There are too many skills.

[canobeansPL]

I really like that there are quite a few abilities. No problem there. Sure, things are not going to work smoothly for quite a while yet - I'm not a very gifted player - but I much appreciate the challenge. Bring more, Bioware!

 

People hoping for no more new abilites? You crazy! I longed for new ones and wondered if I will have to somehow weave them in, or will they sadly go to the no-no land (like Full Auto and Blitz for my Vanguard). I'm also happy to have my medpack, my adrenal and two relics on the skillbar. So, if you aren't planning on any new skills, Bioware, gimme moar usable items!

 

Take cue from M1-4X, people: UNBRIDLED ENTHUSIASM!

[Kaellis]

The amount of abilities is sometime silly (creating very minor distinctions between certain skills, ala Pommel Strike and Opportune Strike), but I definitely think some common sense changes to the system would help. Allowing macros would solve all my problems a Jedi Guardian, but a stance bar and not having to reapply sprint on death all the time (making it remain until canceled, like a stance) would help a lot. Kind of mind boggling why they did not bother to change things like that pre-launch.

[Jarvarro]

Yeah, too many abilities. This will probably be the reason for me going back to other games. I really like it, but I can't be bothered spending so much time working out so many key bindings. Edited January 10, 2012 by Jarvarro

[xengist]

I like having lots to do personally. I hope they don't dumb it down at all.

[Strelsky]

I don't really find all this banter that relevant. As a Commando I still use half the combat-necessary keybinds I was previously used to from another game (which was around 50-60).

 

The point is, this game is new. We're not yet used to all the new stuff. Having 50 keybind is one thing, knowing which are the ones you don't really need to have on the nicely accessible R, T or F bind is another story.

With time we'll all find out that some abilities' usefuless is limited, thus [sarcasm] CTRL+P keybind shall fit them nicely [/sarcasm].

 

Also some abilites tend to replace another as they do the same function, just in a better way.

 

All in all I find it actually pretty balanced. It doesn't feel bloated, nor do I find myself having too little options of buttons to mash.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Strelsky

[Raani]

What feels awkward is the fact that you can't macro certain things which are meant to be used together.

 

If I want to use a CD to make my next heal ammo-free or instant, I need to press 2 keys (CD + heal). If I want both, I need to press 3 keys. If I want to use my trinket or an adrenal at the same time, I'm looking at pushing 4-5 keys. Being able to spider across your keyboard better than people with smaller hands isn't skill, I'm afraid. Skill lies in knowing what abilities and CDs to use at any given time to maximize effectiveness, and macros don't take away from that.

 

What bothers me the most, though, is the impact of ability delay on chaining abilities. That forces you to press your CD button, check if it activated, and then press your heal button. I got a new video card and it made things better for some abilities, but I still get occasional delay in combat.

[Velr]

There are just some skills that seem "stupid":

 

 

Some examples from the Imperial Agent (Operative):

 

 

Eviscrate (Needs you to stun/knockdown/whatever your enemy):

Does high DMG against weak enemies.

Does decent DMG against strong enemies.

Is not useable on Elites, Bosses and Players.

Seriously, just remove that from the game or make it actually useable against everything. It's just horrible to have a pure DMG-Skill that is not working on the targets you actually REALLY want it to work on. Who came up with such a retarded idea? From what I hear the Sith-Assassin has something like this too so someone seems to think such a skill is a good idea.

 

 

Acid-Blade (lvl 40 Talent in Concealment):

This is a weapon buff (Dot and Armorpierce) that does not activate the GCD and has no Cooldown.

WHY WOULD I EVER NOT USE THIS? Why is this not "attached" to the 2 skills it works with by default? With Macros this would be no problem, but I actually don't like macros... I feel most Macros are just written because a spell is badly designed (like stopcasting macros when using interrupts). Everything more is to much for me...

[BobaTed]

I like having lots to do personally. I hope they don't dumb it down at all.

There's a difference between dumbing things down vs. refocusing gameplay towards actual positioning, tactics, and situational awareness and away from muscle memory. You don't need a gazillion buttons to be smart.

 

Other games have managed to "wrap" multiple abilities into fewer key presses in different ways, e.g., combos (DCUO, the Warden class in LotRO), "preparatory" abilities (DDO skills that proc on the next attack), positional procs (STO "flanking" and archer fire in GW), etc. I also wouldn't mind a greater emphasis on toggles, passives, and "fire and forget" skills like in CoH.

 

For my part, I'm not really asking for fewer abilities (though many abilities could be wrapped together as situational procs); I'm asking for a UI implementation that actually takes advantage of some of the design elements that have been developed in the past 15 years.

[Rimca]

I didn't realise before but i actually found a solution to this threat :-)

 

I just use ability which I find the best suited for my playstyle, I don't use all abilities but I rather only have a few which I selected to make a good rotation.

 

There it is , just look at the skills and cooldown and effect and put on your bars only the one you like, but not all.

 

It seem logical since you get access to 3 talent tree which only work with a couple of skills.

 

Select the skills enhanced by your talent tree has priority and the other one you may use it or just forget about it.

 

Threat closed, thank you all

[choboon]

Yes, i like Aion's system of combos. I also like RIFT's macro system where you can layer in a few abilities in the same macro and thus saving keybind space. Things like reactive abilities and short cooldown.

 

Worst System ever. I Rift you could literally bind 10 abilities to a single key.

Certain classes could be played with 2 buttons and totally own.

 

Never....ever.....implement-......that.......crap....in.....swtor

 

I have all hotbars full. I have 2 Skills i do not use, ever. All others have their moments of glory. I like the number of skills we get. It always gives me incentive to improve.

Often i finish a fight and think about what i could have done better, had i reacted faster.

 

Less skills = boring faster

[choboon]

Being able to spider across your keyboard better than people with smaller hands isn't skill, I'm afraid. Skill lies in knowing what abilities and CDs to use at any given time to maximize effectiveness, and macros don't take away from that.

 

 

Actually beeing able to judge the situation and use the apprpriate ability is EXACTLY what skill entails.

If i can make a macro like

 

use slot 3

use slot 5

use after-block

use skill bla

use auto-attack

 

and it just tries them top to bottom and takes whatever is available, i will in theory always use the opportune abulity. To call that skill though is mindblowing.

[puddingpop]

I have an Operative and a Sorcerer and I personally like the amount of abilities in the game. Yes some are very situational and that I find is the beauty of it. Using that situational ability in a clutch can pull a victory out of a FUBAR. Go-Go key binds.

 

I think one of the big things they need to do is allow users to mod their UI (for so many reasons). Macros are OK but I disagree with the idea of allowing macros to function like they did in RIFT, they killed it for me. I still think Chloromancer was one of the most fun healing specs I've played.

Edited January 10, 2012 by puddingpop

[Kraivon]

Yeah I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the abilities too. Mainly for PvP. Very hard to stare at your CDs while fighting and trying to remember what keys you bound your skills to. It really forces you to pay attention to 10 things at the same time when I just want to enjoy the experience. Its as if I'm trying to learn how to play a new instrument. I'll admit I'm running out of patience.

[Literatii]

I like the way Guild Wars 2 is doing their skill system. You choose 10 total skills at any one time from your skill book. Some based on your weapon, some on your class, and a few based on race. Seems like they are trying to make each skill as useful as possible instead of just dumping a ton of situational abilities on players. I really wish more MMOs would go in that direction.

 

This is what I always liked about GW. It actually forces the game designer to put serious thought into abilities, because your bar is only so big.

[helgeandreNA]

Yeah, someone above said it best.

 

Never played a game before where I actually wanted to get no new abilities. I'm 44 right now and I have 2 new abilities I will get before 50 and trying to figure out how I'll actually fit them onto my razer.

 

Interesting that they pushed a naga out with this game that can't even handle the multitude of abilities the game and painful UI. I guess that's what happens when you take a mouse that was developed with one MMO in mind (WoW) and try to place it in a game that is light years behind it in regards to GUI.

 

I have razer Naga as well. And I can so far key-bind and do a lots of stuff with my mouse.

I am not lvl 50 and can see that I am most likely going to use 4 action bars that are in-game.

I use SHIFT + (1 to 0, +, \) , CTRL + (1 to 0, +, \) and ALT (1 to 0, +, \). I haven`t tried SHIFT + CTRL + (1 to 0, +, \) on my naga or keybord bind. But it might be to much key-bind for all of the skills, and if your like me you have 2-3 spots for stim/medpack/adrenaline. So yes its to much skills and abilities that is situation afflicted.

 

Why not add stance like Shien and the other like Shii-cho from in a drop down panel to free some action bar slot in a future patch BioWare?

Edited January 11, 2012 by helgeandreNA

[Zyllos]

Ya, having a limited hotkey bar reminds me of EQ1 spell casters. You had MANY spells but could only memorize 10 of them (or was it 8?).

 

I agree also with the GW2 statement, which is why I am pumped for this game. I just hope they are not focusing too much on the limited bar by only making a few skills per weapon/profession combination and force players to make a choice in a specific combination for what abilities to have readied.

[Tewnam]

A SWTOR example?

For an operative there's a button for damage >10m, a button for damage <10m, and another cooldown button for damage <1m, another cooldown positional button for damage <1m. That's 4 "keyboard mashing" buttons, and by default you only start with 10 mapped buttons!!!

 

Except that you're glossing over the fact that it means at >10m, you can use one skill that's pretty strong, <10m you can use one skill that's a bit weaker, <1m you can use two skills with separate cooldowns, and at <1m behind the target you can use three skills all with separate cooldowns.

 

That means if you deal 1.5X at >10m, then you can deal X at <10m, 2X at <1m, and 3X behind the target. They don't all have the same function and they all work together to control the amount of damage you can deal at various combat positions.

[gingerbill]

agree there are too many skills . It sounds a good thing in theory but its a little bit too many to deal with.

 

The amount of keybinds you need has gone over the top.

[PatDay]

I'll put my vote in for there being too many skills as well. I'm not a MMO newb who's afraid of buttons, but there's too many garbage abilities. I think most people that are saying things are fine either 1) play a stationary class mostly in PvP and/or 2) have a fancy mouse/keyboard (specifically the types that they can program macros into).

 

If you think the game perfect as is, I doubt you've tried playing a JK in PvP. Trying to get into melee position, use the correct skill and work towards the objective of the warzone all at the same time is a very complicated juggling act. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm not as effective as I could be if I was able to focus purely on tactics. It's so bad that I find PvP to be entirely painful (not to mention lag and skill delays...).

 

An example of a Jedi Knight garbage ability would be Sundering Strike. It's a focus generating ability like the basic Strike ability and better than Strike in all ways, but with a cool down time. Whenever Sundering Strike is ready, you use it. Requiring a player to have two skills hotkeyed doesn't make the game better. It doesn't require more intelligence to use properly. It just means as a player, I have to have two keys on my hotbar instead of one.

 

SWTOR needs macros or abilities consolidated or both. Personally, I liked Rifts and would enjoy that model of gameplay.

Edited January 11, 2012 by PatDay

[infantryelevenb]

Or change the awful UI. I have too many abilities and not enough real estate.

[RobNightfall]

Complaining for too many abilities is crazy. You can choose the ones you want and leave out the ones you don't quite simple.

 

Except that, especially in the case of the jedi knight and sith warrior, to be effective you MUST use all of your abilities. Even the highly situational ones, because sooner or later everything else will be on the cool down. There are too many abilities and combat is a bit clunky in this game. It would benefit from some streamlining. I don't want an NGE work-over where everything is stripped out, but some simplification would keep my eyes on the action more and the toolbar less.

[strattjw]

It's not that bad. You don't need to keybind abilities that are used only out of combat. The number of things need to use in combat aren't too overwhelming once you start to really learn your class. Even managing cooldowns isn't that hard with practice. After a while you start to develop an internal clock for when things go off cooldown. I hated how WoW tried to reduce things down to the 5-6 buttons you will ever need to push in combat mentality. Hopefully TOR will stay a skill based game.

[NightskyStar]

I recently notice i spend more time looking at my Action bar then at the excual game during combat.

What lead to this was the lack of visual effects on the screen to support the vast numbers of abilities in the game.

 

A few things that would help:

- Rage/Force/Heat/Energy/Focus/Ammo bar under nameplate. -This would really help me see when to use which abilities.

- indicators for reactivation skills to be ready for use ( a small Riposte/Retaliation icon popin up next to my character, indicating that this skill is ready to be used) - Because If i don't constantly look at my action bar i have no way of knowing when to use this abilitties.

[Arrys]

I've come to really like the number and need to use my abilities on my operative. To know them and understand when they should be used. Now I do think some improvements could be made.

 

Rift's macro system sucked and removed all skill from the game, however popping up the icon of an ability when it's condition was met would be a nice feature to see(lets you focus on the game not check keybars), as would an icon for cooldown abilities upon the cooldown being reset togglable in the interface. looking down to see if I can stun again etc isn't ideal. Or to play off the giggle for TA on key abilities add a sound que or let the player bind a sound que but that would get quite distracting for other players if they couldn't turn off others que. Immersion wise it is the better solution than a square icon.

 

I'ld love the ability to show an extra bar right and/or left to go with the bottom bar.

 

Now to adjust to my operative and the fact I needed all my healing and combat and CC etc accessible and functional I did adapt keysettings from previous MMO's. Not alot more abilities but certainly alot more I use regularly.

 

Main change was switching movement from wasd to esdf opens up a bit more of the numbers to quick reach and adds a set of keys to the left of your movement hand that isn't tab cap lock shift ctrl and is therefore highly usable, get about +5 high value keys from it. Being a melee twitch positional fighter a naga got added as well. But other than controlling the companion I have no need to hit a change key and 100% of what I use is 1 keypress away vs 2.

 

Keep it as is add easier knowledge gain of cooldown reset and conditional ability condition being met. Stealth bar a plus extra permanent bars desirable at least 1. I do run with my companions bar unexpanded as I can't have it overlaying where I have icons hotkeyed.

[Dabrixmgp]

Since when does the number of abilities used = skill. If anything it makes you play worse because you have far too much stuff to juggle. Id rather use 3-4 skills and be super effective at what I do than use 12 and be mediocre because my DPS tanked when I forgot to use something.