Shae Vizla Launch Updates

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, FrontLineFodder said:

I do not believe any representative of BroadSword or EA should be having those sort of conversations in secrecy. Definitely not on any platform they do not control. If it were to happen, it would be a private thread here on swtor.com.

Totally agree. Doing so in secrecy would not help. Things need to be transparent so we heal & move forward.

1 hour ago, emperorruby said:

still better than BroadSword and ea having those sort of conversations in secrecy with no players i would not complain if na and eu players are invited to

This would only make things worse because it would leak & then the rest of the game’s community would be divided. 

Edited February 20 by TrixxieTriss

[emperorruby]

5 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Totally agree. Doing so in secrecy would not help. Things need to be transparent so we heal & move forward.

This would only make things worse because it would leak & then the rest of the game’s community would be divided. 

either way their communication is terrible and it became a open secret due to a dumpster fire that BroadSword and ea having those sort of conversations in secrecy started idk the devs post on reddit because ftp/preferred players or something  

[Avatarless]

All I know is that if there aren't free transfers for at least current subscribers and/or former APAC players then once my subscription ends at the end of the month this game will go back into hiatus and be as forgotten as it has been for the last 5 years for me.

 This was the only thing that peaked my interest in the game again and had me excited to play, but alas it seems no one who has the power to welcome former players back seems to care about such things. 

 I hope all those who qualify have fun on SV and I do hope the server keeps a healthy population for you all.

 Farewell.

 

[Nommaz]

2 hours ago, Avatarless said:

All I know is that if there aren't free transfers for at least current subscribers and/or former APAC players then once my subscription ends at the end of the month this game will go back into hiatus

And you will not be alone.

[JohnnyGatt]

2 hours ago, Avatarless said:

All I know is that if there aren't free transfers for at least current subscribers and/or former APAC players then once my subscription ends at the end of the month this game will go back into hiatus and be as forgotten as it has been for the last 5 years for me.

 This was the only thing that peaked my interest in the game again and had me excited to play, but alas it seems no one who has the power to welcome former players back seems to care about such things. 

 I hope all those who qualify have fun on SV and I do hope the server keeps a healthy population for you all.

 Farewell.

 

I feel the pain I am finding it difficult to justify spending $60AU to transfer just eight to ten of my characters To make the game playable for me in Aus. I would have more likely stayed if they had just made it a fresh start server with no transfers and stuck with it. As soon as Americans transfer alts with 200 plus million nothing will be affordable for any Non transfers. I guarantee you all the armour kits will go from a maximum of 3 million to 50 to 100 million And I know people are planning to buy everything just to transfer it back to US servers on day one.

I hope they limit how quickly you can transfer off this server or how often you can transfer a character.    

[TrixxieTriss]

24 minutes ago, JohnnyGatt said:

And I know people are planning to buy everything just to transfer it back to US servers on day one.

They might tell you this is their plan. But so far, all we know is transfers will be opened to move on to the APAC server. Not off the APAC server. So I wouldn’t count on that happening just yet.

Hopefully BS have also read the suggestion of resetting all GTN sales for 24 hours once the transfers start. That way players won’t be caught out. 

[emperorruby]

@JackieKo @KeithKanneg what they should have done part 2 by now BroadSword and ea should have decided the maximize offer without it requiring further approval and go to reddit/twitch/discord to have having those sort of conversations live in real time with apac players and na players and eu players

Edited February 20 by emperorruby

[JohnnyGatt]

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

They might tell you this is their plan. But so far, all we know is transfers will be opened to move on to the APAC server. Not off the APAC server. So I wouldn’t count on that happening just yet.

Hopefully BS have also read the suggestion of resetting all GTN sales for 24 hours once the transfers start. That way players won’t be caught out. 

I haven't read anything either way about whether transfers off this server will be available And I definitely do hope what you said is true that the transfers off will be unavailable It would be awesome if they came out and said No transfers off for 12 months or restrictions like Character transfers without inventories. I followed a thread on Discord on one of the many channels I've joined comparing prices and trying to work out just how much and what to buy as soon as they transfer even if transfers off don't open up for three months It's still easy credits. Buy all the gold quality armour sets currently valued at 1 to 3 million each on Shae Vizla Sell them for 25 to 100 million in three months on Satele Shan. To be honest I've never spent more than 2 million on anything so I don't know how many players are actually spending that type of credits and how often these things sell on US servers but comparing the prices it's scary just how broken the economy on US Service is.  From what I can tell everything I've compared between Shae Vizla and Satele Shan There's a 10 to 20 times value difference on the GTN.

[Nommaz]

10 hours ago, JohnnyGatt said:

I would have more likely stayed if they had just made it a fresh start server with no transfers and stuck with it

Then you want a fresh start server NOT an APAC regional server, and this is what caused most of these problems now.
If that's what you want, then go to general and ask for a fresh start server.

This was handled badly from day one, as a regional server transfers should have opened immediately, and they would have retained far more APAC players, than trying to please everyone with one server, when in effect they are pleased no one, and caused splits in the player base and a new server that's literally dying right before their eyes. 

The longer these types of things go on the less and less people play, and the economy is becoming a distant problem compared to the lack of players.
I didn't have any issue with restrictions on credit, and even not allowing transfers off for an extended period of time which would have stopped what you are suggesting, but they need to stem the bleed ASAP regardless of the economy IMO.
And the retrospective conditions need to be looked at properly, and for what they are... unfair.

[JohnnyGatt]

20 minutes ago, Nommaz said:

Then you want a fresh start server NOT an APAC regional server, and this is what caused most of these problems now.
If that's what you want, then go to general and ask for a fresh start server.

Definitely not. My choice would have been to have all my eleven characters transferred over on day one. But if it's a choice between The current mess that is this entire situation with restricted transfers having to pay $60 if you weren't are you subscriber by X date months ago when Australians didn't know server existed And what was originally launched with no transfers I would have happily ground out Everything and started again even though I would have missed my legacy and been a bit annoyed about it all I would have not been as annoyed with this situation as I am now.

[emperorruby]

@JackieKo @KeithKanneg it should a time for celebration for the apac community not lead it to its destruction

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, JohnnyGatt said:

Definitely not. My choice would have been to have all my eleven characters transferred over on day one. But if it's a choice between The current mess that is this entire situation with restricted transfers having to pay $60 if you weren't are you subscriber by X date months ago when Australians didn't know server existed And what was originally launched with no transfers I would have happily ground out Everything and started again even though I would have missed my legacy and been a bit annoyed about it all I would have not been as annoyed with this situation as I am now.

You’d still end up as annoyed as you are or more so because the server would 100% have died if they’d done that.

Most of the current paying APAC players have hardly played on SV because they’re waiting for transfers.

And it’s obvious the majority of the NA EU & fresh start people have gone back to their original servers now the novelty has worn off. 

But as you say, transfers should have been offered the day the server opened. They could have restricted credit transfers for first 90 days if they wanted to check their inflation busting measures. And then allowed full credit transfers after 90 days.

Edited February 20 by TrixxieTriss

[Shayddow]

Quote

And it’s obvious the majority of the NA EU & fresh start people have gone back to their original servers now the novelty has worn off. 

For some, they've gone back for the same reason APAC players were complaining about the U.S. servers. Playing with ping lag hurts in Pvp and Operations. Not so much in vanilla story tho, it's doable. Most of my characters here are still in Vanilla (and I consider Vanilla thru SOR). Once I get beyond that point here, I'll have to see how much I play on this server.  Right now though I'm still having fun here. Even being USA based.

[TrixxieTriss]

4 minutes ago, Shayddow said:

For some, they've gone back for the same reason APAC players were complaining about the U.S. servers. Playing with ping lag hurts in Pvp and Operations. Not so much in vanilla story tho, it's doable. Most of my characters here are still in Vanilla (and I consider Vanilla thru SOR). Once I get beyond that point here, I'll have to see how much I play on this server.  Right now though I'm still having fun here. Even being USA based.

Yeah, I know there are still some playing. Not all went back. But the majority did. 

But as you say, it really isn’t a great gaming experience playing with 200-500ms ping. It’s possible to do story etc, but PvP & highend pve becomes exponentially harder the higher your ping goes. 

As someone whose had to put up with 200+ms ping for nearly 10 years, it’s why I knew most of the NA & EU players would return to their regional servers once the novelty wore off.

It’s also why I was so hardcore for the first 6 weeks trying to get BS to promote & advertise the new server to the APAC region. I know the only way this server becomes really viable is if the majority of its population are APAC located players. 

It’s also why I’ve changed my stance on limiting credit transfers. Because many APAC players won’t transfer without all their stuff. And we need every single APAC player we can get. If that means higher inflation for a bit, then so be it. Because no players = no viable server.

I’d rather have high GTN prices than having to go back to 200+ms ping in PvP because the server fails. 

[emperorruby]

@JackieKo @KeithKanneg the livestream is uncensored except for swearing and very real question and answers dissent opinion are allowed

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, emperorruby said:

@JackieKo @KeithKanneg the livestream is uncensored except for swearing and very real question and answers dissent opinion are allowed

What does this mean?

[emperorruby]

2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

What does this mean?

in my what they should have done part 2 post "by now BroadSword and ea should have decided the maximize offer without it requiring further approval and go to reddit/twitch/discord to have having those sort of conversations live in real time with apac players and na players and eu players"

[Nommaz]

They can do that posting here, a livestream is not required, or its additional costs to them in man hours etc to set it up, here they can post and discuss without either (if they chose to)

[Duck_Cider]

 

18 hours ago, JohnnyGatt said:

It would be awesome if they came out and said No transfers off for 12 months or restrictions like Character transfers without inventories.

  Delaying transfers makes it slower to cash in and come back for another round- the initial profit's still there. Item restrictions for transfers off SV, though... that's brilliant. Coupled with credit restrictions for transfers on, it's almost poetic. It doesn't do anything about people buying cheap stuff to profit from SV-localized inflation, or simply for personal use - like someone going from "I can afford one 200m gold aug" to "Hey I've got a full set now", thanks to transfer magic - but it would be great for dealing with back and forth transfers. I'm gonna steal that.

18 hours ago, JohnnyGatt said:

I followed a thread on Discord on one of the many channels I've joined comparing prices and trying to work out just how much and what to buy as soon as they transfer even if transfers off don't open up for three months It's still easy credits. Buy all the gold quality armour sets currently valued at 1 to 3 million each on Shae Vizla Sell them for 25 to 100 million in three months on Satele Shan. To be honest I've never spent more than 2 million on anything so I don't know how many players are actually spending that type of credits and how often these things sell on US servers but comparing the prices it's scary just how broken the economy on US Service is.  From what I can tell everything I've compared between Shae Vizla and Satele Shan There's a 10 to 20 times value difference on the GTN.

  Out of all the people in this thread arguing for bulk credit transfers, I can't recall one saying "I want credits to buy stuff on the GTN." Every other reason conceivable, but not that. I suspect that discord thread will end up being a better predictor of where the majority of credits wind up than this one. I hated the idea of devs hanging out on discord instead of the official forums in the past, but if it turns out they'd get more accurate information on player intentions there, maybe that's the place for them to be.

 

On 2/18/2024 at 10:27 AM, TrixxieTriss said:

Also, those worried that free transfers for Preferred or FTP would flood the server with excess credits, should realise they can only have 1 million credits at a time on those accounts.

Assuming 15m cap, if a f2p/pref got a free or paid transfer, and transferred a char with 1m active, 14m escrow, they could still access the 14m with a future sub. That's fair enough. Hope the devs haven't forgotten about escrow, though. "Transfer f2p/pref char with 1m active, 4b escrow -> sub -> access 4b on SV" is not intended behaviour.

 

On 2/16/2024 at 10:07 PM, FrontLineFodder said:

You can't transfer off Shae Vizla,

Quote or assumption? The devpost outlined "transfer requirements to Shae Vizla" (their emphasis), and a sub discount on "transfers to the Shae Vizla server". Could be interpreted as "no requirements or discounts for transfers off".

On 2/16/2024 at 10:07 PM, FrontLineFodder said:

so the only people they are selling to are the players on Shae Vizla. There is not a great opportunity there to profit.

I've listed some SV prices in the past. JohnnyGatt posted some today. If you visit SV, compare the prices there to other servers, and still can't see any opportunity for profit, I don't know what else to tell you.

On 2/16/2024 at 10:07 PM, FrontLineFodder said:

you are either afraid of people profiteering off your items on the GTN or you are trying to spread FUD.

People already on SV can do a few things to reduce the impact of inbound inflation, or even profit from it. People who join later, like the future players in the region we should be trying to attract, will have no choice in the matter.

"Bulk imported credits will cause inflation" isn't FUD, it's just truth. Only the amount of inflation is in question. You can say that's not true, if you like, then we can wait and see who was right. Or you can say you don't care - as you've said about the GTN - but that doesn't make the statement any less true.

On 2/16/2024 at 10:07 PM, FrontLineFodder said:

There is no advantage from "mass creating accounts"

Assume people transferring creds for profit will use whichever method provides the lowest cost per transfer.

On 2/16/2024 at 10:07 PM, FrontLineFodder said:

Why restrict transfers at all based on location, I say if a man like general Ortol wants to fight for our server, it would be selfish to deny him that privilege.

I want as many players on Shae Vizla as possible, but my personal desire is that they are there to play on the APAC regional server, not as some kind of mutated / restricted fresh start server.

"Fresh start" means no transfers. "Low-inflation" allows for restricted ones. Unless you're referring to someone who says "no transfers to SV", "fresh start" is a strawman argument at this point. So is the "fresh start vs APAC players" one I see thrown around. There are four main groups on the subject of credit restrictions:

1) People in APAC who want credit restrictions
2) People outside APAC who want credit restrictions
3) People in APAC who want large credit transfers allowed
4) People outside APAC who want large credit transfers allowed

"Fresh start vs APAC players" uses the same "fresh start / low-inflation" mislabeling, and also tries to hide the fact that groups 1 and 4 exist. I'm in group 1, because I don't feel the need to bring my wealth as credits. If bringing it as items means I end up playing on a low-ping server, with a healthier economy, that's better at growing the game within the region, I'd be delighted with that.

 

I also want as many players on SV as possible. Players, not one-time visitors. NA/EU residents aren't coming here for the ping. I don't think they'll be spending a great deal on NiM repair costs. Some people might have come here to play on a low-inflation server, but bulk credit transfers will degrade the very feature that attracted them. Seasons chasers would've already got their CC-farming chars setup last season, and don't need 16 in any case. Profit is the most obvious motive - "bring 240m, jack the GTN" - but you say it's not about that. Fine.

Question: Besides profit, what is the value of 16 transfers to SV for a player with better ping on a current NA/EU server?

 

I think it was a mistake to make those transfers global in the first place. They should have been region-locked. APAC players are more likely to use them as intended, for 16 played chars, not 16 disposable wallets. Even after the devs were pushed to increase their intended 2m cap to 15m, the credit inflow still would have been relatively limited, since only a small proportion of active players are from APAC. Now, we've got a situation where the majority of people qualifying for 16 transfers will be from outside APAC, and the vast majority of them have nothing to do with 16 transfers and 240m creds except raid the GTN.

 

Suggestions:
- Block transfer of f2p/pref char if "active balance + escrow balance > credit cap".
- Disable transfers off SV.
- If transfers off SV enabled in future, include item restrictions for transfers off. (No items? Items with total SV GTN value < 2m? <15m?) (credit to JohnnyGatt)
- Announce now that off-SV transfers, if/when enabled, will have such item restrictions, to deter cross-server trading.
- Define "pre-existing APAC account" as one created before SV launch date, with any spending / location history in APAC before SV launch.
- Maintain "90-day sub -> 16 transfers" system, usable by all regions. (Only because that was published much earlier than the credit cap.)
- Maintain 50% discount on SV transfers for subs from all regions.
- Any positive transfer changes from here - 1 free transfer upfront, extended date to qualify for 16 transfers, free transfer per sub month, whatever - only apply for pre-existing APAC accounts.
- Revert credit cap back to 2m per char for all accounts besides pre-existing APAC ones.

IIRC, everyone in this thread asking for bulk credit transfers has said they're from APAC, so none of them would be affected by the 2m cap, and they'd all qualify to benefit from any "positive transfer changes" in the future. If the devs knew the changes would only affect a small group of players - that is, APAC players, the target population for the server - they might be more generous than they would be for changes that applied worldwide.

Edited February 21 by Duck_Cider

[Duck_Cider]

And now for something completely different.

On 2/17/2024 at 12:37 AM, FrontLineFodder said:

Someone early in this thread suggested a special edition kangaroo mount which I thought would be absolutely awesome (mechanics of the mount could be a bit much though, not like other mounts in the game)

Glad you liked it! We have Forest Tauntaun, Survivalist Tauntaun - I checked. Desert Tauntaun is the final evolution. Nice red coat. Maybe a Skippy clicking noise when mounting. Run animation? We have spacebars. Once hordes of desert tauntauns are hopping around fleet, the devs will never forget APAC's existence again. Let the APACalypse commence.

(Thanks to you and TrixxieTriss for the pictures, btw.)

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Duck_Cider said:

Question: Besides profit, what is the value of 16 transfers to SV for a player with better ping on a current NA/EU server?

There really isn’t any playable value. It’s why most of us APAC players have been pushing for it to only be available to APAC geolocated players. With maybe the east - west boundary to include Hawaiian islands to Pakistan. Anything further than that & the players should always be getting better ping on the US or EU servers.

1 hour ago, Duck_Cider said:

I think it was a mistake to make those transfers global in the first place. They should have been region-locked. APAC players are more likely to use them as intended, for 16 played chars, not 16 disposable wallets.

On this we agree. 
 

1 hour ago, Duck_Cider said:

Block transfer of f2p/pref char if "active balance + escrow balance > credit cap".

I totally disagree with this. I’d actually go completely the other way & even offer preferred & ftp players a few free transfers as well. But with a caveat, they must be located in APAC & their game account must be at least 90 days old. That way people can’t make throw away mule accounts to move stuff for their other accounts. 

I dont really disagree with most of your other suggestion points, except the item restrictions & credit limits. There should never be an item restriction or credit limit to move stuff to APAC. I do think you’re making things overly complicated for the devs to program. 

Lastly, I would like a cheap/free path for APAC subscribers to move ALL their characters over. Especially for people who have paid real money already to open up extra server slots. Each “paid” server slot should get 1 free transfer. (And I do mean paid slots. Not the extra slots some people have from past mergers). There are many APAC players like me that have paid to open up those slots. We should not have to pay to move them back home to APAC. 

Edited February 21 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

55 minutes ago, Duck_Cider said:

And now for something completely different.

Glad you liked it! We have Forest Tauntaun, Survivalist Tauntaun - I checked. Desert Tauntaun is the final evolution. Nice red coat. Maybe a Skippy clicking noise when mounting. Run animation? We have spacebars. Once hordes of desert tauntauns are hopping around fleet, the devs will never forget APAC's existence again. Let the APACalypse commence.

(Thanks to you and TrixxieTriss for the pictures, btw.)

Slightly different topic, but still with in the SV server theme.

I would have loved to see an Aussie inspired companion for an APAC launch promo of the new server. Would have been a great give away to promote the region.

They could be from the SW Legend planet of Borleias or just make a planet up called Roo. It’s not like swtor hasnt used creative licence outside of the SW canon planets before 😉

Image courtesy of the movie Tank Girl & Ice-T

Edited February 21 by TrixxieTriss

[Duck_Cider]

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

With maybe the east - west boundary to include Hawaiian islands to Pakistan. Anything further than that & the players should always be getting better ping on the US or EU servers.

 Agreed. I'm sure Amazon has a lot of ping data for their shiny cloud servers they can give the devs. Figure out which regions are likely to have better gameplay on SV than NA/EU servers, give people there incentives to move to, or at least try, SV. Doesn't really make sense to give people incentives to move to servers with worse ping than they've currently got.

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I totally disagree with this. I’d actually go completely the other way & even offer preferred & ftp players a few free transfers as well. But with a caveat, they must be located in APAC & their game account must be at least 90 days old. That way people can’t make throw away mule accounts to move stuff for their other accounts. 

I'm fine with prefs getting stuff, with similar caveats: "spending history" qualifies them on my list. That point aside, the suggestion wasn't about who gets transfers, but how, specifically, transfers involving escrow are handled. A sub trying to transfer 4b gets told "sorry, 15m limit", they dump the excess into their legacy bank, try again with 15m, transfer goes through. No problem.

On the other hand, what happens if a f2p/pref tries to transfer a char who has 1m active and 4b escrow? That transfer can't be allowed - otherwise, someone can just sub after that transfer, and they've successfully brought 4b to SV, bypassing the credit cap. So it has to be blocked. But the f2p/pref can't put those creds in their legacy bank either, to get below the 15m limit, because of their 1m active credit limit.  They'd either need to sub, to transfer that specific character (dumping excess in legacy), or transfer another character whose total credits (active + escrow) is below the credit cap.

[Nommaz]

3 hours ago, Duck_Cider said:

There are four main groups on the subject of credit restrictions:

1) People in APAC who want credit restrictions
2) People outside APAC who want credit restrictions
3) People in APAC who want large credit transfers allowed
4) People outside APAC who want large credit transfers allowed

You forget 5, People in APAC willing to compromise and say some form of a limit on credits is ok so long as it's not paltry.

I think you will find that's where most APAC WAS, however, it's very fast becoming, inflation is not the main concern anymore, the main concern is bringing players back EVEN if that results in inflation, and we would prefer to see a healthy server with inflation rather than a dead one with none.

BS dropped the ball on this, in trying to appease everyone they actually managed to upset several groups of people, but really APAC players the most (it was after all supposed to be a regional server), and the continued silence and lack of well any apparent care shown to us, we feel unwanted as customers and poorly treated.
 

[TrixxieTriss]

21 minutes ago, Duck_Cider said:

On the other hand, what happens if a f2p/pref tries to transfer a char who has 1m active and 4b escrow? That transfer can't be allowed - otherwise, someone can just sub after that transfer, and they've successfully brought 4b to SV, bypassing the credit cap. So it has to be blocked. But the f2p/pref can't put those creds in their legacy bank either, to get below the 15m limit, because of their 1m active credit limit.  They'd either need to sub, to transfer that specific character (dumping excess in legacy), or transfer another character whose total credits (active + escrow) is below the credit cap.

Ok, I see the issue. Maybe they code the preferred / ftp players transfers so only 1 million can transfer with no escrow. Those remaining escrow credits go into some sort of legacy escrow on their origin server. 

Edited February 21 by TrixxieTriss