SaerethDL
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Posts posted by SaerethDL
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I, personally, am astounded how bad this expansion is going to be. BW took 2ish years during covid to brain storm a cool expansion and this is what we got. Seriously? This is what the best and brightest at BW have to offer? Just astounded and insulted.
cool, you have played the complete expansion already? Where do I sign up?
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Just letting you guys know, we are in the single digits now! 9 days left till 7.0
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He never does. He just keeps regurgitating the same talking points over and over again.
You're wasting your time dude. Concepts such as risk vs reward are completely foreign to him. In his world, players who do nothing more than popping in and playing easy content should get the same rewards as groups doing hard content that has an actual possibility of failure.
Yeah I started seeing this a few pages back.. I guess I'm just bored enough to entertain him for now lol.
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My god, is it so hard to realize the basics of the compulsion loop? There is a reason why ALL of the MMORPGs are following it, and it has nothing to do with raiders - it's all about getting the highest neurochemical reward.
Anticipation->Action->Reward. And SWTOR is no exception to it: the game has essentially 3 difficulty modes: story, hard, nightmare.
The problem is that there is only one type of content that has the highest difficulty - ops. Thus only one type of person is eligible for the highest kind of reward - raider. Story mode ops award you the first tier of the current end game gear so that you could progress to hard mode. By progressing harder difficulty ops you get even better gear so that you could take on the highest difficulty. Completion of each cycle award you that pesky dopamine.
And it's exactly how it should be: if you don't bother spending countless hours wiping on the hardest content in the game - why on Earth should you get the best gear for no reason?
Yup simple concept really, the problem here I think is that bioware has given them a sense of entitlement with 6.0, where they feel they should be given the same participation trophy as everyone else, and now bioware has taken that away they aren't liking it, they don't want to go back to the old ways, which in a sense is understandable but not from a business sense, their 6.0 progression failed them, it likely shows in their metrics that we can't see. People will get used to 7.0 or they will leave, bioware will be the first to know the actual statistics, not us.
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I think this is important. Yes, it should be emphatically stated that People who do the most difficult content be it NiM Ops or Ranked PvP deserve the rewards for that skill and commitment. Anyone who says otherwise is unreasonable.
That said, my issue with this new gearing system is that according to people who played on the PTS (I couldn't get it installed on my PC. the 326 gear is terrible. If the gear isn't going to benefit story players then things need adjusting.
I can agree here, the gear may need to be adjusted.
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So people who have 330-334 can feel special, if 326 was just 1% away from 334 they would hate that because it would mean that number is meaningless since they dont have unfair gear advantages over everyone else.
Hence why max gear ilvl should ALWAYS be attainable by everyone and through multiple ways rather than locking it away behind one specific type of content.
Man you sure do hate raiders with a passion, I'm starting to ask myself what raiders have done to you, must have been pretty horrific.
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What loop? the one that was proven to never work because casuals choose to leave a game rather than be forced to raid for decent gear?
Countless games including WoW has been desperately trying to make casuals raids yet it continuously fail because casuals often choose to leave rather than stay in a game where all the decent gear rewards are locked behind raiding.
The only people you are hooking are raidloggers which would raidlog anyway and they are a minority.
If your entire strategy is aimed at a minority of players that cant keep the game alive financially, it is a terrible design philosophy.
That is how the truth is revealed, when all the excuses are debunked you are realize this is about them having access to the best gear and everyone having inferior gear thus feeling special due to that fact.
Obviously nobody can admit that, even consciously for a decent person so they have to invent ways to justify this feeling without openly saying the reason, even to themselves, which is why we had so many flimsy and easy to debunk excuses about them deserving the best gear and how everyone else doesnt and how this is totally not about them.
The truth is when someone says they dont like that others get to have the same gear rating as them, there's an issue here because they care a lot about what others have, and the only reason to care is because it destroys their feeling of being special.
Putting your fingers in your ears and screaming LA-LA-LA doesn't mean you're right. I have already addressed his concerns repeatedly, and have been given no counter to them. Asking the same questions over and over again doesn't mean you're right.
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Stop moving the goalposts Sareth.
1) You DON'T need the best gear to clear NiM raids.
2) You DON'T spend the most time in your activity, that would be crafters or PvPers.
3) You DON'T spend the most money, that would be crafters. (By a WIDE margin)
4) You DON'T participate in the "most difficult" activity, that would be PvPers.
So tell me again why raiders "deserve" the best gear?
I already addressed every single one of those, i'm not moving goal post lol.
1) Nobody needs it, its a reward for completing challenging content that helps with challenging content. It is a crucial part of progression and invites others to attempt it.
2) Time spent doing menial stuff isn't the same as time spent busting your bum. Already addressed ranked pvp getting the best rewards.
3) Are you actually a crafter? I am.. I make 4X the amount through crafting than I spend on it, you're doing something wrong.
4) pvp is not the most challenging, you can literally just get points for queueing up and playing half-booty, it takes what 15 mins you got 50/50~ chance of winning or losing and you queue up for another one. You get tokens just for playing. Same can't be said about nim ops. it requires much more time, takes hours to complete instead of minutes, it requires a bigger team and people making their schedules meet. It requires more coordination and usually comms. Solo queue ranked requires none of this, and not near as much effort. And like I've said I've already addressed all these questions, ranked players do in fact get the best rewards out of the whole game. You keep repeating stuff that I've already countered, please go back and read what I said.
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Technically raiders don't need BIS gear either, as raids can be cleared without it.
correct, neither do you. It's a reward for completing one of the most challenging aspects of the game. and invites more people to play another aspect of their game that they (bioware) put countless hours of work into and funds into. Again please note that I havent raided in 3 years and do not plan to. I still feel like they should have proper reward for their efforts tho.
It's like this people, you don't have to do it, you just won't get the reward, it's only meant for people who complete the raid, and you just need to take a deep breath in and accept that. before you say pvp.. well ranked pvp has the best rewards this game has to offer already, the coolest, most unique gear/flairs/titles/decs/mounts in the game nobody else can get.
You still can play the game the way you want to, but you won't be able to get the best of the best unless you are ready to earn it, and isn't that so sweet? image how many more players will now be interested in raids and other parts of the game because there wasn't much incentive to do those things with 6.0. You see the developers have a plan and they will be the first to know if it doesn't work.. not this forum.
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In 6.0 there's progression - you don't have to do anything in particular but you do have to do a lot to get 306 gear with your choice of sets, tacticals, augments and amplifiers. No one pushes one button and goes from 270 to 306.
In the current 7.0 there's no special progression. You do one particular raid or you get 326/330 non-moddable gear. People that do other things "don't need better gear"? That's just BS. Every activity has challenges that can be solved faster and smoother with better gear. Those willing to put time and effort into getting it should be able to.
Who gets the Limitless achievement by "loading up the game"? Your attitude is exactly why MMOs and MMO'ers have a very bad reputation and those that think like you deserve it.
"who gets the limitless acheivement for loading up the game?".. exactly my point, that was earned, you shouldn't just get rewarded everything for just loading up the game and doing a few heroics. What's my attitude? what didn't you like about what I said. I explained how games are developed and why bioware went back on their idea for 6.0, it's obvious the progression wasn't where it needed to be. You will be fine without that "better gear" my companion can run most of the content in this game by itself lol. YOU DON'T NEED THE BIS GEAR, its not bs..its fact..you want it, but you don't need it for any reason at all (besides maybe helping a tiny bit more for people with disabilities).. Stop getting mad at me for just speaking the truth and explaining some reasons as to why bioware are going back to and evolving old progression systems.
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How wrong! I'm paying my subscription fee to have fun and relax. The moment it becomes anything comparable to work I'll stop paying subscription - when I work I expect to be paid for it, not to pay for being able to work.
you didnt seem to understand what I said, try again. Progression is the staple of most mmo's. I'm not talking about work (job) that was an analogy. I'm talking about work as in effort, challenge, time, etc. Playing video games you think you should just get all the acheivements, gear, rewards right when you load up the game, no those things are earned and there is a progression system to those things to keep you playing and interested in the game. Game development 101. What you're basically saying is that you should get the same reward as someone who puts more effort, time, resources in the game and that is truly entitlement at its finest.
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There is nothing to be argued here, pvp is factually far harder than any scripted and predictable PVE encounter.
Yet as I have explained in the previous post, raiders have been receiving special treatment in many mmorpgs for years so they now feel entitled to having the best rewards and gear at the expense of everyone else even though they clearly arent pvping so they arent doing the hardest difficulty content.
Hence why the raiding community in mmorpgs gets outraged everytime PVP gets the best gear, even when it was not intentional by the devs.
These years of mmorpgs treating them as somekind of special group has lead to this entitlement and belief they are ultra skilled and deserving of the best gear while everyone else is inferior and shouldnt have the same gear as them.
didn't read anything I wrote did ya? The entitlement is all on you my man, you think you deserve to be given same things that don't require the same amount of effort. That is not how life works. You don't start working at mcdonald's for a week as 17 y/o then ask to be paid as much as the manager that has the harder job/more skills/ more time invested. If you don't understand these principals then I don't know what else to say, you will probably just ignore this too.
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PvPers (not me) have entered the room.
"You were saying?"
You think raiding is the hardest? I'd say PvP is significantly harder, as the enemies aren't scripted. Maybe I'm crazy like that.
Oh, is it time invested?
I guarantee I've put more time (and $$) into crafting than you or any raider doing NiM ops the past month. GUARANTEE.
pvp is fine because of its gear level limit, nim ops gear won't do you any good. And also, Ranked PVP get the best rewards this game has to offer, and have for a very long time now.. Which does make me a bit jelly because I don't do ranked pvp because how toxic it is, but I accept that I won't get those freaking cool rewards because I won't accept the challenge it takes to earn them.. I don't expect to be given them, but I think it would be cool if regs had some kind of coolish rewards too, but doesn't have to be as good as ranked rewards.
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If I may respectfully disagree with this one part. (I am not a raider hater) As someone with Cerebral Palsy I found having 300+ gear to be a wonderful experience. If my fingers tightened up, or I hit a wrong key, I could take the time to rest my hands and regroup. I do not speak for all disabled people or even all people with Cerebral Palsy as no two cases are ever the same. But that gear made my physical experience better, and with the new system I feel gutted.
I know about you man, you are an outlier, and collateral damage. I'd gladly sacrifice a sense of meaningful progression again and unsub again, if it meant you can play.
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Au contraire, raiders have been spoiled because many mmorpgs have followed the outdated design philosophy of treating them as some form of special group that deserves more than everyone else while in reality, raiders arent even doing the hardest content because ranked pvp will always be harder than any scripted predictable boss.
Raiders have been spoiled by mmorpgs that treat casuals as fourth class citizens and give them inferior rewards just so raiders get to feel special. To the point that right now you refuse to acknowledge that what you are asking, is literally to be treated special at the expense of everyone else.
You cannot even see how selfish and unfair what you demand is because you ve been taught that is normal even though everyone else who doesnt get to be treated as special can see how unjust and wrong the very design philosophy is.
The harder you work for something, the more/better your rewards are. It's basic life principals. It's literally the definition of progression
, noun
the process of developing or moving gradually towards a more advanced state.
"the normal progression from junior to senior status"
"Oh yay I did this really challenging content and I got the same gear/reward this new player does that hasn't done anything outside of story mode, oh and to top it off he doesn't even make use of that gear!". 6.0 in a nutshell
The whole you thinking they think raiders are superior to everyone else is all in your head, raiders are just the last form of progression, it's literally the goal , the hook, the line, the sinker, it's the staple in 90% of every video game ever made (progression). Pvp, Raiding, are the end game. They are the final form of what your character strives to be, they are why you need that gear and that sense of reward. If you don't understand that, then ok.
Like I said its YOU that wants/thinks you should be handed everything that everyone else gets without participating or challenging yourself. Thats YOU, thats society right now, and IMO it's wrong... its unrewarding, uninspiring, and teaches people not to shrive to become something more.
I'm not being unfair to anyone, like I said, I don't raid anymore.
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No you arent, you either do OPS or you dont get to have max gear rating gear or moddable gear.
It is quite literally the opposite of "get gear you want playing anything you want" because the system treats everyone else as second class citizens while only raiders get to have good gear.
And you dont need max rating gear for raid either, you just want it so you can feel special while hurting everyone else's gear progression.
Hopefully this gear experiment crushes and burns and we return to something similar to 6.0 with just slower progression that is FAIR and doesnt treat certain groups as special.
you don't need either, you can mix and match gear to do the content you like, and get the stats you like within 1-5%. I don't raid so no I don't need the highest level gear, they need it to help carry people through really challenging scenarios besides letting you companion heal you as you blast down your enemies in 3 shots lul. You DO NOT need that armor and you know you don't, you just want it because now society expects to be handed everything everyone else can easily get like a participation trophy and swtor has spoiled you in that sense.
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6.0 gearing was poo poo, rng based, countless items like a minigame you have your inventory full clustered with junk you have no need for. Got tiresome seeing all that pointless junk when you hit 306 and have to micromanage your inventory. No proper feeling of progression, no feeling of being rewarded for harder more challenging content. No need to do anything but stay in your little bubble and safe space, no need to explore and play different types of things they have created for us to use, yeah it may make you uncomfortable at first but you will meet some really cool people and do some really cool things you might have not done otherwise when 7.0 temps you to venture even further.
7.0 Gearing is much better. You can still get the gear you want playing anything you want, nothing is stopping you from mix and matching gear from different objectives. No more RNG, get what YOU want. More feeling of proper progression and earning better gear for harder content investment. If you don't want to raid you don't have to at all, that gear won't be needed for the content you are doing and neither in pvp. Mix and matching will get the stats you want you don't need moddable gear unless you want that extra .5% dps, boo hoo.
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I'm re-Downloading on Steam now, my computer tells me it will take a loooong time, but that's because my Internet connection is the worst in existence!
it will be worth it. I have 1 gig download, and sometimes it took an 30mins- hour+ to patch on launcher it takes less than 1-2 minute to patch on steam. So in the long run it should save you some time.
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Yeah but how many of us who played for a long time actually use steam? Never really even cared about it cuz I already have the launcher installed.
So i am guessing most of those players were new, steam players that show the game available advertised or people who havent played for a long time that show the AD.
And like any new toy/xpac/launch many people stop playing after the first few months, if we are to assume most of those players are new, the fact that they retained half is huge, considering many mmorpgs like WoW had almost 10m sales in Shadowlands yet people are guessing the pop is around a million now? That is quite an enormous loss, 70-90% beats 50% bigtime.
So if we are to assume a decent amount of new players stayed after the steam launch it would be a success, as long as they are new players.
Though now a good question to ask is what is the average % of the playerbase that leaves a few months after an mmorpg/xpac is launched, i am sure there should be a few big mmorpgs that have numbers public or something
yup you may consider losing 69% of the player base good retention from a certain point of view.
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Yeah but how many of us who played for a long time actually use steam? Never really even cared about it cuz I already have the launcher installed.
So i am guessing most of those players were new, steam players that show the game available advertised or people who havent played for a long time that show the AD.
And like any new toy/xpac/launch many people stop playing after the first few months, if we are to assume most of those players are new, the fact that they retained half is huge, considering many mmorpgs like WoW had almost 10m sales in Shadowlands yet people are guessing the pop is around a million now? That is quite an enormous loss, 70-90% beats 50% bigtime.
So if we are to assume a decent amount of new players stayed after the steam launch it would be a success, as long as they are new players.
Though now a good question to ask is what is the average % of the playerbase that leaves a few months after an mmorpg/xpac is launched, i am sure there should be a few big mmorpgs that have numbers public or something
I only have steam numbers to compare, therefore I am only comparing steam numbers not overall numbers. That being said I moved to steam and a lot of people have because of the fact that patching through steam is light years faster than the launcher.
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i've managed to squelch one person my whole swtor career, if you get squelched you have done something very wrong. I literally watched someone troll fleet for 8 hours and not get squelched lol
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That pretty much happens in all mmorpgs including WoW, like WoW got record sales when their xpac launched and after a while the majority of those people left, for mmorpg success what matters imo is player retention after the first few months, how people still stay after most of the content has been consumed, that would be successful design due to great replayability.
Real success I mean, cuz if we go financially WoW must be a great game but the reality is the WoW token has been a goldmine for blizzard since they get to sell gold for real money and then players buy gear boosts with that gold.
Profitable=/=successful
hmm interesting i really don't remember that far back.
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here you can even see with the swtor relaunch on steam and 6.0 they lost more than half their playerbase in a couple months.
October 2020 6,210.1 -1,331.2 -17.65% 10,331
September 2020 7,541.3 -2,980.1 -28.32% 11,800
August 2020 10,521.4 -7,928.3 -42.97% 21,283
July 2020 18,449.7 - - 27,416
You might can even say 6.0 was or wasn't very good with retention.
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Source please. Also, what is the definition of "active player" ? As in purchased the game? Made an account at one time?
NW has a different sub plan than WoW, SWTOR and others. Steam charts show NW"s demise - from 1 million players on concurrently to under 100K, in less than two MONTHS.
I'm pretty sure even SWTOR has 100k paying subs.
That is not really a demise, that is normal and has been with every mmo besides wow. After the first week of launch there will almost always been a huge dip in playerbase.
New World has 130K players playing right now according to steam charts.
OSRS has 1473 players -current playing - steam charts
Everquest has 400 players - current playing - steam charts
UO at 3800 - Daily -MMOpopulation
I'm not making any of this up. The game you say is dead has a significant amount more players that all those mmo's you listed put together. And so does Swtor, thats what I'm saying yalls definition of dying is an ever changing thing. All mmo's are destined to lose their original playerbase numbers. It's just the nature of the beast.
9 days left till 7.0
I'm feeling 7.0 is the end
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by SaerethDL
LOL why wouldn't new players get to pick their primary? They literally need to create their initial character, just like you did. You realize you picked your primary too right?
Hopefully you guys are maining the class that you like to play the most... Right...?