Conquest Changes Following 7.4.1

[AFadedMemory]

3 minutes ago, DHTarez said:

The thing is this very process has been in the game since reputation was introduced with the Return of the Gree in patch 1.7 back in Feb. 2013.  You could run the Gree event on every character, hit the max rep for week and keep collecting tokens as you keep playing the event. 

I’m not saying token stacking is a bad thing. Hell token consumption use to be the only way to progress through reputation tracks (they didn’t consume automatically)

however before the conquest objectives people were stockpiling the tokens to progress through the reputation track as fast as possible( like you said ) Now people only use the needed amount to get the objective not to hit the weekly cap. 
 

the problem is the conquest points not the ability to to be reward for playing an event after hitting it’s weekly cap

[lingburger]

Everyone needs to read my post here https://forums.swtor.com/topic/934421-the-death-of-small-guilds/#comment-9807918

As I pointed out in that post, the Reputation CQ reduction is the final nail in the coffin.

Anyone that has a personal guild (I do because I have multiple accounts and play several at once) or a small guild that caters for a group of friends is going to struggle getting the Perks unlocked.

Its that simple..

DEVS DO NOT LISTEN NOR DO THEY CARE WHAT WE SAY.

[captainbladejk]

4 hours ago, AFadedMemory said:

This is exactly why the nerf exists. Players exploit the weekly cap’s generosity of token giving (Which keeps it from being a real cap that prevents any form of progress once reached) then use those token to progress and profit in a way that was not intended. 
 

By getting rid of that motivating factor the tokens will be obtained/used for their intended purpose.

I don't know where you're getting your definition of exploit, but that's not how exploits work. The devs are the ones who designed the rep system and they are the ones who made it possible to buy up tokens and sit on them for later. They are the ones who made different denominations of rep token so it can go fast or slow. So contrary to popular belief, yes it was and still is working as intended if folks want to sit on some tokens. If they didn't want people doing it they shouldn't have given the option in the first place. They do not get to make something, then turn around and throw a hissy fit when players play exactly as designed and say "no not like that" and disrespect players in the process. An exploit would be if I found a way to make it give me rep tokens and OP Catalysts at the same time. Sitting on tokens as their system was designed to allow, is NOT an exploit, not even close. 

If a dev doesn't want people doing something, be it smaller modder level like what I do or full on studio production, if I don't want people doing something I flat out don't give them the option to do it. I could build a story map level and give them two paths to take, an easier path or a harder one. No matter how fun I think the hard one is and how much I may want people to go that way, I have to be prepared for the fact not everyone is going to go that way. If you're going to give people multiple choices as a dev, you have to be prepared for the fact not everyone is going to choose what you would choose or do what you would do. To give people choices, then turn around and get mad because people picked your least favorite of the bunch and throw a tantrum like they've been doing is beyond arrogant and out of touch. 

If you want to say it's a little cheesy to sit on tokens and pop the 43k token, sure I'll agree it's a little cheesy, but at no time ever was that an exploit. If they didn't want people to do that they shouldn't have given people the options to do it to start with. And if they thought it was an issue they should've done it YEARS ago and addressed it then. No it was nerfed because they thought people would just roll over and accept it and grind even more, and they've found out that's not the case. Now they're having to backtrack some and they're losing money. Even then who is hurt by someone getting 43k a day from a rep token? Who's gameplay is effected? Are they stealing resources from you? Are they somehow locking you out of content? You're way too concerned with what other people doing when it has literally zero effect on you. 

[Darviset]

3 hours ago, AFadedMemory said:

By getting rid of that motivating factor the tokens will be obtained/used for their intended purpose.

You remove my motivation to chase content. I'd have never done the swoop event at all if not for the Advancement: Reputation objective being what it was. So I have to assume that keeping the little guy down (Rep Nerf) is more important than having the community experience the content SWTOR has to offer. As such, Rep is dead to me. No point in chasing it.

[Delfiious]

How about come up with a new reputation rank beyond legendary?

Edited April 2 by Delfiious

[captainbladejk]

3 hours ago, Delfiious said:

How about come up with a new reputation rank beyond legendary?

Or just make them infinitely cyclable with additional levels being for prestige type stuff. Benefits stop scaling at legendary like now. 

[Traceguy]

infinitely-cyclable rep points would help in the current state of the game, but it still won't offset the loss of a GS Rep track, or the loss of the original Conquest Point value paid for rep.

Unless 7.4.1c is going to offer us more than projected by in the last post by @EricMusco, offsetting this loss is something BS has failed to address, yet.

The infinite heroic thing won't help for 2 reasons.

1.  Our alts under level 50 could already do this before the nerf if we were starving for more conquest points. Those who took advantage of this aren't getting additional time in their day, so they likely won't see much if any increase at all.
2.  Getting 5k per heroic would require +9 additional heroics per day on top of the heroics you were already doing (+8 if you used a rep token).

Then there's their Galactic seasons rep points.

• Not only does one of these objectives fail to use the 150% SH, they fail to add up to even half of the CQP from rep gain, and were not even planned out correctly for those who complete their weeklies in under 7 days.
• These 'offsets' are not applicable in the off season.

 

If BS is serious about offsetting the points they've taken away, they need to continue buffing current conquest objectives or adding additional opportunities more than just giving levels 50+ access to objectives those under 50 already have. Moving our stronghold bonus beyond 150% would quickly offset any loss. We've given them plenty of viable suggestions so far. Sadly 7.4.1c looks to only be taking 1 of those. I'm going to have to wait until the patch notes are released to really critique any further. At this point, I can only hope the 7.4.1c patch notes surprise us with more conquest improvements then the one posted here by Eric.

 

 

Edited April 2 by Traceguy

[captainbladejk]

1 hour ago, Traceguy said:

infinitely-cyclable rep points would help in the current state of the game, but it still won't offset the loss of a GS Rep track, or the loss of the original Conquest Point value paid for rep.

I'm saying do both. Revert the nerf and put it back to 43k then do infinitely cyclable reps. Now you have something for people to log in and do and it makes the rep token a neutral objective that either side can do at any time. Would open up some points to start closing that 1.2m gap between pvp and pve. Even if they don't do the infinitely cycling rep levels, they still need to revert the nerf and add some other stuff, that I would say we agree on. 

[Darev]

6 hours ago, lingburger said:

Everyone needs to read my post here https://forums.swtor.com/topic/934421-the-death-of-small-guilds/#comment-9807918

As I pointed out in that post, the Reputation CQ reduction is the final nail in the coffin.

Anyone that has a personal guild (I do because I have multiple accounts and play several at once) or a small guild that caters for a group of friends is going to struggle getting the Perks unlocked.

Its that simple..

DEVS DO NOT LISTEN NOR DO THEY CARE WHAT WE SAY.

Are you kidding?

It will take more in game time, but this makes it easier, MUCH easier, just with the infinite 5k for heroics alone.

Yeah, it's a grind, and tedious, and boring...but as many alts as you want to make / have time for can complete conquest each and every single week.   20 toons = 20 flagship encryptions each week.     Before this change, how it is right now (last day before update) you couldn't possibly get as much as you should be able to starting tomorrow.

[Thraka]

12 minutes ago, Darev said:

Are you kidding?

It will take more in game time, but this makes it easier, MUCH easier, just with the infinite 5k for heroics alone.

Yeah, it's a grind, and tedious, and boring...but as many alts as you want to make / have time for can complete conquest each and every single week.   20 toons = 20 flagship encryptions each week.     Before this change, how it is right now (last day before update) you couldn't possibly get as much as you should be able to starting tomorrow.

It doesn't matter. It's unacceptable. I am not grinding longer to do the same thing that I did for years and it wasn't an issue, and I absolutely won't PAY for the privilege to grind longer. I want back the ability to hit conquest goals on my 8 characters without spending more time than before or I simply won't bother.

The breaking point issue IS the amount of in game time that has been added to reach the same goals,

[captainbladejk]

1 hour ago, Darev said:

Are you kidding?

It will take more in game time, but this makes it easier, MUCH easier, just with the infinite 5k for heroics alone.

Yeah, it's a grind, and tedious, and boring...but as many alts as you want to make / have time for can complete conquest each and every single week.   20 toons = 20 flagship encryptions each week.     Before this change, how it is right now (last day before update) you couldn't possibly get as much as you should be able to starting tomorrow.

If you like doing heroics this is a step in the right direction. Thing is though not everyone likes doing heroics. If you honestly think people are going to do 72 (imp) or 70 (republic) heroics per day you've lost your mind. "Just do heroics" is not an answer. As another has already said, why am I going to pay to do more work when it was never an issue for years with me doing 43k per day for a rep token? They had YEARS to fix it if they wanted to. They could've made it 43k once a week but they didn't, they could've nerfed it years ago, but they didn't. It only became an "issue" when they decided everyone needs to grind more because of whatever reason for their metrics. 

No one is going to grind heroics for multiple hours per day on multiple toons just to break even with what they had before, nor should they have to. There was no valid reason to nerf it at all as it hurt no one. Also we've just seen 2 things at the time of this post since we don't have full patch notes. I was already completing 25 toons in a week as it was. Why am I going to play multiple hours longer per week just for the same results when for years it wasn't an issue? 

This on its own does NOT close the 1.2m point gap between pvp and pve, not by a long shot. 

Edited April 2 by captainbladejk

[Darev]

2 minutes ago, captainbladejk said:

If you like doing heroics this is a step in the right direction. Thing is though not everyone likes doing heroics. If you honestly think people are going to do 72 (imp) or 70 (republic) heroics per day you've lost your mind. "Just do heroics" is not an answer. As another has already said, why am I going to pay to do more work when it was never an issue for years with me doing 43k per day for a rep token? They had YEARS to fix it if they wanted to. They could've made it 43k once a week but they didn't, they could've nerfed it years ago, but they didn't. It only became an "issue" when they decided everyone needs to grind more because of whatever reason for their metrics. 

No one is going to grind heroics for multiple hours per day on multiple toons just to break even with what they had before, nor should they have to. There was no valid reason to nerf it at all as it hurt no one. Also we've just seen 2 things at the time of this post since we don't have full patch notes. I was already completing 25 toons in a week as it was. Why am I going to play multiple hours longer per week just for the same results when for years it wasn't an issue? 

This on its own does NOT close the 1.2m point gap between pvp and pve, not by a long shot. 

Let me ask you this, and maybe it's just an issue of quantity.

Are you doing this to get 3-4 "free" encryptions each week?  And by "free" I mean regarding time spent in game.  Toon 1 (days 1 & 2) 2x rep token / companion boost (you can do this 3 times each week) and then a 4th doing some of the left over?

if that's what you're referring to, then absolutely, the change to heroics isn't going to do anything for you.

That's not what I do, at least not on the servers I'm focusing on trying to unlock private guild ship rooms.

I'm meeting conquest objectives on multiple toons each day.   The rep token granting 45k CQ helps speed it up.  But that's good for one toon each day.  When I'm doing 2-3 toons, each day, the 3rd toon is generally more difficult.  If I try to stretch it out to 4 toons per day, which I've been able to do, it's only on weeks where there have been high value solo friendly points.

I have been able to, with only two accounts, make the 5 million cq in a week.   It is something I can do only during certain invasions, but I've done it a few times.

With this change, and I'm going to test it soon, I should be able to do it each and every week. 

 

So...yeah...we may be debating apples and oranges.

[captainbladejk]

1 hour ago, Darev said:

Let me ask you this, and maybe it's just an issue of quantity.

Are you doing this to get 3-4 "free" encryptions each week?  And by "free" I mean regarding time spent in game.  Toon 1 (days 1 & 2) 2x rep token / companion boost (you can do this 3 times each week) and then a 4th doing some of the left over?

This tells me that you believe rep tokens magically spawn in one's inventory and that's not how it works. Typically most of my rep tokens came from flashpoints and picking up things like Dark Spores as just one example, or other content with them. So by no means is it "free". Assuming I popped a 43k rep token each day that's a total of 301k points, or 3 toons I could've completed with that. In order to even pop those tokens to start with I had to farm the token out. So long as people aren't using exploits or cheating somehow to get their toons to conquest, it's really none of your business what I do. So those "free" encryptions are not actually free. 

1 hour ago, Darev said:

if that's what you're referring to, then absolutely, the change to heroics isn't going to do anything for you.

That's not what I do, at least not on the servers I'm focusing on trying to unlock private guild ship rooms.

I'm meeting conquest objectives on multiple toons each day.   The rep token granting 45k CQ helps speed it up.  But that's good for one toon each day.  When I'm doing 2-3 toons, each day, the 3rd toon is generally more difficult.  If I try to stretch it out to 4 toons per day, which I've been able to do, it's only on weeks where there have been high value solo friendly points.

You need to understand something, you and I doing 20+ toons a week are the exception and not the rule. The average player is going to do this. Right now I do/did it because my time permits currently. While as I said above it's none of your business how I conquest my toons out so long as it's legitimately done, I will answer for the sake of discussion. 

Generally I would pop a rep token and a couple neutral objectives such as expanding a stronghold (at least until I ran out of expansions), maybe a companion influence objective or a couple of others I could knock out. From there I would start my flashpoint circuit to do Socialite 1 and Socialite 2, which would award around 8k points per flashpoint and maybe pop some other objectives if they were available. I would mix in the Makeb patrol for toons capable of doing it. From there I would supplement with the "do a heroic on (planet)" quest for 5k, along with Defeat foes Grade 1 and 2 for 15.5k on a couple of planets. If I needed commendations I was always free do do additional heroics. Between grinding some flashpoints, hitting a few neutral objectives, and a select few planets I was averaging about 4 to 5 toons a day. Sometimes it took me 5 days to conquest out if I was going at it as hard as I could, sometimes it was all the way up to reset. 

Note those are just the daily objectives and does not count things like weeklies for nuking world bosses or similar. As to where I get the resources to do some of those things, I'm a founder that's been here since beta, trust me I have resources I can use. 

1 hour ago, Darev said:

I have been able to, with only two accounts, make the 5 million cq in a week.   It is something I can do only during certain invasions, but I've done it a few times.

With this change, and I'm going to test it soon, I should be able to do it each and every week. 

 

So...yeah...we may be debating apples and oranges.

If you're able to do that and that's what you want to do with your time, then by all means you do you. 

The thing I take issue with is that you and I are both farming our points legitimately. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't be allowed to do whatever it is you do to get there. However I'm being told by certain elements that because they don't like how I farm my points that I'm doing it wrong and my play should be nerfed because they have decided they don't like it, even though it has literally ZERO effect on them. THAT is part of my issue. I don't care if someone farms 5m+ points in pure pvp in a week or pve so long as it was done legitimately. Different folks play the game differently and there's nothing wrong with that. 

What I DO however mind is when people try to demand my gameplay be nerfed and act like they should be given twice the points or more as me for the same amount of work. 

[Toraak]

9 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Yep, I agree with your statement here.

Also when I suggested that the Advancement: Reputation be set to a value (raise my 100 point was my suggestion, but it could be anything) It was shot down as unacceptable.

So a solution that still gives a decent amount of conquest, but is not what players had before, was unacceptable to them.

Yep I had made a suggestion of raising the rep tokens up to 20k-25k. But the majority of people thought that was unreasonable. 

 

 

[captainbladejk]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

Yep I had made a suggestion of raising the rep tokens up to 20k-25k. But the majority of people thought that was unreasonable. 

It's unreasonable because it's still a nerf for no valid reason. It's like you having $100 in cash in your wallet, getting mugged, then the mugger says "you know what, keep $30". He still stole $70 from you and you're still down on cash. The devs designed the system as it was and is today. They are the ones that made it possible to stockpile rep tokens and they've had YEARS to correct this if they thought it was an issue. They could've made it 43k a week, or could've nerfed it back then but they didn't. Yet suddenly now it's an issue? Sorry but no, that's not how that works. They're just wanting people to grind more and rightfully got called out on it for trying to stealth nerf it in. Rep tokens don't just magically appear in inventory, they must be earned. And if the devs thought it was too easy to get rep tokens, they were the ones that made it that easy to get the tokens to start with. If they thought it was too easy they should've made it harder to get the tokens. You don't create a system you believe too easy, then get mad that the players play the game exactly as you designed it, then throw a tantrum blaming the players like they've done here. 43k rep tokens hurt no one at all and there was no valid reason to nerf it. 

[Darev]

8 minutes ago, captainbladejk said:

This tells me that you believe rep tokens magically spawn in one's inventory and that's not how it works. Typically most of my rep tokens came from flashpoints and picking up things like Dark Spores as just one example, or other content with them. So by no means is it "free". Assuming I popped a 43k rep token each day that's a total of 301k points, or 3 toons I could've completed with that. In order to even pop those tokens to start with I had to farm the token out. So long as people aren't using exploits or cheating somehow to get their toons to conquest, it's really none of your business what I do. So those "free" encryptions are not actually free. 

You need to understand something, you and I doing 20+ toons a week are the exception and not the rule. The average player is going to do this. Right now I do/did it because my time permits currently. While as I said above it's none of your business how I conquest my toons out so long as it's legitimately done, I will answer for the sake of discussion. 

Generally I would pop a rep token and a couple neutral objectives such as expanding a stronghold (at least until I ran out of expansions), maybe a companion influence objective or a couple of others I could knock out. From there I would start my flashpoint circuit to do Socialite 1 and Socialite 2, which would award around 8k points per flashpoint and maybe pop some other objectives if they were available. I would mix in the Makeb patrol for toons capable of doing it. From there I would supplement with the "do a heroic on (planet)" quest for 5k, along with Defeat foes Grade 1 and 2 for 15.5k on a couple of planets. If I needed commendations I was always free do do additional heroics. Between grinding some flashpoints, hitting a few neutral objectives, and a select few planets I was averaging about 4 to 5 toons a day. Sometimes it took me 5 days to conquest out if I was going at it as hard as I could, sometimes it was all the way up to reset. 

Note those are just the daily objectives and does not count things like weeklies for nuking world bosses or similar. As to where I get the resources to do some of those things, I'm a founder that's been here since beta, trust me I have resources I can use. 

If you're able to do that and that's what you want to do with your time, then by all means you do you. 

The thing I take issue with is that you and I are both farming our points legitimately. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't be allowed to do whatever it is you do to get there. However I'm being told by certain elements that because they don't like how I farm my points that I'm doing it wrong and my play should be nerfed because they have decided they don't like it, even though it has literally ZERO effect on them. THAT is part of my issue. I don't care if someone farms 5m+ points in pure pvp in a week or pve so long as it was done legitimately. Different folks play the game differently and there's nothing wrong with that. 

What I DO however mind is when people try to demand my gameplay be nerfed and act like they should be given twice the points or more as me for the same amount of work. 

I'm just going to comment on the 1 point I put in italics.

If I play content running PH4-LNX as a healer, I will, occasionally, get the drops to turn in for the rep.  Now I look at this as "free" because of two reasons.   1)   I'm going to do the content anyway so I'm not doing anything different... and 2) it doesn't matter, to me, which companion I use so I'll pick one I'm going to get these drops from.

You may not look at it the same way, but that's where I'm coming at.    Plus, I have lots of tokens left over from the previous Galactic Seasons on top of what I "earn" when using those companions.

 

As for the rest.   We apparently just play the game differently.    This particular Nerf, out of all of the Nerfs I've argued against in the past, and there've been many, is just not that high on my priority list.

It is for you.  So be it.

[captainbladejk]

1 hour ago, Darev said:

I'm just going to comment on the 1 point I put in italics.

If I play content running PH4-LNX as a healer, I will, occasionally, get the drops to turn in for the rep.  Now I look at this as "free" because of two reasons.   1)   I'm going to do the content anyway so I'm not doing anything different... and 2) it doesn't matter, to me, which companion I use so I'll pick one I'm going to get these drops from.

You may not look at it the same way, but that's where I'm coming at.    Plus, I have lots of tokens left over from the previous Galactic Seasons on top of what I "earn" when using those companions.

 

As for the rest.   We apparently just play the game differently.    This particular Nerf, out of all of the Nerfs I've argued against in the past, and there've been many, is just not that high on my priority list.

It is for you.  So be it.

You're certainly free to view it however you want. At the same time respectfully, words have meaning and you're using the wrong words here because free denotes it a being handed to you. if you're not doing that specific content you're not going to see those tokens. So those tokens are a result of the content you're doing. Which is why it's a bad idea to describe them as free. You still have to do work for them. 

I'm glad you recognize people play the game differently. Problem is some people can't accept that even if it doesn't effect them. They demand how myself and others play be nerfed because they don't like it. 

[Toraak]

21 minutes ago, captainbladejk said:

It's unreasonable because it's still a nerf for no valid reason. It's like you having $100 in cash in your wallet, getting mugged, then the mugger says "you know what, keep $30". He still stole $70 from you and you're still down on cash. The devs designed the system as it was and is today. They are the ones that made it possible to stockpile rep tokens and they've had YEARS to correct this if they thought it was an issue. They could've made it 43k a week, or could've nerfed it back then but they didn't. Yet suddenly now it's an issue? Sorry but no, that's not how that works. They're just wanting people to grind more and rightfully got called out on it for trying to stealth nerf it in. Rep tokens don't just magically appear in inventory, they must be earned. And if the devs thought it was too easy to get rep tokens, they were the ones that made it that easy to get the tokens to start with. If they thought it was too easy they should've made it harder to get the tokens. You don't create a system you believe too easy, then get mad that the players play the game exactly as you designed it, then throw a tantrum blaming the players like they've done here. 43k rep tokens hurt no one at all and there was no valid reason to nerf it. 

It's an MMO. Just because they designed it this way yesterday, they have the right to change it tomorrow.

 

MMO's change all the time. If you ever looked at class balance in WoW it was done every few months. One class would be OP, then ground into the dirt, and most people that played that class would change to a different class and adapt. 

 

MMO's are all about adapting to change. We know things will change at a moments notice.

 

And they were never going to put it back to the original value. If they felt it was to many points that it deserved a nerf, the best thing you could hope for was a compromise.

Edited April 2 by Toraak

[Darev]

16 minutes ago, captainbladejk said:

You're certainly free to view it however you want. At the same time respectfully, words have meaning and you're using the wrong words here because free denotes it a being handed to you. if you're not doing that specific content you're not going to see those tokens. So those tokens are a result of the content you're doing. Which is why it's a bad idea to describe them as free. You still have to do work for them. 

I'm glad you recognize people play the game differently. Problem is some people can't accept that even if it doesn't effect them. They demand how myself and others play be nerfed because they don't like it. 

If you're ever bored, go through my post history.  There are MANY posts where I tell people "When you pay my subscription fee is when you get to tell me how to play."

it's as true for you as it is for me.

[captainbladejk]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

It's an MMO. Just because they designed it this way yesterday, doesn't give them the right not to change it tomorrow.

 

MMO's change all the time. If you ever looked at class balance in WoW it was done every few months. One class would be OP, then ground into the dirt, and most people that played that class would change to a different class and adapt. 

 

MMO's are all about adapting to change. We know things will change at a moments notice.

 

And they were never going to put it back to the original value. If they felt it was to many points that it deserved a nerf, the best thing you could hope for was a compromise.

First off this isn't WoW. Second, if they thought it was an issue they should've dealt with it years ago, not when they did. The fact that it wasn't an issue for years means they lied about it being "unintended". Third, If they were going to change it and serious about wanting feedback they should've put it on the PTS before hand and PUT IT IN THE PATCH NOTES, but they didn't. They went sneaky and underhanded and expected people to roll over. It's really simple, there is no compromise to be had here. They either revert the nerf completely or give people actual variety of means to make up the point difference or people walk. If they didn't want people using that option they should've never given it. They don't get to blame players for a problem they created. 

If they're serious about adding a "variety of objectives" they need to get on with it. 

[Toraak]

4 minutes ago, captainbladejk said:

First off this isn't WoW. Second, if they thought it was an issue they should've dealt with it years ago, not when they did. The fact that it wasn't an issue for years means they lied about it being "unintended". Third, If they were going to change it and serious about wanting feedback they should've put it on the PTS before hand and PUT IT IN THE PATCH NOTES, but they didn't. They went sneaky and underhanded and expected people to roll over. It's really simple, there is no compromise to be had here. They either revert the nerf completely or give people actual variety of means to make up the point difference or people walk. If they didn't want people using that option they should've never given it. They don't get to blame players for a problem they created. 

If they're serious about adding a "variety of objectives" they need to get on with it. 

Different company, different Management now. Remember 7.4.1 was the first content that Broadsword has made, that was not already in progress already when the changeover happened.

Edited April 2 by Toraak

[captainbladejk]

Welp now we have it, and if this is all they're doing then it's as I suspected they would do. It's a dose of "take this and get lost peasants". https://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/04022024/game-update-7.4.1c

[captainbladejk]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

Different company, different Management now. Remember 7.4.1 was the first content that Broadsword has made, that wasn't not already in progress already when the changeover happened.

Irrelevant and a cop out. You don't just forget something that massive, that's either deliberate or gross incompetence on someone's part. Their actions tell us it was the first one, deliberate attempt at stealth nerf. I don't care if it's Broadsword, Bioware, Nintendo or the Force itself, you don't hide stuff like that. Previous points still stand, there is no compromise to be had, they either swallow their pride, admit they were wrong and revert the nerf or give us ways to make up the points folks actually want to do, or people walk and their game can tank. 

[Toraak]

Just now, captainbladejk said:

Irrelevant and a cop out. You don't just forget something that massive, that's either deliberate or gross incompetence on someone's part. Their actions tell us it was the first one, deliberate attempt at stealth nerf. I don't care if it's Broadsword, Bioware, Nintendo or the Force itself, you don't hide stuff like that. Previous points still stand, there is no compromise to be had, they either swallow their pride, admit they were wrong and revert the nerf or give us ways to make up the points folks actually want to do, or people walk and their game can tank. 

oh. I'm not saying it should not have been in the patch notes. Far from it. All I was saying that just because BW was fine with it the way it was, doesn't mean the new Broadsword management was, and since 7.4.1 was one of the very first patches all it's own, they may have wanted to change it.

 

It definitely should have been in the patch notes. There is no question about that.

[captainbladejk]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

oh. I'm not saying it should not have been in the patch notes. Far from it. All I was saying that just because BW was fine with it the way it was, doesn't mean the new Broadsword management was, and since 7.4.1 was one of the very first patches all it's own, they may have wanted to change it.

 

It definitely should have been in the patch notes. There is no question about that.

I'm glad we can agree it should have been in the patch notes at the very least. 
Simultaneously my previous points still stand. There was zero valid reason to fix what wasn't broke. I am not paying them the same amount of money for less game and for them to spit in my face saying what I've been doing isn't enough. If they think it paid too much and was "one and done" they don't know the game. They also said that 7.4.1c contained 2 of the changes they were going to make, implying there was more. If that's all they're doing then again it's a straight up lie to imply they were doing more. Ridiculous that they think they're entitled to people's money for less game while requiring more work.