Dear Broadsword .. update to GTN has ruined my game.

[Spikanor]

i think we need to do what we always do with things we not like and there have done wrong is to keep complaining about it that there at somepoint there eye's open again and see we have make a mistake with it and we need to chance it the right way.

since we all know that complaining a lot with a lot of people about the same thing that at some point the devs become sick of it and chance it at some point to let it stop.

and thats a lesson we know from the past really good that its working more since we all remember the 6.0 amplifier sheet mass complain about it has no close option.

the 7.0 new armor system there have chance in 7.3 in the way we have told all how it has to be from the start.

so now its the turn for the GTN new chance's to complain hard and long that at some point there see from we have make a mistake with it.

sadly i wish there learn also to not ignore the PTS feedback since then you get not the big long complains in the first place if there do it right from the start.

[Sunjammer]

My thoughts so far:

• The 7 day listing benefits less active sellers (as they can now log in once a week). Previously we would see spikes on Tuesdays (reset day) when the price would be dragged down by excess supply which would slowly return to normal over the course of the week. Now prices seem to be ever decreasing which is great for buyers (at least until crafters decide it isn't worth the effort and stop crafting).
• The new UI doesn't allow viewing individual items to see when competing listings might expire. This can be a useful tool when deciding pricing. Without this information we are simply forced to undercut because we don't know if the lowest price has 7 minutes, hours, or days to run.
• The new UI doesn't accept Shift+Clicking on an item from Sell tab to populate the Buy tab. The old UI supported this and it was handy for check if items weren't selling because you've been
• The new UI doesn't accept Shift+Clicking on an item in the crafting menus to populate the Buy tab. The old UI supported this and it was handy for checking potential demand and current prices of craftable items (before you craft them).
• The new flow for sellers (i.e. mail + claim indiviually) adds pointless steps. At the very least add a claim all button or a check box system similar to the client. Better yet revert to sending proceeds by mail.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Sunjammer

[Darkestmonty]

55 minutes ago, Sunjammer said:

My thoughts so far:

• The 7 day listing benefits less active sellers (as they can now log in once a week). Previously we would see spikes on Tuesdays (reset day) when the price would be dragged down by excess supply which would slowly return to normal over the course of the week. Now prices seem to be ever decreasing which is great for buyers (at least until crafters decide it isn't worth the effort and stop crafting).
• The new UI doesn't allow viewing individual items to see when competing listings might expire. This can be a useful tool when deciding pricing. Without this information we are simply forced to undercut because we don't know if the lowest price has 7 minutes, hours, or days to run.
• The new UI doesn't accept Shift+Clicking on an item from Sell tab to populate the Buy tab. The old UI supported this and it was handy for check if items weren't selling because you've been
• The new UI doesn't accept Shift+Clicking on an item in the crafting menus to populate the Buy tab. The old UI supported this and it was handy for checking potential demand and current prices of craftable items (before you craft them).
• The new flow for sellers (i.e. mail + claim indiviually) adds pointless steps. At the very least add a claim all button or a check box system similar to the client. Better yet revert to sending proceeds by mail.

Claim all and shift click working for items outside if those in your backpack are must needed improvements.

[Anhkriva]

1 hour ago, Sunjammer said:

 

• The new flow for sellers (i.e. mail + claim indiviually) adds pointless steps. At the very least add a claim all button or a check box system similar to the client. Better yet revert to sending proceeds by mail.

There is no point in picking up a purchased item by leaving the GTN and walking 20 meters to the mailbox. Buying and receiving in one place is more logical.

[Darkestmonty]

13 minutes ago, Anhkriva said:

There is no point in picking up a purchased item by leaving the GTN and walking 20 meters to the mailbox. Buying and receiving in one place is more logical.

I hope the devs set mail notices to self delete when items are picked up. I've started completely ignoring mail at this point. Building up 100s of mail notices at this point

Edited December 13, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

17 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

I hope the devs set mail notices to self delete when items are picked up. I've started completely ignoring mail at this point. Building up 100s of mail notices at this point

this is more one of the chance's you think there can do much better of if there think more easy about it.

since i have no clue why we need to delete the mail now each time a item is sold or not has been sold but we need to claim it on the GTN self when we still need to delete the mail.

for me there are 2 options there can go with this.

option 1: keep the claim button on the GTN to claim items but the mail from the noticications that the item is sold or not has sold most have then a automatic delete function.

or option 2: remove the claim button and sent the items and credits by mail again.

 

edit: and here is the jackpot from it.

like always this has been report on the PTS GTN feedback thread so @Darkestmonty you win the jackpot with a lot of complains about the GTN new chance since its all been in your feedback GTN PTS thread.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Spikanor

[Sunjammer]

On 12/12/2023 at 2:52 AM, Darkestmonty said:

There is nothing wrong with under cutting by 1 credit. They got to the GTN after you and posted their item.

A rare case of the early bird NEVER getting the worm.

I wouldn't say there is "nothing" wrong with undercutting by a trival amount. Sure it's a valid tactic but it's definitely a Dark Side option. Why? Because it is exploiting two shortcomings of the GTN implementation, namely a) the fact that we have to pay a deposit (old GTN) or fee (new GTN) and b) the fact we cannot adjust the price of items once listed.

At least with the old GTN if you were the early bird you had the option to *shrug emoji* and wait for your listing to expire and relist at a lower amount. Now you lose the fee regardless so you better sell or you're simply wasting credits.

So you cut your profit margin to the bone and relist and one minute later someone undercuts you by 1c again because there is absolutely no reason not to.

/me quickly runs off to set all their listings to 1 day.

If Broadsword either a) got rid of the fee so we could cancel and relist for free, or b) added the ability change the price of listed items then I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

 

[Samcuu]

2 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

There is no point in picking up a purchased item by leaving the GTN and walking 20 meters to the mailbox. Buying and receiving in one place is more logical.

But it works both ways. Today I sold an item I put on the gtn like 3 days ago. Walked to the mail box cuz I had 1 notification there. Saw that I sold something then had to walk to the gtn and click several times to get to the claim window and get my credits. 

[Samcuu]

53 minutes ago, Sunjammer said:

A rare case of the early bird NEVER getting the worm.

I wouldn't say there is "nothing" wrong with undercutting by a trival amount. Sure it's a valid tactic but it's definitely a Dark Side option. Why? Because it is exploiting two shortcomings of the GTN implementation, namely a) the fact that we have to pay a deposit (old GTN) or fee (new GTN) and b) the fact we cannot adjust the price of items once listed.

At least with the old GTN if you were the early bird you had the option to *shrug emoji* and wait for your listing to expire and relist at a lower amount. Now you lose the fee regardless so you better sell or you're simply wasting credits.

So you cut your profit margin to the bone and relist and one minute later someone undercuts you by 1c again because there is absolutely no reason not to.

/me quickly runs off to set all their listings to 1 day.

If Broadsword either a) got rid of the fee so we could cancel and relist for free, or b) added the ability change the price of listed items then I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

 

I think you just have to adjust your strategy. Also it heavily depends on what you are selling. Augments for example... I would only put one or two augs up at a time and I'd only put them up for 12 hours. That way if I am undercut I can then undercut that person with another augment, and if my original aug doesn't sell I'm out a relative small amount of credits thanks to the 12 hour option charging much less. 

[SmokingLord]

53 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

But it works both ways. Today I sold an item I put on the gtn like 3 days ago. Walked to the mail box cuz I had 1 notification there. Saw that I sold something then had to walk to the gtn and click several times to get to the claim window and get my credits. 

The problem here is the mail system. How, in a high advanced technologically universe you have to walk to a "dumb terminal" to read your mail? This doesn't make any sense, its obsolete. Just do like other MMOs (GW2 for instance) and make your Mail accessible through your UI anythime and retire the "mail droid".

[OlBuzzard]

@DeannaVoyager and @LD_Little_Dragon 

I agree with both of you.  BTW .. it should be noted that the somewhat subtle message I was sending (I'll take the time ) to spell out more clearly now!

Of the complaints that have been leveled against the new format for the GTN the single biggest obstacle (and yes there are others) still remains the lack of giving people who are actually paying for the items listed the OPTION to select the item that they want to purchase.  IMO when it gets right down to it this is just simply an open door to all sorts of complaints and descension (and IMO rightly so.)  

**The single credit undercut (for lack of a better term) is little more than a cheap trick to push one seller in front of another.  ONE CREDIT IS NOT breaking the bank. 
**Furthermore, ONE credit is not an inflation buster (so skip over that argument).  Show the multiple players offerings:  not the individual one at a time page after page listings of the old system.  THAT was annoying ... VERY annoying.  The consolidation of the individual listings into one line item of the listed price was a VERY good thing! (just to be clear).
** Allowing players to see all of the listing and select the item that they WANT to purchase is without question (to me at least) the best way to go!
** As for listing players names .. IMO that is still up for debate.  To me, personally:  it's not imperative.  

Other items (I'll have to ask since I don't use the GTN anymore)
** If an item(s) do not sell is the deposit refunded?  IMO it should be since there was no transaction that took place.  TRANSACTIONS need to have deposits and taxes in place (even if I don't agree with the percentages .. still UNTIL the transaction is done (meaning the actual sale of an item) then nothing is changed hands.  IMO this also takes into consideration if someone changes their mind on what they have posted and want to sell for a different price (UP or DOWN).  
** Lastly ... I'm not going to reopen the discussion on what is the right amount of taxation in this thread!  IMO that debate will never be resolved.  Sooo ... I'm trying to simply stick to a couple of points that IMO really should be addressed.  

There are a couple of changes for the better with the new GTN.  BUT IMO ... it's being overshadowed by a couple of points of interest that really should be addressed.

Yeah .. I know.. Old dude still stuck in old school ideals.  Perhaps:  Perhaps not!

[AFadedMemory]

12 hours ago, Sunjammer said:

(...)

• The new UI doesn't accept Shift+Clicking on an item from Sell tab to populate the Buy tab. The old UI supported this and it was handy for check if items weren't selling because you've been
• The new UI doesn't accept Shift+Clicking on an item in the crafting menus to populate the Buy tab. The old UI supported this and it was handy for checking potential demand and current prices of craftable items (before you craft them).
• The new flow for sellers (i.e. mail + claim indiviually) adds pointless steps. At the very least add a claim all button or a check box system similar to the client. Better yet revert to sending proceeds by mail.

These points right here!

Edited December 14, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[AFadedMemory]

11 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

There is no point in picking up a purchased item by leaving the GTN and walking 20 meters to the mailbox. Buying and receiving in one place is more logical.

Perhaps stuff purchased or canceled are picked up in the GTN, and Stuff, credits or items, that are sold/expired picked up in the mail.

[AFadedMemory]

5 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

Of the complaints that have been leveled against the new format for the GTN the single biggest obstacle (and yes there are others) still remains the lack of giving people who are actually paying for the items listed the OPTION to select the item that they want to purchase.  IMO when it gets right down to it this is just simply an open door to all sorts of complaints and descension (and IMO rightly so.)  

The items are all the same. what they don't "get to choose" is the price, which technically is not true. They can ask to buy an Item for a higher, or lower, price in trade chat.

 

5 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

** If an item(s) do not sell is the deposit refunded? 

I'm pretty sure the answer to this is no.

Edited December 14, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[OlBuzzard]

38 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

The items are all the same. what they don't "get to choose" is the price, which technically is not true. They can ask to buy an Item for a higher, or lower, price in trade chat.

 

I'm pretty sure the answer to this is no.

Respectfully:

** The necessity for asking (or selling outside of the GTN) in order to "make things work" sort of defeats the purpose of the GTN and (in fact) also is a clear indication that the current system is unquestionably falling short of a QOL point of application for the trade center.

** This in turn pretty much defeats a part of the GTN in that it should be providing a better environment for players to buy / sell / trade.  

** While I personally would frequently look at simply the cheapest price (on just about any item) ... I can make a better choice when I'm able to review ALL of the information:  How long an item has been posted at its current price; How MANY are available at that price (by that I mean ... did someone just dump a large quantity flooding the market at just one credit cheaper forcing others to buy theirs first??? Frankly I've been known to deliberately pay the higher price to irritate the one flooding the market at a one credit cheaper price!)   

** I also realize that some folks want to simply find a way to "corner" the market.  That was under the old system.  Whales (I really don't like that term, but the youngsters use it ... and most everyone knows what it means) ...  ANYHOW ... WHALES don't worry about a few credits for one second!  They just keep posting multiple times at whatever (one credit cheaper price) is needed to insure their sales.  (IMO that is controlling the market to some degree).

** And frankly ... for me PERSONALLY (that means a lot of folks will disagree with the old man) ... I just hate the idea of NOT having a choice regarding purchasing from ONLY the lowest price.  Yeah ... I get the whole drive down the market idea.  BUT in the long run it will drive people AWAY from the GTN altogether.  I don't have an updated 7.4 version of my crystal ball just yet and frankly I have YET to order it  (yes there is a subtle message there too) ...  So, I can't tell anyone exactly what the total outcome will be.  

BTW: it should be noted that this will not 100% insure happiness to everyone.  I'm also convinced that regardless of what the team does they will be fried to a golden crisp regardless.  

Lastly:  Nonrefundable deposits on canceled or expired sales???  WHAT???  EXCUSE ME??

NO!  Just simply ... NO!

(BTW...  this is not a rant.  So don't take it that way!)

[AlacrityFitzhugh]

I have to say, as a casual seller, while the new system has a few quirks, I like it. Makes it easier to sell stuff.

[TrixxieTriss]

11 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Respectfully:

** The necessity for asking (or selling outside of the GTN) in order to "make things work" sort of defeats the purpose of the GTN and (in fact) also is a clear indication that the current system is unquestionably falling short of a QOL point of application for the trade center.

** This in turn pretty much defeats a part of the GTN in that it should be providing a better environment for players to buy / sell / trade.  

** While I personally would frequently look at simply the cheapest price (on just about any item) ... I can make a better choice when I'm able to review ALL of the information:  How long an item has been posted at its current price; How MANY are available at that price (by that I mean ... did someone just dump a large quantity flooding the market at just one credit cheaper forcing others to buy theirs first??? Frankly I've been known to deliberately pay the higher price to irritate the one flooding the market at a one credit cheaper price!)   

** I also realize that some folks want to simply find a way to "corner" the market.  That was under the old system.  Whales (I really don't like that term, but the youngsters use it ... and most everyone knows what it means) ...  ANYHOW ... WHALES don't worry about a few credits for one second!  They just keep posting multiple times at whatever (one credit cheaper price) is needed to insure their sales.  (IMO that is controlling the market to some degree).

** And frankly ... for me PERSONALLY (that means a lot of folks will disagree with the old man) ... I just hate the idea of NOT having a choice regarding purchasing from ONLY the lowest price.  Yeah ... I get the whole drive down the market idea.  BUT in the long run it will drive people AWAY from the GTN altogether.  I don't have an updated 7.4 version of my crystal ball just yet and frankly I have YET to order it  (yes there is a subtle message there too) ...  So, I can't tell anyone exactly what the total outcome will be.  

BTW: it should be noted that this will not 100% insure happiness to everyone.  I'm also convinced that regardless of what the team does they will be fried to a golden crisp regardless.  

Lastly:  Nonrefundable deposits on canceled or expired sales???  WHAT???  EXCUSE ME??

NO!  Just simply ... NO!

(BTW...  this is not a rant.  So don't take it that way!)

You been pretty correct so far… keep it going 👍

[AFadedMemory]

45 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

** The necessity for asking (or selling outside of the GTN) in order to "make things work" sort of defeats the purpose of the GTN and (in fact) also is a clear indication that the current system is unquestionably falling short of a QOL point of application for the trade center.

** This in turn pretty much defeats a part of the GTN in that it should be providing a better environment for players to buy / sell / trade.  

Form follows function. I believe that the GTN was designed to give players the ability to buy and sell items without both parties being online or in the same place at the same time. The current system accomplishes this. One could argue that the Old One accomplish this as well. Which brings us back to function or the why. What is the New System suppose to accomplish that the Old One can not. I'm not sure. Though I believe forcing people to buy cheap won't cause a significant change to the items available in the long run. The areas must affected by this is high competition areas, if you want to sell in that area then your listing has to be the cheapest.  Most likely situation: either there will be constant undercutting or only 1 person will be selling in that section. 

45 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

** And frankly ... for me PERSONALLY (that means a lot of folks will disagree with the old man) ... I just hate the idea of NOT having a choice regarding purchasing from ONLY the lowest price.  Yeah ... I get the whole drive down the market idea.  BUT in the long run it will drive people AWAY from the GTN altogether.  I don't have an updated 7.4 version of my crystal ball just yet and frankly I have YET to order it  (yes there is a subtle message there too) ...  So, I can't tell anyone exactly what the total outcome will be.  

This is a real possibility. What if the intent behind the changes is to get players to start doing things differently. Maybe the devs want players to start selling different items more (cartel market items most likely) or to participating in activities that are not the GTN.

I can't really say what their intentions are. Nor can I say people walking away for the GTN is a  good or bad thing.  Only time will see if their experiment will produce the desired results.

Realistically speaking the convenience the GTN offers to buyers, in my opinion, out weighs the inconvenience it has to sellers. As long as there are people willing to buy something someone will be happy to sell it to them.

Edited December 14, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[OlBuzzard]

@AFadedMemory ...  

Hmmm!  I trying to think of the best way to point something out without one of my usual (and somewhat verbose and often boring) explanations.

Form, fit and function.  A hallmark of production quality.  If the "new item" fails in one of these areas then there is an obvious oversight somewhere.  That usually indicates the necessity to review and recall or perhaps at least fine tune something that is creating the issue.

One of the old problems:  line after line, after line, after line ...  (and sometimes just a quantity of ONE).  MAN that was ANNOYING!  The solution of conidiation was (and still is) EXCELLENT!

The QOL issue:  If you don't like the new system sell individually.  This is both awkward and time consuming.  By definition of the existence of the GTN in the first place it should be a place of open commerce.  Or at the least that is a generalized and somewhat simplified definition.  As it now stands a part of that is now broken.  Not only does it take away a part of the choice of the one spending the credits ... BUT it also creates a loss of credits to those who just got undercut since there is now no longer a refund of credits for the items not sold.  By that I mean ... If anyone posts an item to sell (pay the required deposit) then 30 seconds later they are undercut by even so much as one credit there's an increased probability that their item will not sell.  The deposit is gone regardless of what other choices are made.  That would irritate me personally.  Reposting is one thing!  OK ... all that takes is time.  I get that part.  BUT now an additional deposit on a relisting that could just as easily evaporate without selling one item?

***UGH***

The consolidation thing is great.  It was needed and that part works!!

Purchase only the cheapest item:  Sorry!  I'm still not convinced this is the right thing to do!  Telling others to go outside of the GTN in order to sell their stuff as a result of this ... NO!  The QOL aspect of the GTN just evaporated.

Nonrefundable deposit on items not sold (canceled or simply not sold):  NO ... Just simply NO!  

(rats ... STILL too long winded) 

Sorry!

[AFadedMemory]

1 hour ago, OlBuzzard said:

Form, fit and function.  A hallmark of production quality.  If the "new item" fails in one of these areas then there is an obvious oversight somewhere.  That usually indicates the necessity to review and recall or perhaps at least fine tune something that is creating the issue.

I get that. What I'm trying to say is the function BS is trying to accomplish now is most likely different/more restrictive then it originally was. For example say someone wants to sit on something other then the ground. A log and a metal char fit that function. Now say someone wants to sit on something other then the ground and rest their back on a sold object. the log, generally speaking, doesn't fits this function. Which function is better? Hard to say. There are times an places where one is preferred over the other.

Now as for the current function BS wants the GTN to accomplish. I don't know. Here is a guess:

A system with low data/storage requirement, allows players to sell items and buy without being in the same place. Addresses common scams, increases item variety, strongly deters credit laundering, and keep prices low.

If this is the goal/function I would argued that the new GTN can accomplish this better then the old one. Can I prove it, no. I don't have the old GTN statistics, and the new one hasn't been out long enough to generate a long term pattern.

Once again I don't know what BS's goal is, and I won't unless they share that information. Only time will till if BS's changes will cripple the game or help it. 

The changes are not significant enough to cause me to play other games, and I would like to believe most people like other aspects of the game well enough to keep playing.

Edited December 14, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[OlBuzzard]

17 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

I get that. What I'm trying to say is the function BS is trying to accomplish now is most likely different/more restrictive then it originally was. For example say someone wants to sit on something other then the ground. A log and a metal char fit that function. Now say someone wants to sit on something other then the ground and rest their back on a sold object. the log, generally speaking, doesn't fits this function. Which function is better? Hard to say. There are times an places where one is preferred over the other.

Now as for the current function BS wants the GTN to accomplish. I don't know. Here is a guess:

A system with low data/storage requirement, allows players to sell items and buy without being in the same place. Addresses common scams, increases item variety, strongly deters credit laundering, and keep prices low.

If this is the goal/function I would argued that the new GTN can accomplish this better then the old one. Can I prove it, no. I don't have the old GTN statistics, and the new one hasn't been out long enough to generate a long term pattern.

Once again I don't know what BS's goal is, and I won't unless they share that information. Only time will till if BS's changes will cripple the game or help it. 

The changes are not significant enough to cause me to play other games, and I would like to believe most people like other aspects of the game well enough to keep playing.

Hey .. trust me this is all good.

Sometimes in order to get to the heart of the matter it's necessary to take things apart ... find out what makes it tick ... then put it back together again.

It's not enough to simply tear stuff down!  Good grief ... ANYBODY can tear stuff down.  BUT ... finding out how to FIX it when it's all said and done ... that to me is another matter altogether different!

Right now it definitely appears that a part of the GTN needs a bit of tweaking.  That does not mean tear down and start over.  IMO there's a way to fix this.  

BTW... thanks for taking the time out of your schedule to hash this out with the old man!  Much appreciated!

[AFadedMemory]

8 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Hey .. trust me this is all good.

Sometimes in order to get to the heart of the matter it's necessary to take things apart ... find out what makes it tick ... then put it back together again.

It's not enough to simply tear stuff down!  Good grief ... ANYBODY can tear stuff down.  BUT ... finding out how to FIX it when it's all said and done ... that to me is another matter altogether different!

Right now it definitely appears that a part of the GTN needs a bit of tweaking.  That does not mean tear down and start over.  IMO there's a way to fix this.  

BTW... thanks for taking the time out of your schedule to hash this out with the old man!  Much appreciated!

Not a problem. Hashing things out allows me to think in ways I haven't had to for awhile. it's been quite entertaining.

Edited December 14, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[Anhkriva]

5 hours ago, AFadedMemory said:

Perhaps stuff purchased or canceled are picked up in the GTN, and Stuff, credits or items, that are sold/expired picked up in the mail.

This could be the perfect solution.

[DeannaVoyager]

On 12/13/2023 at 9:18 AM, Anhkriva said:

As you admitted, you stopped using GTN, so that explains why you have such incorrect information. Undercutting prices is, of course, the norm, but not by 1 credit (it's rather rare, apart from very cheap materials), but by thousands and sometimes millions, depending on the starting price. For example, I have several Compendiums for sale and I watch the prices very carefully, they dropped to 93m and the last cuts were by 500k, no one wasted time playing with 1 credit cut. The Mount I would like to buy, the price dropped on average by 5m on the offer, although it must be admitted that they started from a very high price.

Undercutting by 1 credit IS the norm, so it seems you are the one with incorrect information. 

I don't know why someone would be ever so ...misguided... that they would buy CM version of companion compendiums from GTN when you can craft the required items yourself and add a few millions to buy those things from a vendor, unless they don't know about the vendor at all.  However: if someone does undercut properly (like with your example or with any other item) I have no problem with that. My problem is with the sleazy tactics some sellers use to push everyone else off the market with their 1 credit undercuts and the game not allowing us to skip these people. 

[DeannaVoyager]

11 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

** Allowing players to see all of the listing and select the item that they WANT to purchase is without question (to me at least) the best way to go!
** As for listing players names .. IMO that is still up for debate.  To me, personally:  it's not imperative.  

If they would let us choose which item we want to buy, even if it's not the cheapest, the hidden seller name wouldn't be a problem either. The name of the seller is unimportant, it's their behavior I despise and don't want to support.

 

5 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

Lastly:  Nonrefundable deposits on canceled or expired sales???  WHAT???  EXCUSE ME??

NO!  Just simply ... NO!

Agreed. There is no point selling items anymore in GTN if you want to actually play the game too, and not just sit at the GTN. 

I'm waiting someone will set up an external website where sellers can post ads of their items and buyers can choose who to buy from.