Why does everyone hate the prequals????

[PeepsMcJuggs]

I suspect if episodes 1,2 and 3 came out first and 4,5 and 6 were the new ones, people would be hating them instead.

 

I like them all, but after watching the fight scenes in the prequels (yoda, maul, etc.), the sword play in the older movies is laughably embarrassing. Watching Obi-wan and Darth Vader stand toe to toe and bang sabers together in an awkward, simplistic way after seeing yoda bounce around, or any other fight sceen from the preqs, was painful.

 

If Episode 1 came out first, it would never have gained mainstream acceptance, and the Star Wars franchise would never have become a franchise.

[adamaj]

If Episode 1 came out first, it would never have gained mainstream acceptance, and the Star Wars franchise would never have become a franchise.

 

And you know this, how? What a ridiculous thing to say, lol.

Edited January 5, 2012 by adamaj

[PeepsMcJuggs]

And you know this, how?

 

Oh I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to respond to your opinion with my opinion?

 

The bottom line is, even if you ignore every element of Star Wars that ever existed, The Phantom Menace was a mediocre sci-fi film at best. It fails to stand on its own, because without background knowledge of Episodes IV-VI, it's a convoluted mess of characters, concepts and locations with little explanation. Things like thanking a droid for fixing the ship seem even more idiotic without the background knowledge of Artoo's significance. The pacing is off. It would've been panned as a flashy, effects-driven piece with little substance, and anyone beyond the extreme nerds would watch it once and never watch it again.

 

Episodes IV-VI gained a mainstream following. For over a decade, being obsessed with Star Wars was considered normal, even cool. Star Wars was everywhere. Episode I would be about as popular as Michael Bay's Transformers movies, which has grown little beyond the films, and is generally derided by the moviegoing public.

[adamaj]

Oh I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to respond to your opinion with my opinion?

 

The bottom line is, even if you ignore every element of Star Wars that ever existed, The Phantom Menace was a mediocre sci-fi film at best. It fails to stand on its own, because without background knowledge of Episodes IV-VI, it's a convoluted mess of characters, concepts and locations with little explanation. Things like thanking a droid for fixing the ship seem even more idiotic without the background knowledge of Artoo's significance. The pacing is off. It would've been panned as a flashy, effects-driven piece with little substance, and anyone beyond the extreme nerds would watch it once and never watch it again.

 

Episodes IV-VI gained a mainstream following. For over a decade, being obsessed with Star Wars was considered normal, even cool. Star Wars was everywhere. Episode I would be about as popular as Michael Bay's Transformers movies, which has grown little beyond the films, and is generally derided by the moviegoing public.

 

Lol, I said I "suspect", you stated your opinion as fact. You missed my point anyway. I was simply saying that someone may have a biased point of view when they've been living with these movies (episodes 4-6) for decades. And if episodes 1-3 had came out first, and you would have had decades with them, then it's entirely possible you would worship those movies and bash 4-6 instead.

 

So, again, I'll ask; how do you KNOW your original statement is true?

[Ghrog]

I think one of the big problems with episodes 1 and 2 was the lack of flow in both movies. The origional trilogy had a smooth flow and transition and a fairly straight forward path.

 

People say that episode 1 and 2 didn't have a plot... I don't quite see that, I think their issue isn't the lack of a plot, but rather the overabundance of plots. Each film tried to do to much and shoot off in several different directions at the same time and ended up not giving a memorable trip in any direction.

 

Episode 1 and 2 simply put, lacked focus. That focus was there in episodes 3, 4, 5, and 6. I really do consider 3 to be an awesome piece of work, sadly so many have gotten so jaded by episodes 1 and 2 that 3 gets panned oftentimes on the basis of their shortcomings.

 

That said, the fight on Mustafar and the Jango/Obi Wan fight are 2 of my favorite action moments in the entire series of films. I still say though, that most of my favorite moments and favorite characters come from the origional trilogy.

 

The prequils IMHO had nothing that really matched the scene where Yoda lifts the X-Wing on to dry land, Luke says he doesn't believe it, and then Yodas reply, "That is why you failed." Or even the trench run of A New Hope when Luke turns off the targeting computer.

[Jalakins]

Two words: Hayden Christensen.

 

Emo, whiny, and just an awful actor. Oh, and the prequel movies were just bad. The plot and story was fine, but the actual production was boring.

[Msbungle]

Because the choice of actors for both versions of Anakin Skywalker in eps 1-3 was horrible... as were their acting skills. Edited January 5, 2012 by Msbungle

[SeanC]

Am I the only one who feels that the amount of corniness, poor writing, stiffed acting persists in all six movies? The only thing that seperates the two, is that the story in the OT flows much better and doesn't jump around as much.

 

GL was trying to explain to much during the prequels that it either felt half assed, made more plot holes than necessary, lessen the impact that was created by the OT, or he just tried to get it done to complete the saga.

 

I just recently watched episode one and two, and have to say that episode one was a pretty decent movie, an actually a good movie if you fast forward through most of the stuff dealing with ani with his pod racing and at wattos shop, and muting when jar-jar spoke.

 

Episode 2 is pretty horrible through out. The last 45 mins of the movie where it actually gets entertaining. The first half of the whole movie is just so slow and most of it just fluff. The love story between ani and padme is so awkard, and the dialogue between the two is just so bad, that I can't really blame the actors that much since GL sucks at writing dialogue. You can put two academy award winners in there and it still would suck. Hayden did do a pretty bad job with ani, but blame it on gl for that. If he wanted anikan to be a whiny jedi, hayden pretty much deliver that performance.

 

My main problem with episode 2 is when dooku told obi-wan that the republic is under the control of a sith lord, and the jedi pretty much ignore that for no reason at all. You would think if you got that information that you would pretty much pay attention to anyone who was a significant player in the senate/republic.

[javorizer]

Many, MANY things are wrong with the prequels.

The main one is that the story is not really worth telling.

 

Let's take the original movies; They are about a band of rebels defeating a superior force, and end with the return of the jedi, seeing Luke as the chosen one, restoring peace to the galaxy (expanded universe not taken into account)

 

Now, take the prequels... What are they telling that is so important? The fall of Anakin to the dark side? The prequels dont even seem like they are about Anakin, as he does nothing of import, and nothing that could not have been accomplished by anyone, or anything else.

 

I dare you to name ONE thing (other than being the father to Luke and Leia) that Anakin did that made him so great. The whole clone wars deal was staged. The seperatists were never going to win, the war was a ploy for Palpatine to get power. WIth or without Anakin this would have happened.

 

Also, the lightsaber fights, although awesome, at closer inspection are just.. so damn choreographed.. Yeah they look great, but there are a million times that obi could have killed maul outright, yet didn't. Best fight to date is in ROTJ imo, especially near the end where Luke loses his temper <3

 

 

ALSO! Redlettermedia = Nuff said. Sorry for the rant, the prequels just ***** my childhood.

[ApesAmongUs]

To answer the OP question, because the prequels are morally, thematically, and in terms of character development, completely vacant.

 

While the original trilogy present a simplistic worldview, the prequels replace it with something either lacking completely at best or repugnant at worst.

 

For a simple example, let us look at the climactic final space battle scenes in New Hope and Phantom Menace.

 

In New Hope, Luke was basically a loser. He had some talents, but no drive. He wanted to go do something more important, but it didn't take much argument from Uncle Owen to make him give up. He was also a whiner. He wanted opportunities given to him instead of doing something about it.

 

Obiwan helped him develop for the limited time he was there. In these movies, the Force is a nice amalgam of self confidence and willpower. Luke latches onto Obiwan and only leaves Tatooine because he's forced to, and then Obiwan has to die to force Luke to make his own own choices.

 

He enters the final battle as a mook, redshirt, wing man. The opportunity is again forced upon him to do something important and he fails. But he insists on trying again. And he doesn't rely on the targeting system, simply on himself.

 

Now, in a complex movie for adults, I might question the philosophy of "screw machines, rely on yourself", but as a core idea in a children's story it's pretty basic.

 

But you can look further. Why did he get the chance to take that shot? Well, that was because of Han. Han had important, "appease the Hutt and don't die" business to take care of and he had left to go do that. He was a nice guy, but ultimately selfish. Even if he liked Luke (as per their emotionally stunted, manly goodbyes), it wasn't worth the cost to himself.

 

When he returns, he is sacrificing his own well-being for that of his friend - even though he doesn't believe in the same ideals as Luke or Leia and considers the attack on the death star a suicide mission (and sacrifice he does, given the fact that if he had paid Jabba then, he would never have been a carbonite wall hanging.)

 

Again, these aren't complex ideas, but for a simple tale of heroism, belief in one's self and sacrifice for the good of your friends aren't a bad place to start.

 

Now look at Phantom Menace. Little Anakin helps the Jedi get off the planet and destroys the droid ship - that's heroic right?

 

Well, not really. Heroism requires some level of understanding and risk. Anakin didn't race the death traps because that was the only way to help the jedi or because he wanted to help any one. Racing was something he wanted to do anyway, because Wheee, Yeaaaa, Giggle, I'm a tempestuous kid.

 

And then why does he fly up to blow up the droid ship? Well, primarily because the smart people tell him not to. There is no reason for anyone to think he should be in the ship. He has no knowledge of how to fly it. And he should have died in a fiery ball. But, of course, his magical blood faeries save the day.

 

He doesn't succeed because of passion or discipline or love or any noble trait - he tried because he's a brat and doesn't listen to people who know better than him and succeeds because his Jesus Nanites are over 9000.

 

And it keeps up throughout the movies.

 

Obiwan goes from a man who failed Anakin/Vader because of his own vanity in not seeking help with his training to a moron surrounded by even bigger morons (any of whom had ample opportunity to train Anakin at any point) who fail Anakin/Vader because they adhere to an idiot's philosophy that would drive any sane person to end their retard organization.

 

Luke/Leia's mother goes from an ambiguous loving figure that Leia can reminisce about and Luke could regret not knowing, to being White Trash Mother-of-the-Year who marries and gets impregnated by someone she knows to be a psychotic murderer of men, women, and children (Tuskan variety) and then dies during a medically stable childbirth because no one loves her (tear) - and pales in comparison to Leia's adopted mother who apparently demonstrated genuine love instead of the corrupt, pathetic version that Padme/Anakin have.

 

The characters in the prequels are across the board terrible and pathetic people who don't deserve to be heroes and luckily never do anything to warrant that label.

 

They are not only terrible movies, but I weep for any society where children grow up with these movies and think these are characters to emulate.

Edited January 5, 2012 by ApesAmongUs

[KassKass]

erm... They are ABOMINATIONS and an INSULT too the ONLY THREE MOvies ever made in STAR WARS. Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

 

End of Debate !

 

- Kass -

[PeepsMcJuggs]

Episode 2 is pretty horrible through out. The last 45 mins of the movie where it actually gets entertaining. The first half of the whole movie is just so slow and most of it just fluff. The love story between ani and padme is so awkard, and the dialogue between the two is just so bad, that I can't really blame the actors that much since GL sucks at writing dialogue. You can put two academy award winners in there and it still would suck. Hayden did do a pretty bad job with ani, but blame it on gl for that. If he wanted anikan to be a whiny jedi, hayden pretty much deliver that performance.

 

Yeah, this is a pretty solid fact. Harrison Ford has been quoted as telling Lucas "You can write this stuff, George, but you sure as hell can't say it." (Or something close to that...nobody can seem to agree to what the exact quote was). Lucas has always sucked at dialogue, but that's why during the original films, he had a lot of people looking over his shoulder to tell him when he was being a complete moron (such as Han Solo saying "I love you too"). During the prequels, he was often writing the scripts as they were filming, and nobody questioned him.

 

Of course, it's our own damn fault. You spend twenty years trying to convince a guy he's a filmmaking god, he's probably going to start believing it.

Edited January 5, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs

[LordMerrick]

If you had an idiotic sense of humor maybe.

 

Watching C-3PO's head getting dragged through the dirt in the original series while him saying "this is such a drag" isn't funny, at all.

 

 

 

Totally! I didn't find CPO funny at all.....and his tiresome display of emotions was an annoying and unwelcome distraction.

 

This was a movie set into the future so are we to believe he was given an artificial intelligence designed to actually experience emotions like a certain other popular sci-fi movie we all know or was it just a pointless and useless source of amusement for the patrons of protocol driods?

 

ANH actually spent like 20 boring minutes focusing on the fate of these two droids before Luke was even introduced, and we are supposed to care about the adventures of these two droids droids because why??

[LordMerrick]

And then there's some people that prefer their movies to have entertainment value beyond pretty effects, Michael Bay.

 

Ironically Michael Bay did a fantastic job directing Miami Vice. I don't understand how the same guy managed to produce transformers

[LordMerrick]

Am I the only one who feels that the amount of corniness, poor writing, stiffed acting persists in all six movies? The only thing that seperates the two, is that the story in the OT flows much better and doesn't jump around as much.

 

 

I'm right there with you. I defend the prequels not because I think they are great movies, (I recognize their flaws), but because the majority of their deriders hold the original trilogy up on a golden pedestal like the shining example of perfect film-making. The original trilogy was as equally flawed as the prequel, but for completely different reasons.

 

The script was great, but the acting was TERRIBLE. The guy playing Luke completely bombed his role so bad it was sickening. It was like they grabbed the first janitor that walked by and jammed the script into his hands. Several long stretches of the original trilogy were dreadfully boring.

 

Chewbacca's Howling was painful, terribly excessive and dubbed louder than everything else. His moaning was extensively long, repetitive and irritating. C3PO was annoying - not fuuny. He was just as bad as Jar Jar. Teddy bears saved the galaxy? Really? Luke yelling "noooo!" when he learned that vader was his fadda was so horribly cheesy it completely ruined the moment and let all the tension out of it. Suddenly I didn't CARE that Vader was his father because all i could think was how weak Luke's response was (and how fake the actor's iteration of that response was). I'm supposed to believe this is the guy that can defeat Vadar? When he stops in the middle of dueling for his life.....so that he can take a minute to cry?!? Like Vadar should hand him a tissue before killing him.

 

Like someone pointed out the sword fight between Vader and Obi-wan was just embarrassing. Two old men were rubbing flourescent broomsticks together in slow motion. At any moment I thought they might start making out. Sure, it had built up tension and the focus was on those two with no background distractions but it was clear they budgeted ZERO dollars for fight choreography.

 

Say what you want about the prequels....for example i totally agree movie 2 had the worst romance dialogue of all time and that one thing alone made me hate the movie but at least the sword fights were cool! I mean come on, light sabers are one of the biggest draws to star wars! The best weapon in the galaxy should only be wielded by the most impressive and competant warriors

Edited January 5, 2012 by LordMerrick

[LordMerrick]

Two words: Hayden Christensen.

 

Emo, whiny, and just an awful actor. Oh, and the prequel movies were just bad. The plot and story was fine, but the actual production was boring.

 

Actually Hayden Christensen did a terrific job....UNLIKE Luke Skywalker, Hayden displayed all the emotions exactly as he was told to do.....and he made you BELIEVE his emotions were real. It was the script he was reading from that was so awful. He was told to play a whiney snot nosed little brat and that's exactly what he did, and he did it well. Blame the writers not the actor.

[Velandia]

I can appreciate both trilogies for what they are - mystifying and awesome to the generation for which they were intended. Lucas didn't make I-III to cater to those that were children and young adults when IV-VI came out. Lucas made I-III to captivate and inspire a whole new generation.

 

I happen to have grown up between the trilogies and love both - Return of the Jedi being my favorite.

[ExarchCathedra]

Because they were terrible movies.

 

A ten minute goddamn swordfight with no dialogue; and I'm not looking for "Mercutio's soul is but a little way above our heads, staying for thine to keep him company, either thou, or I, or both, must go with him", I just want some "now I am the master", "if you strike me down I shall grow more powerful" Instead we get nothing because the movie doesn't actually have any characters who might have anything to say to each other.

 

Ewen McGregor shows up on the Send in the Clones planet with no idea what's going on, to be greeted as an ally because he's Jedi; great, I think, we'll have some drama where he tries to get them to tell him what's going on without revealing that he doesn't know already, finally some real story; instead he says right away that he doesn't know what's going on, and they go oh, and proceed to tell him, for all the sense it made.

 

I've blocked the third one out completely, so that's probably for the best.

 

Midi-chlorians. Liam Neeson sitting in the background trying not to look too bored with nothing to do while children and muppets save the day. Natalie Portman trying desperately to find something to do with an ostensible love scene with a teenager who can't act when Lucas has written out anything resembling hormones because he's writing for 8 year-olds.

 

Oh Cthulhu, it's all coming back to me.

[Tubeard]

erm... They are ABOMINATIONS and an INSULT too the ONLY THREE MOvies ever made in STAR WARS. Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

 

End of Debate !

 

- Kass -

 

Nice minimal misspelling combined with arrogance to draw you in.

 

I almost fell for it

[ApesAmongUs]

This was a movie set into the future

Read the first three words of the crawl and say that again.

 

ANH actually spent like 20 boring minutes focusing on the fate of these two droids before Luke was even introduced, and we are supposed to care about the adventures of these two droids droids because why??

Because they are on the run and have important information that the obvious bad guy wants.

 

This is helped by actually giving them personalities - C3PO is a coward to highlight the bravery of R2D2. Without C3PO, we could just assume that R2D2 was simply a machine following orders from Leia instead of being an individual making choices because he's one of the good guys.

Edited January 5, 2012 by ApesAmongUs

[LordMerrick]

Read the first three words of the crawl and say that again.

 

 

Because they are on the run and have important information that the obvious bad guy wants.

 

This is helped by actually giving them personalities - C3PO is a coward to highlight the bravery of R2D2. Without C3PO, we could just assume that R2D2 was simply a machine following orders from Leia instead of being an individual making choices because he's one of the good guys.

 

 

Took a bit of a shortcut there so please allow me a correction. The technology of this movie is VERY advanced and futuristic in comparison to the environment in which its viewing audience finds itself.

 

 

I think this may possibly be a generational thing. I suspect in the generation immediately prior to mine, and even during my early years, the world was split into good guys and bad guys. I don't view the world that way. Good and bad are a point of view, and life, along with the world we live in, is colored in infinite shades of grey. Remember the lesson in Dark Knight? "I lost many conceptions i had about right and wrong"

 

See I *got* that CPO was a coward. But I didn't get the message that R2 is courageous. CPO was PROGRAMMED to be a coward. I dont see how these terms can even be applied to a droid anyway! That's part of whats annoying about CPO. And I dont understand why we should care about a droid having courage in the first place? Whats wrong with a robot just doing what its told??

 

While watching the movie my interpretation went like this: CPO has an extremely limited program and functionality - he is a language translator and useless for anything else. Possibly might serve as a really, really very lame and sad companion droid cuz I have no other explanation for his apparent emotions other than to make the ambassador he translates for to feel more comfortable around him. He was designed to give the appearance of being extremely docile and subservient considering his humanoid form which some might find unnerving. He is designed to accept any and all command given to it by humans.

 

R2 was a Utility driod - designed to be very useful in numerous different applications and thus has much more advanced programming....along with tiered safety features that cause it to only obey its actual master for certain commands deemed of high priority....and obeying anyone for small and insignificant commands.

 

Maybe that ruined part of the movie for me i dunno. Another part of what was annoying about CPO is that what is he doing there?!?? He has no place or function in a space battle, what are they dragging him around for? To translate the language of dead storm troopers?

 

p.s. I just realized if they had put a gun in his hands then he would have been awesome, even if he was a terrible shot.

Edited January 5, 2012 by LordMerrick

[Alcarinn]

Well original trilogy had this epic feel from ''old'' movies...

 

I was a kid i watched those 3 original movies hundreds of times kept renting it every weekend together with Jurassic Park 1...

 

 

I thought 1st of prequels was indeed ''pretty'' boring...

 

2nd and 3rd were ok... the thing i missed the most was more time to other Jedi masters who were later shown to die on order 66... i thought all of them were extremely cool...

 

overall original trilogy 9/10 prequel trilogy 7,5/10 and most rating goes from epic yoda fight from end of 2nd and 3rd... first is meh for me.

[ApesAmongUs]

See I *got* that CPO was a coward. But I didn't get the message that R2 is courageous. CPO was PROGRAMMED to be a coward. I dont see how these terms can even be applied to a droid anyway! That's part of whats annoying about CPO. And I dont understand why we should care about a droid having courage in the first place? Whats wrong with a robot just doing what its told??

The problem here is that you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Star Wars is a science fiction movie.

 

It's not. Even GL has never claimed it to be anything other than science fantasy. It's a pastiche of samurai movies and westerns and a hint of WWII war movies, but not a hint of sci-fi to be seen anywhere in terms of plot, theme, or storytelling devices.

 

And as a fantasy movie, C3PO has his personality for the exact same reason that Donkey in Shrek is an annoying ******* instead of the more standard variety grass eating load hauling *******. Because in Star Wars, droids aren't "things". They are people and can have personalities. They feel pain when tortured and feel fear. If you need a reason for him being cowardly and fidgety, then it's because the demon animating that particular golem is cowardly and fidgety.

 

He's the way he is because GL needed a character with that personality - the same reason Chewbacca has his personality or Leia has hers.

 

This is the same reason people complain about the tech not advancing between TOR and the Yavin years. Of course it doesn't. That's a fantasy trope. In the olden days, when the gods of the Glerfluckle roamed the land, magic was strong and the ancients created many artifacts unknown in modern days.

[LordMerrick]

Maybe if someone explained that to me as a kid I would have seen Star Wars in a totally different light. I was a very analytical kid.....I thought it was totally stupid they were torturing driods in jabba's palace and assumed that we were supposed to conclude that android technology is so far advanced that droids are programmed to experience feelings and can be convinced they are actually "suffering".

 

You know like the whole Ghost in the Machine.

 

Maybe if i watch it again with a different mindset I'll have a totally different experience. Kinda feel dumb now

[LordMerrick]

Couple things I wanna say to various people. "Jesus nanites"? I laughed my freakin arse off. Awesomeness.

 

I agree it was totally stupid that anakin blew up the droid ship. I wrote it off with the following explanation: since it was a child with no training and no plan and no idea what he was doing he had a totally open mind and with a high level of jesus nanites the force was able to guide his actions. Still dumb but at least there was an explanation.

 

 

 

redlettermedia was a very funny interview and spot on about movie mechanics and so forth but he was also wrong about half the stuff he pointed out. Most of his "plot holes" were actually things that just completely escaped his attention. I wrote the answers to several of his sarcastic questions, showing that his questions do not constitute proof of plot holes but rather show his lack of understanding. But I posted it in a different thread.

 

 

 

"Jango was the warrior's warrior and got killed by a man with a glowing stick"

 

Maybe the effort of this game to make all characters equal gave you some false expectations....but how could you really think a bounty hunter is going to outdo one of the top Jedi masters? This is a dude that can block bullets, see the future, telekinetic power, abnormally high reflexes and a blade that cuts through anything and everything with ease. He's practically baby superman.

 

Jango is awesome and my second favorite character but his little pistol could never make him equal to a jedi master. Its just logical sense. Same with Han Solo

Edited January 5, 2012 by LordMerrick