PvP is such a slog for most players who don't PvP all the time solution suggestions inside.

[Argomemnon]

Skipping the fact that I'm at 26% wins in arena and 48% in war zone for now. I have noticed many matches are complete blowouts. No longer do you really see close matches up till the end but matches decided almost within the first minute you know if you are going to win or lose. And its a country mile on how close things are at the end. Add in the fact teams can start with a player short its nearly an instant loss. The PvP seasons objectives don't have enough variety of stuff to do other than slog through hoping to win. for me that is at least 16 arenas @ 26% to finish that weekly objective. I get wanting to make us play longer because it you are in the game longer, however this hurts the players with limited play time. I spent 7 hours straight trying to get 4 weekly objectives done and barely got it done. Personally I don't find that fun. Often times the wait times to get into the match on my server is longer than the match itself. I understand its supposed to be a challenge. Making players dependent on others play and their reward is a bit harsh sounding to me. I have a few proposed changes that I think players would be happier with. I think I'd be happy with a mix or even a single one of these fixes.

1. Increase the weekly point reward for objectives. I think 150-200 per would make it less daunting for players to complete the season.

2. Lower the points needed per season level. I think this would make it easier to complete the season with.

3. Reduce the number of wins needed or medals needed. Losing and not getting the 7 medals even if you were the mvp of the team means you get discouraged to play more.

4. If teams have an uneven amount of players the last player on team who joined to make them leave has to wait till teams are even to join. make them wait to join their team.

5. Maybe have a losing streak buff for players who are just getting destroyed. If you keep losing and getting grouped with a lot of the same players you had you know you will lose the match.

   I personally know players get frustrated when you can't do anything to stop a player from joining your pvp match. Weather they afk, don't do objectives, or die on purpose to lose faster isn't fun.

6. Make GSF a part of PvP seasons again. This gives players a different option to do PvP and they might enjoy it more. I know I'm not the best at PvP. I love GSF however. Queues are 45 mins plus half  of the time I swear on my server if it ever pops.

7. If players who are not good at something and are only there for the rewards and they spend more time there it affects the normal PvP'ers. I know if I'm getting argry of constantly losing over and over the veteran PvP'ers are getting annoyed at the very least. More time spent on something that you don't really want to do makes it unenjoyable for everyone involved eventually.

8. BRING BACK THE LEADERBOARDS. Possibly making a seasons previous winners display on the fleet and the current seasons standings would be a great thing to add back to the game. Who ever has the most win loss ratio for x games for the season, or highest kills per match or overall, or the most objectives. Maybe giving a title for getting within certain %'s and the best overall you can title as would be great.

 

I love the decos from these. I want to get them all. Is making other people play with me and I'm not a very good PvP'er a punishment to make me stick around longer to finish or making it easier to finish? I personally prefer PVE. There is no season for that unless you count Galactic Seasons I guess. Getting a chance to finish up deco collections is what I'm up to. I don't think its fair to others to make them pay for my less than stellar game play. I'm trying to get better, but alas its still a slog for many of us completionist players who are trying to get it all done. Thank you for your time in reading this. Here is hope a Dev will read this and see its not a complaint piece and more of a way to make all parties happy in the end.

[Samcuu]

The issue with the pvp season, as you've already admitted here yourself, is that it forces players into the queue who don't really enjoy the game mode and are just there for the rewards. I don't understand what the devs were trying to accomplish with it. They removed ranked and replaced it with this as if it would placate the ranked players or something. But now it just forces a bunch of ppl into queue as food for the veteran players who are usually grouped, and it's not pretty. 

I think u have to look at the motivation of what the devs were trying to accomplish. Did they see the pvp participation slipping and seasons was the easy solution to get more ppl into queue? Not sure tbh. 

6 hours ago, Argomemnon said:

2. Lower the points needed per season level. I think this would make it easier to complete the season with.

3. Reduce the number of wins needed or medals needed. Losing and not getting the 7 medals even if you were the mvp of the team means you get discouraged to p

Don't think this is viable depending again on what the devs are trying to accomplish here. They put 1k cap on points weekly. Which pushes me to believe they want ppl participating for the duration of the season. Plus pvp rewards a ton of conquest, tech frags ect. There are ppl who enjoy pvp like myself who hit these goals pretty easily. I don't want my rewards nerfed to make it easier for casuals who don't even like pvp. That's assuming if they lowered the required time to finish they'd most likely nerf the rewards significantly considering they've done similar things in other aspects of the game. 

 

6 hours ago, Argomemnon said:

. If teams have an uneven amount of players the last player on team who joined to make them leave has to wait till teams are even to join. make them wait to join their team.

5. Maybe have a losing streak buff for players who are just getting destroyed. If you keep losing and getting grouped with a lot of the same players you had you know you will lose the match.

These two points seem to touch on the population. The best solution I've come up with to fix a lot of the problems related to this, is cross server queueing. I'm assuming ur not on SF because pvp pops all day and night there, so I understand the frustration of queue times and wzs not even being completely full. Cross server queueing would alleviate these problems as there'd be more players in queue, matchmaker could in theory make better matches with a larger pool of players to draw from, shorter queue time etc etc. 

6 hours ago, Argomemnon said:

Make GSF a part of PvP seasons again. This gives players a different option to do PvP and they might enjoy it more. I know I'm not the best at PvP. I love GSF however. Queues are 45 mins plus half  of the time I swear on my server if it ever pops.

This request has been made previously but ignored. And i think the reasoning is because again they want ppl in the warzone queues. Allowing ppl to jump into GSF (which btw is a lot more afk friendly) to finish the pvp season is gonna dilute the queue. Maybe a seperate gsf season would be more appropriate? 

6 hours ago, Argomemnon said:

. BRING BACK THE LEADERBOARDS. Possibly making a seasons previous winners display on the fleet and the current seasons standings would be a great thing to add back to the game. Who ever has the most win loss ratio for x games for the season, or highest kills per match or overall, or the most objectives. Maybe giving a title for getting within certain %'s and the best overall you can title as would be great.

You are right about this tho there desperately needs to be a leaderboard because it would probably promote objective play in wzs as there's almost no reason to do so atm for a lot of vet pvpers, and it would def interest former ranked players who've since quit because they don't feel there is a competitive aspect of pvp without it. It wouldn't work in the current iteration of the seasons tho because you can queue 8 men in wzs and 4 man's in arenas while dodging other big premades and crushing pugs. 

My two cents on how to fix things. 

1. Cross server queues which leads to faster pops and more balanced matches at all times of the day.

2. Reduce the max number of ppl in group to 4. 8 is overkill for most vet pvpers, the matches aren't fun for anyone when its an 8 man premade against 8 pugs. Cross server would help this as well being able to match two or mutliple 4 man's against eachother wherever they may be queueing. 

3. Agree with ur point that there needs to be a leaderboard. I'm against a running tally tho just for the whole season because that opens the door for cheating/win trading. There needs to be like certain hours/days dedicated to the rated matches. Clearly the population would spike and ppl couldnt win trade as easily. I'm sure they'd come up with some idea on how to do it tho lol 😆 

Edited March 30 by Samcuu

[RACATW]

Swtor needs to track damage, healing, protection and kills percentiles of players. That's the most likely predictor of whether the match will be balanced or unbalanced.

Plus you should be restricted from stacking people in the 90%+ percentile within the same group.

 

For swtor devs:

Imagine two PvE groups are doing timed runs. One group has a bunch of nooby pug randoms. The other group has NiM hardcore raiders who have done the operation thousands of times. Who's going to be faster at it?

That's why elite players shouldn't be in groups bigger than 4. Even 4 players of the best in the game kind of breaks things.

Why not balance it more? Two tanks are already prevented from queueing together in arena. Those same two tanks could be complete noob players who are trash at PvP. If they got matched vs a veteran 4 man group, I guarentee those veterans would crush them completely.

So why aren't the best players in the game prevented from stacking their team? You already know they're the best if you track their playstats in their accounts and look for anomalies.

 

I see swtor willfully allowing veteran players to ruin PvP midbies by stacking perma 75s in a group and stack meta comps with the best players in the game while not allowing two noob tanks to queue together and limiting the number of healers.

 

Why wouldn't you build on the restrictions to account for something far more unbalanced? Matchmaking certainly fails in accounting for this imbalance already, so you may as well just add those new restrictions.

 

 

[juliushorst]

I suggested it already: cut last 10 levels of the season, leave basic armor, title and small deco as seasonal reward, make big deco and shiny version of the armor something you earn depending on your performance, like ranked rewards before seasons.

[Argomemnon]

The only reason I am even willing to do this is for the decos and also to get the old decos I didn't get to finish the cheevos on. Until they fix this I think people are going to burn out and stop playing. This will make the problem even more severe on low population servers. I just want to have a fighting chance to win. Anything less than 50/50 chance to win from beginning isn't worth playing. Completing 2 weeklies and still not maxxing out pvp seasons a week is wild but I seem to always be able to do it. I spent 7 hours last week grinding out stuff so I could get the other 200 "free" points... That is no longer a game that is a part time job at that point. I play games for fun not to stay aggravated the majority of the time cause I can't win a game to save my life. Add in the fact that players will start to be mean and lash out cause its not on a personal level of how much time you invest in to the game.

[Luciferior]

Issues are going to arise when a group of players who may not like a particular game mode participate in it regardless not because of the content but because of the rewards

If the devs are really determined with sticking out these new PvP seasons maybe they could do one for the folks who just want the decorations the current rewards via season

And then do another one for the more serious and committed players who actually like the game mode and hope for its recovery

Ill be honest and maybe its sound harsh but its what it is... I am very agitated at the concept these "PvP seasons" If they can be called that truly cater to players who do not support the game mode or even like it in general and in most circumstances wont support its recovery yet they still want the rewards

And I do not feel sympathy or even a sense of understanding for them in that regard...

To use an analogy to describe what I see here from my perspective 

I see a carcass of the game mode that was once PvP and all the people queing now for these rewards via the seasons are merely vultures in my opinion here to pick the bones clean they do not want the game mode to recover in a manner that would have them compete for those same rewards

They do not support the game mode in any positive manner yet the devs continue to cater to their mindset....

While the few remaining players of this game mode who do wish for the recovery of PvP are ignored and stuck with the choice quit the game or continue to watch this farce unfold

People who are new and want to learn it then progress in PvP I support 100% ....Other folks who just want to get the rewards and run back to PvE land to show off their ill gotten gains I do not support and utterly detest...

As an example there are rewards from end game PvE that I would love to have particularly from operations since I do not run them and in my current status unwilling to learn I will not have those rewards

But I do not shun that aspect of the game for my inability to learn it and I do not wish ill on that game mode because of my reluctance to participate and learn it so that I may in fact earn the rewards properly

Yet someone can correct me If I am wrong here but I am going to toss a hypothetical statement that a player could que the current PvP seasons and *LOSE* most of the matches and still obtain the rewards they desire without having to improve or understand the game mode

Same can be said for Galactic Star Fighter People can que fly into rocks and lose their way to completing their dailies/weeklies..

Towards the end of ranked before it closed down officially I earned my black-silver crystals by queing and trying to learn and progress forward

I got beat down and outright farmed In rank but with the help of the team I was on and the people who wanted to help me succeed in my goal I was able to get enough wins to get those crystals that I have cherished since

Yet now I can earn those very same crystals now by losing my way thru the seasons with minimal effort still get them and show them off..

An item that was once viewed as accomplishment is now reduced to be a consolation prize for merely the sake of participating...

 

 

Edited March 30 by Luciferior

[Darkestmonty]

one of the reasons PvP is a slog is the game doesn't reward playing well, only if a team wins or losses.

No matter how good you are in a warzone, unless you have 2-3 other people who know what they are doing, you can not win on your own.

So, the next best thing to do with dailies and weeklies when your team is going to lose the game is end it as quickly as possible to get that 1 point and jump to the next game since PvP does not reward you based on your own performance.

Why drag a losing game out for 15 minutes when you can end it in less than 5 minutes?

Edited March 30 by Darkestmonty

[Samcuu]

A lot of it also depends on the server u play on. If the pops take too long then yeah it can be a real slog and then ur seeing all the same ppl in a wz. On SF you get 8 to 10 different wzs popping at a time in peak hours so just through luck of the draw u can avoid an 8 man premade for example or u can at least get a variety of different teammates. 

One of things I didn't mention in my first post is that matchmaker is broken. Many ppl have said they believe it to be based upon wins, but when u have a lot of players who don't care about winning and just want to farm, have a low win % as well and it messes up the teams. So yeah matchmaker needs to be adjusted to consider that. 

Edited March 30 by Samcuu

[Luciferior]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

one of the reasons PvP is a slog is the game doesn't reward playing well, only if a team wins or losses.

No matter how good you are in a warzone, unless you have 2-3 other people who know what they are doing, you can not win on your own.

So, the next best thing to do with dailies and weeklies when your team is going to lose the game is end it as quickly as possible to get that 1 point and jump to the next game since PvP does not reward you based on your own performance.

Why drag a losing game out for 15 minutes when you can end it in less than 5 minutes?

Ill be honest I kind of wish folks like you would remain out of these discussions I have personally seen your posts where you defend players suiciding in Galactic Star Fighter because it is more "efficient"  to just end the match early

You do not seem to care about either aspect of the game mode whether it be warzone or star fighter you merely want your rewards as fast as possible

And yet for what ever reason the devs seem to encourage more players with mindsets like yours to enter PvP whether it be Warzones Or Galactic Star Fighter Not for the enjoyment of either mode but for the rewards 

Encouraging people to lose to earn their rewards is not a mindset that should be applauded it destroys the very heart of game modes like PvP and the very ideal of competition 

Granted I have no authority here to keep you from posting naturally but to quote my own self on a previous post

"People who are new and want to learn it then progress in PvP I support 100% ....Other folks who just want to get the rewards and run back to PvE land to show off their ill gotten gains I do not support and utterly detest..."

In that last part I am referring to folks like you who blatantly do not care about the game mode merely the rewards that can be obtained and you do not even show a shed of shame as you admit you are willing to lose repeatedly to obtain those rewards and encourage others to do so ...

Back when PvP was relevant to some intentionally losing matches was considered wintrading Or match manipulation now the game mode has fallen so far players like you openly call for it and justify it with the concept of it being efficient

Edited March 30 by Luciferior

[Przemo_No]

Whether it is a slog or not, depends heavily on the server and the level bracket you're playing in. For instance on Darth Malgus, lvl 80 PVP is rather healthy and pops are regular, so (Sarcasm: ON)  even if you loose all the time, it goes fast (Sarcasm: OFF)

But for lowbies it is more sloggy, and more frustrating, particularly in arenas. Not later than yesterday I participated in games where there was 2 against 4 or even 1 agains 4 (though that one was shut-down).  So, what is a complete mystery to me is the "matching" system - like it does not distribute players evenly, even whenit is obvious that 4 lvl 40 are gonna win against 2 lvl 20.  That is certainly broken.

 

Also on Shae Vizla server, one cannot run PVP season, because the matches are NOT created at all. Either because no one is interested or there are too few players around.

Strangely it was working quite well, when the server was open, but now PVP seems totally dead to me, no matter what hour i log in.

I for one was happy that the ranked was removed, because I hated it with passion. Oh, I tried it, for sure! But for a solo player not using the FOTM class, and being NOT on any voice connection, it was a nightmare. Not to mention all that cheating and match throwing.

So "no ranked" PVP is good - the consequence is that that one may be so unlucky and get stomped by the premade group, but I also witnessed PUGs vs pre-made where PUGgroup won, just because they knew what they were doing. Not to metion the pre-made arrogance.

With current population and current PVP set-up, I do not even try to find a good solution for it.

No one is going to be able to create matches with all players differing max 3 levels from each other, and being distributed evenly. And balance the classes properly. Currently it seems Madness Sorcerer is the FOTM but not for me -  I simply cannot play standing turret, casting some spells, but that's just my own problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30 by Przemo_No

[Darkestmonty]

14 minutes ago, Luciferior said:

Ill be honest I kind of wish folks like you would remain out of these discussions I have personally seen your posts where you defend players suiciding in Galactic Star Fighter because it is more "efficient"  to just end the match early

You do not seem to care about either aspect of the game mode whether it be warzone or star fighter you merely want your rewards as fast as possible

And yet for what ever reason the devs seem to encourage more players with mindsets like yours to enter PvP whether it be Warzones Or Galactic Star Fighter Not for the enjoyment of either mode but for the rewards 

Encouraging people to lose to earn their rewards is not a mindset that should be applauded it destroys the very heart of game modes like PvP and the very ideal of competition 

Granted I have no authority here to keep you from posting naturally but to quote my own self on a previous post

"People who are new and want to learn it then progress in PvP I support 100% ....Other folks who just want to get the rewards and run back to PvE land to show off their ill gotten gains I do not support and utterly detest..."

In that last part I am referring to folks like you who blatantly do not care about the game mode merely the rewards that can be obtained and you not even show a shed of shame as you admit you are willing to lose repeatedly to obtain those rewards and encourage others to do so ...

People like me still queue and still play, but when the game is a guaranteed loss, there is no reward or benefit for dragging the games out for 15 minutes.

If the dailies and weeklies were based on performance as well as wins/losses maybe less people would AFK; if games were only based on performance then there would be virtually no one AFKing through PvP to finish dailies and weeklies since AFKing wouldn't advance missions.

The problem isn't the players, the problem is the horrible system which only measures advancement based on win and loss only no matter how well or how poorly the player performance is.

You can sit there and hope every player that gives up and AFKs or self destructs stops queuing and you now have to wait longer for games or you can hope that the devs change the mission parameters so it gives people a reason to keep playing when your team is obviously going to lose.

Edited March 30 by Darkestmonty

[Luciferior]

@Darkestmonty I personally do not feel shame losing a match where I tried even if I was the only one knowing that I gave my effort to do so is enough for me whether I get the rewards at the end or not

Losing to better team or even in some cases to premades allows me to analyze what I did wrong If I did at all and gives me the opportunity to improve upon my self..

If I get on a team in a warzone that I know is going to damage farm and they have no intent on doing objectives I accept that notion right there and still try to play with the intent to win to the best of my ability..

Sometimes when I got a damage farmer guild on my team I was unsure if we would win sure enough I helped them control mid on a Hutball match when the opposing team brought the ball up that carrier got railed I got that ball a few times and I ran for that endzone..

And guess what those very same damage farmers that I was sure were going to ignore the match Supported me in the push to the endzone and we ended up winning those matches despite the notion they did not visibly seem to care about the win or not

To be clear when this happened I did not say anything in chat no one was visibly communicating I merely grabbed the ball and ran for it

The guild who ended up supported me guess who it was ... "In Biofail we trust" a guild known on star forge for damage farming 

Yet they supported me on the push for that huttball and a few other matches

Sometimes it takes a person stepping up and be willing to lead even if only for a moment to encourage others to do so...

I would have never made it past the op team without support from that guild and while maybe they did it for kills or giggles I cant say for certain what their motivation was but the result was certain

Because they supported me in that moment despite doing objectives not being something they cared for they helped me regardless and we won because of it and imo moments like that is what PvP is really about

Edited March 30 by Luciferior

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, Luciferior said:

@Darkestmonty I personally do not feel shame losing a match where I tried even if I was the only one knowing that I gave my effort to do so is enough for me whether I get the rewards at the end or not

Losing to better team or even in some cases to premades allows me to analyze what I did wrong If I did at all and gives me the opportunity to improve upon my self..

If I get on a team in a warzone that I know is going to damage farm and they have no intent on doing objectives I accept that notion right there and still try to play with the intent to win to the best of my ability..

Sometimes when I got a damage farmer guild on my team I was unsure if we would win sure enough I helped them control mid on a Hutball match when the opposing team brought the ball up that carrier got railed I got that ball a few times and I ran for that endzone..

And guess what those very same damage farmers that I was sure were going to ignore the match Supported me in the push to the endzone and we ended up winning those matches despite the notion they did not visibly seem to care about the win or not

To be clear when this happened I did not say anything in chat no one was visibly communicating I merely grabbed the ball and ran for it

The guild who ended up supported me guess who it was ... "In Biofail we trust" a guild known on star forge for damage farming 

Yet they supported me on the push for that huttball and a few other matches

Sometimes it takes a person stepping up and be willing to lead even if only for a moment to encourage others to do so...

I would have never made it past the op team without support from that guild and while maybe they did it for kills or giggles I cant say for certain what their motivation was but the result was certain

Because they supported me in that moment despite doing objectives not being something they cared for they helped me regardless and we won because of it and imo moments like that is what PvP is really about

I've been playing the same warzones and GSF since release. There is no point for a lot of players to keep a losing game going.

Scenario 1, I can keep a losing game going by dragging it out for 15-20 minutes for the slight chance we win. That's 3 points on a weekly if we turn the game around and win.

Scenario 2, I can let the game end by ignoring the enemy capturing the third turret (much like the rest of the team who are ignoring objectives so they can play Team Death Match) and let the game end in less than 5 minutes.

Even if I lose every game for the next 3 games, that can turn out to be less time than dragging out a match for an extended period of time just hoping my team gets their act together and starts playing the objectives instead of chasing enemies around to fluff their DPS numbers.

The slog for PvP for me and many others is there is no reward for personal performance. I get the same reward being the top of my team in every category as the AFKer who did nothing the whole game and stealthed into a corner from the start of the match.

Edited March 30 by Darkestmonty

[VegaMist]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

People like me still queue and still play, but when the game is a guaranteed loss, there is no reward or benefit for dragging the games out for 15 minutes.

Here is the difference - for those who genuinely love PVP, the game itself is a reward. The most satisfying matches are either the close ones, or when your team manages to overcome a much stronger enemy (sometimes, at the last few seconds). And it's even more satisfying, if you happened to be one of the people (or sometimes even that one person) who managed to tip the scale - even if you're the only one who knows it. PVP matches are always a team effort, but each individual contribution matters, so, ideally, that's where the focus should be. Rewards are a nice add-on, but that's all they are. Whenever they become a goal, the PVP mod itself takes a backseat, since you won't be as invested as you would have been if you were in it for the thrill of the game.

Edited March 30 by VegaMist

[Darkestmonty]

7 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

Here is the difference - for those who genuinely love PVP, the game itself is a reward. The most satisfying matches are either the close ones, or when your team manages to overcome a much stronger enemy (sometimes, at the last few seconds). And it's even more satisfying, if you happened to be one of the people (or sometimes even that one person) who managed to tip the scale - even if you're the only one who knows it. PVP matches are always a team effort, but each individual contribution matters, so, ideally, that's where the focus should be. Rewards are a nice add-on, but that's all they are. Whenever they become a goal, then the PVP mod itself takes a backseat, since you won't be as invested as you would have been if you were in it for the thrill of the game.

how many people do you think would queue up for PvP if all rewards were taken out of the game and PvP season no longer existed?

Here is the difference - people play for a variety of reasons, if the game is only designed for one type of player, those who love PvP unequivocally, then that game mode won't attract a diverse player pool which results in low queue numbers.

To eliminate some of the slog of grinding, system should change to start rewarding people on performance and not if they happen to end up on a team playing objectives or a team ignoring objectives to run around fluffing their DPS numbers and kill count.

Edited March 30 by Darkestmonty

[SteveTheCynic]

1 hour ago, Luciferior said:

Losing to better team or even in some cases to premades allows me to analyze what I did wrong

If you lost to a premade, what you did wrong was "I didn't bail out immediately".

[VegaMist]

10 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

how many people do you think would queue up for PvP if all rewards were taken out of the game and PvP season no longer existed?

Here is the difference - people play for a variety of reasons, if the game is only designed for one type of player, those who love PvP unequivocally, then that game mode won't attract a diverse player pool which results in low queue numbers.

To eliminate some of the slog of grinding, system should change to start rewarding people on performance and not if they happen to end up on a team playing objectives or a team ignoring objectives to run around fluffing their DPS numbers and kill count.

You know, there was a time when there were no rewards in PVP, and it was extremely popular (that's when I started, btw). And, there are still people queuing up between the seasons, so rewards are definitely not everything. Do rewards bring more people in? Sure they do. And if they come for rewards, but stay for the game itself - everyone is better off for it. But, if all your focus is on "what will I get out of it", then the mod will feel sluggish, boring, and unsatisfying, since all you want is to get out of there as quickly as possible. And, btw, you will be contributing to it being sluggish and boring by giving up too early - been in plenty of matches that could have been won if not for half of the team giving up at the first sign of trouble.

[VegaMist]

15 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

If you lost to a premade, what you did wrong was "I didn't bail out immediately".

It's absolutely possible to win against a premade, even with no premades (or a single 2-person premade) on your team - been there, done that. The more you play (or even lose) against an any given premade, the more you understand the strategies they use, and then you can adjust your strategy accordingly.

Edited March 30 by VegaMist

[Darkestmonty]

Just now, VegaMist said:

You know, there was a time when there were no rewards in PVP, and it was extremely popular (that's when I started, btw). And, there are still people queuing up between the seasons, so rewards are definitely not everything. Do rewards bring more people in? Sure they do. And if they come for rewards, but stay for the game itself - everyone is better off for it. But, if all your focus is on "what will I get out of it", then the mod will feel sluggish, boring, and unsatisfying, since all you want is to get out of there as quickly as possible. And, btw, you will be contributing to it being sluggish and boring by giving up too early - been in plenty of matches that could have been won if not for half of the team giving up at the first sign of trouble.

For as long as I can remember there was always a PvP reward. The earliest was PvP gear with expertise and weeklies.

Even if SWTOR 1.0 had no PvP rewards like gearing or weeklies, that was 12 years ago when the game was new and shiny and required over 200 server to house the player base.

The slog still remains, personal performance does not matter with the current PvP dailies and weeklies. The only thing dailies and weeklies track is win and loss which leads to apathy when your team has already lost the game.

 

[Luciferior]

@SteveTheCynic I realize it was probably satire but I dont personally believe in bailing out 

Premades are a constant of PvP now unless broadsword decides to do something if they dont thats what it is

But truly if I have to bail out because op team has a premade then I might as well never que again..

Beating them is a bonus if we win but my goal is to enjoy PvP for the competition and the fun of the fights lopsided or not 

Premades might beat me down and farm me but they will never break me or dictate whether I decide to que for PvP or not and thats something every person imo should ask them selves

If they will simply resign to not pvping or giving up during the match because they feel it is hopeless even if they try.

I would rather go down fighting even if the fight is futile and I have no chance of winning I dont believe in grabbing my ankles and bending over

I might not beat them but I can annoy the hell out of them pick a target and hang off them with snare spam interupts and CC spam and they gota drag my ass across that map or focus me over other people

And if I make them divert their attention to me I accomplish my goal make them use all their dcds cooldowns burn all their bars trying to take me down...

They can kill me a 100 times every match its fine because I can take it

[Stradlin]

13 hours ago, Argomemnon said:

 

6. Make GSF a part of PvP seasons again. This gives players a different option to do PvP and they might enjoy it more. I know I'm not the best at PvP. I love GSF however. Queues are 45 mins plus half  of the time I swear on my server if it ever pops.

 

It is so frustrating they didn't go through with this. Reasons they stated  for giving it a pass were pretty nonsensical in books of anyone familiar with GSF. 

GSF is only part of this game where everything present has been  made 100% purely with pvp in mind. Yet, it is excluded from pvp season. This borderlines a punchline of some joke rly.

 

 

I think overall experience in ground pvp&GSF alike would benefit from disabling join-as-group feature entirely. Though I recognize this is a pretty controversial and divisive topic and they'll likely never do it.I Regardless it is usually  very boring to face some excellent 4+++ person premades.  

Edited March 31 by Stradlin

[VegaMist]

4 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

For as long as I can remember there was always a PvP reward. The earliest was PvP gear with expertise and weeklies.

Even if SWTOR 1.0 had no PvP rewards like gearing or weeklies, that was 12 years ago when the game was new and shiny and required over 200 server to house the player base.

The slog still remains, personal performance does not matter with the current PvP dailies and weeklies. The only thing dailies and weeklies track is win and loss which leads to apathy when your team has already lost the game.

 

I don't consider PVP gear or any gear for that matter a reward - gear is a necessity. It's more of a handicap until you're fully geared, so gearing up just allows you to function at your full potential. Special mounts, or cosmetics-only armor, or even rare-colored crystals are rewards - not the gear.

Now, for the personal performance to matter, it doesn't need to be recognized by the system (it doesn't need to be recognized by anybody) - it should matter to you. PVP is a team game. Any win or loss is a team effort - even if you might have been the one to open that door that made a difference, or scored that last huttball right before the match ended. When a soccer team wins a Championship, the whole team gets the cup - not the individual players. You're concerned with individual recognition which doesn't quite work in team sports.

For PVP to become about individuals, they'd need to add a one-on-one dueling mode with it's separate progression track.

Edited March 31 by VegaMist

[Darkestmonty]

11 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

I don't consider PVP gear or any gear for that matter a reward - gear is a necessity. It's more of a handicap until you're fully geared, so gearing up just allows you to function at your full potential. Special mounts, or cosmetics-only armor, or even rare-colored crystals are rewards - not the gear.

Now, for the personal performance to matter, it doesn't need to be recognized by the system (it doesn't need to be recognized by anybody) - it should matter to you. PVP is a team game. Any win or loss is a team effort - even if you might have been the one to open that door that made a difference, or scored that last huttball right before the match ended. When a soccer team wins Olympics, the whole team gets the cup - not the individual players. You're concerned with individual recognition which doesn't quite work in team sports.

For PVP to become about individuals, they'd need to add a one-on-one dueling mode with it's separate progression track.

you said no reward, the reward for weeklies and dailies back then were pvp tokens to get gear and credits which we were all short of at release.

The point remains, pvp is currently a slog for many because winning and losing is all that matters for dailies and weeklies. Personal performance is ignored so even if you are the top in multiple categories for your team, you are going to receive the same reward as the person AFKing from the start of the game.

So, why waste effort and drag on games that are already lost extending the grind further?

Edited March 31 by Darkestmonty

[VegaMist]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

you said no reward, the reward for weeklies and dailies back then were pvp tokens to get gear and credits which we were all short of at release.

I already said I consider gear to be a necessity - not a reward. Same way as skates are a necessity for a skater.

2 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

The point remains, pvp is currently a slog for many because winning and losing is all that matters for dailies and weeklies. Personal performance is ignored so even if you are the top in multiple categories for your team, you are going to receive the same reward as the person AFKing from the start of the game.

So, basically, you want some sort of unknowledgment from an algorithm regarding if you are good or not? And you can't know or get better without some special reward? Is that what you're saying? No wonder you don't like PVP. You're in it for the wrong reasons.

2 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

So, why waste effort and drag on games that are already lost extending the grind further?

Because every game teaches you something - losses more so than wins. And because that exact attitude is what makes PVP sluggish and boring.

[Darkestmonty]

12 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

I already said I consider gear to be a necessity - not a reward. Same way as skates are a necessity for a skater.

So, basically, you want some sort of unknowledgment from an algorithm regarding if you are good or not? And you can't know or get better without some special reward? Is that what you're saying? No wonder you don't like PVP. You're in it for the wrong reasons.

Because every game teaches you something - losses more so than wins. And because that exact attitude is what makes PVP sluggish and boring.

I want to be rewarded for my participation in the game like how it works with PvP season or Galactic Season PvP conquest goals. With those weeklies players are rewarded for obtaining a certain threshold of medals. It's not a perfect system and medals need a bit of reworking, especially for GSF, but using medals as a baseline to finish dailies and weeklies would reward players who actually play the game versus players who completely ignore objectives or AFK from the start of a match finishing their dailies and weeklies 1 loss at a time with zero participation.

Rewarding participation in Warzones and GSF would go a long way in reducing the slog in PvP and make participation worth it for those who aren't learning something new and wonderful every win or loss... you know, the people who have been playing the same unchanged warzone and GSF maps for over a decade.

 

Edited March 31 by Darkestmonty