"This game is new" isnt an accept excuse for the games problems

[SnaggleFox]

LoL at this. I'm a Star Wars fan. Not pleased.

 

Nothing will please everyone.

 

But I'm sure most people complaining are here because it's a "new" MMO, expecting it have every little feature that their past MMO had.

[flunkorg]

I have a rule of thumb to not "complain" about anything until 6 months after release. After that if none of the "major" issues of a MMO or resolved then its a safe bet that the games been abandon. Other then that I absolutely love this game and its perfectly playable right now even with the bugs. So il wait patiently, if theirs anything I've learned over the years is that you really can't tell whats the future of the mmo with out waiting for it to settle down.]

 

Edit: Scratch that, I don't even complain. I just leave and let it rot :l

Edited January 1, 2012 by flunkorg

[SnaggleFox]

I think the EA guy was quite pleased anouncing they were going to beat activision in every gaming genre, I do remember very well him saying that BF3 was just the start.

 

If you think that SWTOR is not a direct response to activision's hold on the market you are incredibly naive.

 

Also, they tried it with WAR to, EA is getting IP licenses left and right to try and beat wow at their own game, when what they should probably do is their own MMO that would break WoW in half

 

Except EA didn't create the game. It doesn't matter what EA's intentions are. You think BW cares about "beating" Activision?

 

Frankly, I don't care. Both EA and Acti. are both horrible money mongering companies.

[WickedDjinn]

If you want to compete in the big boys playground, you come prepared. No excuses sorry. None.

 

 

When a game, or really anything in any genre, has the sort of foothold that WoW has... no one is going to come roaring out of the gate with something more polished then what they've worked on for the past several years. It's not even possible, and if you think it is you are out of your mind.

 

To compete in the big boys playground, you have to take a different approach, and Bioware has done that. No one can clone WoW and come up with a better WoW.

[Gidoru]

Yea, terrible analogies bro. Do car engines, movies, etc CONTINUE to improve with time? Oh, that's right, you are comparing ******** to ********. Nice job bro

 

You are being just as silly as the people you are complaining about. Of COURSE a game can be given a free pass at launch, almost ALL MMOs are for at least a couple months.

 

You guys fail to realize that they need to make some *********** money, they can't sit on their asses with a product, adding in EVERY *********** THING some kid wants. They need to "GET TO MARKET", comprende?

 

Things can EASILY be added in at a later date. Seriously, relax or ****, I don't care which, but I'm tired of reading stupid threads like this OP.

 

See this from a previous response.

 

The question is not, whether there are movies or cars that are incomplete. Nor is the question would you watch a movie that is incomplete.

 

The question is more so, is it acceptable to have an incomplete movie for which the justification of its lack of completion is simply that the movie is new. To which i am suggesting the answer is no.

 

The type of product is irrelevant.

The point i was trying to get across is that one cannot use the newness of a product to justify its flaws. If a product wishes to compete in the market, as im sure SWTOR does, it needs to be released in a form that is sufficient to compete with products that are already on the market. Ideall the goal would be to improve upon what is already on the market. If the product fails to do so, it is not likely to succeed.

 

If you do not wish to read posts like this, then perhaps you should avoid doing so. Better yet, perhaps you should avoid reading the forums altogether, seeing as you must have had a reasonable expectation that there would be many such posts upon your visiting.(Seeing as you have read so many that you are tired of them ofcourse)

Edited January 1, 2012 by Gidoru

[Fireline]

Except EA didn't create the game. It doesn't matter what EA's intentions are. You think BW cares about "beating" Activision?

 

Frankly, I don't care. Both EA and Acti. are both horrible money mongering companies.

 

They are the pupeteers, BW is just the puppet

 

 

They finance the products for BW, so yea, they did create the game, they basically said what they wanted, and a product very similar to WoW, yet very far from it has come out of the gates

[Radiatonia]

LoL at this. I'm a Star Wars fan. Not pleased.

 

You are what they call a "no win case", then. If this is what it takes to get you angry, then you've:

 

A: Clearly not had much experience with MMO releases yet. Especially if you think this somehow compares to WoW's horrible release. Or that Bioware somehow needs to throw resources into the game during the holiday season to satisfy a 7 year lead.

 

B: Have extremely thin skin. Especially when the game is fully playable and enjoyable right now.

 

 

The game is perfectly playable, fun, and can stand on its own legs. The things people are making seem like they're life or death issues for the game are minor tweaks or bug fixes. Some of which have already been confirmed to be in the works to being fixed.

 

 

People need to chill out and go drink some old egg nog or something. And quit clogging up the general discussion forums with self righteous posts about how the game is doomed to failure. There's more important things to talk about.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Radiatonia

[Winnerbagel]

Expecting a game in the MMO genre, a game of this size and scale, to be completely bug-free at the time of release is very unrealistic. The "it's still new" argument is still very valid, I assure you.

 

Every MMO has bugs at release. This is just the way MMOs play out. Every MMO that has been released has had these bugs, so what makes you think SW:ToR should be any different? When it comes to bugs, the "standing on the shoulders of giants" argument does not apply here. That is to say, every new game will never be rid the flaws or missing pieces of games that came before it. WoW had bugs at release, as did Rift, and AoC, and WAR, and Aion, and so on.

 

Honestly, what can you expect Bioware to do about it? Do you expect the game to have zero bugs/problems at release from some mysterious leap in technology? What new "standards" have been developed that make bugs nonexistent? Building a brand new engine from the ground up will have problems -- this is a fact.

 

While the standards in miniscule things, like graphics or gameplay elements, may progress over time, common bugs and problems that have existed since the conception of software will never truly be eradicated. Logistical problems as well as human error will exist forever, and you have to take new releases with a grain of salt. For me, the game has a LOT of polish, and it will only improve as time goes on. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way.

[SaltAU]

SWTOR wasn't created to compete with WoW. It was created to please Star Wars fans.

 

Get over it.

 

Haha thats where you are wrong. The EA suits would like to have a word with you.

[WickedDjinn]

They are the pupeteers, BW is just the puppet

 

 

They finance the products for BW, so yea, they did create the game, they basically said what they wanted, and a product very similar to WoW, yet very far from it has come out of the gates

 

You clearly have no idea how the business works. They did not create the game.

[DarthLeland]

Let me preface this by saying this isnt a post trashing the game or complaining. This is a post directed at those who that throw around ridiculous and unfounded excuses at the slightest criticism(constructive or not) about this game.

 

The fact that this game is new or just came out is not an excuse for any flaws or missing features.

 

Would you go see a movie that was only 70% complete and had no ending, just because its 'new' ?

Would you buy a car with no engine? I guess thats fine because its new.

 

Bioware knew full well the types of features and content modern MMOs have. They seemingly had plenty of time and resources to develop this game. Players thinking about purchasing or continuing to play this game are completely justified in expecting that any missing content or features should have been present at launch. Moreover, most of them are complaining because they WANT to like the game and continuing playing, it is simply difficult to justify paying a monthly fee or playing a game you know is lacking fundamental features.

 

Futhermore the fact that WoW or any other MMO did not have "X feature" when it was released is not any better an excuse. This game is not competing with WoW of 2005, it is competing with the WoW(and other MMOs) of today. In 2005 MMOs were more primative, and less fleshed out, it was acceptable and common to lack certain features, it is however NOT acceptable today.

 

First of all you didn't even mention any "features or content" that was missing.

 

Just because it's in another MMO doesn't mean it has to be in any others.

 

WoW was a mess at it's launch... it was Blizzard's first MMO. It took them years and millions of dollars to polish and develop that game further.

 

This is Bioware's first MMO... it will take years for them to perfect it. Saying they should have every single feature that's in WoW or any other MMO that's successful is ridiculous; and if you think that, well, then you aren't very bright. Games are on a budget, and in the end not all features you want or like will make it to the final release.

[Nomagon]

You are what they call a "no win case", then. If this is what it takes to get you angry, then you've:

 

A: Clearly not had much experience with MMO releases yet. Especially if you think this somehow compares to WoW's horrible release. Or that Bioware somehow needs to throw resources into the game during the holiday season to satisfy a 7 year lead.

 

B: Have extremely thin skin. Especially when the game is fully playable and enjoyable right now.

 

 

The game is perfectly playable, fun, and can stand on its own legs. The things people are making seem like they're life or death issues for the game are minor tweaks or bug fixes. Some of which have already been confirmed to be in the works to being fixed.

 

 

People need to chill out and go drink some old egg nog or something. And quit clogging up the general discussion forums with self righteous posts about how the game is doomed to failure. There's more important things to talk about.

 

Lol at this. You read my post and gathered this from it. Lol @ U.

[WickedDjinn]

Haha thats where you are wrong. The EA suits would like to have a word with you.

 

There is no reasoning with people like yourself. You're just a cynic who's decided that since EA is a big company with lots of money, EA = Bad and anything remotely associated with them = Bad.

[SaltAU]

I think the EA guy was quite pleased anouncing they were going to beat activision in every gaming genre, I do remember very well him saying that BF3 was just the start.

 

If you think that SWTOR is not a direct response to activision's hold on the market you are incredibly naive.

 

Also, they tried it with WAR to, EA is getting IP licenses left and right to try and beat wow at their own game, when what they should probably do is their own MMO that would break WoW in half

 

Encouraging BioWare to do a 'polished' (not SWTOR polish but real polish) Mass Effect game would have been a better idea. As it turns out its stuck somewhere between them both and quite frankly doesn't know its a** from its backside.

[_Miranda_]

Would you go see a movie that was only 70% complete and had no ending, just because its 'new' ?

 

I very much enjoyed Fellowship of the Ring.

[flunkorg]

Edit: Ehhh, just... forget it.

Getting mad on the internet is pointless.

Edited January 1, 2012 by flunkorg

[Radiatonia]

Lol at this. You read my post and gathered this from it. Lol @ U.

 

I gathered it from everyone that's been posting these kind of topics. It was a general post meant to address most people who've been acting like the game is on its last legs or something when it's in fact doing very well, and constantly increasing in subscribers.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Radiatonia

[Gazzzenn]

Haha thats where you are wrong. The EA suits would like to have a word with you.

 

well he's not wrong just half right.

 

it was created to make money please fans of star wars and kotor and smack blizzard....not in that order but you get the point.

 

i see no reason why it can't be all of those to ea/bioware and it's fans.

[SaltAU]

There is no reasoning with people like yourself. You're just a cynic who's decided that since EA is a big company with lots of money, EA = Bad and anything remotely associated with them = Bad.

 

Not at all, I quite like some games that are published by EA, I just don't think very highly of this one.

[dharh]

I'm just ganna go ahead and poke holes in the OP because I'm bored.

 

 

1: Many movies are in fact incomplete when they go to theaters. Many scenes are cut out to make the movie shorter, which is then sold in extended editions for more money when put onto DvD/Bluray.

 

2: Many people buy cars without parts, including engines to work on them as a hobby.

 

I just wanted to point that out ^_^

 

Next, no MMO is EVER complete. There will always be bugs, and always more content to come until the game shuts down.

 

I believe this game has more than enough excuses to be incomplete or buggy. BW is new to the MMO scene. The fact that they went straight from RPGs to AAA MMOs is a daunting task they undertook. And I think they did quite well.

 

People need to understood this game wasn't made to be the next big MMO. BW didn't make the game with "Lets get 13 million subs and beat WoW" in mind. The game was created to continue the KOTOR story line. Not to beat every MMO out there.

 

SWTOR is meant for the Star Wars fans, the people who love the Star Wars story, universe, etc...

 

I'm guessing... (my opinion) on why BW made this game a MMO instead of an RPG is because:

 

1: They wanted to make money. Just like any sensible company. And MMOs can be a huge profit.

 

2: They wanted to bring KOTOR fans together. Which I believe they did by adding all the voice acting and such, successfully creating a good storyline.

 

 

Now, people need to understand they're working on patches. It's not like the devs are sitting around laughing at people's problems with the game. It's holiday season right now, BW employees have lives to and most are probably with family and friends. The release date was horrible, probably a ploy by EA to make more money. But the point is they're working on fixes, and that doesn't mean every bug will be fixed in the next 5 minutes. You all need to learn some patience and wait. Unsub if you're unhappy with the game's state and come back in a couple months.

 

This guy knows whats up.

 

 

See this from a previous response.

 

The question is not, whether there are movies or cars that are incomplete. Nor is the question would you watch a movie that is incomplete.

 

The question is more so, is it acceptable to have an incomplete movie for which the justification of its lack of completion is simply that the movie is new. To which i am suggesting the answer is no.

 

The type of product is irrelevant.

The point i was trying to get across is that one cannot use the newness of a product to justify its flaws. If a product wishes to compete in the market, as im sure SWTOR does, it needs to be released in a form that is sufficient to compete with products that are already on the market. Ideall the goal would be to improve upon what is already on the market. If the product fails to do so, it is not likely to succeed.

 

If you do not wish to read posts like this, then perhaps you should avoid doing so. Better yet, perhaps you should avoid reading the forums altogether, seeing as you must have had a reasonable expectation that there would be many such posts upon your visiting.(Seeing as you have read so many that you are tired of them ofcourse)

 

This makes a false assumption that SWTOR was designed to trump WoW rather than appeal to Star Wars and KOTOR fans. It definitely appeals to me (a star wars and KOTOR fan) and based on the answers I get from all the friends I know who have played this game and are fans just like me, they think this game is awesome.

 

One of my friends, who used to be a diehard WoW raider thinks SWTOR is pretty darn good.

 

So, sure if you want to be a dork about it, you can't excuse the flaws (as you see them) of SWTOR by comparing it to WoW when it was released. However, I assert you also can't expect SWTOR to be on the same level as WoW is now (considering the fact that there are quite a few people who actually think WoW sucks and/or has turned from a good game to a horrible game).

 

SWTOR is what it is. IMO it's friggin awesome and time will tell if it becomes even better.

Edited January 1, 2012 by dharh

[Fireline]

You clearly have no idea how the business works. They did not create the game.

 

I am fully aware what a publisher is and what a developer is, tyvm.

Regardless of that, this is still a EA ( as publisher) game.

 

Are you honestly going to say that this game is not one more response to the WoW customer base primarily, just like Warhammer was exactly the same?

 

In any case, MMO's are a tough market nowadays, EA is an horrible publisher for an MMO, I simply think they don't know how to give breathing room to a developper company that is making an MMO. Depite the fact that I am enjoying the game at this point, I can point many flaws that are most likelly going to take a few months to fix.

 

Make no mistakes, the first impressions are the most important part of an mmo life cycle now, it doesnt matter if the few thousand that started playing WoW had the game ridden with bugs, lag, server crashes.

A newly launched MMO can't afford to have them now, because gamers are not as forgiving as they were.

 

Early MMOs could be "meaner" because there were fewer choices, but today players have options

[Nightrode]

The game is an incomplete product, despite it being an MMO with launch issues.

 

There are basic MMO features that should be in every MMO at launch:

 

Combat Log (really?...)

Target of Target

Customizable UI

 

That's just to name a few. Regardless, it's not absolutely unacceptable. There are a lot of features that the game has that makes it good.

 

However, I still believe the game is an unfinished product. There were multiple HUGE problems that still exist within the game (Flashpoint grouping issues and Ability Delay to name some). These things were brought up in multiple threads (one of which I brought up as well but probably didnt make my point clear enough obviously, but were looked over and/or ignored.

 

In order to make the greatest profit however, they needed to release it right before Christmas, and they did. You can thank EA for that.

 

Regardless, I still think most, if not all of the major problems will be solved such as ability delay (since they've officially acknowledged it already). It's perfectly understandable to have frusterations and complain/debate about the game's issues, because that is what comes with part of playing MMOs. You pay a lot of money to play these games, so you have a right to critique it.

 

Anyway, TL;DR: Grab a cup of joe, and relax. Enjoy the finer parts of the game, and wait for the bad stuff to be ironed out. If you're too immature enough to accept that concept then MMOs really just aren't for you. That's part of the package.

[NovusAnimus]

Hmmm, the original post seems to completely ignore the concept of multiplicative growth in quality.

 

 

 

Take, let's say, the original Everquest. As it was the basis for most MMOs today, we can consider EQ to have a base launch value of 1.

 

Take World of Warcraft, which refined, redid, and added many elements to this EQ formula at launch. We can say it has a base value of 2.

 

Take SW: The Old Republic, which has again,r refined, redid, and added many elements to the WoW formula at launch. We can say it has a base value of 4.

 

Due to the multiplicative nature of adding elements of interactivity, you can say the total amount of interactive elements and forms of combinational 'gameplay' in these games is increased by its base value every 2 years.

 

So in 6 years from launch, EQ becomes 4, WoW becomes 8, and SW:ToR becomes 16.

 

 

WoW may CURRENTLY have a total gameplay value of 9 now (2 + (7years/2)*2), while SW:TOR only has 4, but not only will SW:TOR quickly catch up as it gains a gameplay value of 4 every 2 years, versus WoW's 2, it will eventually overtake WoW in gameplay value.

 

 

These numbers are purely representative, but the concept of a larger base multiplier is KEY when evaluating game content that is consistently updated. The numbers will hopefully allow people to understand that.

 

 

TLDR: No, you can't judge a game that's constantly being updated at launch versus one that's been out 7 years. This is a horribly blind view of game design. For games that are constantly updated, you need to consider the base multiplier, and you have completely ignored that. You have ignored a KEY element of game design when it comes to exponential complexity in growth of continually updated software.

 

So yes, it is a perfectly reasonable, sound approach to the MMORPG to say you cannot compare total gameplay value of two games when they've been launched 7 years apart.

Edited January 1, 2012 by NovusAnimus

[Qoojo]

I was really hoping for a fail car analogy. This thread disappoints.

[Nightrode]

I'm just ganna go ahead and poke holes in the OP because I'm bored.

 

 

1: Many movies are in fact incomplete when they go to theaters. Many scenes are cut out to make the movie shorter, which is then sold in extended editions for more money when put onto DvD/Bluray.

 

2: Many people buy cars without parts, including engines to work on them as a hobby.

 

I just wanted to point that out ^_^

 

Next, no MMO is EVER complete. There will always be bugs, and always more content to come until the game shuts down.

 

I believe this game has more than enough excuses to be incomplete or buggy. BW is new to the MMO scene. The fact that they went straight from RPGs to AAA MMOs is a daunting task they undertook. And I think they did quite well.

 

People need to understood this game wasn't made to be the next big MMO. BW didn't make the game with "Lets get 13 million subs and beat WoW" in mind. The game was created to continue the KOTOR story line. Not to beat every MMO out there.

 

SWTOR is meant for the Star Wars fans, the people who love the Star Wars story, universe, etc...

 

I'm guessing... (my opinion) on why BW made this game a MMO instead of an RPG is because:

 

1: They wanted to make money. Just like any sensible company. And MMOs can be a huge profit.

 

2: They wanted to bring KOTOR fans together. Which I believe they did by adding all the voice acting and such, successfully creating a good storyline.

 

 

Now, people need to understand they're working on patches. It's not like the devs are sitting around laughing at people's problems with the game. It's holiday season right now, BW employees have lives to and most are probably with family and friends. The release date was horrible, probably a ploy by EA to make more money. But the point is they're working on fixes, and that doesn't mean every bug will be fixed in the next 5 minutes. You all need to learn some patience and wait. Unsub if you're unhappy with the game's state and come back in a couple months.

 

I also want to add this on to what I said, since we essentially said the same thing, almost. As much as everybody, including myself, would love to see this game meet to the standards and expectations that MMOs such as WoW set, there's really no sense in getting all worked up about it if that doesn't meet the case. So many good features are already in the game, as well as some bad ones. However, I think they've done a damn good job already and their mission was well accomplished.