Is it Time for a Big New Story Drop?

[DWho]

8 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Ya know ... you could EASILY write that story that would set up a really good GSF aspect of that too!

That's really the point of story drops in MMO-RPGs. The story is the wrapper around all the content. A generic warzone is far less interesting than one tied into a coherent storyline. Once you have established the storyline you are following, the group content suggests itself. It also creates a stronger incentive to draw in people who wouldn't normally do the group content.

Edited November 14, 2023 by DWho

[Jazulfi]

Personally, as a solo player, I'm only really interested in MMO expansions when new story/open world content arrives. I do think good meaty meaningful story adds legs to a game, particularly if there are different characters to interact with and different PoVs to play. SWTOR is a good example of excellent repeatable story content.

However, I think that does need to be supported by repeatable interesting content for the various of playstyles an MMO usually has, and I understand why PvP players and group content people feel a tad unloved at the moment. BUT, if you look at the MMO landscape in general, they seem to be leaning in to casual/solo content for the most part, and I can't help thinking that's because it's where the most players sit?

The truth of the matter is that while recent SWTOR narratives are enjoyable, they are frankly a bit thin. IMVHO, the game needs a big fat expansion, with content for all playstyles, to reboot confidence in the game. That or they need to describe their release cadence in a better way. If we can expect the fairly frequent release of small content patches in the future, rather than say WoW-style expansions, well thats ok but they have to explain that clearly to players to reassure them.

I do wonder whether LotS was supposed to be that kind of thing - small content drops over time - but because there were problems behind the scenes, they forgot to manage player expectations and tell everyone that was the plan. Which looked and felt terrible.

(sorry this is so poorly written - will edit when my brain isn't full of cotton wool)

Edited November 14, 2023 by Jazulfi

[TrixxieTriss]

9 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

There was one time my payments stopped and I became preferred for a couple of weeks I could only access 4. 🤔 

That must have been before the last mergers. 

[TrixxieTriss]

9 hours ago, Stradlin said:

We all have our own bubbles, which distort the picture accordingly. I have 100+ characters. Eight of those were once rolled for story. I've played maybe 100 different characters within last few years, two of them I ever play  for story. Notion I'd ever play any more of them for story feels utterly alien to me. Bothering to somehow drag myself through enough of story content to unlock the player ship is a major undertaking that maybe 30% of my otherwise actice characters have done. Around half of my characters at level cap have never done even the starter planet.  I play them for GSF, conquest,ground pvp, space barbie and RPs.

 

Same for me. More than half my 100 alts haven’t even made it to their respective capital world to start the quest chain that gives them their own ship. Mine were all lvl’d up playing PvP. 

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

Would it be a good idea to look at ties to a distant galaxy as did Ahsoka?  Both the Empire and the Republic might be looking for answers and find it necessary to travel to this place

Would love a story Arc that takes us to Dathomire & the Night Sisters. And if they ever wanted an idea for another Grayside / Darkside force wielding class, a Dathomire Witch would be an interesting choice. 

[JakRoanin]

6 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That must have been before the last mergers. 

No, I'm certain it was Post-Merger, I'm not trying to argue, I just find it odd that I only had access to four. Seriously this isn't my stubbornness. It's the truth. Also, I've got people in my guild make dozens of PC's just to romance one NPC. So, it does happen (more often than people might think) that people role lots of toons for story.

[xxSHOONYxx]

54 minutes ago, Jazulfi said:

BUT, if you look at the MMO landscape in general, they generally seem to be leaning in to casual/solo content for the most part, and I can't help thinking that's because it's where the most players sit?

It's not where the most players sit, is where the money is at.
They cater and change the game they had to manipulate people into spending in their cash shop.
Doesn't matter if it ruins the gameplay experience of their game, they want some quick and low effort money. The mmo people that made their games what they are have been pushed aside for the new type of casual/mobile gamer.

While one says "F to that cash shop, give me content" the other says "yes please here is my wallet. also add this other thing"
One needs high workload for somewhat adequate earnings, while the other is minimum work with maximum earnings.
So what are the devs/suits making the devs do? Minimum effort and investment for maximum rewards.

The new breed of casual mobile gamers ruined gaming because they are exploited. AAA gaming for the past years has been nothing but cash grabs with a few shining spots among masses of turds

Edited November 14, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[Jazulfi]

15 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

It's not where the most players sit, is where the money is at.
They cater and change the game they had to manipulate people into spending in their cash shop.
Doesn't matter if it ruins the gameplay experience of their game, they want some quick and low effort money. The mmo people that made their games what they are have been pushed aside for the new type of casual/mobile gamer.
 

I don't know about that - WoW doesn't really have a cash shop and they are very much releasing casual/solo/open world friendly content at the moment, and catering more to those players in the future, something much of the player base has requested for a long time.

If you look at the other big/biggish mmos - Final Fantasy, ESO, GW2, STO, LotrO - yes they have group content, but they are mostly releasing solo/open world friendly content as a preference these days. I think? But I'm probably a know-nothing.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean they are concentrating specifically on *story* content as such, but I think that's one of the important features which sets SWTOR apart, and I personally think is a good thing.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Jazulfi

[TrixxieTriss]

24 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

The new breed of casual mobile gamers ruined gaming because they are exploited. AAA gaming for the past years has been nothing but cash grabs with a few shining spots among masses of turds

And that’s most of the gaming industry these days, not just MMO’s.

[JakRoanin]

8 minutes ago, Jazulfi said:

I don't know about that - WoW doesn't really have a cash shop and they are very much releasing casual/solo/open world friendly content at the moment, and catering more to those players in the future, something much of the player base has requested for a long time.

If you look at the other big/biggish mmos - Final Fantasy, ESO, GW2, STO, LotrO - yes they have group content, but they are mostly releasing solo/open world friendly content as a preference these days. I think? But I'm probably a know-nothing.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean they are concentrating specifically on *story* content as such, but I think that's one of the important features which sets SWTOR apart, and I personally think is a good thing.

I keep thinking of STO and how they keep the game going, and they do a great job of balancing group and Story!

[TrixxieTriss]

13 minutes ago, Jazulfi said:

I don't know about that - WoW doesn't really have a cash shop and they are very much releasing casual/solo/open world friendly content at the moment, and catering more to those players in the future, something much of the player base has requested for a long time.

If you look at the other big/biggish mmos - Final Fantasy, ESO, GW2, STO, LotrO - yes they have group content, but they are mostly releasing solo/open world friendly content as a preference these days. I think? But I'm probably a know-nothing.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean they are concentrating specifically on *story* content as such, but I think that's one of the important features which sets SWTOR apart, and I personally think is a good thing.

Different business models. Plus they aren’t EA owned. You have to remember that EA pioneered the cash shop in western games through their EA sports titles. They have been pushing them into every other genre ever since they realised suckers would spend $100’s if not $1000’s at a time for digital pixels that often do nothing to improve game play.

Edited November 14, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[xxSHOONYxx]

56 minutes ago, Jazulfi said:

I don't know about that - WoW doesn't really have a cash shop and they are very much releasing casual/solo/open world friendly content at the moment, and catering more to those players in the future, something much of the player base has requested for a long time.

If you look at the other big/biggish mmos - Final Fantasy, ESO, GW2, STO, LotrO - yes they have group content, but they are mostly releasing solo/open world friendly content as a preference these days. I think? But I'm probably a know-nothing.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean they are concentrating specifically on *story* content as such, but I think that's one of the important features which sets SWTOR apart, and I personally think is a good thing.

I went in depth on a reply and i got the "This content must be approved before it can...."
But you are wrong, wow has it and it even sells their own currency. 
Plus all the usuals,  mounts, pet, toys, outfits, character boost, character transfers, faction changes, race changes, name change, guild services and the wow token.
 

Final fantasy has outrageous monetization too, you have to pay monthly for stuff like cargo bay, for each bay. Or having to pay to be able to use more than 2 "companions" for what it would be "crew skills" and making a new character to avoid it doesn't work because there is no "legacy bank". 

The others are not big/biggish, especially not STO with +/- 800 average players, even more depressing than this one. 
Yet all of those have cash shops and microtransactions. 

Probably waiting for review because i wrote wow sells "AU" with their wow token.

Edited November 14, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[JakRoanin]

<sigh> This feels like a debate with Ricardians! Bottom line, we have to see what Broad sword does. I would love to go to Lothal!

[Spikanor]

21 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Bottom line, we have to see what Broad sword does.

there have not share any plans at all what there wane do with the game and thats all the first bad sign you get all when you not know what a new company is planning to do with the game at all.

since so far we have see its only becoming a bioware 2.0 so notting has chance at all so far.

[Lord_Malganus]

4 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

there have not share any plans at all what there wane do with the game and thats all the first bad sign you get all when you not know what a new company is planning to do with the game at all.

 

Sure they have. The planned GTN changes, the selected class nerfs under the guise of "balancing" and pointless 4 ilvl "power ceiling increase" in 7.4 tells us exactly what they plan to do with the game. MM and CM sales.

[Spikanor]

1 minute ago, Lord_Malganus said:

Sure they have. The planned GTN changes, the selected class nerfs under the guise of "balancing" and pointless 4 ilvl "power ceiling increase" in 7.4 tells us exactly what they plan to do with the game. MM and CM sales.

i think most people wane hear other plans from then.

how are there going to threat the community?

are there going to fix the bug problems good?

are there going to listing to the feedback we give and do something with it?

things like that i have not hear.

the update plans for 7.4 is short therm not long therm.

[JakRoanin]

That doesn't mean they won't do more in the future.

[Jazulfi]

20 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You have to buy the expansions & you have to sub. So they have way more money & resources to throw at developing their games than swtor has since it went f2p model.

That’s has always been swtor’s problem & the biggest mistake that EA made. ALL expansions should have been paid expansions & F2P should have been locked to vanilla content unless people paid for the expansion. Subbing $15 for 1 month to get an expansion is minuscule when you compare what WoW & FFXiV have to pay. 

SWTOR can never have the same amount of content as either of those games with such a terrible business model. And they can’t do it without the staff either. Comparing them is ridiculous. 

 

I've been meaning to quote and agree with this since yesterday. I think it's barmy that they didn't/don't charge for expansions. ESO has the Sub/B2P model but you STILL have to buy every chapter as they are released. Past chapters then get rolled into the next Chapter when it's released. I'm *pretty* sure you have to buy the base game too.

It's interesting to me that SWTOR and ESO arrived at roughly the same time in terms of being in the wake of WoW. Both made mistakes at the beginning and both went with B/F2P quite quickly after they launched. I assume this was because they panicked at the numbers and retention by comparison to WoW, and it freaked them out. But mmos were in such unknown waters then, I don't think people realised just how unusual WoW would prove be.

ESO had to claw it's way back from it's original model - the horrible ouroboros of content and open world that tried to encourage group play. They had to implement One Tamriel, and tone down the difficulty (too much so I think most people would admit?) But they still had to claw their way back. They also went all in with committing to a big yearly chapter release, with a new zone, lots of story and voice acting and new things to do. How *good* those stories are is open to debate though! But again, they did have a massive hill to climb to get their numbers back, and as far as I can tell, they are doing pretty well now? However, I'm pretty sure the pvp people aren't very happy with their lot.

I'm guessing SWTOR didn't have the foresight/confidence/money to do all that? I stopped playing just before KotET, and for a big gap, mainly because open world content was just a bit too difficult (and tiresome - lots of mob CCing all over the place) to play solo, and I got cheesed off. I didn't really come back for long periods until recently, but I've thoroughly enjoyed my last 3 months of the game, and I'm looking forward to the next bit (crosses fingers). My point being, SWTOR *could* start charging for expansions, it does work, but they'd have to release something substantial and (I think) commit to the game so players have reassurance that it's worth their time and attention.

P.S. At this point, I'm lighting a memorial candle for The Secret World, the demise of which still breaks my heart. Another game with so much potential, poorly treated and released in unfortunate circumstances. I loved you TSW, including your original fiendish combat. *sniffles*

Edited November 14, 2023 by Jazulfi

[MishaCantu]

I'm going to address the elephant in the room and maybe it's already been addressed but I didn't read all 6 pages of posts.

Several of my friends have quit because there's no longer any interaction with certain companions. And don't say it's a girly thing because plenty of dudes were on the forums after KOTFE launched wondering where Jaesa or Kira or Vette were.  Except for a few nonsense flirts that don't mean anything, we get very little of that interaction anymore. Heck, for most of them we don't even get a letter. Sorry, but that can't be that difficult to put into the game, but what few we get we appreciate.

Secondly it's no longer our character's story. It belongs to Shae and Sa'har Kateen and Malgus. We are just devices to move the story along, such as it is. 

Yes, PVP and OPS are important. Maybe they keep the game going. I don't know. Maybe all the UI changes and such are preparation for releasing on console eventually. Again, I don't know. Seasons, conquest, and gear are all a grind, but every MMO has a grind of some sort. Is it enough to keep us occupied? I have no idea.

To be honest the players themselves have caused their share of troubles. They complained about the release schedule of KOTFE so it got changed. They complained that ops were too easy and then complained when they were made harder. There were complaints about premades in ranked PVP. So it went away. And no MMO ever has been able to balance PVP and PVE. The nerfs and boosts don't equate.

So, that's my 2 cents. Such as it is. I stay subbed for now in hopes that the game will survive. I don't indulge in cartel market stuff except for companion boosts to 50. There's really nothing I care to buy.

On the side note of buying. If they made replayable content with said certain companions, I might get off some of those cartel coins I've stacked up. I came for the lightsabers and stayed for the story and a touch of romance. And I know damned well I'm not the only one.

Edited December 5, 2023 by MishaCantu

[JakRoanin]

4 minutes ago, MishaCantu said:

I'm going to address the elephant in the room and maybe it's already been addressed but I didn't read all 6 pages of posts.

Several of my friends have quit because there's no longer any interaction with certain companions. And don't say it's a girly thing because plenty of dudes were on the forums after KOTFE launched wondering where Jaesa or Kira or Vette were.  Except for a few nonsense flirts that don't mean anything, we get very little of that interaction anymore. Heck, for most of them we don't even get a letter. Sorry, but that can't be that difficult to put into the game, but what few we get we appreciate.

Secondly it's no longer our character's story. It belongs to Shae and Sa'har Kateen and Malgus. We are just devices to move the story along, such as it is. 

Yes, PVP and OPS are important. Maybe they keep the game going. I don't know. Maybe all the UI changes and such are preparation for releasing on console eventually. Again, I don't know. Seasons, conquest, and gear are all a grind, but every MMO has a grind of some sort. Is it enough to keep us occupied? I have no idea.

To be honest the players themselves have caused their share of troubles. They complained about the release schedule of KOTFE so it got changed. They complained that ops were too easy and then complained when they were made harder. There were complaints about premades in ranked PVP. So it went away. And no MMO ever has been able to balance PVP and PVE. The nerfs and boosts don't equate.

So, that's my 2 cents. Such as it is. I stay subbed for now in hopes that the game will survive. I don't indulge in cartel market stuff except for companion boosts to 50. There's really nothing I care to buy.

On the side note of buying. If they made replayable content with said certain companions, I might get off some of those cartel coins I've stacked up. I came for the lightsabers and stayed for the romance. And I know damned well I'm not the only one.

Thank you! Brava, and Amen! 

[OlBuzzard]

6 hours ago, Jazulfi said:

I've been meaning to quote and agree with this since yesterday. I think it's barmy that they didn't/don't charge for expansions. ESO has the Sub/B2P model but you STILL have to buy every chapter as they are released. Past chapters then get rolled into the next Chapter when it's released. I'm *pretty* sure you have to buy the base game too.

It's interesting to me that SWTOR and ESO arrived at roughly the same time in terms of being in the wake of WoW. Both made mistakes at the beginning and both went with B/F2P quite quickly after they launched. I assume this was because they panicked at the numbers and retention by comparison to WoW, and it freaked them out. But mmos were in such unknown waters then, I don't think people realised just how unusual WoW would prove be.

ESO had to claw it's way back from it's original model - the horrible ouroboros of content and open world that tried to encourage group play. They had to implement One Tamriel, and tone down the difficulty (too much so I think most people would admit?) But they still had to claw their way back. They also went all in with committing to a big yearly chapter release, with a new zone, lots of story and voice acting and new things to do. How *good* those stories are is open to debate though! But again, they did have a massive hill to climb to get their numbers back, and as far as I can tell, they are doing pretty well now? However, I'm pretty sure the pvp people aren't very happy with their lot.

I'm guessing SWTOR didn't have the foresight/confidence/money to do all that? I stopped playing just before KotET, and for a big gap, mainly because open world content was just a bit too difficult (and tiresome - lots of mob CCing all over the place) to play solo, and I got cheesed off. I didn't really come back for long periods until recently, but I've thoroughly enjoyed my last 3 months of the game, and I'm looking forward to the next bit (crosses fingers). My point being, SWTOR *could* start charging for expansions, it does work, but they'd have to release something substantial and (I think) commit to the game so players have reassurance that it's worth their time and attention.

 

6 hours ago, MishaCantu said:

I'm going to address the elephant in the room and maybe it's already been addressed but I didn't read all 6 pages of posts.

Several of my friends have quit because there's no longer any interaction with certain companions. And don't say it's a girly thing because plenty of dudes were on the forums after KOTFE launched wondering where Jaesa or Kira or Vette were.  Except for a few nonsense flirts that don't mean anything, we get very little of that interaction anymore. Heck, for most of them we don't even get a letter. Sorry, but that can't be that difficult to put into the game, but what few we get we appreciate.

Secondly it's no longer our character's story. It belongs to Shae and Sa'har Kateen and Malgus. We are just devices to move the story along, such as it is. 

Yes, PVP and OPS are important. Maybe they keep the game going. I don't know. Maybe all the UI changes and such are preparation for releasing on console eventually. Again, I don't know. Seasons, conquest, and gear are all a grind, but every MMO has a grind of some sort. Is it enough to keep us occupied? I have no idea.

To be honest the players themselves have caused their share of troubles. They complained about the release schedule of KOTFE so it got changed. They complained that ops were too easy and then complained when they were made harder. There were complaints about premades in ranked PVP. So it went away. And no MMO ever has been able to balance PVP and PVE. The nerfs and boosts don't equate.

So, that's my 2 cents. Such as it is. I stay subbed for now in hopes that the game will survive. I don't indulge in cartel market stuff except for companion boosts to 50. There's really nothing I care to buy.

On the side note of buying. If they made replayable content with said certain companions, I might get off some of those cartel coins I've stacked up. I came for the lightsabers and stayed for the romance. And I know damned well I'm not the only one.

Exactly what has been said repeatedly over the last few months!!  As for the money made by SWTOR... that went elsewhere (in any number of ways/expenditures/ventures/pockets ...take your pick.  IN short SWTOR was robbed of the opportunity for growth.  IMO this is one of several reasons for the animosity that still exists today.

There is (was) at one point in time the genuine opportunity to revive the game, invest and create a really nice adventure within the Star Wars genre in the fashion of an MMO.  It's highly unlikely this will happen.

That being said:  I still give a tip of the hat to OP for his desire to open up a thread looking at the foundation of story driven MMO ... the actual story.

BTW... it should be noted that I completely agree 100% with BOTH of these posts.  I especially like the part about this no longer being our story (we're now disconnected somewhat and that actually made it easier to move on to something else). 

As it now stands there is very little left to do with SWTOR ... except to turn out the lights (maybe).  And I find that prospective future somewhat disappointing and frustrating.

 

EDIT:  PLEASE NOTE that when I made the statement about being easier to move on to something else I was actually referring to being easier to move on to another GAME (since we are less connected to the story line in SWTOR.)

Edited November 15, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[JakRoanin]

I disagree that the only thing left to do is turn out the lights. Saying things like that isn't helpful, at all. What is important is that they haven't given up on the game.

[OlBuzzard]

3 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

I disagree that the only thing left to do is turn out the lights. Saying things like that isn't helpful, at all. What is important is that they haven't given up on the game.

There was a time I would have said the same thing.  Matters have changed now.  I just don't feel like being burned over and over and OVER again in the same way we have for the past 12 to 18 months (if not longer).  Sooo many people have been WAY more than patient.  

I'm sorry ... but SWTOR needs an old fashion shot in the arm in order to avoid what appears to be nothing more than life support.

BTW.... no reflection on your desire to see things happen for the better.  If had ZERO hope at all .. I would no longer be posting.  In fact I think if it were possible to check you find a gap of almost 3 weeks (perhaps more) where I went silent.  Right now as it stands it won't take much of a push for me to just simply walk away.

This is a game.  It's NOT my life.  I do really like the things we use to do.  It was fun.  It was very interesting.  I use to enjoy developing characters and interacting with my companions.  I use to anticipate the next part of the story. 

USE TO!  ( I think that's all I need to say now).

BTW...  good luck!

[JakRoanin]

This game isn't my life either, but I truly believe that to keep the game going its more productive to express what you will pay for, rather than what you won't.

[Nee-Elder]

4 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

 What is important is that they haven't given up on the game.

For all intents & purposes,  "they" ( EA ) already gave up a long time ago in a Dev cycle far far away ( 3.0 era maybe? )

Heck maybe even once the F2P + CM  reskins x infinity  game model went into effect.   And no doubt they definitely gave up on GSF.

What's  strange though, imo , is how ESO can have their own version of  CM ( aka Crown Store )  but somehow it doesn't  feel as tacky nor as greedy there.  Maybe cuz they're still able to provide very significant YEAR LONG theme-driven  content, expansions, & updates quite constistantly too.  ( including endgame , like the new 'Endless Dungeon' for example --Plus all the modding they allow)

My guess is that BioWare  is always suffocated by EA limitation$ who is also always restricted by Disney/LucasArts  rules.

Consquently, the STAR WARS  ip  becomes both a blessing and a curse.

Therefore, SWTOR remains in this "maintenance mode"  lame limbo, whereby the playerbase  continues to erode with each perplexing change-in-design choice followed by longggg stale lulls between each underwhelming short story update.

'Seasons'  was sorta the best band-aid  hamster-wheel-attention-holder they could come up with....for certain types of players.

The rest of us remain, well, restless.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: prove me wrong, Broadsword....please!