RomanApache Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) Hey all! I'm Capt Roman: A fellow Master Mode raider and Twitch streamer here in the community! (https://twitch.tv/capt_roman) With last Tuesday's update, BroadSword has removed all operations timer achievements that were earned since January 1st. This was due to a group of players who have found an exploit that let them earn these achievements as well as the regular clears and survivings in ways that were not intended. Unfortunately, this also included removing timer achievements for players who have earned their clears legit, despite having video and parse logs of said clears. Below, I have linked parse logs and a video clear of our Dragonslayer (1/18/24) and Gate Crasher (1/11/24, clear video processing as of 12:17 AM EST. Should be available in the morning) runs, showing that we have cleared these fights legit, as well as a video proving that my characters that had the Dragonslayer/GC titles no longer having it since the update. Dragonslayer video, parse log, and DS character no longer having it: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2036941857 Parsely - Overall Summary - Replay https://youtu.be/_iwMQzWu0kY Gate Crasher full run through (will add when uploaded), parse log, and GC character no longer having it: Parsely - Overall Summary https://youtu.be/G77yh0XP8xU And so I ask Broadsword: Despite clear evidence of mine and my guild's 100% legit clears of your content, will you not reward your raider base? Are we having to run your content, earn achievements, and fear that some bad apple will come along, find an exploit, and ruin it for the rest of the raiding community? What is the point of playing the game when you are not going to be rewarded what's promised? At this point, I'm surprised there's even a raiding community left in your game, and that very well may be a reality soon. My guild progresses through these raids for MONTHS: 16+ people working on their assigned roles and spending countless hours per week watching guides, clear videos, and doing the choreography. All of this time, wasted, because some nitwit found a hole through your system. We love SWTOR and want to see it succeed, but we're finding it harder and harder to come back when something like this occurs, and this is not even the first time something like this happened. I hope this reaches the right people, and there can be a reasonable solution to this. I'm more than happy to email you more information on these runs if requested. BroadSword, please reconsider your stance on this. Edited March 14 by RomanApache 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAdmiral Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 @JackieKo @EricMusco I am hearing through my communities that this is apparently not the first time this has happened in SWTOR's history, and it fractured guilds, raiding groups and communities when it happened last time, leading them to try other games and leave SWTOR. I really hope this can be addressed or fixed en-masse, if a list of whose was wiped can be restored to those who were not meant to be a part of the exploit-based purge. If not, can you please provide the best way for players to request their titles and achievements back and what information they need to provide. Kats_tales, who often plays with Roman and streams with proof of her runs, is also experiencing the same issue and was very emotional about losing her Gatecrasher title. I worry that her and other friends I play with may not want to play difficult raiding if their progress feels invalidated or untracked. While I don't play at the higher skill level like Kat and Roman, I rely on them and players like them to share their knowledge, experience and good raiding attitude, which I also pass down to my casual raid groups. While only a small number of people are affected, as NiM players are very few, their influence and activity casts a wide net across the community in a great way. We had a nice discussion in stream today about why achievements matter. While not everyone agrees, to me the achievements are a way of proving and showing others that you've faced difficult achievements and succeeded, rather than just claiming you've done them. For others, it is a sense of progression and a type of visual checklist of what they have achieved. 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZUHFB Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I tried this too last time people were able to exploit by avoiding scaling in SnV thus getting Crests basically for free, I did not obtain any crests this way yet I lost like 11. I too had streams and logs of this, however CS said that this isn't proof because only whats in the logs of the game counts, even timestamped screenshots of chats aren't proof of insults etc. Neither were streams, clips, discord conversations or 3rd party account selling proof ToS violations. I don't think this matters that much, of course it sucks that those people lost their rewards, but the ability to get those rewards is valuable too. Not only should they be able to redo the operations, its also the only thing actually to do in the game - at least raiding wise. They will get the rewards back sooner rather than later, probably even more. They will make friends along the way and keep continuing the usual progression path, just for a bit longer which means more sub money. Other than raids there really isn't much reason to stay subbed. While its a bit nihilistic, honestly what was the expectation here? How are people disappointed by things like this (or the date night cutscene), its a risk we all knowingly take when playing this game. At the end of the day they don't need to give anything back because the people who lost it never owned it in the first place. Thus they won't. And realistically this is the closest we will get this year in terms of new raiding content. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acyishere Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Adding to the Capt Roman, my team lost 6 of their destruction incarnate titles, and the achievement. I am going to share the recordings and combat logs of these here @JackieKo : Title: Destruction Incarnate Name of the achievement: Doom's Delay Recordings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GBMnTmTX4g di 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSuWhAG8B-Q di 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5moWahn6AM di 1 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2086963429 di 6 We also have recordings of di 2 and 4 if combat logs are not enugh. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Combat Logs: https://parsely.io/parser/view/900681 https://parsely.io/parser/view/900682 di 5, (2nd one is izax relog) https://parsely.io/parser/view/900671 di 3 https://parsely.io/parser/view/900665 di 6 https://parsely.io/parser/view/900662 di 2 https://parsely.io/parser/view/900663 di 5 https://parsely.io/parser/view/900639/0 di 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Nick Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) Hello, I'm the raid lead/organizer for Roman and Kats raids. People join and play games for different reasons, one of those reasons is to achievement hunt and get raid clears. 8+ player content takes time to organize and exponentially more time and energy when it is this level of content. In this example organizing 16 folks schedules to do a 16 gate crasher run for my guild. I think our largest issue currently with the game is the lack of transparency. If the devs would have told us, oh wait there is an exploit, anything you do will be rolled back until we fix it, this problem would have never occurred. We are all raiders that stuck it out during the absolute catastrophe of the launch of 7.0 and to get this treatment in one of our "crowning" moments is a straight middle finger to our accomplishment. Sure, I can go through the process of reorganizing folks to "do it again", but what about those folks that do not have time, or cannot make that run? Is the expectation that now 3 months later I can just magically pull together the same group and just "do it again"? I feel bad for the folks that have gotten multiple timers ect in the last 3 months and have had their stuff taken away. Yeah I am upset with the treatment we have received. I feel that largely the swtor team does not care about its raiding community and this further pushes us away. All of us want this game to be the game we spend the next several years in, but that is seeming more and more like a pipe dream. Edited March 14 by Admiral_Nick 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC-Fooj Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 this aggression will not stand man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VauxAuxilary Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 As another member of this raiding community, who's legitimately received achievements & titles were removed I am flabbergasted that this was not mentioned anywhere in patch notes or acknowledged by the development team. A signal or description of intent would be the minimum ask for this community, at this point we are all just speculating that it has to do with ill-gotten timer run during this time. If this was in the works since the bug was discovered why not say so, or leave the ability to get them locked over this time. The previous dev posts on this topic in January seemed to indicate that this was resolved and in the rear view as of 1/22/24 and 1/26/24. Why are we secretly removing this almost 2 months later? https://forums.swtor.com/topic/933292-game-update-74b-coming-the-week-of-january-22nd/#comment-9797820 https://forums.swtor.com/topic/933407-fix-for-master-mode-operations-phase/#comment-9798064 The raiding community as accepted a lack of new content and the existing content riddled with bugs that have yet to be even acknowledged by the development team. All we are asking for here is a little bit of transparency. If we cannot revert these titles for legitimate clears, I assume due to being a manual effort that there's just no cycle time for, PLEASE just let us know that we are being heard and not shouting into a void. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofaJedi Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 They absolutely do not care if you got anything legitimately. their response has been clear, "if you did it once you can do it again and we genuinely do not care about the time you spent doing these things. Thank you for your money." Lost 7 Dxun timers from what I could tell back from December until patch went live. I posted videos of some timers and screenshots + logs. Response was laughable. Un-subbed and moving on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebe_ Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Hey Game Runners - This is Kat, from Kats_tales on Twitch. I am another member of the Avalon's Fury 16 man team that lost the Gatecrasher Title and Cheevo. As per Roman's and Admiral Nick's posts both here and on YouTube you can see, we have every piece of proof required to show that we worked, legitimately, to earn/complete these pieces of content. I also spent in the neighborhood of 150 hours live streaming our teams progression in the Dread Fortress to the community at large. I have been streaming my progression as a raider in the game for almost three years. I have been playing it since launch - with 10.5 years of that as a subscriber and probably over 12,000 hours played if I had to guess. I am not a SWTOR hater type player. I never really post on the forums...but, this time, I have to say that I am so incredibly disappointed by not just what happened, but how it happened. I have been a public cheerleader for this game - for 20 hours a week, for three years...and today I am really at a loss to find reasons as to how this was determined to be the best way to handle some exploit. If this is how a person who has loved this game as much as I do feels...I have to assume you are about to lose a lot of the raiding community (again). After the SnV exploit a few years ago, 5 of the 6 teams in my guild left the game, this has that same feeling of doom from among the players. I have had lots and lots of people from the community reach out to me thinking that I have some magic way to get them help. I am very sorry to say that I do not, and for that I am very sorry. It feels like there should be something that can be done to remedy it. So, I feel for all of you who, like us, worked and studied and stressed...and now feel, idk, sort of betrayed actually. So, I am sorry fellow players. I am going to validate your feelings and say - yes, this sucks. Anyway, I of course feel that ppl with the ability to prove their accomplishments ought to be able to keep them. I would ask that on your end you really consider figuring out a more just way to remove the falsely earned timers etc that some ppl got. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Nick Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 @JackieKo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6VxyRZBFM8 Parsely - Overall Summary Hi Jackie, we are not very certain on where to post information for review of our clear, so I am tossing her as this was our original post. I hope this helps to take care of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Nick Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Thanks for the consideration, we went with the current thinking and just "did it again". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saeten Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Wow, not a single developer or community support response in here? Kudos for posting detailed information for restoration. Good luck and I hope we see some progress here for y'all. Please post if you are contacted privately and have some resolution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saeten Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Ooops. they did post some communication, but no follow up in quite a bit of time. https://forums.swtor.com/topic/934244-removal-of-timer-achievements/#comment-9805584 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nee-Elder Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 3/28/2024 at 10:19 PM, Saeten said: not a single developer or community support response in here? They never post in this particular section , but they did post over in another section today--> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/934244-removal-of-timer-achievements/?do=findComment&comment=9809791 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saeten Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Yep, looks like the fix is in: Quote Hi folks, Updating this thread to inform players that Game Update 7.4.1c is now out and it contains the change that will grant eligible players the Master Mode Timer Achievements. Players will see the Achievements applied to their accounts once a character logs in. Thanks for your patience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chryptyk Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 One of my friends told me that she got her timer cheevo back, but not the title. So i guess the whole "just do it again" philosophy still applies. /puke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts