PvP is such a slog for most players who don't PvP all the time solution suggestions inside.

[VegaMist]

38 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Now it wouldn't be punishment if EVERY player had to complete 12 matches, but to me, currently with the wins count as 3 or 4,  it is.

Getting 3 for win is a reward for said win. Getting 1 per loss is essentially a consolation prize. There are some opinions I saw on this forum (I'm sure you've seen them too) that getting that 1 point promotes AFK-ing since people can join matches, do nothing, and still get rewarded. So it's definitely not a punishment, but a middle ground, so those who lost still get something for their time. That's more than you would get in any sports where winner gets everything and loser gets nothing.

Now, when you say it takes a long time to finish weekly. That depends on the server and the time you play. I can normally complete one weekly per evening on SS even when I lose my way to it (or I may split it into two nights if I get tired and it's getting late). It also depends on how much time you can spend on it which only you would know. If your time is limited and you're on a low participation server, then perhaps starting a weekly on Monday may not be the best.

For example, I know I will need those points tomorrow to hit Conquest Goals and I had time this weekend. So, I played one weekly yesterday (queued solo), and then started another one on a different toon (got it to 6 points). Today, I finished that weekly, and started yet another one on a third toon (got it to 9 points). I may have less time tomorrow, but with only 3 points left to finish, I'm pretty sure I'll get it (unless there is an emergency of some sort).

You may have less time than that, or you may be on a server with low PVP participation, and may need to spread it out over several days. But if you don't enjoy PVP in general, then perhaps your time is better spend on something else. Something you actually like, so it doesn't feel like punishment.

[FrontLineFodder]

1 hour ago, VegaMist said:

Getting 3 for win is a reward for said win. Getting 1 per loss is essentially a consolation prize. There are some opinions I saw on this forum (I'm sure you've seen them too) that getting that 1 point promotes AFK-ing since people can join matches, do nothing, and still get rewarded. So it's definitely not a punishment, but a middle ground, so those who lost still get something for their time. That's more than you would get in any sports where winner gets everything and loser gets nothing.

If the mission (and main conquest objective) is complete 12 matches, it is complete 12 matches.

When a player is on the winning team they get the additional objective for Victorious (and 2 and 3) on top of that the winning team gets more medals.

by allowing the better players to skip 1/2 to 3/4 of the matches ON TOP of their additional rewards, then they are punishing those players in the losing team.

 

1 hour ago, VegaMist said:

You may have less time than that, or you may be on a server with low PVP participation, and may need to spread it out over several days. But if you don't enjoy PVP in general, then perhaps your time is better spend on something else. Something you actually like, so it doesn't feel like punishment.

As I said earlier, this punishment is a barrier to entry.

Go read the title of the thread, then come back and add value to the discussions rather than advocating for the status quo.

Edited April 1 by FrontLineFodder
removed personalisation

[Darkestmonty]

9 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

 

This is what I am talking about. Stop punishing players for not being the best or getting bad groups.

Punish players for not participating.

 

Medals are not the way to score, as a bad player I can join GSF and warzone matches and get 0 medals (occasionally I do score a medal, but it's not gaurenteed), this is not because I stand around stealthed, but because I am not the best player in these modes.

Because I am punished for playing these modes, I don't play them. because I don't play them I will not improve.

 

(refer to my previous post, When I talk about being punished, I refer to the 3x or 4x number of matches I need to complete to get the weekly)

Gsf needs the medals diplayed again reworked as well their auto AFK system reworked when contesting a location no one owns and defender radius of satellites increased. Warzones are fine medal wise, arena could use a little work because even good players who get zerged both rounds can end up with only 1 or 2 medals. Nothing like being a non stealthed player in Arena and having 3-4 stealths hit you at once.

Arena is in an odd place because the medals would be fine if arena popped on every server regularly but sometimes you wait 15-30 minutes or more for a single arena match and losing Arena to a much better team could easily result in 1-2 medals for the losing team which should not be acceptable with a long wait time.

Edited April 1 by Darkestmonty

[VegaMist]

5 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

If the mission (and main conquest objective) is complete 12 matches, it is complete 12 matches.

The mission is to get 12 points by any combination of wins and losses.

5 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

When a player is on the winning team they get the additional objective for Victorious (and 2 and 3) on top of that the winning team gets more medals.

That's the incentive to get better and become a reason your team wins - noone should expect to get carried forever.

5 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

by allowing the better players to skip 1/2 to 3/4 of the matches ON TOP of their additional rewards, then they are punishing those players in the losing team.

That's how it works in any sports - winning team gets more points. That's the incentive to get better.

6 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

As I said earlier, this punishment is a barrier to entry.

Absence of a reward is not a punishment. And there is no "barrier to entry" except perhaps in your mind. 

6 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Go read the title of the thread, then come back and add value to the discussions rather than advocating for the status quo.

And you assume nodding in sync adds to a discussion? Then you have similarly skewed idea of discussion as you have of punishment.

[Samcuu]

11 hours ago, Argomemnon said:

3 wins and 42 losses for the week.

But I bet those 3 wins feel really good 😂😂

Joking aside what is the server you play on? I've got some ideas to help you until BS figures it out, they might not ever btw so you might do well taking my advice. 

I would say transfer a toon to starforge. So many more warzones pop there so even when u do get a big premade that might contribute to you losing a match you can dodge them the next time if you don't want to play against them again, multiple warzones will pop especially at prime time hours. It's not optimal but I believe you said u wanted the decos or something, so if u transfer back to ur original server after the season you'll keep ur decos. Again you have to pay like $20 to do this with both transfer but if you want them that badly it's a less painful way. 

Second let's talk about your skill. Do you keybind ur abilities or do u click? Do you have a 12 button mouse? Are u a keyboard turner? Do you actually have a mouse? Believe it or not I've known ppl to play pvp without a mouse and clearly a lack of most of the stuff I've mentioned puts you at a disadvantage. Make some friends, form some groups, get in voice chat so u can call out incoming to nodes or coordinate focusing targets etc. This is all stuff that vet pvpers do and I'm assuming it's why your win percentage is so low. Also it's a lot more fun to make friends with ppl and pvp with them than it is solo. 

If you don't want to do any if that stuff that's fine that's your decision, but at the end of the day if ur not taking strides to improve your play, the results will show. 

[Luciferior]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

But I bet those 3 wins feel really good 😂😂

Joking aside what is the server you play on? I've got some ideas to help you until BS figures it out, they might not ever btw so you might do well taking my advice. 

I would say transfer a toon to starforge. So many more warzones pop there so even when u do get a big premade that might contribute to you losing a match you can dodge them the next time if you don't want to play against them again, multiple warzones will pop especially at prime time hours. It's not optimal but I believe you said u wanted the decos or something, so if u transfer back to ur original server after the season you'll keep ur decos. Again you have to pay like $20 to do this with both transfer but if you want them that badly it's a less painful way. 

Second let's talk about your skill. Do you keybind ur abilities or do u click? Do you have a 12 button mouse? Are u a keyboard turner? Do you actually have a mouse? Believe it or not I've known ppl to play pvp without a mouse and clearly a lack of most of the stuff I've mentioned puts you at a disadvantage. Make some friends, form some groups, get in voice chat so u can call out incoming to nodes or coordinate focusing targets etc. This is all stuff that vet pvpers do and I'm assuming it's why your win percentage is so low. Also it's a lot more fun to make friends with ppl and pvp with them than it is solo. 

If you don't want to do any if that stuff that's fine that's your decision, but at the end of the day if ur not taking strides to improve your play, the results will show. 

The ques do seem to pop consistently on star forge but we do have alot of premade guilds not to mention alot of them seem to be from imp side which is one of the reasons I made so many alts on pub side now

Im certain pub side has premades I think imp side takes the cake when it comes to who has more lol

last night I was against reign of darkness and ruining lives together on the same team then I ended up being on reign of darkness's team for a 2nd match

When I went against em first think it was on a yavin match 2/3 people left right after the first mid fight we lost

Half the team avoided them and seemed to give up me in my infinite hodor moment kept charging into em not that it made a difference in that case

Fights like that one I need a different spec they had like 3-4 melee classes dog piling me and a few at range Im on my arsenal merc with only the reflect and the reactive shield trauma stabilizers 

My kolto overload isnt traited with surge so it is not capable of holding off more than 1 low dps at a time lol

Fights like that are still fun but that is one of those I do not feel like winning was possible their team was all on the same page

And our team was demoralized from the start and they did not want any of that smoke so to speak at all

The premade bit is one of the reasons I have a hard time returning to imp side everytime I roll a new alt get to fleet and see all of the guilds that iv fought in PvP...

I am just kicking my self with the notion why did I come back to this lol I get along with a few of the guilds Fotm and In biofail we trust though I am not sure either guilds opinion in regards to my self maybe they like seeing me so much so they can keep killing me idk lol

Not to mention im an idiot about this whole issue I seem to refuse the notion of joining a guild worrying Ill get caught up in the same issue Or making other friends who do the same thing

I feel like there is no middle ground Either I stay guildless and friendless on star forge to avoid becoming part of the premade issue and get farmed continuously...

Or I join in and I will never be able to lay complaints against them again least I be a hypocrite for it...

Maybe Ill make a solo guild and call it "Global Bait Droppin Hypercrates"

Actually I am going to make that guild Ill be on pub fleet later on to ask for 6 volunteers 3 to help form it and the rest so I can get my Mando Icon because If I am going to channel my inner davy jones 'Forward Into the Abyss!" A Mando Icon seems fitting

Edited April 1 by Luciferior

[Darkestmonty]

35 minutes ago, Luciferior said:

The ques do seem to pop consistently on star forge but we do have alot of premade guilds not to mention alot of them seem to be from imp side which is one of the reasons I made so many alts on pub side now

Im certain pub side has premades I think imp side takes the cake when it comes to who has more lol

last night I was against reign of darkness and ruining lives together on the same team then I ended up being on reign of darkness's team for a 2nd match

When I went against em first think it was on a yavin match 2/3 people left right after the first mid fight we lost

Half the team avoided them and seemed to give up me in my infinite hodor moment kept charging into em not that it made a difference in that case

Fights like that one I need a different spec they had like 3-4 melee classes dog piling me and a few at range Im on my arsenal merc with only the reflect and the reactive shield trauma stabilizers 

My kolto overload isnt traited with surge so it is not capable of holding off more than 1 low dps at a time lol

Fights like that are still fun but that is one of those I do not feel like winning was possible their team was all on the same page

And our team was demoralized from the start and they did not want any of that smoke so to speak at all

The premade bit is one of the reasons I have a hard time returning to imp side everytime I roll a new alt get to fleet and see all of the guilds that iv fought in PvP...

I am just kicking my self with the notion why did I come back to this lol I get along with a few of the guilds Fotm and In biofail we trust though I am not sure either guilds opinion in regards to my self maybe they like seeing me so much so they can keep killing me idk lol

Not to mention im an idiot about this whole issue I seem to refuse the notion of joining a guild worrying Ill get caught up in the same issue Or making other friends who do the same thing

I feel like there is no middle ground Either I stay guildless and friendless on star forge to avoid becoming part of the premade issue and get farmed continuously...

Or I join in and I will never be able to lay complaints against them again least I be a hypocrite for it...

Maybe Ill make a solo guild and call it "Global Bait Droppin Hypercrates"

I hate being on RODs team because they often ignore all objectives and zerg the enemy. They are also the guild that kept pulling me off of the Voidstar doors when I was trying to plant bombs while I was on their team because they wanted to drag the game out longer.

They are the type of premade that solidified my stance that premades should be in their own queue and never be able to queue against solo players.

[Samcuu]

51 minutes ago, Luciferior said:

When I went against em first think it was on a yavin match 2/3 people left right after the first mid fight we lost

These types of games are extremely easy to win tho. I'm like you I'll kamikaze mid all game and keep giving them a warm body. Key is the other ppl on the team who are demoralized and leaving just at the sight of a premade, instead need to be attacking the other node . The zerg squads won't be looking for a call out nor do they care about winning. So if the team is half way competent it should be an easy win. 

 

51 minutes ago, Luciferior said:

last night I was against reign of darkness and ruining lives together on the same team then I ended up being on reign of darkness's team for a 2nd match

This kinda thing really irks me, two premades who just want to fight end up on the same team. It's something broken within matchmaker that shouldn't be happening because those games aren't fun for anyone. The premades aren't getting good fights like they want (assuming just stomping unsuspecting pugs isn't their thing, but it could be 😭) and the other team is probably just getting farmed at spawn. Tweak to matchmaker could make a massive difference in everyone's experience, but the devs don't bother with it. 

 

51 minutes ago, Luciferior said:

Not to mention im an idiot about this whole issue I seem to refuse the notion of joining a guild worrying Ill get caught up in the same issue Or making other friends who do the same thing

I know a lot of ppl who only group in 8 man's if there's another premade they can fight. There are like minded ppl out there that don't find it fun to get in a match where ppl can't defend themselves and are just melting. My friends and I refuse to join a group bigger than 4 or so unless there's another premade to fight. Even then a 4 man group is overkill plenty of times if it's all dps. 

Edited April 1 by Samcuu

[Luciferior]

29 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

These types of games are extremely easy to win tho. I'm like you I'll kamikaze mid all game and keep giving them a warm body. Key is the other ppl on the team who are demoralized and leaving just at the sight of a premade, instead need to be attacking the other node . The zerg squads won't be looking for a call out nor do they care about winning. So if the team is half way competent it should be an easy win. 

 

This kinda thing really irks me, two premades who just want to fight end up on the same team. It's something broken within matchmaker that shouldn't be happening because those games aren't fun for anyone. The premades aren't getting good fights like they want (assuming just stomping unsuspecting pugs isn't their thing, but it could be 😭) and the other team is probably just getting farmed at spawn. Tweak to matchmaker could make a massive difference in everyone's experience, but the devs don't bother with it. 

 

I know a lot of ppl who only group in 8 man's if there's another premade they can fight. There are like minded ppl out there that don't find it fun to get in a match where ppl can't defend themselves and are just melting. My friends and I refuse to join a group bigger than 4 or so unless there's another premade to fight. Even then a 4 man group is overkill plenty of times if it's all dps. 

I will agree with the notion alot of them just want good fights and at the same time there are a few who just want to roflstomp solos

Something Ill have to take into account when I roll this guild later on if I decide to recruit other pvpers there will be a stipulation no farming of solo quers If they arent tagged up with a premade guild or known for any shady fighting tactics then imo they should be spared if possible

Now If a player is tagged up with a known premade who delights in farming solo players and playing shady then Ill look more favorably on being ruthless towards them

Though this is all supposition for me atm considering I have to make the tag first then decide how its going to go..

I dont anticipate alot of people are going to be interested in joining a tag that basically encourages them to be targeted but who knows maybe people will surprise me lol

[VegaMist]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

These types of games are extremely easy to win tho. I'm like you I'll kamikaze mid all game and keep giving them a warm body. Key is the other ppl on the team who are demoralized and leaving just at the sight of a premade, instead need to be attacking the other node . The zerg squads won't be looking for a call out nor do they care about winning. So if the team is half way competent it should be an easy win. 

This so much! What many fail to realize is how often these Mega DPS premades leave nods literally unattended. Yes, once you capture it, they may come crushing down on you, which is the time you teammates can use to capture a different nod. Will it work every time? Of course not - you're playing against humans after all, not AI. But, that's exactly why you learn their tactics, so you can use the knowledge to your advantage, and, as a result, become a better player.

[Argomemnon]

For me the punishment as someone with limited time is I have to do the pvp chore longer before I can do the content I want to. This happens to me on satele shan server. That being said having to lose majority of my games each week is maddening. I swear I damn near lose my way to finish the weeklies. I prefer to do gsf or pve activities. I know they want us to do more to stay in game, but making my limited time and not being able buy the end of the season means I have to prioritize content I dont like to do. I just want a healthy "work"  and play life balance.

[Luciferior]

Lol that new guild tag is working out better than I thought...I get low health dangle my self infront of the op team have a bunch pile on me and commit to killing me then I pop my reflect and they heal me back to full...

I have found my calling In life to global bait all who oppose me lol..

Edited April 2 by Luciferior

[VegaMist]

3 hours ago, Argomemnon said:

For me the punishment as someone with limited time is I have to do the pvp chore longer before I can do the content I want to. This happens to me on satele shan server. That being said having to lose majority of my games each week is maddening. I swear I damn near lose my way to finish the weeklies. I prefer to do gsf or pve activities. I know they want us to do more to stay in game, but making my limited time and not being able buy the end of the season means I have to prioritize content I dont like to do. I just want a healthy "work"  and play life balance.

Since you’re on SS, there is a high chance you and I have crossed paths on the battlefield. Most likely, more than once, since it’s a smaller crowd than SF. I normally play after 9 pm Pacific on weekdays (on weekends, it varies). Sometimes earlier, but I tend to prefer a later night crowd since, at least to me, they feel a bit more experienced and more focused. I’m playing solo at the moment since my boyfriend is away on a work trip (when he is here, we join as a duo). There are certain premades that can get annoying to be matched against over and over, but, as far as I know, we don’t currently have any that cannot be beat.

And I know for a fact that it is possible to finish a weekly in one evening on our server. Though, of course if you get a losing streak, it may feel better to spread it across a couple of days. Also, it’s sometimes worth to wait a bit between matches, before queueing for the next one to heighten up the chances to be matched against a different group.

It sounds to me that you are not completely comfortable in PVP yet, and do it more as a chore rather than a content of choice. In which case, it might be worth spreading it out even more – across several days - and focus on the content you do enjoy. On the other hand, if you do decide to continue with PVP (which I strongly encourage), I would suggest studying the maps, and studying your preferred class since classes have different advantages on different maps. Maybe even watch some videos. You may have noticed some snipers seating in particular spots on various maps (I’m not one of them, btw) – that comes from knowing the maps well, and knowing how far they can shoot. And the more you know, the more enjoyable it becomes. I still remember how I used to hate Huttball, and then I learned how to play it.

This is the way. 😉

Edited April 2 by VegaMist

[DeannaVoyager]

In another MMO where the PVP is just as horrible and unbalanced they have a happy hour twice a day. That means for an hour (twice a day) everyone gets the same rewards whether they win or lose. An example of those rewards is a powerful weapon that would otherwise cost a quite a lot. That's how they get newbies to join pvp and getting farmed by premades and more experienced players. The trick with that powerful weapon is, you can only have it for 3 days from the moment you open the lootbox. Then you've got to pvp again to get a new weapon box. 

That same game has kind of a ranked pvp. Obviously the more you win, the higher you climb in ranks. However the catch for more points is you need to win against better players and if you play solo you get more points than playing in premade. 

Their pvp is just as unbalanced as it is in swtor, but people focus their pvp time on happy hours so the queues don't take forever, and being in premade is possible, but it's not rewarded. And yeah, people who are getting farmed are getting something out of it too.

[Wulfurkin]

On 3/31/2024 at 12:15 AM, VegaMist said:

Here is the difference - for those who genuinely love PVP, the game itself is a reward. The most satisfying matches are either the close ones, or when your team manages to overcome a much stronger enemy (sometimes, at the last few seconds). And it's even more satisfying, if you happened to be one of the people (or sometimes even that one person) who managed to tip the scale - even if you're the only one who knows it. PVP matches are always a team effort, but each individual contribution matters, so, ideally, that's where the focus should be. Rewards are a nice add-on, but that's all they are. Whenever they become a goal, the PVP mod itself takes a backseat, since you won't be as invested as you would have been if you were in it for the thrill of the game.

This is a bad argument because of how unrewarding matches are in general. I hate to be the devils advocate but most of them are blowouts. The teams are rarely evenly matched and most people who arent in premades are going to struggle to survive for 10 seconds after leaving spawn. You said that losing teaches you things, the only things that more inexperienced players can learn in such matches is how to avoid combat entirely, which defeats the whole purpose of pvp. The low populaton makes it hard for the matchmaker to have any effect so most team compositions are going to be largely random. If there is a 4+ group in q the mm breaks entirely. There isnt anything to be gained or learned that way except make the most of it and farm what rewards you can. I enjoy pvp, 1v1 battles get the blood pumping but lets not kid ourselves about what the pvp q is like. For excitement i ask my guildmates for some duels on the Rishi SH, perhaps wager some credits to make it truly fun.

[Argomemnon]

finished out the seek with 56 losses 5 wins...  so nearly 11 games to win 1

now with that being said I got well over  1m cq and spent majority of my time doing pvp all week roughly 10 or so games a day minus this weekend

[VegaMist]

42 minutes ago, Wulfurkin said:

This is a bad argument because of how unrewarding matches are in general. I hate to be the devils advocate but most of them are blowouts. The teams are rarely evenly matched and most people who arent in premades are going to struggle to survive for 10 seconds after leaving spawn. You said that losing teaches you things, the only things that more inexperienced players can learn in such matches is how to avoid combat entirely, which defeats the whole purpose of pvp. The low populaton makes it hard for the matchmaker to have any effect so most team compositions are going to be largely random. If there is a 4+ group in q the mm breaks entirely. There isnt anything to be gained or learned that way except make the most of it and farm what rewards you can. I enjoy pvp, 1v1 battles get the blood pumping but lets not kid ourselves about what the pvp q is like. For excitement i ask my guildmates for some duels on the Rishi SH, perhaps wager some credits to make it truly fun.

You managed to contradict yourself. You, apparently, like duels. You get no reward for them except your "blood pumping." Yet, you duel again and again. Same for the people who love PVP ( which, by the way, may mean they like WZs only, or Arenas only, or GSF only, or any combination of 2 out of 3 - not all 3 modes equally), who keep signing up because it satisfies something for them. The rewards are a nice add-on, and they help to attract new blood who may come for rewards, but, hopefully, stay for the game itself.

Edited April 2 by VegaMist
Typos

[Argomemnon]

I'm at 84% collections so its a need to try and finish stuff I've not been able to with a few things since I have limited play time. But between the new patch and this pvp insanity I feel like they sold out to broadsword and they are going to milk us for every last dime we have.

Not to mention this is starting to feel like World of Dailycraft just in a universe far, far, far, away... If Iam to be punished because cartel items don't sell for much any more and I refuse to pay to finish the seasons stuff then maybe it is time to move on. I used to really love this game but the creative direction and decisions has been going down.

It's almost as if they are say this is how you have fun you should like it after we got used to the thing that made it fun. I don't want to quit but if the only thing I have to look forward to is be cannon fodder for the pvp crowd and they never do pve and get almost the same rewards as us what is the point? Ilvl cap is at 336 for them and is stupid easy to get to. Then you go in with 342 and proceed to get absolutely destroyed. LIke why does it seem like my white resolve bar means nothing 1v1 I'm stunned to death unless I pop my DCD for it. even melee as a shadow wrecks me we can skip how OP ranged is vs us that is a different conversation.

Our cooldowns are taking too long to come back up or something watching someone heal back up to full and you are talented for pvp seems like it needs a looking after. I get SS is considered a dead / dying server but spending more time in queue to lose 11 games that depending on the mode can take 15 mins. is just short of 3 hours. Now add in the wait times we are looking at 15 hours or so a week dedicated to being in pvp add in the wait times id dare say 32 hours to do what I need to for both seasons. If I'm working 60-70 hours a week that is literally half my week is spent on a game and work. I want this to be fun not another part time job where I hate the boss, the work is boring, and the only reason I'm still around is I know the job pretty well.

Please don't ruin something I have come to love because someone decided I'm not putting in enough effort, time, or money. I bought the Physical CE when it came out cause I believed in this game. I want this to be successful and keep and attract more players. I am here because I love Star Wars. Please come back and don't do us dirty.

[Wulfurkin]

1 hour ago, VegaMist said:

You managed to contradict yourself. You, apparently, like duels. You get no reward for them except your "blood pumping." Yet, you duel again and again. Same for the people who love PVP ( which, by the way, may mean they like WZs only, or Arenas only, or GSF only, or any combination of 2 out of 3 - not all 3 modes equally), who keep signing up because it satisfies something for them. The rewards are a nice add-on, and they help to attract new blood who may come for rewards, but, hopefully, stay for the game itself.

You missed my point, what i meant is because of the sad state of the pvp q its not rewarding to play for the sake of it. Going in to farm rewards at least gets you something for your time. To get my fun i have duels.

[VegaMist]

26 minutes ago, Wulfurkin said:

You missed my point, what i meant is because of the sad state of the pvp q its not rewarding to play for the sake of it. Going in to farm rewards at least gets you something for your time. To get my fun i have duels.

I didn't miss it. You're projecting your personal feelings onto everyone. Just because something doesn't feel rewarding to you doesn't automatically mean it's the same for everyone. Not everyone finds duels rewarding - you do though. And many players (not all) find PVP rewarding for the love of PVP - same as you love duels just for the thrill it gives you.

[Darkestmonty]

5 hours ago, VegaMist said:

You managed to contradict yourself. You, apparently, like duels. You get no reward for them except your "blood pumping." Yet, you duel again and again. Same for the people who love PVP ( which, by the way, may mean they like WZs only, or Arenas only, or GSF only, or any combination of 2 out of 3 - not all 3 modes equally), who keep signing up because it satisfies something for them. The rewards are a nice add-on, and they help to attract new blood who may come for rewards, but, hopefully, stay for the game itself.

You ascribe everything you feel when you PvP to what everyone experiences or should experience.

I personally don't get excited and have a sense of wonder while PvPing.

I see people AFKing,

I see whole teams rushing the enemy spawn on Voidstar instead of guarding doors.

I see people staying multiple rooms behind in Voidstar to fight instead of advancing.

I see players standing on the pylon in Hypergate and ignoring warning that a stealth will CC/cap/CC/Cap the objective.

I see people too afraid to leave their spawn drop at Alderaan Civil War and refusing to get near the turrets.

I see whole teams fighting on their own end zone in huttball while refusing to go near the ball spawner.

You see wonder and amazement, as a veteran player who has been playing since 2011, I see bad game play that will inventively lead to a loss while I'm just trying to finish my dailies and weeklies.

 

Edited April 2 by Darkestmonty

[VegaMist]

2 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

You ascribe everything you feel when you PvP to what everyone experiences or should experience.

I don't expect everyone to feel like I do. I do believe there are different reasons people play PVP - some will lead to enjoyment and some to ever increasing frustration.

2 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

I personally don't get excited and have a sense of wonder while PvPing.

I see people AFKing,

I see whole teams rushing the enemy spawn on Voidstar instead of guarding doors.

I see people staying multiple rooms behind in Voidstar to fight instead of advancing.

I see players standing on the pylon in Hypergate and ignoring warning that a stealth will CC/cap/CC/Cap the objective.

I see people too afraid to leave their spawn drop at Alderaan Civil War and refusing to get near the turrets.

I see whole teams fighting on their own end zone in huttball while refusing to go near the ball spawner.

I see all of it too, but I don't place individual choices squarely onto company that made the game (and I'm not shy to criticize the company when it's deserved).

• People AFKing - individual choice (I do wish we had a kick button back to deal with them, but we still have a report option).
• Teams rushing the enemy spawn on Voidstar instead of guarding - either lack of understanding or lack of concern for objectives, which is once again comes to individual choices
• People staying multiple rooms behind in Voidstar to fight instead of advancing - same as above
• Players standing on the pylon in Hypergate and ignoring warning that a stealth will CC/cap/CC/Cap the objective - lack of understanding (usually need to get burned couple of times in order to learn)
• People too afraid to leave their spawn drop at Alderaan Civil War and refusing to get near the turrets - if they don't leave the spawn zone, they'll be kicked by the system. This one may also mean they are experiencing a technical issue which happens every once in a while to anything computer related.
• Whole teams fighting on their own end zone in huttball while refusing to go near the ball spawner - same as point two above

2 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

You see wonder and amazement, as a veteran player who has been playing since 2011, I see bad game play that will inventively lead to a loss while I'm just trying to finish my dailies and weeklies.

I see a variety of human beings in a PVP setup making individual choices which may lead to either wins or losses for the team. I see players who try their best, and sometimes make mistakes (which is very human). I see some players come in under-geared and clueless, and then gradually progress and grow into formidable fighters - and that is beautiful to watch. I see those who love to smash and are very good at it, but they are the ones who can often forget objectives (in the thrill of a fight). I see the ones who love objectives, and are very useful when they are on your team and very dangerous when they are the enemy, but they can't win alone and team support is crucial.

There are four types of player's mindsets that I find very detrimental to PVP:

1. AFK-ers - goes without saying
2. Defeatists - those who give up at the very first sign of trouble
3. Blamers - those who blame everyone but themselves for the team's failure (though, numbers often tell a different story at the end of the game)
4. Combinations of 1&3, or 2&3 - which makes sense, since it's not easy too fight while writing long angry passages in chat

There is one more type which is very annoying - those who try to teach everyone how to play (while being obviously new themselves)

Those who don't know the rules, can learn them. Those who ignore objectives today, can change their minds tomorrow. Those who are under-geared can get better gear over time. But those who believe everything is supposed to be about them are much harder to deal with.

I've been here since 2013, so your point is...?

Edited April 2 by VegaMist
Typos (it's always typos)

[Luciferior]

@VegaMist I am seeing alot of the same trend with some of these folks lol a pretense for they like PvP but the bottom line is always the rewards

Its not even worth it to engage them in dialogue... good thing the forums have a block list

You can tell who actually likes PvP and wants it to recover from its current state and you can tell who is motivated by the rewards...

If those rewards were earned I wouldnt mind so much but the fact I can lose my way thru these seasons earn tokens and get stuff from the vendor...

Part of me wonders how many of these folks were around for ranked and actually qued to win matches and earn those rewards that seem to be handed out now with minimal effort

I bet you if I made a thread asking for a PvE season that had replica versions of Operation drops to be sold at vendors via tokens That I could obtain by fighting the boss of a operation on story mode or dying at the boss for a certain duration of time..

And get replica versions of all those super rare coveted drops that only come from hard modes....

The titles the cosmetic skins mounts all of it ....and ofc my beloved wings of the architech that I drool over everytime I see someone flying around on lol

That I am sure those drops are a pain to get..

That request would provoke a unified NO! from the end game PvE community and rightfully so

But people dont seem to mind coming into PvP intentionally afking not playing the match at all still getting tokens for those replica ranked rewards...

Funny how that works aint it lol

After all Operations are the end game for PvE

Just like Ranked was the end game for PvP 

Ill admit times like this I would pay for some developer interaction on this particular issue and hear their reasoning for the current status quo

If I want the rewards from end game PvE I have to learn the mechanics parse decently Id have to get sweaty to get them

Yet on the reverse side If I was just a Pver I can come into PvP not learn any of the mechanics not understand anything PvP related I could afk pike and die consistently 12 matches per weekly and earn progress for the PvP seasons which is the gate way to the replica Ranked Season rewards that required players to place good

How about it Broadsword? Yal claim to read these threads here is a perfect time to step in and set the record straight...

Edited April 2 by Luciferior

[Darkestmonty]

17 hours ago, Luciferior said:

@VegaMist I am seeing alot of the same trend with some of these folks lol a pretense for they like PvP but the bottom line is always the rewards

Its not even worth it to engage them in dialogue... good thing the forums have a block list

You can tell who actually likes PvP and wants it to recover from its current state and you can tell who is motivated by the rewards...

If those rewards were earned I wouldnt mind so much but the fact I can lose my way thru these seasons earn tokens and get stuff from the vendor...

Part of me wonders how many of these folks were around for ranked and actually qued to win matches and earn those rewards that seem to be handed out now with minimal effort

I bet you if I made a thread asking for a PvE season that had replica versions of Operation drops to be sold at vendors via tokens That I could obtain by fighting the boss of a operation on story mode or dying at the boss for a certain duration of time..

And get replica versions of all those super rare coveted drops that only come from hard modes....

The titles the cosmetic skins mounts all of it ....and ofc my beloved wings of the architech that I drool over everytime I see someone flying around on lol

That I am sure those drops are a pain to get..

That request would provoke a unified NO! from the end game PvE community and rightfully so

But people dont seem to mind coming into PvP intentionally afking not playing the match at all still getting tokens for those replica ranked rewards...

Funny how that works aint it lol

After all Operations are the end game for PvE

Just like Ranked was the end game for PvP 

Ill admit times like this I would pay for some developer interaction on this particular issue and hear their reasoning for the current status quo

If I want the rewards from end game PvE I have to learn the mechanics parse decently Id have to get sweaty to get them

Yet on the reverse side If I was just a Pver I can come into PvP not learn any of the mechanics not understand anything PvP related I could afk pike and die consistently 12 matches per weekly and earn progress for the PvP seasons which is the gate way to the replica Ranked Season rewards that required players to place good

How about it Broadsword? Yal claim to read these threads here is a perfect time to step in and set the record straight...

you shouldn't assume everyone that has an opinion about SWTOR PvP is pretending to enjoy it. I grind PvP for tech frags, conquest points, and currently for PvP season. I don't find PvP rewarding because good games are rare due to a barely functional matchmaking while individual performance means nothing when your team intentionally ignores objectives to play team death match or is cloaked around the map AFKing.

It's gotten to the point where it is so unenjoyable I stream line how quickly I can finish dailies and weeklies and ignore everything else at this point.

 

Edited April 3 by Darkestmonty

[Wulfurkin]

14 hours ago, Luciferior said:

@VegaMist I am seeing alot of the same trend with some of these folks lol a pretense for they like PvP but the bottom line is always the rewards

Its not even worth it to engage them in dialogue... good thing the forums have a block list

You can tell who actually likes PvP and wants it to recover from its current state and you can tell who is motivated by the rewards...

If those rewards were earned I wouldnt mind so much but the fact I can lose my way thru these seasons earn tokens and get stuff from the vendor...

Part of me wonders how many of these folks were around for ranked and actually qued to win matches and earn those rewards that seem to be handed out now with minimal effort

I bet you if I made a thread asking for a PvE season that had replica versions of Operation drops to be sold at vendors via tokens That I could obtain by fighting the boss of a operation on story mode or dying at the boss for a certain duration of time..

And get replica versions of all those super rare coveted drops that only come from hard modes....

The titles the cosmetic skins mounts all of it ....and ofc my beloved wings of the architech that I drool over everytime I see someone flying around on lol

That I am sure those drops are a pain to get..

That request would provoke a unified NO! from the end game PvE community and rightfully so

But people dont seem to mind coming into PvP intentionally afking not playing the match at all still getting tokens for those replica ranked rewards...

Funny how that works aint it lol

After all Operations are the end game for PvE

Just like Ranked was the end game for PvP 

Ill admit times like this I would pay for some developer interaction on this particular issue and hear their reasoning for the current status quo

If I want the rewards from end game PvE I have to learn the mechanics parse decently Id have to get sweaty to get them

Yet on the reverse side If I was just a Pver I can come into PvP not learn any of the mechanics not understand anything PvP related I could afk pike and die consistently 12 matches per weekly and earn progress for the PvP seasons which is the gate way to the replica Ranked Season rewards that required players to place good

How about it Broadsword? Yal claim to read these threads here is a perfect time to step in and set the record straight...

What i dont understand is why you differentiate so much between the people who play the pve content and those who pvp. Swtor is all pve content, its numerous raids and large story will have players engaged with the ai for most of the time they play this game. Pvp is more like a minigame, its even stated ingame as a 'combat simulation' which tells me the devs see it as a training place to get better at the game in general and not as a focus or something to be treated as endgame content. I do think actually getting better at pvp should be rewarded but not at the cost of participation rewards, especially considering the poor state of the q which leaves the majority of players ineffective during the time they are in matches. What i think is most important for anyone on this forums is the realisation that pve and pvp are not on equal footing, never have been and never will be. The game isnt designed this way and its best to accept that.