Heat Blast.... am I missing something?

[Ebemidej]

Seriously? am I missing something? it just seems so lack luster the damage on its meh at best, short range (yes i know were mostly short ranged) and the heat discharges isn't much...

 

Then I hear my buddies talk about their top skill tree ability and there a ton better, so seriously... wth am I missing about this ability?

[brazthemad]

You're not missing anything. It's a trash ability. Better to hybrid into pyro for the 30% armor penetration rail shot that vents 8 heat and costs nothing.

[Ebemidej]

im full tank so that wouldn't work to well for me heh

[anwg]

You're not missing anything. It's a trash ability. Better to hybrid into pyro for the 30% armor penetration rail shot that vents 8 heat and costs nothing.

 

That talent requires you to use combustible gas cylinder, it's horrible for a tank.

[brazthemad]

That talent requires you to use combustible gas cylinder, it's horrible for a tank.

 

procs off of incendiary missile while you're running IGC, champ.

[Randomness]

It's free damage that reduces your heat level.

 

Also, 50% of the time you shield (32% of the time at least with just shield tech)... you vent heat. So, 16% of the time when you take damage, you vent. That's the real shiny talent, imo.

[chainsawsamurai]

It's free damage that reduces your heat level.

 

Also, 50% of the time you shield (32% of the time at least with just shield tech)... you vent heat. So, 16% of the time when you take damage, you vent. That's the real shiny talent, imo.

 

I agree that venting on shield is a nice talent.

 

Heat Blast is godawful though. The other poster is right, specing hybrid Pyro will net you such a ridiculous amount more single target threat AND heat venting that it blows a full Shieldtech spec out of the water.

 

You will be tanking a boss, pressing abilities every single global cooldown, and be worried about bottoming out on heat. You will be capable of going over 40 heat without a care in the world because it is so easy to vent it off. You wont worry in the slightest about using Rapid Shot or Vent Heat until you are at 60-70 heat.

 

This is all while firing off Rocket Punches every 4-5 seconds, Rail Shots every 4-5 seconds, and Flame Bursts every time you're in range and not using a cooldown or utility ability.

 

Heat Blast is awful. The extra heat accounts for ~.5 heat/sec so it is only really useful if you go past the first gate (40 heat) and need to drop back down.

 

Other than that it is .5 heat/sec that overcomplicates your rotation. Heat = Threat so in order to maximize this talents effectiveness (and the effectiveness of all the other worthless filler you had to get in ST by not going ST/Pyro) you need to use this ability absolutely every single time it comes off of cooldown AND have more than 13 Heat in your system when you use it.

 

One more thing to worry about in a class where you are already watching the Boss, watching your hotbars (because the Flytext doesn't do anything useful like alert you to procs), and now you have to monitor your heat more closely for maximum effectiveness.

 

All of that hassle, all of that craptastic damage, just so you can do less Threat/sec, have less heat venting, and worse PvP damage than an ST/Pyro hybrid.

 

GG Heatblast. If you haven't tried the ST/Pyro build yet, you are doing yourself a disservice. Pay for the damn respec. Go fight some Strongs/Elites to get used to the rotation change (it is VERY fast paced, even compared to ST which is already fairly active), then do some PvP or tanking with it.

 

I'm fairly positive you wont go back full Shieldtech, if you do then you deserve what you've done to yourself.

Edited December 31, 2011 by chainsawsamurai

[Ogrezilla]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRMrdRboMZZbIbbdh.1

 

something like that?

[Kyuubil]

10% shield chance is kind of..a bit survivability hit isn't it?

[Ebemidej]

10% shield chance is kind of..a bit survivability hit isn't it?

 

that's my main concern. I'd love to do more damage/threat but if I'm taking a big hit to my survivability... is it really worth it?

 

and while minor, it irks me having to waste 3 points in Superheated Gas

Edited December 31, 2011 by Ebemidej

[Elicas]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRMrdRboMZZbIbbdh.1

 

something like that?

 

Take the two points from No Escape and put them into Ion Screen. Then it becomes a servicable spec. Without parsers and a combat log it's impossible to really tell, but it always felt like we took too much of a hit to our survivability in this spec. Time of course, will tell.

[anwg]

procs off of incendiary missile while you're running IGC, champ.

 

So you pick up filler talents like superheated gas (3 points), to vent 8 heat on an ability on 15 second cooldown ability, after using an ability that costs 25 heat, while giving up points in empowered tech?

[Ebemidej]

So you pick up filler talents like superheated gas (3 points), to vent 8 heat on an ability on 15 second cooldown ability, after using an ability that costs 25 heat, while giving up points in empowered tech?

 

your forgetting the cool down finisher aspect from pyro will make it constantly proc

Edited December 31, 2011 by Ebemidej

[Ebemidej]

Next time I'm at the fleet I'l give the spec a try, but I seriously hate dropping one of the best meat shield skills from the tanking tree

[Kyuubil]

Take the two points from No Escape and put them into Ion Screen. Then it becomes a servicable spec. Without parsers and a combat log it's impossible to really tell, but it always felt like we took too much of a hit to our survivability in this spec. Time of course, will tell.

 

That was my thought -- 10% shield chance is a lot more than it looks -- Shadow/assassin tanking is based around a 15% shielding buff (8 charges, 12 second cd) -- we have 12 % effectively in ou tree.)

 

Also have to remember high end shields are 20% base shield chance.. so, big difference there.

[anwg]

your forgetting the cool down finisher aspect from pyro will make it constantly proc

 

But then you'd give up even more points in Shield Tech. Is your goal PvP or PvE? I suppose it's all right for a hybrid tank/dps/pvp build, but I can't see it for tanking only.

[Ebemidej]

But then you'd give up even more points in Shield Tech. Is your goal PvP or PvE? I suppose it's all right for a hybrid tank/dps/pvp build, but I can't see it for tanking only.

 

you don't have to give up any more points, that's how that spec they made works, I'm not stepping in to defend this spec as I've never used it, but at least look it over before you assume stuff about it o.O

[anwg]

you don't have to give up any more points, that's how that spec they made works, I'm not stepping in to defend this spec as I've never used it, but at least look it over before you assume stuff about it o.O

 

I wasn't talking about that 23/0/18 build someone else linked.

[theangryllama]

Its more there is nothing better. For those saying the pyro hybrid build the fact is to gain that 30% rail shot pen and heat venting your giving up 6% fire crit, 60% rail shot pen, 8% IGC damage and 2% overall damage reduction in order to get it (as opposed to http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdorogzZMsbZb.1) ... or your dipping into less points in empowered tech to still get some of them. Either way heat blast is really just icing on the cake because you really have no where better to put that point or 2 and still pick up the maximum amount of survivability talents.

Soloing and pvping as a tank however certainly no reason to go for heat blast instead of alternatives

Edited December 31, 2011 by theangryllama

[SneetoBoss]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0RrdorRgzZMcbZ0c.1

 

The above spec is what I think is by far the best tank spec available. You can remove oilslick if you prefer and put it into steely resolve, the rocket speed boost offtalent can also be readjusted if you desire.

 

That is the spec I've tanked all HM's and OPs thus far. Hybrid spec is pretty bad, losing 10% shield is horrrrrrrrendous to your mitigation. BH are primarily a shield class, that talent boosts our #1 stat after endurance.

[Ebemidej]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0RrdorRgzZMcbZ0c.1

 

The above spec is what I think is by far the best tank spec available. You can remove oilslick if you prefer and put it into steely resolve, the rocket speed boost offtalent can also be readjusted if you desire.

 

That is the spec I've tanked all HM's and OPs thus far. Hybrid spec is pretty bad, losing 10% shield is horrrrrrrrendous to your mitigation. BH are primarily a shield class, that talent boosts our #1 stat after endurance.

 

LOL that's pretty much a mirror image of my spec, cept I didn't get the rocket sprint opted for the grapple root

[Ashikuro]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0RrdorRgzZMcbZ0c.1

 

The above spec is what I think is by far the best tank spec available. You can remove oilslick if you prefer and put it into steely resolve, the rocket speed boost offtalent can also be readjusted if you desire.

 

That is the spec I've tanked all HM's and OPs thus far. Hybrid spec is pretty bad, losing 10% shield is horrrrrrrrendous to your mitigation. BH are primarily a shield class, that talent boosts our #1 stat after endurance.

 

Yup, this is the cookie cutter tank spec for sure... Except jet speed. I used those 2 pts for +6% Aim, but I know a lot of others prefer the +6% Rail Shot. I like the Aim for boosting AoE threat.

 

I haven't tanked any Ops yet though. Is there a reason you're taking Jet Speed? 4 seconds of minor speed seems pretty useless.

[Saggins]

Heat blast solves most heat problems in a static single target rotation. In conjunction with 2/2 Shield Vents it is huge. Edited December 31, 2011 by Saggins

[chainsawsamurai]

Take a good long look at the synergy between Heat Vents, Superheated Rail, Prototype Particle Accelerator, and Flame Shield.

 

Is losing 10% shield a big deal? Sort of, but not really as big of a deal as everyone wants to make it out to be. A much bigger hoopla should be made over losing out on Power Armor in Adv Proto as it is flat mitigation on every hit that connects rather than something you're rolling a dice for.

 

What you gain is monumental. If you can't look at the talents I listed and realize that the damage (and thus threat) will be exponentially better then you're beyond hope to be convinced anyway.

 

If you can't look at the listed talents, throw in Gyroscopic Alignment Jets, and realize that your heat in certain fights will be nigh-bottomless then I don't know what to say. During the worst of times, you might have to use Rapid Shots, but you will never wait an entire 16 seconds for Rail Shot. That's worst case scenario. Best case scenario you are mashing buttons nonstop and worried about hitting 0 Heat.

 

You're losing 10% mitigation to nearly double your threat/damage and make fights end much faster.

 

If you are in normals then this isn't even a conversation we should be having, you could tank them as a full DPS spec and your healer will still likely be bored and throwing Lightning Bolts so he has something to do.

 

For tougher content, if your gear is even remotely good enough to tank it in the first place then you are trading a bit of mitigation for a much shorter fight. As a Powertech you already have the chops to tank this stuff, so a shorter fight means there is less probability that something just goes wrong. Healers hit the wrong buttons, people lose track of environmental hazards and die, AoE damage adds up and you lose someone.

 

Boss fights are battles of attrition. The only tanks that die solely dude to insurmountable onslaught are ones without the gear to be there in the first place. More often tanks die/fail due to Enrage timers, and the silly little mistakes I mentioned all adding up to catastrophic failure. Having the capability to make these fights significantly shorter swings them heavily in your favor.

 

Furthermore you will never have the mitigation of a Jugg/Assassin. Period. Their cooldowns and abilities are simply too good while we're falling back on crap like 10% shield talents to make up the difference. Oil Slick is flat out garbage (take it anyway, Shieldtechs are in a position where even garbage helps), Energy Shield is sub par compared to what Jugs/Sins have, and Kolto Overload doesn't help nearly as much as Dark Ward, Dark Charge healing, or Sonic Barrier over the course of a protracted fight.

 

What you can do is have the best single target threat output in the game (an area Juggs will smoke a standard ST at). What you can do is give up your resource woes and go all out. What you can do is end fights fast enough that the attrition doesn't matter.

 

It is easily worth 10% shield. Respec. Go get the rotation down on some Silvers/Elites at your favorite grinding spot. Grab some friends. Run relevant content.

 

If I'm wrong and you hate it, you are out a little bit of credits and at most a couple nights of gameplay. If I am right you have a spec that will perform significantly better in Tanking, Solo PvE, and PvP in a game that lacks dual-spec.

[Kyryck]

Take a good long look at the synergy between Heat Vents, Superheated Rail, Prototype Particle Accelerator, and Flame Shield.

 

Is losing 10% shield a big deal? Sort of, but not really as big of a deal as everyone wants to make it out to be. A much bigger hoopla should be made over losing out on Power Armor in Adv Proto as it is flat mitigation on every hit that connects rather than something you're rolling a dice for.

 

What you gain is monumental. If you can't look at the talents I listed and realize that the damage (and thus threat) will be exponentially better then you're beyond hope to be convinced anyway.

 

If you can't look at the listed talents, throw in Gyroscopic Alignment Jets, and realize that your heat in certain fights will be nigh-bottomless then I don't know what to say. During the worst of times, you might have to use Rapid Shots, but you will never wait an entire 16 seconds for Rail Shot. That's worst case scenario. Best case scenario you are mashing buttons nonstop and worried about hitting 0 Heat.

 

You're losing 10% mitigation to nearly double your threat/damage and make fights end much faster.

 

If you are in normals then this isn't even a conversation we should be having, you could tank them as a full DPS spec and your healer will still likely be bored and throwing Lightning Bolts so he has something to do.

 

For tougher content, if your gear is even remotely good enough to tank it in the first place then you are trading a bit of mitigation for a much shorter fight. As a Powertech you already have the chops to tank this stuff, so a shorter fight means there is less probability that something just goes wrong. Healers hit the wrong buttons, people lose track of environmental hazards and die, AoE damage adds up and you lose someone.

 

Boss fights are battles of attrition. The only tanks that die solely dude to insurmountable onslaught are ones without the gear to be there in the first place. More often tanks die/fail due to Enrage timers, and the silly little mistakes I mentioned all adding up to catastrophic failure. Having the capability to make these fights significantly shorter swings them heavily in your favor.

 

Furthermore you will never have the mitigation of a Jugg/Assassin. Period. Their cooldowns and abilities are simply too good while we're falling back on crap like 10% shield talents to make up the difference. Oil Slick is flat out garbage (take it anyway, Shieldtechs are in a position where even garbage helps), Energy Shield is sub par compared to what Jugs/Sins have, and Kolto Overload doesn't help nearly as much as Dark Ward, Dark Charge healing, or Sonic Barrier over the course of a protracted fight.

 

What you can do is have the best single target threat output in the game (an area Juggs will smoke a standard ST at). What you can do is give up your resource woes and go all out. What you can do is end fights fast enough that the attrition doesn't matter.

 

It is easily worth 10% shield. Respec. Go get the rotation down on some Silvers/Elites at your favorite grinding spot. Grab some friends. Run relevant content.

 

If I'm wrong and you hate it, you are out a little bit of credits and at most a couple nights of gameplay. If I am right you have a spec that will perform significantly better in Tanking, Solo PvE, and PvP in a game that lacks dual-spec.

 

Here's what we give up if we do this hybrid build:

-We lose 10% shielding. This means we have less chance to refresh rocket punch when we shield an attack.

-We lose Oil Slick. Granted, this is an essentially worthless ability as it stands.

-We lose Heat Blast, an absolutely free way to lose heat every 15 seconds.

-We lose a rail shot ignoring 60% of the target's armor.

-We lose a 2% damage reduction.

-We lose an 8% ion gas cylinder damage buff (meh).

 

For all this lost, under your suggestions, we gain:

-A rail shot that ignores 30% of the target's armor instead of 60%.

-A new ability in Incendiary Missile that costs 25 heat and that we have to reapply every 18 seconds to ensure the target is burning.

-A rail shot that vents 8 heat, assuming the target is burning (remember, you've spent 25 heat to get a potential free rail shot that gets rid of 8).

-A rail shot that has a 30% chance on flame burst (a 16 heat ability) and a 45% chance on rocket punch (an ability that is itself depending on shielding attacks to refresh its cooldown) to become free and refreshed.

 

How is this even a debate? Simply LOOK at all we're giving up. All for a CHANCE that we'll get a free rail shot. A rail shot that ignores 30% less armor than with the 'regular' tanking build. We're sure picking up a buttload of useless talents for combustible gas cylinder though; that'll sure help our tanking. We're losing a guaranteed 10% shield chance (which gives us more chance to refresh rocket punch, our prime tanking ability) and a guaranteed 2% damage reduction.

 

I'm sorry. Until you show some hard numbers I'm going to fall on the side of "The hybrid build is markedly inferior. It gives up far too much survivability and gains far too little in terms of heat management and damage in return." In point of fact, I would hazard that you are going to get MORE heat troubles with this build, simply from putting up incendiary missile and constantly using flame burst in the hopes of procs falling and you getting a free rail shot. A rail shot that ignores 30% less armor than mine, and given the GCD and other abilities that you are going to be using, you'll get to fire off at most 2 times before having to refresh burning, use rocket punch, flame burst, etc. Unless you're honestly trying to suggest that rail shot is somehow superior to rocket punch in our tanking rotation, or that we shouldn't be putting up combust (via flame sweep or flame burst) for the damage reduction from that.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong. But thus far the owness is entirely upon you to put up some numbers and show your build actually works as you claim it does. All that we've got right now is bizarre speculation and assertion, while you apparently ignore the myriad problems that arise because of your hybrid build.