JarrenBlake Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Its always like this. be it Biochem, or Alchemy, or whatever. The consumables crafts have always been better than the gear crafts. By leaps and bounds. How in teh world did anyone come into this game expecting different? The only game that managed to pull this off (in a modern type MMo economy) to my knowledge was the first Final Fantasy MMO in which you had two consumable crafts (Cooking and Alchemy), and multple clases that had consumable weapons such as bullets and arrows that were also craft made only. On top of that most all armor was crafted and drops were most mats and so forth. That and the crafts were crazy hard and involved to skill up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onomas Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Its always like this. be it Biochem, or Alchemy, or whatever. The consumables crafts have always been better than the gear crafts. By leaps and bounds. How in teh world did anyone come into this game expecting different? The only game that managed to pull this off (in a modern type MMo economy) to my knowledge was the first Final Fantasy MMO in which you had two consumable crafts (Cooking and Alchemy), and multple clases that had consumable weapons such as bullets and arrows that were also craft made only. On top of that most all armor was crafted and drops were most mats and so forth. That and the crafts were crazy hard and involved to skill up. swg also had a good system of consumables. Armor had to be repaired by an armorsmith, weapons repaired by a weaponsmith, etc. None of this taking 0/100 condition stuff to a vendor and poof instant fix. Thats so stupid. SWG was one of the first and better crafting/economy systems. Well until loot junk turned into the main source of income and killed crafters. Basicaly the end of SWG is the begining of TOR. SAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olarid Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The problem is the amount of mats required to make the trade-able stims. It's not going to be feasible to pump out a bunch of those a day without dedicating all your time doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kainsec Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Problem is these things create to much of an advantage in warzones. In PvE I could care less about their benefits in disparity to a non biochem crafter. In PvP the fact that stims in a warzone do not persist through death (making it too cost inefficient to buy blues when you go through 4 or 5 in a warzone), the fact that adrenals are like having another more powerful relic slot, and the fact the the rakata medpack is very very powerful (particualrly for ppl in tank specs), give huge edges to biochem crafters over every other profession in the game. Currently in PvP if you are not a biochem crafter you are at a huge disadvantage. Just making stims persist through death in warzone but not in PvE or in open world PvP would be a huge step in the right direction which wouldn't nerf biochem in anyway. Givng other crew skills perks for being 400 would be nice. Only Cybertech really has a perk for high level crafting currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomness Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Biochem is currently the only worth while crew skill. It doesn't make it OP, it makes the other crewskills underpowered. All crewskills need a unique benefit that only people with that crewskill get. Biochem gets awesome reusable stims and medkits. The other crewskills need something similar. I hate to use WoW as an example, but they had it right with the tradeskill perks in that game. Cybertech gets reusable grenades at level 50... as discrete recipes instead of RE results, which is stupid. (Though there's a bug regarding RE on grenades - you can't RE them, but it says you can in the item description, which is... odd.) Five minute universal cooldown on grenades though. (Yes, I know there are separate recipes from trainer for Rakata medpacs which are reusable, but the utter lack of lower level purple grenades is stupid. Just make it the same as RE meds, blue is superior, purple is a reusable green, and there's no issue) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDaniels Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 No.. it is op. I use my rakata medpac 3-5 times in an average warzone... Are you suggesting that an average palyer can afford to do that? Similarly I use my adrenal 2-3 times, and have my stim up all the time. The costs associated with that much use of non-biochem exclusive items is ridiculously high and could not be supported by just credits from warzones Therefore it is NOT FEASIBLE for a non-biochem player to use biochem items in PvP and as a result biochem users are at a massive advantage. For raids its different, but for PvP its just incorrect to say that biochem is balanced. BTW I'm 400 biochem so not biased... I just acknowledge that the benefits I get from biochem are really broken. There are only two solutions, one is to give other crafts some kind of massive bonus, or two to make resuable items tradeable. I think reusables must be made tradeable. The effort it would take to put in benefits for every other profession that are as significant as biochem's would be a serious project for Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Wait, so the whole point of this thread is actually a QQ because after spending hundreds of thousands of credits on leveling a skill you get to have reusable medpacks? You think it's not fair that we don't have to buy individual medpacks and stims for use in BGS? OP: Your are not so good at math are you? It would cost us LESS money to buy the stims and medpacks to use in PVP than it would to level this nightmarish skill. I'm only doing it because my guild needs someone to do it and no one else wants to put in the effort to this massively painful waste of time. If you want the same advantage as us buy the stims and battle heals at the start of your PVP match. Duh? There is a vendor in every starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomness Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Last I checked, there were highly potent pvp stims and meds available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 This thread is officially: "QQ! I'm bad at PVP so everyone else needs to be nerfed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leilei Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If it wasn't for the reusable stims/medpacks the Vendor Stims and Medpacks would make us just as obsolete as every other crafting profession out there. You can easily get by on the vendor purchased Stims and Medpacks from 1-50 and most 50+ situations. Each crafting profession gets their own perk at max level, some of them need to be buffed there's no doubt about that. Why not discuss how to buff your profession or class instead of calling for things to get nerfed? That's something that's been going on in MMO's for as long as I can remember. Come on people, don't hate on other crew skills or classes, help make your class or crew skill as good as the one you think is over powered. Just saying...The vendors dont sell Med Units (heals companion as well as you) and its the biggest seller I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnuskn Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Seems that there is another whine train steaming down the tracks... let's see if BioWare manages to not immediately cave and nerf the last useful profession into the ground. If they do, I think this might break my long-standing faith in their competence, at least for this BioWare team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) If they do, I think this might break my long-standing faith in their competence, at least for this BioWare team. They lost that when they removed my post after I said something someone suggested was technically not possible because of limitations on computer hardware. When I asked them why they removed the post they send me back a reply which is now my signature. | v Oh, wait, they removed my signature because it was bad for the reputation of the company. Talk about a stealth nerf *lol* Edited January 2, 2012 by Coyotecalls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeGBF Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The reusable aspect of epic medkits, adrenals and stims means they have no downside to use. If your medkit cooldown is up in PvP, and you need health, you use it for free health. If you die, you reactivate your stim for a free huge boost to stats. If you're in a fight and need a quick short-lasting boost of stats, you hit your adrenal. All of these things potentially turn the tide of a fight in your favor, and none of them have the downside of requiring you to gather materials to craft a replacement for the consumable you used. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, because professions like Armstech and Armormech would also naturally be built around items that are always active, providing a boost of stats in their own way. But those professions don't have competitive crafting blueprints at the level cap, or even really at any level. Sure, you might be able to craft a blaster barrel or armor plate with a rating slightly better than what you'd find doing an instance. Maybe. But the power gained from that doesn't even compare to ONE of Biochem's three free perks, let alone all of them, and if you want to reuse that barrel or armor plate, you have to pay a pretty hefty fee to rip it out of the gear you've got it in now. Biochem might be fundamentally flawed due to the reusable consumables. I'm not sure yet, because I love the idea and the convenience it provides. But it's hands down the best profession right now, and would probably still be the best profession by far even if the numbers were nerfed. I'm strongly considering dropping 330 arms/scav/investigation because I've used Biochem on an alt and even at level 20 it's obvious what an incredible impact it has on your ability to do anything combat-related in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elear Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Biochem might be fundamentally flawed due to the reusable consumables. I'm not sure yet, because I love the idea and the convenience it provides. But it's hands down the best profession right now, and would probably still be the best profession by far even if the numbers were nerfed. I'm strongly considering dropping 330 arms/scav/investigation because I've used Biochem on an alt and even at level 20 it's obvious what an incredible impact it has on your ability to do anything combat-related in this game. Nerf, hard. And don't dorget it's not only about bonuses, but about usefullness overall. Someone mentioned WoW bonuses, let's see how it was done: Consumables skill(alch) Service skill(ench) "Mod" skill(gems) Gear skills Gadget skill(eng) About selling: First one by don't have to worry about demand, consumables are always disappearing Following two are driven by new gear, and that creates limited steady demand. Gear skills rarely sell at high level, except for some special schematics from raids. Very limited demand. Gadgets are black sheep, and they are happy by themselves, reciving far more random benefits for price of being almost useless as moneymaker. Blizzard solved issue of bonuses together with issue of demand, adding specific mods to gear skills. So essentially, there are only two ways demand was created - by new gear, for mods, and by itself, with consumables. In SWTOR mods are reusable, and that makes giving steady demand for everyone other than biochem quite hard. Also, there is currently no mechanic where other crafts could be given specific for them bonus. Also, there is no place for such thing. Biochem gives you advantage, partialy tradeable. If other skill also had tradeable powerups, players could land due to this far stronger than they should. And because of this, if anyone wants to try to even playing field, biochem has to get nerfed to the groud(level when other crafts are), and buffed together with other crafts, from scratch. Still, doubt it'll happen this year if at all. Edited January 2, 2012 by Elear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theironx Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) brb powerleveling biochem Edited January 2, 2012 by Theironx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TmanSWTOR Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) When I saw this, I LOLed. Hadn't been perusing this forum at all so I had I no idea there was any fuss about biochem. Hilarious that anyone would think it was "OP" though, absolutely hilarious. Edited January 2, 2012 by TmanSWTOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eycel Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I took Biochem after hiting level 19 yesterday cause every cent goes into med packs and stims, I mean every last cent. It takes me a good while to round up 10k credits, but right about that time I need more med packs and stims and I go back to 0. So I figured Id take Biochem since I wouldn't have to waste every cent I own spending it on the stupid medical droid every time I log in. I took it and the classes that helped it along. Then I realised to my self, everyone Iv talked to and played with in all my groups, they all have had Biochem, not like just a few, but literally every single person in PUG's. I didnt want to go down like that, the game needs diversity, Im always the one to lead the charge. I havent picked what kinda crafting skill I want yet though. Edited January 2, 2012 by eycel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirosu Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Bioware will take the easy way out and make Biochem also useless. They don't want crafters they only want players that enjoy the story and then leave. Honestly they don't seem to be listening to the players in the slightest. They take the easy way out if they do anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis_Shadow Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Are... people seriously asking for a skill to be nerfed because it doesn't TOTALLY SUCK IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY?! The other crafting skills need a buff, hell probably even this one in the long run. Crafting in this game is pretty much pointless; just getting 100 levels in Synthweaving on my Sith totally bankrupt me due to the material costs (granted 3/4 of the archaeology nodes being glitched didn't help, thanks for that Bioware...) and that's just to make level 20 gear for her... that I could probably buy from a vendor for less than 10k for a full set, or just run a flashpoint and get WAY BETTER gear. Artificing just has no point at all from what I can tell (big whoop, I can craft a colour crystal/mod that I can buy from a vendor for several thousand times less than it costs to level, oh and of course, the cooler colour crystals are buyable only) Assumedly, the crafting for Armormech and Armstech are the same stupidly worthless pieces of junk; Cybertech I guess has -some- uses; even if I haven't really looked into it to see if it was worth it. The important thing though... why should it be balanced to PvP rather than to PvE. Don't get me wrong, balance in PvP is important, but nerfing an entire mechanic just to fit a very VERY small niche of the community is ridiculous. Rather than nerfing a skill to fit PvP, just make it so it works differently (or not at all) in PvP. Then more or less everyone is happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnuskn Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Are... people seriously asking for a skill to be nerfed because it doesn't TOTALLY SUCK IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY?! Yes, yes that is what is happening. I'm beginning to think that there are still Guild Wars 2 fanboy infiltrators around, who want to destroy every aspect of the game which actually works well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentow Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I believe its starting to destroy the market. Like almost 75% of my 40 member guild switch from w/e profession to Biochem. Also, take a look at the GTN, I see so much medpacks, stims, adrenals, and implants compared to the much lower amount of other stuff like weapon and armor mods. Sure you get reusable medpacks and all that. I just think the people who say its not op are the people bathing in the selfishness of not having to spend money on there medpacks and stim buffs. I chose armstech, I'm not going to complain about it for what I can make because it does benefit me with high end BOP weapon and barrels as an IA Sniper. I'm not saying Bio is way over the top op, but realistically it is op compared to the other crew skill, so personally don't nerf bio but just give us others a little more love to help recover the lost benefits compared to bio, I believe its only fair. Otherwise majority is gonna be going bio ruining the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnuskn Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Sure you get reusable medpacks and all that. I just think the people who say its not op are the people bathing in the selfishness of not having to spend money on there medpacks and stim buffs. Do you have any idea of how much potential profit I am losing by having to RE all of my output, to even get those recipes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaderin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The one thing I find strange about calling for nerfs to crafting skills...is why would anyone want to make someone's chosen profession useless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liralen Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 For those that said all the time and money spent to level to 400 should ahve special perks, well obviously you didnt feel that way when you were crying about slicing. Its just because it benifits you, not the entire server. The fact that you think the two are the same people is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conundrum-NSA Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I bet slicers are reading this thread with a great deal of satisfaction. I told you all who whined about Slicing to hope to god no one decided one of your skills is overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts