monegames Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It holds players responsible but it also builds relationships. I played WOW for nearly 6 years, I don't remember a single person I grouped up with. Why bother? Yet today I saw a agent and I realized he/she had healed my group recently. That is the big difference. One system makes an MMO into a call of duty style game. The other builds communities, so you played 4 years without LFD and you didnt remember anyone you grouped with, and 2 years with it and didnt remember anyone you grouped with. sounds like the same thing to me. you are seeing people you remember in SWTOR because there are fewer players on each server. has nothing to do with the "community destroyer called LFD". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbral Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) It holds players responsible but it also builds relationships. I played WOW for nearly 6 years, I don't remember a single person I grouped up with. Why bother? Yet today I saw a agent and I realized he/she had healed my group recently. That is the big difference. One system makes an MMO into a call of duty style game. The other builds communities, something SWTOR needs desperately. Is it a greater inconvenience to look for a group in trade? Absolutely. But if the tradeoff is WOW where I sit in my capital city all day and no one gives a %*^& about their fellow man, you can go back to WOW and farm your "epics." I joined SWTOR for the community, not so you can have faster gear.I don't want gear faster bub. I just want to see the content at a level that's appropriate for that content. To do so I have to both put on my tag, and spend sometimes hours standing in one area spamming a LFG message. That isn't playing a game. That's occupying a virtual space. I'M HERE TO PLAY A GAME. If I wanted to just take up virtual space I'd be playing Second Life. Building community? Just like the communities being built in-game now? Just drop in on any random server and go to an area where players congregate to spam their LFG messages and read what kind of community your no LFG tool is building. People constantly bickering, name calling, elitists lording it over others for asking what they call a "dumb question", players flaunting their latest drop, etc etc. If that's the kind of community you want, you can have it. I had that awful community once before in a game BEFORE it implemented a LFG tool. Edited January 4, 2012 by Umbral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Games like EQ had great communities because they had excessive down time, forced group content, large challenge, very slow pace, a lack of in game mechanics forcing social rules, etc. TOR already decided not to be that game. In TOR, like most modern MMOs, socializing is optional. Those that want to do it will. Those that don't won't. The LFD tool doesn't impact that in the slightest. In fact in WoW my guild and I used it all the time as a way to play together. Take that away and we play way fewer dungeons together. I can buy the argument that it breaks immersion by transporting you into a dungeon. But considering most of them are just in a space ship hub anyway along with the fact they have the auto group PVP zone functions that argument doesn't hold water either. The fact is they decided to make TOR a LFD type game. They just forgot the LFD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadjezZ Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Dungeon Finder?? There aren't even dungeons in this game dude .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnice Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Simply put, if they do not implement a dungeon finder this game will die a slow death. They can not live on the fact this is "Star Wars" forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monegames Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Dungeon Finder?? There aren't even dungeons in this game dude .. flashpoints = dungeons. seriously why just why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnice Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Games like EQ had great communities because they had excessive down time, forced group content, large challenge, very slow pace, a lack of in game mechanics forcing social rules, etc. EQ was 1999. This is 2012. Things change. The people who played EQ back then now have kids and work. They do not want to spam "LFG" in chat to find a group. Edited January 4, 2012 by Tnice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 EQ was 1999. This is 2012. Things change. The people who played EQ back then now have kids and work. They do not want to spam "LFG" in chat to find a group. Probably should have read more than the first sentence of that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theholyevil Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Building community? Just like the communities being built in-game now? Just drop in on any random server and go to an area where players congregate to spam their LFG messages and read what kind of community your no LFG tool is building. People constantly bickering, name calling, elitists lording it over others for asking what they call a "dumb question", players flaunting their latest drop, etc etc. If that's the kind of community you want, you can have it. I had that awful community once before in a game BEFORE it implemented a LFG tool. Wrong! you don't just go to some random server, that is YOUR server. You decides what happens to it. Don't push your bad attempts on to people, because this time you acctually have the power to do something about it. Other then WOW were you can.... what? Oh right, nothing. That guy is part of your server. If he is a jerk then his punishment comes swift. But now you find tanks you respect and healers that appreciate. That is a community. Not some random 4 people in a party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrandaa Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I did a lot of PUGs in Vanilla and BC WoW. Not a single one of those gave me any advantage for getting another group. Or long term friendships. Or a sense of community. Or an invite to a guild. It was 15-20 people (Vanilla) scrambling for loot. And once it was over, everyone went their separate ways. Yeah... community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerofive Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Games like EQ had great communities because they had excessive down time, forced group content, large challenge, very slow pace, a lack of in game mechanics forcing social rules, etc. TOR already decided not to be that game. In TOR, like most modern MMOs, socializing is optional. Those that want to do it will. Those that don't won't. The LFD tool doesn't impact that in the slightest. In fact in WoW my guild and I used it all the time as a way to play together. Take that away and we play way fewer dungeons together. I can buy the argument that it breaks immersion by transporting you into a dungeon. But considering most of them are just in a space ship hub anyway along with the fact they have the auto group PVP zone functions that argument doesn't hold water either. The fact is they decided to make TOR a LFD type game. They just forgot the LFD. This this this this this for the love of God this. I'm sick and tired of hearing people whine about how the dungeon finder breaks up server communities when they're playing games that allow you to reach the max level without even so much as breathing on another player. If they want to whine about server communities, they should whine about a lack of forced grouping and other timesinks which served as an incentive to interact with other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crogga Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I fully disagree. Destruction of community is not fun With the huge amount of sharding to the point of the world feeling dead, a dungeon finder can do nothing but help give you a sense of being in an MMO. Currently it feels like a single player game. "Community" does not exist in a game like this right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I can buy the argument that it breaks immersion by transporting you into a dungeon. I don't even buy this argument. There's nothing immersive about having to run all the way back to your speeder hub, take that speeder all the way back to your spaceport, sit in load screen to get into your ship, sit in a load screen to get to the republic fleet, run all the way to the flashpoint, sit through the load screen to enter the flashpoint and then wait ten mintues while everyone else in the group does it too. If skipping this crap breaks "immersion" then immersion is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbral Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Wrong! you don't just go to some random server, that is YOUR server. You decides what happens to it. Don't push your bad attempts on to people, because this time you acctually have the power to do something about it. Other then WOW were you can.... what? Oh right, nothing. That guy is part of your server. If he is a jerk then his punishment comes swift. But now you find tanks you respect and healers that appreciate. That is a community. Not some random 4 people in a party.You're living in a dream world. Nothing you're saying about being able to affect change in jerk's behavior has ever been a part of any mmo... ever. It's pie in the sky theory that's always been disproved under the hard cold light of reality. It's what people wished it was like, but never was, and never will be. Jerks will be jerks, always have been. There's been jerks from day one of original version UO, and nothing anyone came up with to hinder their behavior has ever worked except one thing. You know what that one thing was? A LFD tool. Not leaving these jerks a captive audience when people are having to spend inordinate amounts of time in one area desperately looking for a group. Not leaving these jerks with a never ending fresh crop of players coming into these areas and getting so desperate after spamming their lfg message that they'll group with anyone just to be able to experience the content. What your condemning is the very cure needed for what ails you. GG there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryoal Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 THis post should be titled: Global LFG CHannel Needed Badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 You said it like it was successful because of the dungeon finder. If I said that, feel free to quote me. You can't, because I didn't. Rift might have reached 1 million users while running on new game fumes but even that is questionable. According to this article, the 1 million number was only the number of pre-launch accounts. That's not the number of subscriptions, nor even the number of people that bought the game. 360k Eve Users though is nothing to scoff at and is a very decent number if you ignore the amazing numbers that WoW pulls, Eve is probably one of the most successful games in a long time. No, Rift had over 1 million subscribers. It might still have significantly more than that; the Rift forums have well over 3million accounts, and I honestly hope for humanity's sake that there aren't 2 million trolls around. "Gamasutra has an article up today revealing our the first concrete subscriber numbers for Trion Worlds’ RIFT. In it, Vice President, David Reid, reveals the following: He first turned to Rift, the company’s first release from March, which he explained now has over one million customers and is the “second largest MMO in the West.”" Over 1 million CUSTOMERS, or paying users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 THis post should be titled: Global LFG CHannel Needed Badly It should keep the same title. Just a global LFG channel alone wouldn't fix the problems an in-server LFD tool would. You can still end up spamming LFG for a long time. Not to mention pointless travel to the flashpoint would still be there. Instanly teleporting would save a ton of time and result in people actually playing group content rather than skipping it because of pointless travel hasstle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooper Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 The game does need this tool. At what point is it socializing when you jump around a space station for 40 mins, typen in general "LFG Athiss". I don't stop and talk to every Tom, Dick and Harry on the space station. I am sure you don't either. I play the game to actually, you know play the game. Put it this way. If I want to socialize with people, I will. How ever when my objective for the evening is too go out to a flashpoint and have fun, then I would like to meet that objective and not whittle away my time spamming. A lfg channel can work. However I think this is the same with a lot of people, those global channels get ticked off to show because of the trolls. Don't even keep spewing that filth that this tool ruins communities. It is a tool. We ruin communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) It should keep the same title. Just a global LFG channel alone wouldn't fix the problems an in-server LFD tool would. You can still end up spamming LFG for a long time. Not to mention pointless travel to the flashpoint would still be there. Instanly teleporting would save a ton of time and result in people actually playing group content rather than skipping it because of pointless travel hasstle. Why not just give you a button so you can instant teleport to where all the questsgivers and then to the quest location are aswell then? instant travel between planets is aswell faster so that must be in. In that way all you need to do is log in press 1 button and then you have all the quests one more press instant teleportation to first quest location . Do the quest press instant teleportation to the next place. Would skip you a ton of time and would let you play all the game and let you skip all the pointless travels right? Same logic. Edited January 4, 2012 by Varghjerta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Why not just give you a button so you can instant teleport to where all the questsgivers and then to the quest location are aswell then? instant travel between planets is aswell faster so that must be in. In that way all you need to do is log in press 1 button and then you have all the quests one more press instant teleportation to first quest location . Do the quest press instant teleportation to the next place. Would skip you a ton of time and would let you play all the game and let you skip all the pointless travels right? Same logic. Because you don't have to rely on finding other people to go to quest areas or different planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Because you don't have to rely on finding other people to go to quest areas or different planets. But still it is an MMO and using the " travelling between planets and instances" should be considered as wasting time. Then all travelling should actualy be considered wasting time. I have nothing against a nice user friendly LFG window but i think Automated LFG should be left out Edited January 4, 2012 by Varghjerta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 really, how did you play wow with one button dps? Early TBC the best spec for mages was fire and the best spell was scorch and if you pressed any other button you got lower dps. But that has nothing to do with macros at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Wun Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Regardless if you are auto grouped by a built in tool or manually adding people. Any friends that you are not already in group with when you are trying to fill the slots will be strangers and chances will be taken. No reason why it can't, TO START, autogroup you with people on your server. Then if that doesn't work, expand to interconnected servers like WoW did. That was the single best improvement in WoW that I had ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoulishtie Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Maybe after the first expansion, but so far i've had no problem. /Really hopes Bioware doesn't give in to the lazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quip Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 As a solution to the problem in general, I think that's a great idea. Probably not doable for TOR though. I am a huge fan of the single server solution; I'm sure there are technical issues with chat etcetera once a server sees hundreds of thousands of people in a single zone's chat (even if the zone is hundreds of stacked instances). But technical problems isn't my problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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