Never seen a valid argument against the LFD

[Saporah]

It went from a game where wipes were expected (and were sometimes actually fun) and you had to work together to achieve something, to where if you ever wipe people started crying and pointing fingers. But that was a function of them making the dungeons too easy, so as to attract a younger and younger crowd. And with easy to get purples, even the most average player started believing he was superuberawesomesauce and everyone else a noob.

.

 

 

I also miss the days when a group would wipe, laugh, try a new strategy, wipe, try again, wipe, new strategy, wipe, then FINALLY get it. What a victory. That's how brotherhoods are formed.

 

Nowadays if you wipe once for whatever the reason people drop group without so much as a "ty anyway" ... it's pretty pathetic.

[ColdLogic]

Having no LFG system discourages me greatly to even look for groups, why should I bother? It's such an old and clunky system now to not have a LFG tool.

 

I use the current Swtor LFG box as a healer, put a LFG message and literally after 8 hours give up.. no one responds.

 

People with lives, jobs, and who value their time dislike having to waste copious amounts of it to find a group. If warzones were not instant I would probably not play them, my same sediments to the flashpoints.

 

I feel sorry for bioware, they spent so much time designing the flashpoints yet I've maybe run a total of 10 trips and I'm lvl 41.

 

This prehistoric thinking model has got to go if they want to keep people addicted to their game.

Edited January 8, 2012 by ColdLogic

[artilleryshell]

good news, there's a resonable solution that gives both sides most of what they want!

 

A dungeon finder system based on the same server.

 

Its a little slower than a cross server one, so its not perfect for the wow crowd, yet..

 

Its not some super immersive experiance so its not perfect for the rp server crowd

 

HOWEVER.

The system works for both in that it isn't an absolute affront to either.

[Sinigual]

We need SOME form of a LFG tool.

 

Yes, there are a few groups of players that don't have this problem, guilds that migrated here from WoW, Rift, etc... but for the GREAT majority of players, who only have an hour or two a day TOPS, time in game needs to be spent doing something fun, not sitting idle in Fleet spamming /1 waiting and begging.

 

I'm sure it's in the works. But there are quite a few things that need to be implemented before a LFG tool.

[Divinusfoeda]

I'm not really against the idea of a LFG tool as much as I am it being cross-server. I played WoW from early 2005 to up until TOR came out here a few weeks ago. It was a good time, where people would wipe and get back up and try again. I believe the LFD tool most certainly caused a downward spiral in a community that wasn't the best to begin with.

 

As many before me have said, I remember knowing near everyone in my group. I knew if they were a good player, a bad player, a douche bag and even a ninja. You could also argue that even the paid name changes took their own toll on the community as those bad or mean players could just change their names.

 

The last few months I spent in WoW's LFG system were pure horror (especially before the buff to threat) as a tank. DPS going absolutely insane at every pull, doing whatever they wanted. You could argue this was just a bad DPS and not representative of the LFG system as a whole, but I disagree. Most of them would never act out and do the arrogant things they do if they knew they'd have to face their peers again.

 

I would completely support a LFG tool that either has no cross-server functionality or an option for a cross-server queue. I would go so far to say that the game definitely would benefit from a LFG tool that formed groups within the server boundaries. Having the option, I personally would probably stay out of the cross-server queues, but those who enjoy the quick, fast paced, lets just get it done play style would be happy. We all have our play styles and I don't think any one play style is the right way, so maybe if we could find something that would benefit us all, Bioware could improve on this concept and develop a LFG tool that works for SWTOR's community.

[Breeti]

You never will see a valid argument. It's all emotion, opinion, and conjecture.

[Bregah]

I've never seen a valid argument against LFD, either

 

It seems to be mostly people that just hate anything related the the Warcraft IP, and Blizzard Entertainment; and/or people that think it's a Developer's job to help them make friends on the internet

 

 

I haven't seen a valid argument against, either.

 

I think people that are against an LFD tool think "community" and "general chat spamming for groups" is the same thing.

[Bregah]

Having no LFG system discourages me greatly to even look for groups, why should I bother? It's such an old and clunky system now to not have a LFG tool.

 

I use the current Swtor LFG box as a healer, put a LFG message and literally after 8 hours give up.. no one responds.

 

I do that all the time as a tank.

 

But I'm not on the Fleet so it doesn't matter.

 

I'm 47, and I set my LFG note as Tank - FP my level all the time.

 

Of course the note changes when it feels like it to LFG, but I change it back.

 

But I'm on some planet doing something, and I stay there til I'm done (or have to sleep).

 

I finish a planet, come back to Fleet to train or buy crew skills (and it's the end of the night, so I'm about to log and sleep) and am instantly asked to tank stuff because I'm "LFG".

 

But I've been "LFG" for the past 3-6 hours and no one knew it.

 

Because I wasn't on Fleet, and the tool is awful for actually finding groups.

 

I'm 47 and have completed 5 of the flashpoints - not for not wanting to do them, but for not wanting to stand in the Fleet and spam for a group.

[Angedechu]

What is quite puzzling is Bioware reluctance to go for the LFD/LFR, considering it's a tremendous success for the competition

[Taroen]

I haven't seen a valid argument against, either.

 

I think people that are against an LFD tool think "community" and "general chat spamming for groups" is the same thing.

 

And people who so desperately want a tool only know how to get a group by spamming general.

 

I never have any trouble getting groups, and I've never once sat around spamming the general chat. I've never used the current LFG marker, either.

 

MMOs are social games. Get a guild. Quit trying to turn this into a lobby game just because you want to be anti-social.

[CelestrialFox]

Having no LFG system discourages me greatly to even look for groups, why should I bother? It's such an old and clunky system now to not have a LFG tool.

 

I use the current Swtor LFG box as a healer, put a LFG message and literally after 8 hours give up.. no one responds.

 

Funny I just ask in General and get a party within 5 min maybe 10 if it's off hours.

[Bregah]

And people who so desperately want a tool only know how to get a group by spamming general.

 

I never have any trouble getting groups, and I've never once sat around spamming the general chat. I've never used the current LFG marker, either.

 

MMOs are social games. Get a guild. Quit trying to turn this into a lobby game just because you want to be anti-social.

 

I'm in a guild.

 

I'm 47 (and a tank).

 

We have 13 people that are 45 or higher. None of them are healers.

 

No one wants to heal (they say they will at 50 and we start ops, but they don't want to be heal spec while solo - as a long-time WoW healer on 3 classes - I don't blame them, even if it's easier to solo this game as heals than WoW). So when WE form up, we need a healer. And that means LFG.

 

We'd have a healer if dual specs were in the game (and they should be). We actually have too many tanks that are 45+ (4).

 

One sorc did respec to heals to run a couple flashpoints one day. When he saw the cost to respec back, he simply said "never again".

 

In so many aspects, this game is stuck in 2005. That's NOT a good thing.

[Taroen]

I'm in a guild.

 

I'm 47 (and a tank).

 

We have 13 people that are 45 or higher. None of them are healers.

 

No one wants to heal (they say they will at 50 and we start ops, but they don't want to be heal spec while solo - as a long-time WoW healer on 3 classes - I don't blame them, even if it's easier to solo this game as heals than WoW). So when WE form up, we need a healer. And that means LFG.

 

We'd have a healer if dual specs were in the game (and they should be). We actually have too many tanks that are 45+ (4).

 

One sorc did respec to heals to run a couple flashpoints one day. When he saw the cost to respec back, he simply said "never again".

 

In so many aspects, this game is stuck in 2005. That's NOT a good thing.

 

So maybe you're in the wrong guild. Not knocking your guild really, but if you don't have anyone willing to heal in it, then... You should really get people who are. I'm a tank, too, and I respec all the time to dps just because we have a few other tanks and we want to group together. The costs can get somewhat high, but not nearly as high as repair costs from doing stuff with random people who might not be so great. I spent 100k today to respec back to tank just because we're running EV tonight. But if you're not able to swing those costs at the higher levels, then you're missing credit gain opportunities somewhere along the line.

[Bregah]

I spent 100k today to respec back to tank just because we're running EV tonight.

 

I'm not knocking you specifically, but the fact that you did that (and it was necessary) in this game means part of this game's design is, quite simply, dumb.

 

I like my guild.

 

I like the people in my guild.

 

Most of us are from WoW.

 

Most of us are feeling constrained by this game's systems designs.

 

I always heal in MMOs (FFXI, EQ2, WoW, and all the 1 month MMO's I've played). I WILL heal in this one. But I made an alt Warrior (became Juggernaut) to slice, and found I liked the class, so it's now my "main" (sorc is 19). Other people in my guild are doing similar things (trying different MMO styles, etc).

 

And we're finding the design of the systems are hampering our fun. By that I mean no LFG tool (or a very weak one). No dual specing (pricey respecs). Really bad UI.

 

By hampering our fun, I mean we simply don't do things that we would in "other MMOs", like run group content as we're leveling. Because we simply don't have a healer in our dozen or so people. We WOULD have a coupe healers if dual specs were in the game. But Bioware chose a 2005 design system in 2011, and that, IMO, was bad. So we'd like an LFD tool. But again Bioware chose an outdated system here, too.

 

Why they did these things, I don't know. But they did. I think they were poor decisions. Most of my core guildmates agree. We HOPE things get better. Right now we're enjoying the single player experience (which is superb). But as an MMO, most of us feel that ToR is subpar. Because it feels "old".

 

It doesn't help that for the resources needed to run it, it really doesn't look much better than most other games that use a fraction of the power ToR does. But then again Dragon Age 1 is a 2 or 3 year old game and as of 6 months ago it ran pretty crap on very nice systems, too (while Dragon Age 2 doesn't suffer from that problem).

[Angedechu]

From my WoW experience, I knew from the day one that I would not roll a DPS.

 

I rolled first a Sith Warrior, and like it somewhat. I will retry a healing class (Smuggler, maybe, or agent)

[Taroen]

I'm not knocking you specifically, but the fact that you did that (and it was necessary) in this game means part of this game's design is, quite simply, dumb.

 

I like my guild.

 

I like the people in my guild.

 

Most of us are from WoW.

 

Most of us are feeling constrained by this game's systems designs.

 

I always heal in MMOs (FFXI, EQ2, WoW, and all the 1 month MMO's I've played). I WILL heal in this one. But I made an alt Warrior (became Juggernaut) to slice, and found I liked the class, so it's now my "main" (sorc is 19). Other people in my guild are doing similar things (trying different MMO styles, etc).

 

And we're finding the design of the systems are hampering our fun. By that I mean no LFG tool (or a very weak one). No dual specing (pricey respecs). Really bad UI.

 

By hampering our fun, I mean we simply don't do things that we would in "other MMOs", like run group content as we're leveling. Because we simply don't have a healer in our dozen or so people. We WOULD have a coupe healers if dual specs were in the game. But Bioware chose a 2005 design system in 2011, and that, IMO, was bad. So we'd like an LFD tool. But again Bioware chose an outdated system here, too.

 

Why they did these things, I don't know. But they did. I think they were poor decisions. Most of my core guildmates agree. We HOPE things get better. Right now we're enjoying the single player experience (which is superb). But as an MMO, most of us feel that ToR is subpar. Because it feels "old".

 

It doesn't help that for the resources needed to run it, it really doesn't look much better than most other games that use a fraction of the power ToR does. But then again Dragon Age 1 is a 2 or 3 year old game and as of 6 months ago it ran pretty crap on very nice systems, too (while Dragon Age 2 doesn't suffer from that problem).

 

So basically what it boils down to is that you want an LFD tool because no one in your guild wants to respec..? Not good. It's not hard to level as a healer. I'm levelling a sawbones as an alt and having a blast. My pet tanks everything and I can usually add a lot of dps because he doesn't take a ton of damage when you gear him.

 

I agree with you that the speccing system in this game needs some changes. I would prefer to just know exactly what my cost is going to be and when it resets. Dual spec might be nice but Bioware has already stated that they don't really want people switching specs back and forth constantly, and that respecs are in the game to correct possible mistakes you made, or for rare role changes. Even so, the costs reset once a week.

 

That's no reason to turn this game into a lobby game like WoW has become.

[Angedechu]

On the plus side, it's true that leveling a tank or a healer is much less a pain in TOR than in other games.

 

Why need a dual spec, to a large degree ? You just need to switch companions.

 

On the negative side, face it. Healing or Tanking is much more stressfull than DPS. Period.

 

Some people will ALWAYS pick DPS over other classes. Your reward is lower queues or wait for groups

[Bregah]

 

That's no reason to turn this game into a lobby game like WoW has become.

 

Well I don't feel like WoW is a lobby, but if you do, you do.

 

I think LFD was GOOD for WoW. I think dual specs was GOOD for WoW. I thought more than dual specs was GOOD for Rift (though I didn't stick with that game for other reasons).

 

I got much more enjoyment in WoW after dual specs were added (I was a resto shaman, and most non-raid days I simply did my daily dungeon and logged out, because I didn't want to go through their crap quests to level an alt, and didn't want to pay to respec to solo dailies).

 

I got much more enjoyment in WoW after LFD was added (because we didn't have to hope one of our guild tanks was on and wanted to run a dungeon, or spam Dalaran for a tank). I also leveled up many alts after LFD (and PvP xp) was added, because I didn't have to QUEST to level - questing is generally boring, and it's really bad in WoW - that is one area that ToR is miles ahead of WoW (and all other MMOs).

 

I just know that no LFD and no dual specs will lead to me PLAYING LESS (even if I'm logged in - I'm not "playing" if I'm spamming general to get a 4th person for a Flashpoint).

 

Me PLAYING LESS means I'm more likely to simply not subscribe. At this point in the MMO world, I think a good LFD tool and dual spec are both essential features, and ToR lacks them. Many agree, and many disagree. But since ToR does lack them, in my mind it's a "lesser" MMO than those that have the features. By not having the features, the game itself inhibits my ability to experience content (compared to other MMOs).

[jediabiwan]

One of my few friends who plays MMOs used to be huge jerk. We started off playing Runes of Magic a FTP mmo, he joined one of the biggest guilds on the server and ninja'ed a few items from a raid. Within a few days, it was impossible for him to get a group. On almost every zone he was in someone from the guild would warn anyone as soon as he asked to join a group. He eventually quit because it was like the entire server hated him.

 

We then started up WoW. He started off needing on anything he could but eventually waited to the end of the dungeon as he discovered that he would get kicked most of the time. Now, I'm not saying the same thing would have have happened in WoW, unlikely as the population is so much higher.

 

A few weeks ago, I started playing TOR. After a few dungeons I meet another player and he invites me to join his guild. Because of cross server LFG, the chances of this happening in WoW were extremely low. Now i'm part of a very friendly guild, all thanks to the cross server LFG system. Not to mention, if I found some good players in a dungeon in WoW I couldn't run any more dungeons with them unless it was exactly after the one we were playing.

 

I am however, all for serverwide LFG. I see no reason to spam LFG on the stations when i could just click a button to do the same thing. I will say I've never had a problem finding a group with the current system though.

Edited January 9, 2012 by jediabiwan

[Taroen]

Well I don't feel like WoW is a lobby, but if you do, you do.

 

I think LFD was GOOD for WoW. I think dual specs was GOOD for WoW. I thought more than dual specs was GOOD for Rift (though I didn't stick with that game for other reasons).

 

I got much more enjoyment in WoW after dual specs were added (I was a resto shaman, and most non-raid days I simply did my daily dungeon and logged out, because I didn't want to go through their crap quests to level an alt, and didn't want to pay to respec to solo dailies).

 

I got much more enjoyment in WoW after LFD was added (because we didn't have to hope one of our guild tanks was on and wanted to run a dungeon, or spam Dalaran for a tank). I also leveled up many alts after LFD (and PvP xp) was added, because I didn't have to QUEST to level - questing is generally boring, and it's really bad in WoW - that is one area that ToR is miles ahead of WoW (and all other MMOs).

 

I just know that no LFD and no dual specs will lead to me PLAYING LESS (even if I'm logged in - I'm not "playing" if I'm spamming general to get a 4th person for a Flashpoint).

 

Me PLAYING LESS means I'm more likely to simply not subscribe. At this point in the MMO world, I think a good LFD tool and dual spec are both essential features, and ToR lacks them. Many agree, and many disagree. But since ToR does lack them, in my mind it's a "lesser" MMO than those that have the features. By not having the features, the game itself inhibits my ability to experience content (compared to other MMOs).

 

Well, regardless... You're going to get your wish. Bioware has already stated that they are considering adding a full fledged LFG tool, but they're waiting until the levelling curve is much higher. Adding it in areas that most people have already passed would probably not be such a bad thing, since it would be much harder to form groups then. Personally, I hope they don't go too far with it, and certainly don't make it cross-server.

 

You've decided to stay with your guild even though they don't currently meet your gaming needs. I know how it is to be with a group of people you genuinely like and have been with for a long time, but you guys should really re-examine your priorities if you're not getting what you want out of the game. Sounds like your healers are more interested in their bank account than running content.

 

Just sayin'...

[superlucci]

Well, regardless... You're going to get your wish. Bioware has already stated that they are considering adding a full fledged LFG tool, but they're waiting until the levelling curve is much higher. Adding it in areas that most people have already passed would probably not be such a bad thing, since it would be much harder to form groups then. Personally, I hope they don't go too far with it, and certainly don't make it cross-server.

 

You've decided to stay with your guild even though they don't currently meet your gaming needs. I know how it is to be with a group of people you genuinely like and have been with for a long time, but you guys should really re-examine your priorities if you're not getting what you want out of the game. Sounds like your healers are more interested in their bank account than running content.

 

Just sayin'...

 

This is my first post ever on any gaming forum community, because, I dont know. And I will also say that I am for LFG on server side but not for realm side.But anyways...

 

You do realize you are basically telling every single person who plays Star Wars that if you have any problem with the game whatsoever, you should not complain and its your fault because there is a possibility for you to overcome it.

 

Just because something has a possibility of happening does not make it probable. Telling somebody who just gave you valid reasons, which are common place reasons as to why certain features should be implemented, and then shutting them down because there is a way out of it is pretty odd to me.

 

This entire thread can easily have endless arguments for either side of this debate if we argue in absolutes.

 

On the LFG implementation side, you can say that any delay in doing any certain thing should be reduced to meet a certain standard, which Im then sure would simply be a subjective standard, therefore meaningless.

 

On the other hand, the people who are not for the LFG system could say something along the lines of, you shouldnt be allowed to use mounts in this game because it simply takes away from the experience of jogging to your destination and you need to explore a certain amount of content t any given time for it to be worthwhile, which once again is a subjective standard, therefore meaningless.

 

Nothing is NEEDED to be implemented, nothing is NEEDED to be taken away. If we argue in absolutes, but the problem is, practically every single gaming argument is simply an emotional, subjective, irrational post which can be proven false by using the exact opposite logic against them, including my own post, therefore Im a hypocrite and should shut up right now but I wont, because I am human and irrational, but will try my best to overcome in this post.

 

But anyway on to what I really want to say about this thread.

 

What do you think an individual playing this game is most likely going to do when faced with these 2 choices.

 

Choice 1. Use the Dungeon Finder tool because it obviously saves time, and we all have real life things to do, so time is always of the essence.

 

OR

 

Choice 2. Not Use the Dungeon Finder and wait a lot longer for a group, most likely ending up spamming Fleet Station for fear of the possibility of getting a jerk/ninja player?

 

Obviously most people are going with Choice 1.

 

Now I want to talk about the little subtopic in this thread about having instant teleportation to instances or not when your group is ready.

 

Hypothetically if we did have a LFG feature for only server wide, but nobody could teleport. The time it would take to manually fly/mount/jog to the instance would be tedious. What is the purpose of this? Why would I want to be on another planet just to have to manually fly to another, with all the loading screens, flying on speeders, waiting for elevators, and then using your own mount for destination, when all you could have done was teleport there?

 

This would be equivalent to saying we should get rid of Fast Travel in games like Elder Scrolls and Fallout simply because you should be exploring the content more. I know 1 is a single player game and one is an MMO, but the matter of principle is the same.Hell, lets take it to its absolute extreme and just make a game where you simply walk and look at scenery or something.

 

The whole community dying down argument doesnt make too much sense to me. (Im assuming that this argument is in retaliation about Server Wide LFG and not the Realm LFG, since most people on here already agree with Server LFG)

 

All LFG does is take the tedious effort out of finding a group. It doesnt take the challenging effort out of the game.

 

A Server Side LFG is not like add ons which water down the gameplay experience, it simply makes the tedious chores in the game not be there

Edited January 10, 2012 by superlucci

[GongStar]

Everytime there is a vote on LFD the idea gets crushed.

It matters little what some of you think since the majority seem to think that LFD is not worth having.

[alkanterah]

Everytime there is a vote on LFD the idea gets crushed.

It matters little what some of you think since the majority seem to think that LFD is not worth having.

 

Even if that were true, it would merely mean ignorance has prevailed and there's no reason to not inform people with clear misconceptions on how it would or could apply to this game.

 

Of course it matters what people think. To say otherwise is just, well.. Stupid.

[Wolftrot]

here's a tip. Make friends and leave a good impression by not being a jerk and by actually making an effort to socialize and not play it as a singleplayer game.

 

Also help people that are leveling even if it's out of your way. You'd be surprised how many of them will catch up to you or surpass you in levels and invite you later on.

 

I can get a group going anytime I wish to, simply because people WANT to group with me.

That said, I actually don't form groups from my friend list all the time because I want to meet new people and expand the list.

 

cheers!

Edited January 10, 2012 by Wolftrot

[Moricthian]

here's a tip. Make friends and leave a good impression by not being a jerk and by actually making an effort to socialize and not play it as a singleplayer game.

 

Also help people that are leveling even if it's out of your way. You'd be surprised how many of them will catch up to you or surpass you in levels and invite you later on.

 

I can get a group going anytime I wish to, simply because people WANT to group with me.

That said, I actually don't form groups from my friend list all the time because I want to meet new people and expand the list.

 

cheers!

 

While this is certainly good to do, it doesn't always work out this way. Even if I choose to be the best/friendliest player I can be, I can still have trouble getting a group on a Tuesday morning (when I have off). An LFD will enable to experience all the content of this game. Simply being kind isn't enough to get me a group.