Can't see seller's name (GTN)

[BulbulusTheGreat]

why is not seeing sellers name such a big deal? it doesn't harm you buying persons item in the slightest while it does have some up sides, for example person selling something for price someone doesn't like might be harassed for it or ridiculed publicly and while i don't really care about this some people are sensitive, i see zero benefit to seeing sellers name and quite a few to not seeing it.

credit sellers? just go and check imp or rep fleet at 2 AM and you will see credit sellers in chat, not on gtn

Edited December 18, 2023 by BulbulusTheGreat

[DeannaVoyager]

11 minutes ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

why is not seeing sellers name such a big deal? it doesn't harm you buying persons item in the slightest while it does have some up sides, for example person selling something for price someone doesn't like might be harassed for it or ridiculed publicly and while i don't really care about this some people are sensitive, i see zero benefit to seeing sellers name and quite a few to not seeing it.

credit sellers? just go and check imp or rep fleet at 2 AM and you will see credit sellers in chat, not on gtn

This has been already explained in multiple threads. Why not read some of those posts?

 

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

why is not seeing sellers name such a big deal? it doesn't harm you buying persons item in the slightest while it does have some up sides, for example person selling something for price someone doesn't like might be harassed for it or ridiculed publicly and while i don't really care about this some people are sensitive, i see zero benefit to seeing sellers name and quite a few to not seeing it.

credit sellers? just go and check imp or rep fleet at 2 AM and you will see credit sellers in chat, not on gtn

Because some people think they are special and can identify credit sellers by name, or by the fact they can make billions of credits or own multiple SWTOR accounts with security keys for years for free CC.

DeannaVoyager is a prime example of why names were taken out to stop harassment. I don't agree with them so I must be a credit seller even though I support the current design which makes it harder to launder credits through the GTN and stops pricing scams.

[BulbulusTheGreat]

2 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

This has been already explained in multiple threads. Why not read some of those posts?

 

becuse some of you are arguing about this right here and right now, im not going to dig through weeks or even days old threats for a situation thats being discussed here, forum isn't my entire life besides when you want your side of story to be heard then you explain it when people ask otherwise they'll be inclined to agree with side that actually bothered to explain anyway to keep this on topic - i see no valid reason to not show sellers name, credit selling isn't an argument becuse it won't stop it, some folk like privacy, some don't want to be publicly shamed becuse someone disagrees with their price etc etc.


lots of arguments for "don't show name" policy, literally zero for "show name" one right now.

Edited December 18, 2023 by BulbulusTheGreat

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

becuse some of you are arguing about this right here and right now, im not going to dig through weeks or even days old threats for a situation thats being discussed here, forum isn't my entire life besides when you want your side of story to be heard then you explain it when people ask otherwise they'll be inclined to agree with side that actually bothered to explain anyway to keep this on topic - i see no valid reason to not show sellers name, credit selling isn't an argument becuse it won't stop it, some folk like privacy, some don't want to be publicly shamed becuse someone disagrees with their price etc etc.


lots of arguments for "don't show name" policy, literally zero for "show name" one right now.

Laundering Credits:

part of the way credits were laundered with the old GTN is players would set up max priced GTN sales and tell the other party "I created an auction under <character name> for a <vendor trash blaster> on the GTN at 3 billion credits. Please buy that blaster instead of mailing me credits."

Person transferring the credits would look up that item, find the players name, and they would purchase the 3 billion credit <vendor trash blaster> to help try and obfuscate the sale of credits.

Price Scam:

Set up auctions for 3 billion credit dyes. Hope someone accidentally buys these because the Low to High price scaling button did not work properly the first time you clicked it. I know a trader on SWTOR Discord who bragged about using this scam to "test" people only they continued to use this scam until 7.4. The change in 7.4 of lowest price selling first made pulling this scam impossible.

Below is a screenshot of one of the scammers. They did this for every dye type they could craft hoping someone would fall for it.

 

The general argument to show names is "I want to make sure I am not buying from a credit seller because I can definitely with 100% accuracy tell a credit seller by name better than the Devs who have metrics I don't even know exist" and "I don't want to do business with a person who buys and flips items on the GTN".

The same posters who want names shown also want lowest priced item selling first to be eliminated because "People deserve the freedom to choose what price they pay" even though this opens up the GTN to the same scams we had before the 7.4 safeguards were installed.

Here is a quote from a developer as to one of the reasons why names were removed.

On 11/3/2023 at 12:22 PM, JoeStramaglia said:

Removing seller names actually makes it a lot harder for bad actors to do things they like to do with our GTN. We’ve also greatly improved our systems for monitoring activity, so when someone starts doing something suspicious we’ll know.

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[ElZaguero]

8 hours ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

why is not seeing sellers name such a big deal? it doesn't harm you buying persons item in the slightest while it does have some up sides, for example person selling something for price someone doesn't like might be harassed for it or ridiculed publicly and while i don't really care about this some people are sensitive, i see zero benefit to seeing sellers name and quite a few to not seeing it.

credit sellers? just go and check imp or rep fleet at 2 AM and you will see credit sellers in chat, not on gtn

 

2am WHERE? You do understand that SWTOR is played around the world, right?

It's 7am in San Diego, NOON here in Buenos Aires, but 1am tomorrow morning in Brisbane.

[OlBuzzard]

I personally think I've read enough of all of this.  And (though not solicited) I will add this:

The elimination of "names" of the sellers is perhaps the single most important item to help prevent selling scams.  Pricing restrictions in selling not so much.

WHY?

The absence of names is obvious.  BUT what is not so obvious is the pricing game.  Claiming that the higher prices set up scams is a joke!  If anything, it has the opposite effect.  Credit sellers (scammers) are not that concerned over a few lost credits when looking at the greater scheme of things.  In fact, selling at the cheapest price almost guarantees that someone who is supposed to be assisting in the so-called laundering of credits will know EXACTLY where and WHEN to find a particular item for sale.  
"Just look for my [insert item] at approximately 100K less than anyone else...  "

It was also proven that in some cases (under the old system) that some F2P people were using it as a personal storage for items that they did not have room for or needed storing .... sooo they priced it just ridiculously high.  And before "someone" jumps my case and tell everyone that this is a lie and can't be proved ... IMO there is a LOT more support for this "theory" than the "scammer theory".

The bottom line is that the elimination of names almost guarantees that in order for something on the GTN to be easily found and identified said item MUST be at the top of the list.  That makes it easy and convenient to locate.  Just look for the cheapest price.  Need a few more credits... no problem.  We'll just sell you a few more!

IMO the elimination of names is a must to continue.  Forcing sales to be restricted to ONLY the first few or cheapest item ... no so much.

Overall leave the new system in tact .. just make a few tweaks.

BTW.. it should be noted that my personal contempt for credit sellers cannot be expressed properly without taking a HUGE risk being permanently banned from the SWTOR forums.  (so yeah .. if you're a scammer or credit seller ... let me show you to the nearest air lock).

[denavin]

I like the new system.

I like not having to wade through a hundred pages of the same item.

I like only having 20 or so pages of one item per line.

I could care less who the seller is.

I ALWAYS bought the LOWEST priced items even if it was only 1 credit lower. I never bought the higher price.

All I hear here is "I can't sell or buy credits any more because nobody can see my name"

Keep the new system, it works just fine.

Edited December 18, 2023 by denavin

[OlBuzzard]

36 minutes ago, denavin said:

I like the new system.

I like not having to wade through a hundred pages of the same item.

I like only having 20 or so pages of one item per line.

I could care less who the seller is.

I ALWAYS bought the LOWEST priced items even if it was only 1 credit lower. I never bought the higher price.

All I hear here is "I can't sell or buy credits any more because nobody can see my name"

Keep the new system, it works just fine.

Agreed on all points save one:  purchasing ONLY the cheapest one available.  Even then, I would agree up to a point ... BUT there are times when it is also appropriate to not be forced to do so (as I've already explained).

It should be noted that I ALSO mentioned (more than once) that I hated digging through page after page, after page, after page ...  of one line item (usually by the same person) AND often times just a quantity of one!!!  That was REALLY annoying!

Only a minor tweak respectfully requested to the new system!

[BulbulusTheGreat]

13 hours ago, ElZaguero said:

 

2am WHERE? You do understand that SWTOR is played around the world, right?

It's 7am in San Diego, NOON here in Buenos Aires, but 1am tomorrow morning in Brisbane.

i do understand that and im talking in european 2 am, but i highly doubt its different somewhere else, crime (for lack of less controversial word) usually happens late at night so my guess is in san diego  at 2 AM there will probably be credit sellers just like how there are when 2 AM is in my place (Croatia is my country but darth malgus as server convers lot more of europe than just croatia), i've noticed they're usually night owls (yes refrence lol) but this is just personal experience maybe outside of europe they're on at different time 

Edited December 19, 2023 by BulbulusTheGreat

[DeannaVoyager]

21 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

Because some people think they are special and can identify credit sellers by name, or by the fact they can make billions of credits or own multiple SWTOR accounts with security keys for years for free CC.

DeannaVoyager is a prime example of why names were taken out to stop harassment. I don't agree with them so I must be a credit seller even though I support the current design which makes it harder to launder credits through the GTN and stops pricing scams.

And you are a prime example of someone who can't discuss a topic in a civil manner but resort into personal attacks such as this instead. It's a clear sign that you lost the argument pages ago. 
If anyone is harassing anyone else, it's you. Everyone can see the evidence here on the forum. However you don't know me, you don't know which character I play on what server/s, so trying to accuse me of harassing GTN players because names are posted, is yet another lie. If you got harassed by someone in game, it's quite obvious it has nothing to do with your GTN sales. You are obsessed with attacking people who disagree with you, so bullying must have worked for you in the past. Hate to tell you this (well, not really), but I've never given up to bullies and I'm not gonna start now. 

 

21 hours ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

becuse some of you are arguing about this right here and right now, im not going to dig through weeks or even days old threats for a situation thats being discussed here, forum isn't my entire life besides when you want your side of story to be heard then you explain it when people ask otherwise they'll be inclined to agree with side that actually bothered to explain anyway to keep this on topic - i see no valid reason to not show sellers name, credit selling isn't an argument becuse it won't stop it, some folk like privacy, some don't want to be publicly shamed becuse someone disagrees with their price etc etc.


lots of arguments for "don't show name" policy, literally zero for "show name" one right now.

I've never seen anyone who didn't deserve it publicly shamed because of their GTN pricing so I wouldn't count that as a good reason to hide the names. But agreed on the credit selling business: showing or not showing the name will not stop it. There are sellers on the fleet as we speak, so it clearly hasn't stopped. So that's a moot argument, but monty likes to use it because he doesn't have anything else to show for. 

Other reasons mentioned have been:

- people can't check if they sold some item or not by checking the GTN with their alt: they have to log the character who's selling
- people can accidentally buy their own items
- third, and maybe the biggest reason is to avoid buying from certain people, but right now, when the game forces us to buy the lowest price seeing the name wouldn't help either (except on deciding if we want to buy or not). 
A lot of people used to skip certain kind of sellers (1 credit undercutters) and credit sellers, but it's not possible anymore so we've just stopped using the GTN. That hurts monty's feelings, because even when the game forces people to buy the lowest price, the game can't force people to buy from him, no matter how many times he undercuts others with 1 credit and tries to push everyone else off the market. 

There has been a lot of discussion about the game forcing to buy the cheapest listing: if just that would get fixed, so that we can skip the obnoxious 1 credit undercutters, showing the seller name wouldn't be that important. People who want to skip certain sellers, do it because of their behaviour, not because of their name. (yet another part which monty is getting wrong). 

 

20 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

 

The general argument to show names is "I want to make sure I am not buying from a credit seller because I can definitely with 100% accuracy tell a credit seller by name better than the Devs who have metrics I don't even know exist" and "I don't want to do business with a person who buys and flips items on the GTN".

The same posters who want names shown also want lowest priced item selling first to be eliminated because "People deserve the freedom to choose what price they pay" even though this opens up the GTN to the same scams we had before the 7.4 safeguards were installed.

Here is a quote from a developer as to one of the reasons why names were removed.

 

And yet again you are lying by omission... The screenie is from the first post on PTS forum, where JoeStramaglia initially explained why the seller name has been removed.

That is LITERALLY the first and original reason why the seller names were removed: there wasn't enough space. Being dishonest about facts doesn't make your arguments stronger, it makes them weaker. Attacking me doesn't make your arguments stronger, it proves you don't have any.

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/931783-74-gtn-preview-live-on-pts/

[Anhkriva]

34 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

And you are a prime example of someone who can't discuss a topic in a civil manner but resort into personal attacks such as this instead. It's a clear sign that you lost the argument pages ago. 
If anyone is harassing anyone else, it's you. Everyone can see the evidence here on the forum. However you don't know me, you don't know which character I play on what server/s, so trying to accuse me of harassing GTN players because names are posted, is yet another lie. If you got harassed by someone in game, it's quite obvious it has nothing to do with your GTN sales. You are obsessed with attacking people who disagree with you, so bullying must have worked for you in the past. Hate to tell you this (well, not really), but I've never given up to bullies and I'm not gonna start now. 

 

I've never seen anyone who didn't deserve it publicly shamed because of their GTN pricing so I wouldn't count that as a good reason to hide the names. But agreed on the credit selling business: showing or not showing the name will not stop it. There are sellers on the fleet as we speak, so it clearly hasn't stopped. So that's a moot argument, but monty likes to use it because he doesn't have anything else to show for. 

Other reasons mentioned have been:

- people can't check if they sold some item or not by checking the GTN with their alt: they have to log the character who's selling
- people can accidentally buy their own items
- third, and maybe the biggest reason is to avoid buying from certain people, but right now, when the game forces us to buy the lowest price seeing the name wouldn't help either (except on deciding if we want to buy or not). 
A lot of people used to skip certain kind of sellers (1 credit undercutters) and credit sellers, but it's not possible anymore so we've just stopped using the GTN. That hurts monty's feelings, because even when the game forces people to buy the lowest price, the game can't force people to buy from him, no matter how many times he undercuts others with 1 credit and tries to push everyone else off the market. 

There has been a lot of discussion about the game forcing to buy the cheapest listing: if just that would get fixed, so that we can skip the obnoxious 1 credit undercutters, showing the seller name wouldn't be that important. People who want to skip certain sellers, do it because of their behaviour, not because of their name. (yet another part which monty is getting wrong). 

 

And yet again you are lying by omission... The screenie is from the first post on PTS forum, where JoeStramaglia initially explained why the seller name has been removed.

That is LITERALLY the first and original reason why the seller names were removed: there wasn't enough space. Being dishonest about facts doesn't make your arguments stronger, it makes them weaker. Attacking me doesn't make your arguments stronger, it proves you don't have any.

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/931783-74-gtn-preview-live-on-pts/

Forcing a purchase at the lowest price is the main reason why prices on GTN dropped. So sorry, but if I have to choose between paying much less for an armor set and the satisfaction of several people with the possibility of not buying from someone who lowered the price for 1 credit, the choice is obvious.

[sharpenedstick]

6 minutes ago, Anhkriva said:

between paying much less for an armor set and the satisfaction of several people with the possibility of not buying from someone who lowered the price for 1 credit, the choice is obvious.

This so much. On the list of issues the dev team should worry about, making it so that buyers can spite 1 credit uncutters is #995984129.

[Darkestmonty]

3 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

Forcing a purchase at the lowest price is the main reason why prices on GTN dropped. So sorry, but if I have to choose between paying much less for an armor set and the satisfaction of several people with the possibility of not buying from someone who lowered the price for 1 credit, the choice is obvious.

There are at lot of returning players which may be impacting prices. More people competing to sell lowers prices. And the problem of undercutting by 1 credit is exaggerated, if everyone was doing that there would be less than 100 credit difference between the highest price and lowest price.

Some people here are upset they have to compete with returning players to sell items.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[DeannaVoyager]

22 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

Forcing a purchase at the lowest price is the main reason why prices on GTN dropped. So sorry, but if I have to choose between paying much less for an armor set and the satisfaction of several people with the possibility of not buying from someone who lowered the price for 1 credit, the choice is obvious.

If Bob posts an armor set for 3 billion and David posts the same set for 1 credit less, how long it takes until it's actually dropped to some reasonable price (insert your own)? 

I've said in previous posts, undercutting properly is fine, that will bring the prices down. No-one is against that. Undercutting by 1 credit doesn't do anything to the prices, it's just a sleazy tactic to control the market and push competition away, off the market. Feel free to support that kind of obnoxious behaviour, I won't. I prefer free market and freedom of choice. I wasn't selling that much before 7.4, mostly just decos from ops, and mostly because I'm capped with credits: if I make more credits, I'll have to store them on some characters inventory and I don't like that. But I used to buy a lot of augment kits, stims and adrenals sometimes because buying was more convenient than crafting. 
  
One more thing to think about: the more people abandon GTN, or the whole game because of this, the less buyers there will be, and that means prices will also come down. At first it looks good, but as soon as these people have pushed casual crafters out, guess what will happen to the prices when there is no competition anymore?  

 

19 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

Some people here are upset they have to compete with returning players to sell items.

That must mean you. I used GTN mostly for buying, and it's now sellers who are competing of buyers. 

[AFadedMemory]

On 12/18/2023 at 9:29 AM, OlBuzzard said:

I personally think I've read enough of all of this.  And (though not solicited) I will add this:

The elimination of "names" of the sellers is perhaps the single most important item to help prevent selling scams.  Pricing restrictions in selling not so much.

WHY?

The absence of names is obvious.  BUT what is not so obvious is the pricing game.  Claiming that the higher prices set up scams is a joke!  If anything, it has the opposite effect.  Credit sellers (scammers) are not that concerned over a few lost credits when looking at the greater scheme of things.  In fact, selling at the cheapest price almost guarantees that someone who is supposed to be assisting in the so-called laundering of credits will know EXACTLY where and WHEN to find a particular item for sale.  
"Just look for my [insert item] at approximately 100K less than anyone else...  "

It was also proven that in some cases (under the old system) that some F2P people were using it as a personal storage for items that they did not have room for or needed storing .... sooo they priced it just ridiculously high.  And before "someone" jumps my case and tell everyone that this is a lie and can't be proved ... IMO there is a LOT more support for this "theory" than the "scammer theory".

The bottom line is that the elimination of names almost guarantees that in order for something on the GTN to be easily found and identified said item MUST be at the top of the list.  That makes it easy and convenient to locate.  Just look for the cheapest price.  Need a few more credits... no problem.  We'll just sell you a few more!

IMO the elimination of names is a must to continue.  Forcing sales to be restricted to ONLY the first few or cheapest item ... no so much.

Overall leave the new system in tact .. just make a few tweaks.

BTW.. it should be noted that my personal contempt for credit sellers cannot be expressed properly without taking a HUGE risk being permanently banned from the SWTOR forums.  (so yeah .. if you're a scammer or credit seller ... let me show you to the nearest air lock).

I agree that no name is a good way to prevent credit selling on the gtn, but Force Cheap Sale is a stronger deterrent. Put the two together and you have a really strong deterrent.

As for cheap sale help laundering, no it makes it harder. If someone was able to keep an items price at 100,000 it would still take 10,000 transaction to reach a billion. 10 transactions to 1 million. (If it was a million it would take 1,000 transactions to reach a billion.)
 

As someone said previously, using a quote from a dev, bs monitor the gtn. We can’t see names but they can. If a player sells a non demand item for billions that’s strange behavior. If some person is buying a specific item multiple time and it happens to be from the same person, that’s strange behavior.

force cheap sell also greatly impacts the price in the downward direction so it’s not just being used as a credit laundering deterrent.

Freedom to choice a price has not been taken away, sure it’s harder to buy or sell at the price you want, but can still be accomplished. The main purpose of the gtn is still being accomplished.

Edited December 20, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[Anhkriva]

2 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

If Bob posts an armor set for 3 billion and David posts the same set for 1 credit less, how long it takes until it's actually dropped to some reasonable price (insert your own)? 

I've said in previous posts, undercutting properly is fine, that will bring the prices down. No-one is against that. Undercutting by 1 credit doesn't do anything to the prices, it's just a sleazy tactic to control the market and push competition away, off the market. Feel free to support that kind of obnoxious behaviour, I won't. I prefer free market and freedom of choice. I wasn't selling that much before 7.4, mostly just decos from ops, and mostly because I'm capped with credits: if I make more credits, I'll have to store them on some characters inventory and I don't like that. But I used to buy a lot of augment kits, stims and adrenals sometimes because buying was more convenient than crafting. 
  
One more thing to think about: the more people abandon GTN, or the whole game because of this, the less buyers there will be, and that means prices will also come down. At first it looks good, but as soon as these people have pushed casual crafters out, guess what will happen to the prices when there is no competition anymore?  

 

That must mean you. I used GTN mostly for buying, and it's now sellers who are competing of buyers. 

Undercutting prices by 1 credit is more often mentioned on the forum as an argument than it is actually a problem in the game itself. Items, depending on the starting price, are now 25-40% cheaper, it is obvious that such price reductions are not the result of undercutting by 1 credit, because they would keep doing it until the end of the world and 1 day longer.

Augment kits, for example, are one of the most popular items on GTN, now they undercut prices there minimally, maybe even by 1 credit, but that's because the price has already been reduced by the market by 300-400k per piece compared to the old GTN and it won't go lower. What is more important: the fact that now they are playing with symbolic price cuts or the fact that instead of paying 1.3-1.4 million we pay 1 million? The augments themselves have dropped even more, and this is the case with most things, maybe except for cheaper raw materials, where the profit margin is very small and there are many suppliers.

Another made-up problem is people who will supposedly stop using GTN. The market traffic is very high and even if several players ostentatiously announce that they will stop trading, no one will even notice it in the game.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Anhkriva

[DeannaVoyager]

23 hours ago, AFadedMemory said:

I agree that no name is a good way to prevent credit selling on the gtn, but Force Cheap Sale is a stronger deterrent. Put the two together and you have a really strong deterrent.

As for cheap sale help laundering, no it makes it harder. If someone was able to keep an items price at 100,000 it would still take 10,000 transaction to reach a billion. 10 transactions to 1 million. (If it was a million it would take 1,000 transactions to reach a billion.)
 

As someone said previously, using a quote from a dev, bs monitor the gtn. We can’t see names but they can. If a player sells a non demand item for billions that’s strange behavior. If some person is buying a specific item multiple time and it happens to be from the same person, that’s strange behavior.

force cheap sell also greatly impacts the price in the downward direction so it’s not just being used as a credit laundering deterrent.

Freedom to choice a price has not been taken away, sure it’s harder to buy or sell at the price you want, but can still be accomplished. The main purpose of the gtn is still being accomplished.

Forcing people to buy lowest price hasn't stopped credit selling. It doesn't hurt them at all, but it hurts the players.
You seem to think they are actively monitoring the game, and as long as you are under that misconception, it's rather pointless to continue a conversation based on facts. 

23 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

Undercutting prices by 1 credit is more often mentioned on the forum as an argument than it is actually a problem in the game itself. Items, depending on the starting price, are now 25-40% cheaper, it is obvious that such price reductions are not the result of undercutting by 1 credit, because they would keep doing it until the end of the world and 1 day longer.

Augment kits, for example, are one of the most popular items on GTN, now they undercut prices there minimally, maybe even by 1 credit, but that's because the price has already been reduced by the market by 300-400k per piece compared to the old GTN and it won't go lower. What is more important: the fact that now they are playing with symbolic price cuts or the fact that instead of paying 1.3-1.4 million we pay 1 million? The augments themselves have dropped even more, and this is the case with most things, maybe except for cheaper raw materials, where the profit margin is very small and there are many suppliers.

 

Did you not read at all what I just posted? 

Let me quote myself: 

On 12/20/2023 at 7:44 AM, DeannaVoyager said:

f Bob posts an armor set for 3 billion and David posts the same set for 1 credit less, how long it takes until it's actually dropped to some reasonable price (insert your own)? 

I've said in previous posts, undercutting properly is fine, that will bring the prices down. No-one is against that. Undercutting by 1 credit doesn't do anything to the prices, it's just a sleazy tactic to control the market and push competition away, off the market. Feel free to support that kind of obnoxious behaviour, I won't. I prefer free market and freedom of choice. I wasn't selling that much before 7.4, mostly just decos from ops, and mostly because I'm capped with credits: if I make more credits, I'll have to store them on some characters inventory and I don't like that. But I used to buy a lot of augment kits, stims and adrenals sometimes because buying was more convenient than crafting. 
  
One more thing to think about: the more people abandon GTN, or the whole game because of this, the less buyers there will be, and that means prices will also come down. At first it looks good, but as soon as these people have pushed casual crafters out, guess what will happen to the prices when there is no competition anymore?  

 

23 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

Another made-up problem is people who will supposedly stop using GTN. The market traffic is very high and even if several players ostentatiously announce that they will stop trading, no one will even notice it in the game.

Where is this high market traffic being published, source please? 
You wanting it to be so, isn't the same as it being so. 

 

Some people here seem to think opinion = fact. It's not. Any chance we could continue with just facts here?

[AFadedMemory]

17 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Forcing people to buy lowest price hasn't stopped credit selling. It doesn't hurt them at all, but it hurts the players.
You seem to think they are actively monitoring the game, and as long as you are under that misconception, it's rather pointless to continue a conversation based on facts. 

The only real way to stop credit selling is to disable the ability for players to exchange it. I think all of us would agree that that would be bad for SWTOR. The next option is to make it as inconvenient to do as possible. Force cheap sale, no name, and super trade tax does this. Sure the sellers are pretty resilient, but I would bet their customers are not. Those are who I think BS is targeting with these changes.
 

I am pretty confident that bs can see/is constantly looking for in game behavior that damages their bottom line. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[DeannaVoyager]

7 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

The only real way to stop credit selling is to disable the ability for players to exchange it. I think all of us would agree that that would be bad for SWTOR. The next option is to make it as inconvenient to do as possible. Force cheap sale, no name, and super trade tax does this. Sure the sellers are pretty resilient, but I would bet their customers are not. Those are who I think BS is targeting with these changes.
 

I am pretty confident that bs can see/is constantly looking for in game behavior that damages their bottom line. 

It doesn't, but you are free to have your opinion. Which is all it is, an opinion.

[AFadedMemory]

2 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

It doesn't, but you are free to have your opinion. Which is all it is, an opinion.

Credit sellers have definitely had to change their behavior. Which means it did hurt them. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[OlBuzzard]

On 12/20/2023 at 12:52 AM, AFadedMemory said:

I agree that no name is a good way to prevent credit selling on the gtn, but Force Cheap Sale is a stronger deterrent. Put the two together and you have a really strong deterrent.

As for cheap sale help laundering, no it makes it harder. If someone was able to keep an items price at 100,000 it would still take 10,000 transaction to reach a billion. 10 transactions to 1 million. (If it was a million it would take 1,000 transactions to reach a billion.)
 

As someone said previously, using a quote from a dev, bs monitor the gtn. We can’t see names but they can. If a player sells a non demand item for billions that’s strange behavior. If some person is buying a specific item multiple time and it happens to be from the same person, that’s strange behavior.

force cheap sell also greatly impacts the price in the downward direction so it’s not just being used as a credit laundering deterrent.

Freedom to choice a price has not been taken away, sure it’s harder to buy or sell at the price you want, but can still be accomplished. The main purpose of the gtn is still being accomplished.

Perhaps from your standpoint of view.  BUT not entirely true!  The simple fact is that you are bent on your philosophical position and you refuse to see anything else.

(Not being argumentative ... that's just how it is).

** People will purchase the cheaper prices regardless.
** You have absolutely NO proof that the higher prices were the basis for laundering credits.
** Forced purchase to one line item is no guarantee of anything that you are assuming.  

** You WANT to force people to buy a certain way ... then new system works that way sooo ... that's the way you like it!

The new GTN does fix several things that have been mentioned and I like most of what has been done!  The forced cheaper purchase only does NOT force prices down.  You obviously assume it does.  BUT in the end you are still relying on what people are wanting and are willing to pay for what is being sold.  ( I still refuse to pay some of the prices being posted today).

😲

Leave the GTN as it is save for one item:  forced purchase of cheapest price only.

STOPPING the influx of credits at the source (primarily credit sellers) will cut off the biggest part of the problem.  AND (when it comes right down to it) ... CREDITS can become even more useless when items can be earned actually playing the game (meaning that stuff can be gained through decent drops ... not from JUST the CM.)

If you want to strike another hard blow to credit scammers just make most of the gear we need (as well as other key fun items such as decos) BOP and that will hurt the scammers even more!

Any ways ...

I know you'll never agree!

Soooo  I rather suspect this will be my last post.  Besides you and I both know that the team is not going to change the GTN any time soon.  It is what it is!

[Anhkriva]

1 hour ago, OlBuzzard said:

 

The new GTN does fix several things that have been mentioned and I like most of what has been done!  The forced cheaper purchase only does NOT force prices down.  You obviously assume it does.  BUT in the end you are still relying on what people are wanting and are willing to pay for what is being sold.  ( I still refuse to pay some of the prices being posted today).

😲

Sellers lower prices to have any chance of selling, but this did not result in lower prices? WHAT? So what causes such significant price drops? Did the sellers come to an agreement and decide to stop being greedy and reduce their profits for the good of the world? out of the goodness of their hearts? Out of the desire to share with others? No, they lowered prices because they wouldn't sell anything because no one would even see their offer. Smaller profits are better than no profit at all or even losses in the case of materials.

[AFadedMemory]

 

6 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

** People will purchase the cheaper prices regardless.

Will does not equal always.

6 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

** You have absolutely NO proof that the higher prices were the basis for laundering credits.

The only person who can know with 100% certainty what someone's intentions were, is the person who preformed the action. I know there are people who sell credits. I know there is a need to make such exchanges look legitimate, I know that the previous GTN could provide such a benefit using any sellable item.

6 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

** Forced purchase to one line item is no guarantee of anything that you are assuming. 

 I made no guarantees. Based on observing how the old and new system worked I hypothesized that laundering credits is now harder (that is a fact) thus less people will be involved in the process. (that is what's up for debate.)

I also hypothesized the lower prices on the GTN (fact) is due to the recent change.(debatable item) reason behind hypothesize:

-Higher prices could sometimes sell when a lower price exists at the same time (old rule)

-Higher prices can not sell when a lower price exists at the same time (New Rule)

Because higher prices can't sell there appears to be a greater urgency to sell at lowest prices then what previously existed.

6 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

** You WANT to force people to buy a certain way ... then new system works that way sooo ... that's the way you like it!

I'm not the one who generated the idea. I'm not the one enforcing the idea. The new system actually upsets me when I'm selling items. However I like buying at lower prices more then any complaint I have.  I also see the potential to combat game damaging behavior.

6 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

The forced cheaper purchase only does NOT force prices down.

This statement is not true. I will acknowledge that there is room for debate on how long the changes last, how much of the drop is influenced by the change, and how many items are effected. (the effect/result will not be the same in every instance of time or varying item being observed. high competitive items will see the greatest effects while low competitive item will see less effect)

If the change caused more damage then they intended it to prevent I will say it's bad. not enough time has passed to see that yet.

It's also important to note that the goal is more complex then stopping credit sellers/scammers. If that was BS's only goal they would disable credit exchanging of any kind. That would most likely kill the game, and if it didn't they would see and increase in security key accounts for cc and the sellers would just trade cartel items for a discounted real world price.( they would probably try to trade other items for money as well) BS would then be forced to either get rid of CC gain on security keys or disable item trading. Again that would most likely kill the game.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[Darkestmonty]

9 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Really? Then why are they still posting to fleet chat? They have changed nothing. That's just wishful thinking on your part, but you are confusing it with reality. 

because the GTN update only affects the GTN?

the GTN update did not stop credit sellers from using the in game mail system, direct trade, or guild banks to transfer credits.

lowest priced items selling first stopped scammers from selling player crafted dyes for 3 billion credits which I find an amazing change.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Darkestmonty