Progression Changes coming in 7.5.1

[eabevella]

I'm not saying people should do >30k heal/dps but I think it's basic manner to ask how much you should do on a dummy before trying Nef/Dash, or at least ask the group to let you try and drop if you can't meet the number and there isn't a top healer/dps to carry you after one or two pulls so the group can find a replacement fast.

[DarthNillard]

4 hours ago, eabevella said:

I'm not saying people should do >30k heal/dps but I think it's basic manner to ask how much you should do on a dummy before trying Nef/Dash, or at least ask the group to let you try and drop if you can't meet the number and there isn't a top healer/dps to carry you after one or two pulls so the group can find a replacement fast.

This is a good point, though people get offended if you ask in advance.  You can no longer just look at their item rating and history either because its fairly easy to get to 343 and be carried.  Majority of the people I have seen struggle in Nef/Dash who are properly geared have only done Nef/Dash from those 2 raids in NiM (and were probably carried).

[Darev]

I'm not really sure I understand the bad feelings about the new bag / conversion system.
I look at it as a way to move people away from the method below to doing group content to keep the queues popping.

BUT...for the solo players...here's the breakdown:

With enough lvl 80 alts doing conquest you can get 2-9 (depending on which gear you choose) pieces of rakata gear, from a VENDOR, each week.  No bag / conversion math needed.

30 alts maxes it out each week.

2000 conquest coins = 175 OP-1 = 3x bracers / 3x belts / 2 of most everything else.

10 toons doing conquest = 2000 conquest coins.

No groups needed.

Takes, on average, an hour per toon.

[eabevella]

8 hours ago, DarthNillard said:

This is a good point, though people get offended if you ask in advance.  You can no longer just look at their item rating and history either because its fairly easy to get to 343 and be carried.  Majority of the people I have seen struggle in Nef/Dash who are properly geared have only done Nef/Dash from those 2 raids in NiM (and were probably carried).

I've met 343 people who did 8k dps. They must have great friends.

Most of the people I've met who asked if they were ok were people in their 340. I guess those are the people who were more conscious about their gear/skill. I have no problem with them even if we need to find replacement. Usually the others were more friendly with them too.

 

[madarsrikards]

12 hours ago, Darev said:

I'm not really sure I understand the bad feelings about the new bag / conversion system.

  I can explain! To go from a green bag to a rakata bag requires 27 green bags into 9 blue bags into 3 columni bags into 1 rakata bag. Which then gives a random 340 rakata piece. Might not even be the piece you need, at 4 green bags per week it could have been a completely wasted 7 weeks of doing all veteran weeklies every week. It's completely worthless for getting Raskata gear.

12 hours ago, Darev said:

2000 conquest coins = 175 OP-1 = 3x bracers / 3x belts / 2 of most everything else.

25 OP-1 only gets you a 324 Rakata piece. Even without unlocked purple mods at a baseline 340 blue Zeek gear, this is significantly lower stats, -50 armor, anywhere from -90 to -260 in stats. To upgrade it to 344 you have to +2 it at a something like 80 OP-1 cost for each step. That is not cheap!

12 hours ago, Darev said:

30 alts maxes it out each week.

10 toons doing conquest = 2000 conquest coins.

Yikes. If I wanted soul crushing Korean-tier grind, I'd play Korean MMOs.

The real MVP of the patch for players who don't know what Op is, is actually bumping up veteran weeklies to 4 per week and adding option to take 160 FP-1 instead of 30 FP-1 and a green bag. 640 FP-1 per week isn't big but it's something, Rakata gear progress is super slow but it's better than nothing. I have two Rakata pieces now.

Edited August 28 by madarsrikards

[Darev]

36 minutes ago, madarsrikards said:

  I can explain! To go from a green bag to a rakata bag requires 27 green bags into 9 blue bags into 3 columni bags into 1 rakata bag. Which then gives a random 340 rakata piece. Might not even be the piece you need, at 4 green bags per week it could have been a completely wasted 7 weeks of doing all veteran weeklies every week. It's completely worthless for getting Raskata gear.

 

If that's RNG at the end of the path of all of those bag conversions, which of course it is because games LOVE RNG...it's completely not worth it.

[DarthNillard]

3 hours ago, Darev said:

If that's RNG at the end of the path of all of those bag conversions, which of course it is because games LOVE RNG...it's completely not worth it.

It is. And you are correct, its not (worth it).

Still waiting for someone at Broadsword to explain why DPS sets don't have the same stats for the same slots for the same specs.  Like if a DPS set has 2 accuracy pieces, they should be THE SAME gear slot on each set (i.e. every gloves and every pants).  Drops are still RNG so its bad enough, needing to hope for 1 slot on a misc alt with the spec you need for the stat you want is infuriating 😠

Edited August 28 by DarthNillard

[Darev]

3 hours ago, DarthNillard said:

It is. And you are correct, its not (worth it).

Still waiting for someone at Broadsword to explain why DPS sets don't have the same stats for the same slots for the same specs.  Like if a DPS set has 2 accuracy pieces, they should be THE SAME gear slot on each set (i.e. every gloves and every pants).  Drops are still RNG so its bad enough, needing to hope for 1 slot on a misc alt with the spec you need for the stat you want is infuriating 😠

I noticed that too when I made some spreadsheets about which stats were in which spots for each set of gear on the Rakata Vendor...at the entry level.
 

Bounty Hunter / Trooper = Boltblaster armor.    Accuracy is on Chest / Legs
Agent / Smuggler = Rakata Targeter armor.    Accuracy is on Helmet / Boots
Warrior / Jedi Knight = Rakata Pummeler armor.   Accuracy is on Gloves / Legs
Inquisitor / Consular = Rakata Force Lord armor.   Accuracy is on Helmet / Chest.

As you get to Rakata 340, the skin changes, and I think the stats do as well.   I'm working on that.   Slowly.

[Samcuu]

So wait I'm a bit confused here. Are we no longer able to transfer conquest comms into op-1s? Nim Dash/Nefra in 340 gear gives you a good starting point to be able to upgrade whatever gear that drops off the boss into 344s. I had to max out my conquest comms a few times to buy the exact piece of gear I needed at 324 level then upgrade it to 344 to min/max my rakata set, but it was pretty easy to do imo. This doesn't seem easier to me,  but I guess what I'm taking away from the posts is that ppl who only want to run solo and avoid the nim bosses, will have a way to upgrade? Again I haven't done the math but I feel that conquest comms exchange for op-1's was basically the same thing...

[eabevella]

12 hours ago, DarthNillard said:

It is. And you are correct, its not (worth it).

Still waiting for someone at Broadsword to explain why DPS sets don't have the same stats for the same slots for the same specs.  Like if a DPS set has 2 accuracy pieces, they should be THE SAME gear slot on each set (i.e. every gloves and every pants).  Drops are still RNG so its bad enough, needing to hope for 1 slot on a misc alt with the spec you need for the stat you want is infuriating 😠

This is something I absolutely HATE.

They deliberately made the same gears into different stupid names and different combat styles so that people have to play different class to get the gear stats they need. With the "help" of the RNG drop, it's just a pain in the *** process.

At least with the new OP-1 rewards it's way faster to get ~800 OP-1 so I can buy the slot needed from a vendor and upgrade it to 344.

[Darev]

12 hours ago, Samcuu said:

So wait I'm a bit confused here. Are we no longer able to transfer conquest comms into op-1s? Nim Dash/Nefra in 340 gear gives you a good starting point to be able to upgrade whatever gear that drops off the boss into 344s. I had to max out my conquest comms a few times to buy the exact piece of gear I needed at 324 level then upgrade it to 344 to min/max my rakata set, but it was pretty easy to do imo. This doesn't seem easier to me,  but I guess what I'm taking away from the posts is that ppl who only want to run solo and avoid the nim bosses, will have a way to upgrade? Again I haven't done the math but I feel that conquest comms exchange for op-1's was basically the same thing...

You can still do it that way.

I was looking at the bag/reward/upgrade method as a second way to get gear upgrades alongside trading in comms.
Now I'm not even going to bother.

[Thraka]

12 hours ago, Samcuu said:

So wait I'm a bit confused here. Are we no longer able to transfer conquest comms into op-1s? Nim Dash/Nefra in 340 gear gives you a good starting point to be able to upgrade whatever gear that drops off the boss into 344s. I had to max out my conquest comms a few times to buy the exact piece of gear I needed at 324 level then upgrade it to 344 to min/max my rakata set, but it was pretty easy to do imo. This doesn't seem easier to me,  but I guess what I'm taking away from the posts is that ppl who only want to run solo and avoid the nim bosses, will have a way to upgrade? Again I haven't done the math but I feel that conquest comms exchange for op-1's was basically the same thing...

The boxes seem designed more for single character players because they are bound. For people playing multiple characters in the conquest game, we would just take the FP1 rewards instead. Combining normal conquest comms with higher fp1 rewards from various activities (and higher op1 rewards from ops) you can work a piece up faster than before.

 

Edited August 29 by Thraka

[HaploBartow]

On 7/23/2024 at 5:22 PM, CliffRedemption said:

I don't see the point in these gear changes two and a half years into the expansion when everyone is fully geared. It seems to me that these changes are done to create a paper trail and prove you're pushing out updates and changes when you haven't been.

The reason is simple: the vast majority of players are actually *not* fully geared. Only the diehards who play most days, and on all their alts, too.

I've been playing SWTOR since the beta, and my available time these days is very low thanks to having a job and a family. I'm still not quite to 240 gear yet, even all green... let alone to top-ranked purple gear. And that's just for my main character. I haven't had time to level any of my other characters past 70 for most of them. So any changes like this that make it earning gear currency more available when *I* can play, rather than just on their set schedule, are very welcome.

[DarthNillard]

3 hours ago, HaploBartow said:

The reason is simple: the vast majority of players are actually *not* fully geared. Only the diehards who play most days, and on all their alts, too.

I've been playing SWTOR since the beta, and my available time these days is very low thanks to having a job and a family. I'm still not quite to 240 gear yet, even all green... let alone to top-ranked purple gear. And that's just for my main character. I haven't had time to level any of my other characters past 70 for most of them. So any changes like this that make it earning gear currency more available when *I* can play, rather than just on their set schedule, are very welcome.

Add on that this is a what, 12+ year old game that hasn't released meaningful MULTIPLAYER content in a long time.  And unless you are doing Prog raiding for the newest raid, you can clear almost all the content in this game with 336+ gear if you are a decent enough tank, healer, or DPS.

I have a million alts.  I was happily rocking 340 modded gear for all my toons for a while before finally joining the Nefra/Dasher + Upgrades grind.  Now I have 1 344 DPS set that I share across all my toons and half complete healling & tank sets.  But no rush to finish them....especially now that new other SW game out taking up my time!

Edited August 29 by DarthNillard

[DarthNillard]

19 hours ago, Darev said:

I noticed that too when I made some spreadsheets about which stats were in which spots for each set of gear on the Rakata Vendor...at the entry level.
 

Bounty Hunter / Trooper = Boltblaster armor.    Accuracy is on Chest / Legs
Agent / Smuggler = Rakata Targeter armor.    Accuracy is on Helmet / Boots
Warrior / Jedi Knight = Rakata Pummeler armor.   Accuracy is on Gloves / Legs
Inquisitor / Consular = Rakata Force Lord armor.   Accuracy is on Helmet / Chest.

As you get to Rakata 340, the skin changes, and I think the stats do as well.   I'm working on that.   Slowly.

There's already a website that has dropdowns showing every gear set piece for every slot. I don't know if we can freely link here so I will DM you the address.  It was super helpful in helping me get my last few pieces on alts!

[TifaVallentine]

the cache prog is nice, but its expensive and not worth it, only time it becomes worth while is when you have hit the weekly catalyst limits and you take the cache because trying to take the catalysts just gives you 0

The fact that they even have weekly limits is just really dumb but then who knows why a weekly limit was even introduced in the first place

[LD_Little_Dragon]

5 hours ago, TifaVallentine said:

 

The fact that they even have weekly limits is just really dumb but then who knows why a weekly limit was even introduced in the first place

To increase the time (in weeks) it takes to grind.  That's the reason for all weekly limits and currency caps.

[megawarz]

On 8/27/2024 at 10:18 AM, DarthNillard said:

You are certainly right.  Dasher in particular is rough with even 1 poor DPS or Healer...

Bruh, if you think DASH is rough with 1 bad dps or healer, you should do NiM warlords or about go do NiM draxus, or how about NiM Bestia, then you can complain

[megawarz]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:11 AM, HaploBartow said:

The reason is simple: the vast majority of players are actually *not* fully geared. Only the diehards who play most days, and on all their alts, too.

I've been playing SWTOR since the beta, and my available time these days is very low thanks to having a job and a family. I'm still not quite to 240 gear yet, even all green... let alone to top-ranked purple gear. And that's just for my main character. I haven't had time to level any of my other characters past 70 for most of them. So any changes like this that make it earning gear currency more available when *I* can play, rather than just on their set schedule, are very welcome.

My guy, you want tank gear, just go on any character that has a jugg/sin/PT and set loot discipline to tank, then put that gear in legacy bay. Boom tank set done. Now do it with dps but now you mix and match to get accuracy and alacrity thresholds. Boom, dps set done, put that in legacy. Healer gear, whatever gear has accuracy, get those pieces but with either crit/alacrity. Boom, healer done, put in legacy. Now you don't have to gear anymore. 

[megawarz]

On 8/23/2024 at 9:24 AM, Wulfurkin said:

Honestly ive had several responses like this by now and its all the same. People thinking that the best gear should be gated even further and only reserved for established nim raiding groups. It all feels fairly elitist to lock everyone else out of gearing progression just because you want to feel superior in rakata gear. Im just glad the devs stopped catering to this attitude.

In 6.0, you literally got your BiS mods/armorings/enhancements from spammer station, it was annoying, but the grind was getting enough tech frags to get your set bonus and credits for amplifiers. NiM raiders didn't care about gear for legacy NiM in early 7.0 when bosses like NiM Terror was an actual dps check and you had to bring classes that could not only do big damage but survive. If you think NiM raiders are elitist because you don't get invited to a NiM nefra because you're not 344 ilvl, then that person for sure isn't a NiM raider. NiM raiders will have some fun because it becomes a can I carry this group to a NiM nefra kill, or maybe a legacy HM (KP/EV don't count, those are 8m flashpoints)

[Strathkin]

On 8/23/2024 at 2:45 PM, hillerbees said:

Everyone else might understand it but not me - Hide and Zeek are too cumbersome and when unlocked its only on one toon...just not bothered with it anymore.

While I've unlocked 1 Jedi &/or Sith & 1 Tech Class for both Factions, this is NOT required as I did for convenience:

• At Zeek just change your Default Discipline to ALL as this unlocks everything to be purchased.
• Then rather than wait 2h for timer of REFUND to expire, if your sure MAIL to your Alt.
• It's a 110 Credit's yet instantly removes 2h binding, and is easier than waiting or equiping & paying to unslot...

 Give it a try it's highly worth it.  

Edited September 9 by Strathkin

[Wulfurkin]

9 hours ago, megawarz said:

In 6.0, you literally got your BiS mods/armorings/enhancements from spammer station, it was annoying, but the grind was getting enough tech frags to get your set bonus and credits for amplifiers. NiM raiders didn't care about gear for legacy NiM in early 7.0 when bosses like NiM Terror was an actual dps check and you had to bring classes that could not only do big damage but survive. If you think NiM raiders are elitist because you don't get invited to a NiM nefra because you're not 344 ilvl, then that person for sure isn't a NiM raider. NiM raiders will have some fun because it becomes a can I carry this group to a NiM nefra kill, or maybe a legacy HM (KP/EV don't count, those are 8m flashpoints)

In my experience nim raiders are incredibly elitist and closed off. The times i tried to join a nim raid i got booted because i hadnt done it before. This despite the fact i cleared the ops on hm where all mechanics are already included. So yes im happy i can now gear my characters through this new upgrade.cache system mostly because i will never have to look at mm ops again. I would have liked the achievements but they arent worth dealing with the toxic players who run them.

[Toraak]

33 minutes ago, Wulfurkin said:

In my experience nim raiders are incredibly elitist and closed off. The times i tried to join a nim raid i got booted because i hadnt done it before. This despite the fact i cleared the ops on hm where all mechanics are already included. So yes im happy i can now gear my characters through this new upgrade.cache system mostly because i will never have to look at mm ops again. I would have liked the achievements but they arent worth dealing with the toxic players who run them.

While if your trying to do Pug NiM Ops generally people want you to have experience in that Operation on NiM. With that being said there are guilds that do progression that are willing to teach NiM Operations as you progress.

 

Note: Not all mechanics are in Hard Mode Operations. Mechanics change in NiM.

[Wulfurkin]

8 hours ago, Toraak said:

While if your trying to do Pug NiM Ops generally people want you to have experience in that Operation on NiM. With that being said there are guilds that do progression that are willing to teach NiM Operations as you progress.

 

Note: Not all mechanics are in Hard Mode Operations. Mechanics change in NiM.

Progression raiding is difficult for me because of the time tables  people tend to do it during weekdays and i dont always have time then. Regardless, the toxicity has largely made me lose interest in nim ops anyway. Im currently working on clearing the last of the hm ops such as Gods and R4. Ill probably quit raiding in this game after that.

[megawarz]

14 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

In my experience nim raiders are incredibly elitist and closed off. The times i tried to join a nim raid i got booted because i hadnt done it before. This despite the fact i cleared the ops on hm where all mechanics are already included. So yes im happy i can now gear my characters through this new upgrade.cache system mostly because i will never have to look at mm ops again. I would have liked the achievements but they arent worth dealing with the toxic players who run them.

There are 4 types of raids that NiM raiders do, progression (team), pug (go for clear/timer, depending on group, experience preferred), lockouts (know fights up to where the lockout run ends), and learning runs to get some people some experience in the raid. There are also typically 1-2 extra mechs in NiM vs HM, on thrasher, at 50% boss does 2 sets of snipers with a 360 knockback, warlords has cleanses from horic grenade and tu'chuk, styrak has 2x sets of knockbacks per chain, brontes burn tanks have to deal with hands, DP council, all 4 are out at once (applies to NiM trandos), and its much different in NiM gods vs HM. Some NiM raiders are very elitist, but the majority of those that do NiM Dxun and NiM gods want more people to do NiM so we can do more raids. The toxic spurgs you might have experienced sound like clownville (star forge) raiders