Dodia Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 And you forget .. that isn't 11million players .. it's 11 million subscriptions. A LARGE part of those are alt accounts from single players. . Any proof of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Its obviously you've made up your mind on this subject and further arguing with you seems pointless. So unless I see something different from you than you repeating the same thing over and over then this will be my last reply. You're correct it is a MMO. The end game content, as with every MMO is dungeons, raids, daily quests, and occasionally PVP. Things relating to those things need to be released on a consistent basis. Now with those things, you can include story elements, side adventures for the players to do that engage their characters somewhat. but don't create new story arcs so to speak, or that start ramping things up to the next novel. They in no way shape or for need to or should just tack more story arcs onto things, as inevitably they will never be used after an expansion raises the level cap. Note how other MMO's don't just keep adding quests... If the sole reason they're playing is to play KOTOR 3. Then yes I agree with you, they will probably unsubscribe. If thats not the sole reason...they they probably won't unsubscribe due to 'omg I finished the story'. They may unsubscribe for other reasons...but thats not the issue here. They're certainly not going to get their story fix from another MMO thats for sure though. Single player games sure. But an MMO no... You are saying that extra RPG elements are being added by this game? That this game adds a new activity for you to do with your character at max level? Being short stories or little side plots? I fail to see how that will be enough to keep players actively involved in the game. And again the general view of even the most basic end game content in this game is that it is average at best. And other MMOs do not add quests because the activity of doing quests is generally considered boring. Adding in new quests in this game as a form of end game content will require new voice acting and will still be just the same as levelling. Kill X of Y. This is not sustainable as an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiussat Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (My main point out of all of this is that I don't think adding Story as a new pillar of the MMO is a smart move when trying to beat WoW in the MMO market) I, for one, don't give two shizzles about WoW or whatever it is they are doing. You WoW fanatics are funny. You complain when a game "copies" WoW and you complain when a game is not an exact WoW clone. Which do you want? Bottom line: this game is not WoW. It was not developed to be WoW. Bioware had a vision of what they wanted, and it was not a traditional boring azz grinding MMO. They made this clear prior to the game's release. What you want is another WoW with boring azz questing and no immersion whatsoever. All you wanna do is grind to 50 ASAP and sit around "LFG" all day. That is not what a lot of us want. You want an MMO without the RPG. Some of us want the RPG aspect. Some of us want to enjoy a game and not simply stroke our e-peens by downing some abstract raid boss that has no bearing on the game whatsoever. Here's my advice: go back to WoW. Blizzard still releases new content so you "hardcore raiders" should never get bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 I, for one, don't give two shizzles about WoW or whatever it is they are doing. You WoW fanatics are funny. You complain when a game "copies" WoW and you complain when a game is not an exact WoW clone. Which do you want? Bottom line: this game is not WoW. It was not developed to be WoW. Bioware had a vision of what they wanted, and it was not a traditional boring azz grinding MMO. They made this clear prior to the game's release. What you want is another WoW with boring azz questing and no immersion whatsoever. All you wanna do is grind to 50 ASAP and sit around "LFG" all day. That is not what a lot of us want. You want an MMO without the RPG. Some of us want the RPG aspect. Some of us want to enjoy a game and not simply stroke our e-peens by downing some abstract raid boss that has no bearing on the game whatsoever. Here's my advice: go back to WoW. Blizzard still releases new content so you "hardcore raiders" should never get bored. Firstly this thread is not saying TOR should be more like WoW. Secondly what this thread is actually saying is that if TOR wants to be really successful it needs to be able to compete with WoW. Finally if you strip away the cut scenes this game is VERY similar to WoW. And please don't rant on about stuff after you've clearly only read the first few lines of the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossalinie Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I like lots of things about this game but I want to see it made more of an MMO, that's not changing it's story side. This game can be story driven if it wants, but why not offer features for MMO players as well? If it is their goals to focus on the Story part of this game, then so be it. Like all genres out there, there are variations other than skin/theme changes. MMORPG is the only genre that gets a frown face when it attempts to do the same and change the mold. It's like deadly sin for a game in this genre to attract a certain player base. The real problem is the players who act like digital plagues. These players expect every MMO that releases to 'Leapfrog' them to a higher leaf. Once they've exhausted their current platform, the next one must include everything that was in the previous while have a 'what have you done for me lately' mentality. Eventually, they will completely be impossible to please because they've reach the top of the tree in their perspective. A company can forget about trying to create a crafting-driven game or an economy-based MMORPG. People will still scream 'Where's my PVP? Where's my hardcore raids?' in those type of games. Any changes from the player's norm means to them that the company didn't live up to their potential. Edited January 2, 2012 by Bossalinie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 If it is their goals to focus on the Story part of this game, then so be it. Like all genres out there, there are variations other than skin/theme changes. MMORPG is the only genre that gets a frown face when it attempts to do the same and change the mold. It's like deadly sin for a game in this genre to attract a certain player base. The real problem is the players who act like digital plagues. These players expect every MMO that releases to 'Leapfrog' them to a higher leaf. Once they've exhausted their current platform, the next one must include everything that was in the previous while have a 'what have you done for me lately' mentality. Eventually, they will completely be impossible to please because they've reach the top of the tree in their perspective. A company can forget about trying to create a crafting-driven game or an economy-based MMORPG. People will still scream 'Where's my PVP? Where's my hardcore raids?' in those type of games. Any changes from the player's norm means to them that the company didn't live up to their potential. I would call this a sad truth. Doesn't change anything about TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshaye Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Firstly this thread is not saying TOR should be more like WoW. Secondly what this thread is actually saying is that if TOR wants to be really successful it needs to be able to compete with WoW. Finally if you strip away the cut scenes this game is VERY similar to WoW. And please don't rant on about stuff after you've clearly only read the first few lines of the OP. And for the millionth time nobody's trying to beat WoW. Bioware has made a classic MMO adding with what they do best: story. Seriously why is that concept so difficult to grasp and accept? Move on from this and maybe we'll get somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 And for the millionth time nobody's trying to beat WoW. Bioware has made a classic MMO adding with what they do best: story. Seriously why is that concept so difficult to grasp and accept? Move on from this and maybe we'll get somewhere. I think you will find they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemosobe Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Story is the most important part of any game in my opinion. I have played PLENTY of games that the gaming community has deemed "crap" simply to get a good story (my opinion). Homefront, I know way to many people that feel that game is nothing but garbage. I, myself, liked it for what-if scenario dealing in the future after Kim Jon-Il dies (which actually now has happened). I also liked Turning Point: Fall of Liberty. I agree though that that game was close to garbage, but I loved the alternate timeline that the company did and gave us a what-if scenario where Winston Churchill died while visiting New York in 1931. So, is story really what MMO players want, yes, seeing as my number one favorite MMO is Final Fantasy XI which was the very first MMO to deliver cut scenes to flush out a story inside an MMO. Edited January 2, 2012 by Kemosobe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITSAmeee Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 And for the millionth time nobody's trying to beat WoW. Bioware has made a classic MMO adding with what they do best: story. Seriously why is that concept so difficult to grasp and accept? Move on from this and maybe we'll get somewhere. I think you are missing the point. This is an MMO right? It has a subscription fee, correct? Is this "new story telling" added to a classic MMO enough to make you pay a subscription? and for how long? (and by the way, it is only new and fresh the way quests are given to you at best, and the story behind it...because I feel the leveling itself, the kill this + bonus kill more + loot + destroy is tedious, old, outfashoned, boring and no matter if you serve me **** on a plate with lobster and champaine, I'd still be eating **** on my plate. This is a personal pow obviously) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlackx Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (My main point out of all of this is that I don't think adding Story as a new pillar of the MMO is a smart move when trying to beat other MMOs in the market) Noted. I disagree. Moving on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshaye Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I think you are missing the point. This is an MMO right? It has a subscription fee, correct? Is this "new story telling" added to a classic MMO enough to make you pay a subscription? and for how long? Yes it is, for as long as they put it out or a new shiny comes along. Pretty much like any other game out there really. I'm looking forward to how this game will expand and change over time, that's the beauty of an MMO and why it's worth your sub or whatever money you put in. I've been looking for an MMO that tailors to someone like me for years, a casual player that enjoys a lively story more then anything else. Guild Wars used to be that game hands down, then came along LotrO, and AoC, finally FFXIV. But all those games were missing one or two things I wanted in an MMO. SWTOR to me has it all, I feel very satisfied here. It's too bad others do not and it's not like I don't understand the feeling but I know that the key isn't in trying to change what this game is supposed to be but try to figure out what it is you're really looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daroax Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 It is what I really really want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Noted. I disagree. Moving on... Don't suppose you have a reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thradar Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 tl;dr Story is what mmoRPG'ers want. MMO'ers don't care. In which case go play Farmville or MW3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterOfEnts Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Some people dig story. If Bioware can keep a steady stream of high-quality story coming then those people will remain happy. If not, the transition from story play to non-story play will likely be difficult for them to accept. Me personally? I'm not into story in my games. In general, stories are pretty poorly delivered in games. I've rarely seen games where the in-game movies were good enough to enjoy watching. I skip them like crazy. If the movie has some nice looking ladies in it then I might watch it once. But, polygon ladies don't count. Other than that, most development effort should be spent on making replayable systems. The more you can get the players to generate the content, the better! In my opinion, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSkoolFan Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 It's what got me in the door when I haven't played an MMO in years. I know I'm not alone in that. I'd say it's important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You are saying that extra RPG elements are being added by this game? That this game adds a new activity for you to do with your character at max level? Being short stories or little side plots? I fail to see how that will be enough to keep players actively involved in the game. And again the general view of even the most basic end game content in this game is that it is average at best. And other MMOs do not add quests because the activity of doing quests is generally considered boring. Adding in new quests in this game as a form of end game content will require new voice acting and will still be just the same as levelling. Kill X of Y. This is not sustainable as an MMO.TOR is not a power leveling, loot & scoot, boss farming, instant gratification power trip for power tripping players. If reading books bores you then this game will too. Something to be said for literacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 tl;dr Story is what mmoRPG'ers want. MMO'ers don't care. In which case go play Farmville or MW3. Again with the COD... COD is not an MMO. Please don't insult my intelligence by telling me to go and play it simply because I value gameplay higher than story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSkoolFan Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I think you will find they are. By arguing with her on this point, you seem to be showing you think "beating WoW (out the box no less) is the sole definition of success for this or any other MMO. I hope not, because if that's what you think you are terminally stupid and should not be allowed to vote or make any meaningful decisions for yourself or anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 TOR is not a power leveling, loot & scoot, boss farming, instant gratification power trip for power tripping players. If reading books bores you then this game will too. Something to be said for literacy. Doesn't sound like an MMO to me... Sounds like a single player RPG. So actually you agree with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 By arguing with her on this point, you seem to be showing you think "beating WoW (out the box no less) is the sole definition of success for this or any other MMO. I hope not, because if that's what you think you are terminally stupid and should not be allowed to vote or make any meaningful decisions for yourself or anyone else. Whoa. Simmer down with the insults you might get your comment removed... I was not suggesting that this game has to beat WoW to be deemed successful. I am saying that if BioWare had any hopes of this game becoming popular on a similar scale to WoW then they would need to compete. Please read the original post a bit more thoroughly before you insult me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylentmana Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 GW2 will also be story driven. Maybe not to the extent of SWTOR, but it has been stated that personal stories will be a major factor in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeCL Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I've played MMO's for ages. Everquest, SWG, CoH/CoV, FFXI, LotRO, WAR, WoW, CO, STO, and SWTOR is the only game to grab my attention the way it did. Its the only game that had me level my main to level cap, and then immediately start on alts to see specifically how their stories play out. Story is definitely what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Doesn't sound like an MMO to me... Sounds like a single player RPG. So actually you agree with me?MMO = mega multiplayer online. Unless one is somehow the only one one their server I believe SWTOR qualifies as quite the MMO. I can group up at will for pretty much anything the game has to offer on my server and see plenty of players doing the same. If you were expecting agreement or disagreement then I apologize. My point was simply redirecting the post toward the thread's topic, which is story - something TOR has in abundance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts