Do you think story is really what MMO players want?

[Kaercha]

Thank you for summing up the bulk of the complaints in a few short points. Now people can pick whatever suits their taste and just copy/paste from your template! <3

 

I try to help where I can.

[PhiAndrew]

All I want to say is that after playing this game.. I never want to play an MMO without a story again. This game has engrossed me so much that WoW seems plain boring. I can do the same stuff basically but the storyline breaks up the repetiveness of other MMOs. So for me... I will keep the story and have a blast playing through it.

[danielxia]

You can add in game play elements, you can add in end game content, you can fix responsive play times, you can fix UI issues, you can try to fix PVP.

 

But you can't fix a bad storyline / badly told story / crappy RPG elements after launch.

 

I played WoW for years but i couldn't bear to level up a 3rd character to max as I knew i'd be experiencing the same 'story' all over again, just casting different spells. (Okay i lied, i didn't even level up two full characters since my 2nd was a DK starting from lvl 55).

 

Agreed. Stories don't drive MMOs. But getting the story right at first, then fixing the game play issues (which i HOPE will be done), is a good way to do an MMO.

[Grammarye]

MMO players are a wide & disparate group. If you mean WoW raid players, possibly not, but that is hardly the entire market segment. I am getting a little bored of people extrapolating their own personal views into 'the entire universe shares my opinion'.

This is what I have been talking about..

 

This is an MMO story is important to only a small group of players, people want action and things to be doing with their character.

So in other words, you're posting and cherry-picking the responses until you get the one that agrees with you, and calling anyone else a small group of players.

 

Inherent bias much?

[AkilZodiac]

I like TOR as is because of the story.

 

If you sub to TOR and hate story, you wasted your money. /end

[Idali]

Players do want a story, one that they can relate to, be engaged by it and one that doesn't feels forced. Their own story.

 

The way Bioware went to do it, is in my opinion wrong, since in the end basically every single character in a class has the same story, the same end result, the same quest lines. You are not playing your own story, you are playing the story of the character Bioware created for you.

Its defacto a single player setup and experience. Another problem with the choosen format is that after the personal story is done untill an expansion comes out. You have no more story at all, which is pretty bad for a story driven game. Plus you are already in the higher ups when you are finished.

there is hardly any more possibility to progress and top that further.

You can actually win this MMO.

 

What would have been better IMO is that let the players be and play want they want and create a world story with little and big events in which the players can take place and make their own characters and story up from that. Progress the world story with time. Have a battle here, an invasion there. mystery to solve over there and so on.

 

For now the single player structure works. But it is limited in the longevity since there is only so much you can do before running out of story. A more open approach would have been better in the long run.

[ArmchairMagpie]

A story in a RPG whether it has MMO prefixed to it or not does matter to me. I don't care whether RIFT did not have one, the story in RIFT bored me. If the story doesn't captivate me then I usually do not feel like logging in alot.

 

The downside of having a story is that at one point - though not always immediately - it matters little to me after having basically played most story line branches. At that point the MMO part kicks in, if it doesn't offer me alot more gameplay consistency and variety then I am usually bored and quit. I basically am no real PVPer, I am pretty bad at offensive PVP and if I have to I am playing a healer/defensive PVPer. I care alot more for PVE, so far at least the heroics have given me a reminiscence of what WoW once was in term of difficulty. I missed it that much.

 

Again, back to the story issue. I find story plays a decisive role for me, after all you want to have your character being part of a story. Otherwise it would be akin to playing barbie doll dressing game online. It is however important to find the correct level of emphasis of story when compared to the game's gameplay depths.

Edited January 2, 2012 by ArmchairMagpie

[Jieljak]

Because for many years (heck even during classic) people wanted to play Pandarians.

 

Maybe It was meaningful when most of players played Warcraft 3 and drunk Panda was a populer hero. But WoW grew too much, and most of his players did'nt play Warcraft 3 atm, so it is very risky decision. My friends child is 10 years old, sometimes he played his father's mage with me at the arena (And he did quite good for his age). He saw the Pandarian trailer and said "How childish and stupid, i won't play that."

 

Problem with Panda is. It's for children, but not even for ages 9-12. It's for children for age group 4-7. If you think otherwise you just fool yourself.

[Kaercha]

Maybe It was meaningful when most of players played Warcraft 3 and drunk Panda was a populer hero. But WoW grew too much, and most of his players did'nt play Warcraft 3 atm, so it is very risky decision. My friends child is 10 years old, sometimes he played his father's mage with me at the arena (And he did quite good for his age). He saw the Pandarian trailer and said "How childish and stupid, i won't play that."

 

Problem with Panda is. It's for children, but not even for ages 9-12. It's for children for age group 4-7. If you think otherwise you just fool yourself.

 

 

I think that scenario is more like, he's 10 years old, and he doesn't understand/know/hasn't been exposed to the panderen lore. Also, he's 10 years old. He wants to seem more grown up. Just like bullies who pick on people so that they feel better mainly because of the their insecurities, children resent childish things to seem more grown up. The C.S. Lewis quote get's thrown around a lot, I'm sure you've seen it.

 

What you are, sir, is a bully. Just you knock the pandas instead of giving people wedgies. I suppose on second though, that is probably nicer, but the point is the same, you must tear it down to feel better about yourself.

 

And if it counts, (ya, ya, internet) I'm 27, wife + kids, ex military. I've always wanted to play Monks (I've started at least 2 dozen 'Monk Class Idea' threads in the suggestion forums), and I often played Panderen in the PnP. I'm certainly not fooling myself. I think a more on target statement would be that they are targeting Warcraft fans, not these late coming bandwagoneers.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Kaercha

[a_Stalker]

I was going to post without reading your entire post but I thought, "I should give this guy a chance." After all I didn't want to be a contradictory fanboy that people think defend the game just because he loves BioWare or Star Wars. On to the question: Do you think story is really what MMO players want?

 

I believe it deserves a yes AND no answer because, you know, life isn't all black and white.

 

Immediately you mention reading books and I can honestly say I don't enjoy reading books. The idea is appealing. Sitting down on a quiet afternoon just relaxing, taking it easy and enjoying a good book. When it comes to actually reading a book it's not fun for me. However, I enjoy playing BioWare games. I know that I can't do anything I want because BioWare doesn't make sandbox games but being able to enjoy a story in a format (interactive-video game) I can tolerate gives me the opportunity to experience the same sensations a book reader does.

 

Recently I was visiting my sister and she LOVES books. At one point she actually said that she has a hard time playing all her unplayed games because she has so many books and she gets "distracted". To me that's just plain crazy!

 

You know what else is also just plain crazy in my opinion? People that are level cap before the first week of an MMO launch. Even the first month. I'm very slow when it comes to MMOs but I really enjoy playing them. Not that I'm a terrible player I just get burned out pumping out quest after quest because, and I'm sure everyone would agree, it IS boring.

 

I made level 62 in WoW but that wasn't until level cap was 75 or 80. After I capped one character in LOTRO I quit playing. SWG I believe I mastered a few things and I was working on GM in UO before that went belly-up. Now that you know a little bit about my game history, my point is that rarely finish a game or cap in an MMO. I've only played 3 story-based BioWare games and I've finished 2 of them. Didn't finish Mass Effect because the 360 I was using got stolen. I'm pretty sure I'll finish some class stories and cap multiple characters in this game. It'll take time but I'm positive it will happen.

 

Some people won't even pay attention to the story aspect of this game but it will be what makes the sea of never-ending quests possible for people like me. One thing I've noticed is that BioWare is bringing in more than just MMO players into the game. Some people only play it because it's Star Wars and those people like this game. To get a better idea of how long this game will last I think you should look further than your typical MMO gamer. If you treat the story aspect in this game like you would a "Choose-your-own-adventure" book, then the story becomes a lot more enjoyable and voice actors bring it to life. Some plots are very thin and not believable I'll admit, but I'm glad those are usually the side-quests.

 

I also doubt BioWare is trying to beat WoW. Plenty of people are already angry with WoW because of the mechanics they are soon implementing. All you're really doing is comparing fantasy against science fiction. They both have their pros and cons. Some will prefer one ovder the other, some don't like either while the rest will accept both. If anything SWTOR will supersede WoW and not be the WoW-killer. There is a difference. That's only if SWTOR improves and WoW doesn't. At this point, that is all that's left.

 

WoW had a good run and I don't believe any game should last forever. Our consoles are constantly changing and computers are always improving. Every game will die at some point and it's rare that any make a comeback.

 

So there is my short-essay response to your question. I can elaborate more on why but most of the people aren't going to read the response as it is.

 

I fully agree that too much questing on one sitting will burn you out. I also find it incredible that people reach 50 so quickly

 

Once again why pay monthly subscription for a game that you play less often and in your words takes you until the next expansion to reach the previous expansion's top level? It's your money and your choice - but you are paying for an MMO when in fact you are playing a single player game with some co-op here and there (you have not mentioned anything about other players so I can only assume).

 

Players who stay on MMOs stay for the community - either it is PvP, or end game raiding (which means you have a guild and typically raid 3 times a week for 3-4 hours each time) and in some other cases for more social MMOs like SWG used to be for hooking up with a bunch of guys to do crafting, player cities and so on.

 

A player alone has to decide whether SWTOR is worth paying monthly subscription for or whether he is paying for a single player game with some co-op like COD which is free.

[Solairous]

yes, the story is best part of this RPGmmo. I think people forget what RPG stands for.

[a_Stalker]

The last line sums up the majority of posts I have been reading, I am getting ever so tired of reading about a game that is not this game around here.

 

You realise that the fist thing that struck me about this game, is how much WOW-like it is. There may be like two keys that do not match WOW exactly (K for talents instead of N). I do not even know I am not playing WOW. Look at the talents system, look at abilities triggering off critical strikes, mob abilities interruptible or not, taunt ability that behaves liek in WOW, WOW Warrior type stances on my Jedi Consular, I mean the list is endless I can't be asked mentioning it all. This is like WOW with different colours.

 

Had they not completely and utterly broken the game with those idiotic chopped up mini- planets and with the single track quest line, it would have been a very worthy WOW competitor.

 

I cannot talk about end game content yet as I am still level 22.

[Darth_Beans]

People want all games to be...World of Warcraft

[markdienekes]

The chase the raids for better gear constantly, gear that will just be obsolete in the next expansion really started to break me down. There is good story in Warcraft - but I doubt many people actually read the quests text (especially considering how a few paragraphs on forums appear to be to tldr). The story in SWTOR is good, so I'll be happy to extend my character's story - rather than just raiding - when expansions come out. The thing with WoW for most people appears to be leveling up for the sake of raiding, not story. Edited January 2, 2012 by markdienekes

[amelica]

Story matters alot in rpgmmo ofcourse ,otherwise you are playing a wrong game.

[Umbral]

Yes it's important to some people, but it will not carry an mmo

This... a thousand times this.

 

Nothing trumps gameplay and desired functions. Not story, not IP the game is based on, and most certainly not how vehemently a game's fanbois attack criticisms and how quickly CRs close threads and treat their game's customers like crap.

 

 

It's unbelievable that they threw the amount of money at this game that they did and didn't do their homework by studying the failures of the last 6 or 7 years.

[Merex]

A lot of people who play WoW would rather spend the rest of their free time playing Modern Warfare 3 instead of Skyrim. So, to answer your thread. **** no. (Though I'm glad I don't fall into this category).

[Mahulena]

I can't speak on behalf of others.

 

Speaking of myself, I am one of those for whom the story-telling is super important in any RPG. I love immersive RPGs with rich story-telling - coming from Pen&Paper RPG background, having enjoyed Wizardry VII, Lands of Lore, but also The Witcher and Mass Effect, how could I be possibly different? I even started playing WoW because of RP and storytelling. Therefore I am also one of those who enjoys playing this game tremendously.

 

Friend of mine who is into PvP and first-person shooters did not even bother buying or trying this game. He knew he would be eventually very disappointed.

 

So I guess it depends on what gamers are we talking about. I think it's been quite obvious for some time that this game is not for everyone and that not every MMO player would like it. It's not necessarily a bad thing, though.

[DarkZenith]

KotOR with MMO features? Hell yes! Edited January 2, 2012 by DarkZenith

[will-sparrowWill]

Before this game came out nobody gave a **** about story or quest lore when they were in an MMO (only the hardcore fans or people who enjoy the story telling aspect), I'd say 80-90% of people who play mmos never read the quest text or care why they need to kill 10 boars or what ever else the quest calls for.

 

Bioware took a huge step in thinking that an MMO needs a strong story line and interesting quests. Only time will tell if they made the right call, but one thing they didn't make the right call on was the way this game is played. This game should NOT be called an MMO.

 

MMO to me means playing in a huge world with hundreds or thousands of other players at the same time. Not being confined to an INSTANCED area with 200 people tops running around the same planet you are. hamster in a cage is a perfect explanation of what this game feels like. There is no real freedom in this game. Everyone plays along a set path. Sure you can veer off and do something else for awhile, but either way you have to do your main storyline. The same storyline everyone else in the game gets which makes the whole CREATE YOUR OWN STORY! ********. That's why story and questing isn't the main focus of most MMO's. Functionality and things to do are. that is what this game lacks.

 

Nar Shaddaa is a great example of a great delusion this game plays. You have this grand city that would make any starwars fan giddy in the hopes of exploring this amazing moon, but exploration doesn't exist in this game. All those lights and buildings you see are nothing more than a backdrop. You cannot go there or do anything interesting. Hell there are casinos everywhere on Nar Shaddaa, heres a cool simple idea... How about making some of those slot machines and card tables useable? Small simple things help add depth to a world where there is none. Bioware doesn't understand the basics of how to make an MMO world come alive. And that's pretty sad.

 

This game isn't an MMO, its Kotor3 with co-op online play.

[SnoopyDoo]

Story isn't important, which is why BW games like NWN, ME, DA:O all flopped.

 

Oh wait- nope, they didn't, they did well, and it absolutely wasn't for gameplay. You want your twitchfest with nothing but action, you have CoD, and you want your story free grindfest where the only plots are lifted almost line for line from other popular fantasy sources, you have WoW.

 

 

For the millions who clearly loved BW games enough to buy their products year after year though... no, we've been waiting for an mmo with story for a long time- you want your WoW carbon copy? Aion, Rift, LotRO, etc... are all available. I'm glad they made questing something enjoyable for the first time in mmos... and if you don't like story, well, perhaps this isn't the right game for you, but, someone who hates shooters would probably find CoD to be the wrong game for them too. Amazing how that works.

 

Hmm I wouldn't use COD as an example since that is an FPS not an MMO.

 

I would also point out that if you strip away the layers of cut scenes and story this game is really quite similar to WoW.

[SnoopyDoo]

This... a thousand times this.

 

Nothing trumps gameplay and desired functions. Not story, not IP the game is based on, and most certainly not how vehemently a game's fanbois attack criticisms and how quickly CRs close threads and treat their game's customers like crap.

 

 

It's unbelievable that they threw the amount of money at this game that they did and didn't do their homework by studying the failures of the last 6 or 7 years.

 

This is really the kind of answer I wanted to get from making this thread

 

It seems foolish of BioWare to base an MMO on story when really all MMO players want is improvements on existing features. This game hasn't changed anything about MMOs to make it stand above its competitors in that area. Most people who say they LOVE this game are saying it because of the story, but these people will just leave once they have completed the bulk of content. The game will work in the single player sense but I see it just failing as an MMO.

[SnoopyDoo]

MMO players are a wide & disparate group. If you mean WoW raid players, possibly not, but that is hardly the entire market segment. I am getting a little bored of people extrapolating their own personal views into 'the entire universe shares my opinion'.

 

So in other words, you're posting and cherry-picking the responses until you get the one that agrees with you, and calling anyone else a small group of players.

 

Inherent bias much?

 

The name of the thread is a rhetorical question...

 

Obviously I'm going to say I agree with someone who supports the original post.

 

Also I have not said at all that 'the entire universe shares my opinion'. I have said that being someone who has played MMOs for many many years I have listened to many people's views of popular games like WoW and what they want in an MMO. I would think before accusing someone of being dogmatic as this thread is posing a rather simple question. Do you think the concept of the game is a good concept?

 

I would have to say the reason for you post is that you are merely being defensive of the game. Understandable, but please don't be provocative when you haven't really contributed to the discussion.

[Myrmedus]

Story isn't important, which is why BW games like NWN, ME, DA:O all flopped.

 

Oh wait- nope, they didn't, they did well, and it absolutely wasn't for gameplay. You want your twitchfest with nothing but action, you have CoD, and you want your story free grindfest where the only plots are lifted almost line for line from other popular fantasy sources, you have WoW.

 

 

For the millions who clearly loved BW games enough to buy their products year after year though... no, we've been waiting for an mmo with story for a long time- you want your WoW carbon copy? Aion, Rift, LotRO, etc... are all available. I'm glad they made questing something enjoyable for the first time in mmos... and if you don't like story, well, perhaps this isn't the right game for you, but, someone who hates shooters would probably find CoD to be the wrong game for them too. Amazing how that works.

 

Great post.

[SnoopyDoo]

That sounds like WoW and a few F2P games to me. = boring

 

To me this game is like a classic 'chose your adventure' book. I want to reread it. I want to see what happens if I make that other choice. I love the VO because it adds something wonderful to it, much like Dragon Age or even Elder Scrolls games. So maybe that makes me 'That Nerd'. Great. I support BW 100% on this. I think they will only improve and I sincerely hope that they won't 'dumb down' their creation just to make a few ADD kiddos happy.

 

So you are willing to pay a sub for that?