). AP/TD ammo/heat increase makes it non-viable in sustained DPS rotations without issues. DPS increase comes from IM/IR heat decrease, thus being able to sustain it in a working rotation. I would love to see some metrics on VG/PT DPS... My extensive testing shows minimal DPS increase in PvE. Assault/Pyro spec only. (I did not test Tactics/AP. I do not care for the spec)

Great post, btw. Couldn't agree more with everything. Concerning PvE, I had absolutely NO issue managing ammo(heat) and keeping both dots on target, following a pretty strict rotation. I like the change to IR/IM. AP/TD on the other hand, cannot be maintained in PvE. So, end talent in Assault/Pyro is still pretty useless in PvE (DPS loss due to ammo/heat management on >3 min parses). But, an overall ~50-80 DPS increase still puts us nowhere near top performing Snipers, 'Slinger, Marauders, and Sentinels. NOWHERE NEAR!! From a Assault/Pyro PvE perspective..

I love my VG/Assault (PT/Pyro). It is hands down my favorite class to play. Play what you like, play what you're good at. PT/VG is still very far behind in terms of DPS, Top Performers vs. Top Performers. But, I pull agro in EVERY HM I run, and always wind up being guarded. Again, these are Pugs. If you love the class play it. If you want to top DPS charts, you will be HIGHLY disappointed.

I wrote an extensive post last night, actually early this morning, concerning the new 2.4 Assault changes, I lost it w/ a 505 error...I was pissed! overall, the "buff" to DPS is about ~50-80 DPS, depending on the almighty RNG. i.e. SS w/ Riot Augs = 17.58% 34 Stockstrike 96420 289.17 2835.88 26.47% SS w/out RAugs = 17.5% 34 Stockstrike 96293 291.46 2832.15 35.29% the ammo increase to AP/TD (up from 16 to 22) makes it unusable in sustained DPS fights (>3 minutes), keeping SS, MV, and IR on CD/Dot uptime. the ammo decrease to IR/IM (down to 16 from 22) makes it now reliable in a sustained DPS fight. That is where the increase in DPS is coming from. (DoT uptime and ammo management) I believe my rotation to be almost flawless, and on my best parses, I made absolutely no mistakes. I'm not BiS gear, mostly 69's (and MH barrel 66 ), so the parse values won't seem that great. I ran several controlled parses. no stims, reserve PC, BF...just to ensure an EXACT rotation (see above SS example). so again, my numbers will not be making any top 10's, but the testing was very precise and thorough. (I did run several "all out parses, as well) the DPS "buff" to Assault will not be making us competitive anytime in the near future, in PvE. the defensive changes and burst w/ AP/TD (associated w/ Parallactic Combat Stims which allows it to be part of a sustained rotation, even tho "rotations" are not really used in PvP, read: ammo management) makes for a promising improvement in PvP. Still nowhere near the DPS/damage potential of Snipers, Marauders, Deception Assy. Overall, I am NOT impressed.